[VS] Sakura (Icelerate) VS Kakuzu (Zexion)

[Lord Tywin]

Gian GG

 

[Zexion~]

Hmmmmm what happened?

 

[Icelerate]

Hmmmmm what happened?

Okay I'll finish by Friday.

 

[Prince of Destruction]

Zexiest man alive stomps.

 

[BLAZE]

Zexiest man alive stomps.

RJ ....

 

[Prince of Destruction]

RJ ....

Pardon? I know no RJ.

 

[Icelerate]

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Kakuzu

I'm not going to really bother arguing your speed feats as they aren't very relevant, and as usual you're over complicating them to try and give them relavance any normal judge should see that.

Actually I explained why they are relevant. In feat #1, I demonstrated how Sakura has the speed to outrun her own shockwave and outright evade it so she does the same to Kakuzu's ninjutsu. Feat #2 is relevant because it shows Sakura can perform a variety of tasks before a nigh instantaneously closing portal closes thus giving her great reaction capability.

However I do have some things to point out:

-Her following the Juubi is a pointless feat as her speed isn't measured at all, merely the distance she can cover with a jump, along with the fact that as you can see the juubi actually traveled a decent distance before she jumped, and even then she never fully caught up with it. The distance/time ratio (speed) is hardly noteworthy.

Are you claiming the momentum of an object sent flying by Sakura is hardly noteworthy? If it wasn't noteworthy, how was Sakura able to

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and

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? Early Shippuden Sakura,

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than

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, was

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. Sasori couldn't even use his magnetism ability to cancel its momentum and his manipulation of

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.

I know she didn't fully catch up with it but regardless of that fact she:
1. leaped after punching the clone so the clone had a head start.
2. propelled herself at a vertical height unlike the clone which means the total distance she traveled is superior.
3. Didn't use Byakogou to enhance her shunshin.

Furthermore, a Kyuubi roar from KN3 Naruto sent

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from

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. However, base WA Sakura travels multiple times faster based on feat #1 so now Sakura is multiple times fast enough to blitz her early part two self from 10 m which means Kakuzu won't be able to avoid a punch from Sakura as long as she's within 10 m of him because early Shippuden Sakura wasn't too far behind base Naruto clone who isn't too far behind Kakuzu.

Then there is the fact that it took longer for 3rd Raikage to catch up to the target he punched (

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)(

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)(

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) compared to Sakura punching her own target. 3rd Raikage probably didn't use shunshin though so I'm not claiming Sakura's shunshin>3rd Raikage's. Just saying 3rd Raikage's impressive running speed is inferior to base Sakura's shunshin. Her Byakogou enhanced shunshin is featless but Sakura obviously won't supercharge her shunshin to be too fast or else she won't be able to react to her own speed anymore. Luckily for her, Kakuzu's reactions are inferior to her own so she won't have to overdo a byakogou enhanced shunshin to the extent that she can't react to her own movement.

-Her "second feat" is also hardly relevant, honestly it could even be more of a lack of speed feat. The pouring of acid is hardly a fast occurance when compared to techniques used throughout the manga and even that specific battle. The fact that she was still unable to completely avoid harm despite being at her fastest (seal released) is almost embaressing.

The acid poured out of the portal before it could shrink. We know that once kamui portals stop being maintained by the kamui user, they start disappearing nigh instantly. Sakura wasn't anywhere near her fastest unless you think that she's at her fastest right after transferring a large amount of chakra to Obito the moment before dodging. Not to mention you didn't counter the other reasons why it was an impressive reaction feat which includes the facts that:

1. Had to save another person. Doesn't have to do that in this battle.
2. Was pointblank.
3. Was unexpected.
4. Had just used up a large amount of chakra.

Going by your idiotic logic,

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or

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makes their speed embarrassing because neither attack is fast nor has a wide AoE.

Nice stretch, however the power rise mentioned has only been visibly seen in terms of regeneration and strength, you can state it increases speed all you want however the manga says otherwise, until you can show me an instance of increase in speed whether it be with Tsunade or Sakura this point is moot. It increases regeneration allowing her to tank attacks, hence why the increase in speed is miniscule at best due to it being pointless.

Manga never said my claim is incorrect. Why would an increase in speed ever be pointless? Byakugou power rise has allowed ninjutsu boosts, which includes shunshin no jutsu, so you're wrong like always. The databook entry states, "Wounds completely recover, while at the same time ones own power rises". Clearly the power rising is different from regeneration because being able to regenerate doesn't make one more powerful in this context or else the sentence wouldn't have referred to power rising as different from the recovery of wounds. Physical strength rising would also increase speed due to additional strength in the legs.

Chakra is always flowing through the brain, again feats of increased reactions are needed not your conjecture. Either way everything Sakura has shown is un-impressive and no feats of reactions or even speed were present in your post.

Chakra always flowing through the brain isn't the same as when a much larger amount of chakra is flowing through the brain. Anyway Byakugou has increased reaction speed in Tsunade.

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. They both strike at the same time which requires a mental reaction to initiate hence they both have a similar reaction time. Byakugou Tsunade, however,

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. This means Byakugou Tsunade>base Tsunade = base Ay in reaction speed.

Even just releasing the Yin seal boosted Tsunade's combat capability in part one. She went from not being able to land a hit on Kabuto from being able to

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and later on

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. Prior to releasing her seal, she wasn't able to land a hit on Kabuto until he closed his eyes.

Now I'll give you feat #3. You really can't ignore this one no matter how you try to write it off.

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: Sakura dodged the initial strike of Kaguya's chakra arm, which was hyped to be "very fast" by RSM Naruto himself. The

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. Clearly Kaguya's chakra arms>>Juubi in terms of speed so Sakura would be able to move a much larger distance before getting overwhelmed if put in the same situation as BM Naruto. Now I'm not saying that Sakura has better reactions than BM Naruto because obviously Naruto is a much larger target to tag who didn't expect the Juubi to be fast whereas Sakura saw the speed of the chakra arms when used against Naruto and Sasuke.

This statement is utterly disproven as nothing you've posted even resembles a "reaction" feat. Her getting hit by acid again tarnishes her reactions at most. Good luck finding any as well, I could list all the times she's been blitzed before the war-arc however it would be pointless. Even in her prime she was the damsel who needed to be saved

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All you've proven is that she can jump a good distance. Her reactions are still piss-poor and her movement speed in general continues to be unimpressive.

---

I've already debunked all these claims. Bringing feats before the war arc is irrelevant because Sakura was continuously storing chakra in her seal (

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) so she was obviously much worse in pretty much all her physical attributes. Not to mention bringing up old feats to debunk new ones is extremely fallacious. I might as well say that Hiruzen>>Hashirama based on what they did in part one. Not to mention you have yet to show that Kakuzu's jutsus are fast in any way, shape or form. Classic pot calling the kettle black.

Sakura needing to get saved against Kaguya's chakra arm was because she couldn't outrun it. However not being able to out speed the chakra arm only means Sakura's speed isn't Rikudo level but that doesn't mean she isn't fast in comparison to the likes of Kakuzu and other early Shippuden characters.

Kakuzu doesn't really need speed in this fight however thanks for spinning Kakuzu's feats in a negative manor, arrogant as always I see.

He needs speed if he wants to tag Sakura in CQC or Sakura outmaneuvers him and fights Kakuzu at whatever range she desires.

This statement should be obviously flawed due to the fact one it wasn't point blank range :lol and two that Kakuzu was able to blitz a much faster Kakashi twice. Cast aside the first one all you want (however in both cases neither Shikamaru nor Kakashi knew of Kakuzu's presence) However the second is perfectly valid, you say its not due to the aerial position Kakashi was in, yet in that very same scenario he was able to escape the rapid burst of Atsugai

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Due to being dodged its only instance its speed isn't extreme however its still a quickly executed attack. The fact that Kakuzu was able to actually land an attack on Kakashi means that his speed must be faster than that of Atsugai. Being aerial also has nothing to with Kakshi not even being able to slice the threads with Raikiri yet alone activate it.

Kakuzu was right behind Shikamaru when Shika reacted so how exactly is it not point blank range? In the first instance, Kakashi was running forward, right into Kakuzu, so Kakashi not being able to react isn't a good feat for Kakuzu. Though if you do think it's a good feat, then

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is much much better.

As for Kakuzu's speed being above Atsugai, well so much for the speed of Kakuzu's techniques lol, this makes it easier for Sakura to dodge them. Though I disagree with your claim because by the time Atsugai was cast, we don't know whether Kakashi was on the ground or not. He should have been otherwise he probably used Hidan's scythe to get a footing. It's physically impossible for Kakashi to dodge when he has no footing. Same goes for Kakuzu blitzing Kakashi right after spitting out suiton suijinheki. Furthermore, Kakashi was not aware of Kakuzu's new position as Kakuzu was able to conceal his movements through the sound and visual distraction that came from the clash between their jutsu.

Activating Raikiri would have been pointless as Raikiri's AoE would do nothing to prevent Kakashi from getting ensnared.

As for the third blitz of Kakashi it wasn't really movement speed however you trying to discredit it because Ino offered healing to Kakashi is laughable, she was refering to the entry wounds left by the threads which should in no way hinder speed it at all. Nevermind the fact that he was still able to utilize the sharingan and raikiri to rescue Naruto later on

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He was perfectly fit enough to avoid Kakuzu's attack he simply could not.

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so yes they hampered Kakashi a lot. As for rescuing Naruto, the key word that refutes this is that it was done "later on" just like you mentioned and it doesn't showcase Kakashi's speed because the act of rescuing a stationary target doesn't highlight fast movement.

Lolol Why are you assuming Sakura has above Kakashi reactions when once again you've proven nothing of the sort with the meager two feats you were able to find. Part 2 Kakashi who was on par with Hebi Sasuke in terms of speed is still faster than prime Sakura.

Again, pot calling the kettle black, you're also assuming Kakashi is faster than Sakura without any proof on your part. Then once again, without proof, you claim the Kakashi that fought Kakuzu and Hidan was on par with Hebi Sasuke in terms of speed which I'll show to be false.

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.

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and

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. Kakazu couldn't even avoid Izumo and Kotetsu (

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) so he's slower than Deidara.

When it comes to raw speed, covering distance from point A to point B in a small amount of time, Sakura has the better feat via feat #1.

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. I'm pretty sure that C2 missiles don't travel as fast as something sent flying by Sakura. Haven't seen these two being able to match the speed of an object punched by Sakura.

If anything, Sakura>Hebi Sasuke>Kakashi>Deidara>Kakuzu when it comes to raw speed.

Please tell me of an occurance where Sakura has ever tagged a shinobi thanks to her speed? It never has, she's managed to strike the Juubi fodder clones the entire K11 was able to strike. She's never touching Kakuzu here especially not with an attack she'd have to wind back or charge to increase its strength. Meanwhile while her evasion is considerable she has neither the reactions nor shunsin to avoid Kakuzu's wide scale jutsu, nor the quick precise threads.

She tagged Ino thanks to her speed. Her being able to strike Juubi fodder clones doesn't mean those are the fastest opponents she can strike. The entire K11 being able to strike them doesn't mean they are all at the same level in speed. Winding back and charging a punch takes barely any time considering Sakura's able to punch both shins one after the other (

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). She did manage to catch the father Shin by surprise but Shin Jr. was her next target and he couldn't escape her which goes to show that her charging her punch and striking doesn't take much time at all. Furthermore, Sakura was able to reel back and strike Kaguya (

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) before she could fly out of range. These instances were in base and Byakogou Sakura has even greater striking speed.

Kakuzu's ninjutsu isn't so fast that Sakura can't react to it considering

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. Moreover, Kakashi was able to

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. There is no Hidan here so Sakura would dodge with less difficulty. Kakuzu's raiton gian was slower than Kakashi considering Kakashi intercepted it from a longer distance away than the distance between the raiton mask and Chouji/Shikamaru. Since Kakashi doesn't travel anywhere near fast enough to blitz Sakura, Sakura will have no difficulty sidestepping raiton gian as well.

As for Kakuzu's threads, too bad Sakura throws a punch faster than Kakuzu can target her with his threads. If Sakura is too far away to blitz Kakuzu (10 m or more), she'll be far enough to react to Kakuzu's incoming threads and move out of the way.

If it were this easy why would Naruto not have done so when utilizing Katsuyu? Its diffiuclt to be maneurvering around the battlefield with two slugs perched on your shoulder, thinking they would be able to stay in place is naive. However it doesn't really matter while an inventive tactic her knowing whats coming doesn't change the fact that she simply can't avoid it. As well as the force from explosive jutsu throwing them off the shoulders, even if she's not struck by the attack directly.

Spoiler

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Maybe because SM Naruto is a sensor and doesn't need to? Also since Katsuyu is Sakura's summon, it stands to reason she'll use it more inventively than Naruto. Already explained how Sakura easily dodges Kakuzu's elemental attacks. The two Katsuyu clones will stick onto Sakura's shoulders. When Katsuyu sticks onto something, it becomes very difficult to simply blow off like you're suggesting considering how

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. BTW slugs

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(control f: "slip" for evidence).

It wasn't ten-tens attack that killed the mask first of all, if you're still ignorant to what really destroyed the mask (Asuma's fuuton) I suggest you re-read. Also no we can't compare Asuma's jutsu to Sakura's shockwaves as Asuma's jutsu was the dust cloud techinque, which uses dust particles to tear up whats caught in its radius (couldn't find the databook page) that as well as the elemental advantage over the mask was what destroyed the mask. Sakura's charged punch may be able to create a shockwave long enough to disrupt the AERIAL masks, which can glide for a good period of time. However she'd never get the chance to, should she ever jump up to land back down Kakuzu would grab her with the threads like he did against a much faster Kakashi, or if for some reason he can't the masks would disrupt her attack with Jutsu. She can tank them sure, (gian or wind + fire combo could cause some damage) but they all contain enough force to push her away from landing the punch.

It was in fact Tenten that killed the mask.

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. The translation is wrong and

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. Though Asuma killing the mask supports my point. Asuma using dust particles doesn't change the fact that Sakura's attack is far stronger and also consists of dust particles. Unless you think Asuma's fuuton could plow through

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whereas

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and

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.

Elemental advantage doesn't make the victim more resistant to damage than other attacks. Elemental advantage is useful for overpowering other elemental attacks but the user isn't effected by advantages/disadvantages.

Who said anything about Sakura jumping up like she did against the Juubi clones?

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. She jumped up in order to bypass the Juubi clones on the ground. Even if she does do so,

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whereas Sakura would have plenty of momentum, so how exactly is Kakuzu being able to grab a stationary Kakashi mean being able to grab a fast moving Sakura? How was a stationary Kakashi so much faster than a fast moving Sakura? You make no sense.

Kishi is that you behind the Icelerate mantle? Are you able to perfectly draw the exact height and size needed to block the massive attacks of Kakuzu? A rock larger than the Bijuu sized dead trees that Kakuzu's fuuton engulfed? Gian would rip right through the boulder as its description states.

Spoiler

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Which could provide an opening for Kakuzu to take advantage of the healing/injured (if it took out an organ could she recover?) Sakura and remove the heart for the finishing blow.

This rupture of rock (80 m) is clearly taller than these trees (30 m) (

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)(

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)(

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). Furthermore, the size of Kakuzu's jutsus don't matter when we are talking about a small target such as Sakura. The rupture of rock is far thicker than the trees Kakuzu destroyed. Furthermore, rock is more durable than hollow dead trees so it will obviously block Kakuzu's katon+fuuton attacks. Raiton gian can split through a boulder but that doesn't mean it can go through any amount of rock no matter how thick that rock is. A boulder can be as large as

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whereas the rupture of rock that came up after Sakura punched the ground was far larger than a mere boulder.

I won't argue this, however fuuton crushes organs and the internal foundation of the body, so perhaps it would be a struggle to recover. Gian would simply directly destroy her organs so much so that she couldnt heal due to the width of the bolt being larger than that of a human.

I agree with you on gian. Atsugai doesn't have the feat of crushing the internal foundation of a body or else Hidan would have been left incapacitated and he never had a struggle to recover from his nonexistent wounds. Sakura had no trouble recovering from getting smacked by Rikudo Madara's limbo (

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).

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was strong enough to send bijuu flying (

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)(

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) so that's clearly a stronger attack than Kakuzu's fuuton.

Thanks for giving your own maximum range, when in fact his entire body is made completely from millions of threads with no set range given he could extend them logically as far as he'd like.

I just used my own observations to come to a conclusion. On the other hand you are using your own biased speculative logic. Kakuzu uses chakra to manipulate those threads so longer threads will require more chakra to manipulate. There is a limit to how much chakra Kakuzu can put in his threads so he obviously can't extend them as far as he wants. If Kakuzu could have extended his threads from much further, he wouldn't have

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.

Not to mention they've clearly traveled farther distances on multiple occasions Kakashi was elevated to more than five meters when he was caught by Kakuzu

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That looks like a bit above 5 meters to me but my point still stands.

As well as them traveling a massive distance and providing him with the ability to go "Long Range" only which im pretty sure the standard for long range is roughly 15 meters is it not? If not more.

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Yes him having them out like that makes the process quicker and provides him with obvious advantageous however you have no reason to argue that he couldn't send threads that distance in his normal state as well.

I forgot about his

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, that version does seem to have tripled both the quantity of threads and their length as well so I agree that Kakuzu can attack Sakura from 15 m away, just outside Sakura's blitz range. However, Kakuzu uses up more chakra in this mode than his previous one making it easier for Sakura to outlast him.

The base clone was able to avoid it because it hid behind the other one....obviously hence why it was decimated the next panel over :lol



Substitution.... there is a reason why it was hardly ever used after part one, it needs to be pre-meditated Sakura won't be able to predict Kakuzu's attacks well enough to plan a substitution jutsu, you can't simply switch places with whatever you choose at any time. That would be the jutsu Sasuke needed Rinnegan + Sharingan + Sage power to initiate :lol

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Also if this did magically happen, unlike clones Sakura can't continue to move when Kakuzu's focus is directed elsewhere the minute she substitutes is the minute he focuses on Sakura once more. Not to mention Kakashi someone who also demonstrated a mastery of substitution was never able to utilize it once when caught by the threads, yet Sakura could?

Okay, I'll agree.

However, now I'll instead use Katsuyu as a diversion for Sakura to close the distance. Once Sakura summons Katsuyu, she runs to the other side of Kakuzu. Now Kakuzu can either focus on Katsuyu or Sakura but not both as one will always be in his blind spot. If he focuses on Sakura, Katsuyu acid melts him but if he focuses on Katsuyu, Sakura closes the distance. In other words, a

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.

Sakura is a straight forward fighter, she needs to close down the distance in order to deal damage to Kakuzu meanwhile within that time Kakuzu can utilize his elemental jutsu which Sakura will not be able to avoid as cleanly as Kakashi, to put her off guard and remove her heart within seconds

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The deepness of the threads despite the miniscule time elapsed is impresive.

@bold, why not? As a matter of fact, without having to worry about Hidan, team 10 and chakra exhaustion, she'll do an even better job at avoiding those attacks. When she does that, she has moved a good amount of distance away from Kakuzu. By the time he comes back to remove her heart, she should be on guard again.

Keep in mind Kakuzu does not need to be close to Sakura in order for this process to be completed, he usually tries to remove the heart from a close distance due to his need for the heart to still be beating when transfered to his body, when he's simply trying to remove a heart to kill an opponenet he can do so with his long range threads.

I agree with this except for the fact that to capture and restrain Sakura, he does need to be close or else his threads are easily dodged. If Kakuzu is close enough to blitz Sakura with his threads, that means Sakura is close enough to blitz Kakuzu considering her speed and reactions surpass Kakuzu's.

:lol These were your impressive points that were supposed to scare me? First of all that only applies if she strikes his original heart, which based on what has been presented so far will most likely never happen. Secondly Kakuzu always keeps an earth heart within his body meaning that if she did manage to deal a fatal blow, he'd be able to recover in seconds if even that as the heart is already within his body, plus that means is she did try to take advantage of this Domu would still be in play, as its a jutsu that affects the body of Kakuzu directly instead of using the mask as a medium which is why the raiton heart became useless after it was taken in by Kakuzu. After that Kakuzu would know what Sakura will try to do and prevent it, instead of waking up blindly he'd spring into attack directly, putting herself so close to Kakuzu's threads could mean a simple heart removal would be in palce, from when she's not expecting an attack as well.

Raiton mask becoming useless after Kakuzu took it in his body doesn't explain how doton domu will still be in play after he gets "killed". Nevertheless, I'll explain how she breaks through domu later on. She'll expect Kakuzu to revive himself so instead she can summon Katsuyu right on top of Kakuzu, crushing him or forcing him to keep doton domu up which prevents him from moving.

Alas Doton Domu is a useful application here, and i'll give you the basics as to why;

-The human skin has flexible tendancies to increase its durability from brunt force attacks such as punches and what have you.

-Due to Kakuzu having a single organ worth damaging along with it being surrounded by threads that allow force to flow freely through the body and exiting without causing much harm. Sakura's punch would need to physically breach Kakuzu in order to deal real damage.

However Sakura's punch can't breach a normal humans skin, even when CES is involved (simple physics, not how a punch works) so if Domu is simply the properties of skin along with the added hardness and durability what makes you think it would be broken by Sakura? Its elasticity remains as well as its flexability. It also has a good deal of force absorbption shown when he tanked a spikey human boulder from directly on top of his head.

First of all you're comparing Sakura's punch to a regular punch. A strong enough punch can make one bleed and if blood pours out, it means the skin has been breached as internal bleeding doesn't appear outside the body. I can't find the scan where Tsunade punched Jiraiya but I'm pretty sure he was bleeding. Kakuzu's hardened skin isn't flexible nor elastic considering he can't move hardened body parts. The juubi clone's body is more elastic and flexible compared to ordinary human bodies considering how much it bent (

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). Notice how despite its flexibility, the fission had a hole? Chouji's spiky human boulder doesn't apply much force in comparison so Sakura's punch should breach domu.

Had to cut this post short, however yes Sakura has a massive amount of stamina but that doesn't change the fact that she can still be caught off guard and off balance. Don't understimate Kakuzu's reserves as well, who sealed a Bijuu and fought 7 shinobi in combat without breaking a sweat.

Sakura remained balanced and kept running when she frantically moved out of the way from

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. What makes you think she's going to lose her balance here?

 

[EZQ]

yes it's been a long time since i see him.

I shall take his place on this debate :bdpf:

 

[Icelerate]

yes it's been a long time since i see him.

I shall take his place on this debate :bdpf:

I was thinking about asking you to do so.

 

[EZQ]

I was thinking about asking you to do so.

Okay. Anyways i disagree with a lot of zexion's point so we could do this again (you post the same opener if you want)

 

[Lord Tywin]

Verdict

The shittiest character loses

 

[Icelerate]

Okay. Anyways i disagree with a lot of zexion's point so we could do this again (you post the same opener if you want)

So you want to make a new thread? On second thought, I shouldn't distract myself or else I'll fall behind in my studies. Sorry.

 

[Zexion~]

Damn EZQ.....

This is going to get long.

 

[Power Bottom]

I love this thread <3

Ice won imo

 

[EZQ]

Damn EZQ.....

This is going to get long.

Then keep it up man. Finish it

Mod Break by Annalise

Bumping up old threads is not allowed as stated in the global rules. Do not do it again. Thank you.