Not all muslims have to be determined to kill. The overwhelming majority of muslims, however, are willing to allow those who kill to expand the influence of the religion.
Further, if all muslims were to blatantly begin an offensive war against us, we'd actually fight a war. Islam can't afford a war with the West right now, let alone manage to convince the Indians and Chinese that it's finally time to put an end to the tumor known as Pakistan.
There is a great need for the illusion of 'moderate' Islam and for the need to preserve the mystique of Islam in the eyes of non-muslims. At least until Islam has gained the upper hand in an area.
There's a difference between those who are actively killing and those who are willing to see people killed for the fulfillment of their religion's manifest destiny.
Said it before, and I'll say it again. If Islam really was the way people try and make it out to be, we'd have been in WW3 from a long time ago given how many muslims there are.
Still love how, despite all the propaganda against it, the religion is still the fastest growing on the planet. No other religion has faced this much bad press. yet it just keeps on pushing, lulz.
The Quran must be some deep shit to have brought up such radical extremism among some muslims. Even if there isn't a large proportion of them compared to normal muslims...there's still a plentiful amount of these radical muslims that have caused a high amount of Terrorism in today's society.
Right so in other words lets focus on the bad apples instead of the good ones who are not there to ruin society.
What you people don't understand is that no matter what book these radicals are following they don't deserve the identity of any religion. The Quaran did not create these people. The people themselves interpreted the religion to fit there brainwashed thinking. Why should we the peaceful ones stand up to say we are not one of them?
Please read my earlier posts and the one you just quoted better... I said that "by his logic..." meaning that by Hawkers logic you could say X + Y = Z. Another example would be that by his logic since some morons are polygamist all morons practice polygamy.
Said it before, and I'll say it again. If Islam really was the way people try and make it out to be, we'd have been in WW3 from a long time ago given how many muslims there are.
Still love how, despite all the propaganda against it, the religion is still the fastest growing on the planet. No other religion has faced this much bad press. yet it just keeps on pushing, lulz.
Basically. It's the problem they created anyways. Why do we have to pay for the ignorance of of people who represent opposite values to western ideology? How many women have to be raped or people beaten or killed before the immigrants and refugees understand to respect our laws.
Btw. about muslim raping western women, here's a islamic professor talking about the phenomenon. And it's as I suspected:
A female professor from the renowned Al-Azhar University in Cairo, Egypt, says that Muslim men are allowed by Allah to rape non-Muslim women in order to “humiliate” them:
Wtf, that's pure ignorance, and you believe anything you hear with proof? No where in the Quran does it say that, nor hadith, I Am a muslim in Nigeria and boko haram kill more muslims than non muslims, I've cousins that got killed at the mosque, they claim to be muslims, but they aint, so stop taking what an ignorant woman says because that's what you want to hear, so radicals aint muslims, and noo muslims arent allowed to rape anyone for humiliation, they aint even allowed to hurt women and children in times of war talkless of raping them
Your wikipedia article if you'd have read closely provides same kind of results in it's opinion surveys section. There's even PEW research surveys included. The same ones I've been using. The first gallup however was not something I've seen before.
I have looked closely. What you're serving here are half-truths, laying out only the part of the surveys wich supports your claims while failing to mention the part that doesn't.
For instance, the first ICM poll you've mentioned indeed claims that 20% muslims sympathize, but 99% of overall muslims (including those who claimed to sympathize to this or that extent) condemn the act.
"According to an ICM Research poll in 2006, 20% of British Muslims felt sympathy with the July 7 terrorist bombers' "feelings and motives", although 99 per cent thought the bombers were wrong to carry out the attack.[24] "
Same goes for other western countries reviewed by PEW in wich the majority condemns the act, while the rest are further divided on to wich extent it could be justified with only 1-8% calling it justified always. (Why these people aren't in jail tough is a puzzling)
Wikipedia only takes into account studies wich have been verified as trustworthy. What does that tell you?
Another thing you seem to forget is that these surveys bring contradictive results, as they depend on the people they are interviewing. They don't cover all the muslims in one nation so with different individuals you get different stats.
In all cases tough, the majority of muslims condemned the act. So even that portion of the surveyed agreed that the acts are not justified.
As for the middle-eastern countries in wich justification is a lot higher than in the west, they are under a different form of Islam, as I have already pointed out. The terrorist groups are raging rampant there so there are bound to be different views.
So imo the only rational conclusion is that islamic leaders have failed. Who will actually make the distinction between of what Islam actually teaches and what is silently condoned, when such a big part of that religion has those views.
Nevertheless people aren't only judging Islam based on terrorist attacks. Like I mentioned sharia law. You say those are irrelevant but it's related on the view of muslims and thus affects the judging part. Which was what your original comment was about. Judging.
"That much is obvious. If Islamic leaders condemn an act then that speaks for Islam as they are religion's officials.
Unless someone is a mind-reader he has no right to claim what someone thinks or 'silently agrees' to that wich has been officially condemned."
The point is that those who disagree with the official views of religion are a part of a different group as their practices and understanding of Islam is greatly different from that wich is officially accepted.
The topic here is do "normal" muslims condemn radicals. Something that is common sense as for someone to be a "normal muslim" (follower of the official view) they must agree with the "normal form" (officially accepted) of Islam. It wasn't about what do people in middle-east say nor how many think this or that.
The surveys wich you brought into this topic, while irrelevant, ironically prove that more muslims condemns the acts.
Also, I never said that there are no muslims here who justify the act, nor am I saying this or that version of Islam is more accurate. The point of this thread was that "normal" muslims/non-radicals don't support radicals. You have no right to accuse those who oppose radicals of supporting them, as that would ignore their very stance.
Right so in other words lets focus on the bad apples instead of the good ones who are not there to ruin society.
What you people don't understand is that no matter what book these radicals are following they don't deserve the identity of any religion. The Quaran did not create these people. The people themselves interpreted the religion to fit there brainwashed thinking. Why should we the peaceful ones stand up to say we are not one of them?
@Bold.....what matters is these radicals are basing their ideology from whatever scripture has been shown from the Quran (specifically) . No other radicals from any other religion (other than Islamists) has made such a high volume of Terrorism in modern society. I don't know what content is in the Quran but the book clearly has content that is allowing many muslims to become extremists.
Yes, the Woman in the Video is right. The Peaceful majority is Irrelevant because it's the extremist minority that can cause terror among millions.
@Bold.....what matters is these radicals are basing their ideology from whatever scripture has been shown from the Quran (specifically) . No other radicals from any other religion (other than Islamists) has made such a high volume of Terrorism in modern society. I don't know what content is in the Quran but the book clearly has content that is allowing many muslims to become extremists.
Yes, the Woman in the Video is right. The Peaceful majority is Irrelevant because it's the extremist minority that can cause terror among millions.
No the book does not say to go rape people or behead people if they do not follow the same religion as you. That is a big misconception you people have. The thing I am trying to get across to you is that instead of looking at these radicals as people who follow the same religion as the majority who do. Try to understand that these people are brainwashed people who have misinterpreted the Quaran to fit in there favor. I myself have been told that so and so is a sin till I searched it myself to find out it isn't. Some people tend to take the teachings to the extreme. When in reality its very simple.
We could say that about any race or any culture than. Should we go off pointing fingers at everyone now? You do understand that this stuff is the reason humanity has conflicts? We are to busy giving labels to people. Instead of identifying them as criminals. You do know that radicals also kill off muslims? They are not exactly the most kindest people. If you want I could give you a news report of the recent bombing in Pakistan by the Pakistani tailban.
No the book does not say to go rape people or behead people if they do not follow the same religion as you. That is a big misconception you people have. The thing I am trying to get across to you is that instead of looking at these radicals as people who follow the same religion as the majority who do. Try to understand that these people are brainwashed people who have misinterpreted the Quaran to fit in there favor. I myself have been told that so and so is a sin till I searched it myself to find out it isn't. Some people tend to take the teachings to the extreme. When in reality its very simple.
We could say that about any race or any culture than. Should we go off pointing fingers at everyone now? You do understand that this stuff is the reason humanity has conflicts? We are to busy giving labels to people. Instead of identifying them as criminals. You do know that radicals also kill off muslims? They are not exactly the most kindest people. If you want I could give you a news report of the recent bombing in Pakistan by the Pakistani tailban.
So the Quran doesn't have muhammed and his followers raping girls and killing infidels ?
I'm gonna post a link with quotes from the Quran. If all these quotes are wrong then show why.
You must be registered for see links
Also, I've been thinking.....If Islam is a religion of peace, then shouldn't extremists be be extremely peaceful ? (by that logic)
So the Quran doesn't have muhammed and his followers raping girls and killing infidels ?
I'm gonna post a link with quotes from the Quran. If all these quotes are wrong then show why.
You must be registered for see links
Also, I've been thinking.....If Islam is a religion of peace, then shouldn't extremists be be extremely peaceful ? (by that logic)
Sorry but that first point of yours made me laugh hard. Not sure where you interpreted that?
Anywho no offense dude but I got work. I don't got time to debunk every quote in that article. Nor is that the point of the thread. What I told you thus far is basic human logic. If you wanna do research on Islam than do it on your own spare time.
The extremists take the teachings to the extreme. What they follow is there own brainwashed version of Islam. I can't believe you still don't understand that yet?
Or Simply because, normal muslims have used their own law abiding morals and Interpreted the Quran the way they see fit , by ignoring all the immoral stuff.
While extremists have taken everything in the Quran into their ideology.
The Way I see it, Extremists are following Islam to the fullest....while, normal muslims have nitpicked the good bits from the Quran to follow and abide by.
Again, that's just how I see it from the evidence I've seen so far.
I have looked closely. What you're serving here are half-truths, laying out only the part of the surveys wich supports your claims while failing to mention the part that doesn't.
For instance, the first ICM poll you've mentioned indeed claims that 20% muslims sympathize, but 99% of overall muslims (including those who claimed to sympathize to this or that extent) condemn the act.
"According to an ICM Research poll in 2006, 20% of British Muslims felt sympathy with the July 7 terrorist bombers' "feelings and motives", although 99 per cent thought the bombers were wrong to carry out the attack.[24] "
Same goes for other western countries reviewed by PEW in wich the majority condemns the act, while the rest are further divided on to wich extent it could be justified with only 1-8% calling it justified always. (Why these people aren't in jail tough is a puzzling)
Wikipedia only takes into account studies wich have been verified as trustworthy. What does that tell you?
Another thing you seem to forget is that these surveys bring contradictive results, as they depend on the people they are interviewing. They don't cover all the muslims in one nation so with different individuals you get different stats.
In all cases tough, the majority of muslims condemned the act. So even that portion of the surveyed agreed that the acts are not justified.
As for the middle-eastern countries in wich justification is a lot higher than in the west, they are under a different form of Islam, as I have already pointed out. The terrorist groups are raging rampant there so there are bound to be different views.
My original post was this:
"That much is obvious. If Islamic leaders condemn an act then that speaks for Islam as they are religion's officials.
Unless someone is a mind-reader he has no right to claim what someone thinks or 'silently agrees' to that wich has been officially condemned."
The point is that those who disagree with the official views of religion are a part of a different group as their practices and understanding of Islam is greatly different from that wich is officially accepted.
The topic here is do "normal" muslims condemn radicals. Something that is common sense as for someone to be a "normal muslim" (follower of the official view) they must agree with the "normal form" (officially accepted) of Islam. It wasn't about what do people in middle-east say nor how many think this or that.
The surveys wich you brought into this topic, while irrelevant, ironically prove that more muslims condemns the acts.
Also, I never said that there are no muslims here who justify the act, nor am I saying this or that version of Islam is more accurate. The point of this thread was that "normal" muslims/non-radicals don't support radicals. You have no right to accuse those who oppose radicals of supporting them, as that would ignore their very stance.
Almost all of my researches are from PEW research center. So you saying wikipedia only uses articles which have been verified trustworthy bares no meaning in this conversation as I meant 1) wikipedia uses same articles as me 2) most of the those articles don't reflect the conclusion in the Gallup's survey which is mentioned first in that section.
But yes most of the muslims disapprove suicide bombings. You saying I mention only half truths is irrelevant and a claim that the lady in the youtube video above owned. We are not talking about muslims who are good. We are talking about muslims who do bad. The good in this discussion are irrelevant.
Problem are people with these attitudes / people who act like terrorists --> they are muslims. Period.
Another thing you seem to forget is that these surveys bring contradictive results, as they depend on the people they are interviewing. They don't cover all the muslims in one nation so with different individuals you get different stats.
In all cases tough, the majority of muslims condemned the act. So even that portion of the surveyed agreed that the acts are not justified.
You don't seem to understand how probability statistics or surveys work. It's called a sample that represents the rest of the group. And you are wrong, they don't bring contradictive results as the margin with suicide bombing approvers was 20-40%. It would be contradicting if one would say 30% approve and another would say only 1% approve. But there's a clear pattern in all muslim countries.
You don't even know if the muslims in this video are normal muslims, so first and foremost labeling them as such is wrong, but I read the text of your wiki link and it seems that you are right. But still I've never said every muslim is a terrorist. I'm just saying that if 20-40% of them agree with terrorism in my country or in any other country in Europe, they all need to get out. They all will suffer from the views of the minority. Also to me accepting sharia law is as equal as being a radical. So if you chose to represent a religion that accepts those values, you are to blame and I will condemn you same as radicals.
I don't think you should preach about common sense with the sky daddy syndrome.
Or Simply because, normal muslims have used their own law abiding morals and Interpreted the Quran the way they see fit , by ignoring all the immoral stuff.
While extremists have taken everything in the Quran into their ideology.
The Way I see it, Extremists are following Islam to the fullest....while, normal muslims have nitpicked the good bits from the Quran to follow to abide by.
Again, that's just how I see it from the evidence I've seen so far.
How can you say that when you haven't even read the Quran nor understood its meaning? You just showed me a anti-Islamic site and told me to view those quotes. Can you really prove the prophet was a rapist?
How can you say that when you haven't even read the Quran nor understood its meaning? You just showed me a anti-Islamic site and told me to view those quotes. Can you really prove the prophet was a rapist?
According to history books he was a war mongering pedophile. And he is the rolemodel of all muslims apparently.
Kingforever7 is right. Extremists are just interpreting all of Quran. Others just cherrypick while at the same time every muslim says that all of what Quran says is 100% true, so it's illogical and hypocritical to condemn radicals which your book, your religion made.
Why would you want proof for that when you don't even have proof for Allah, in which you believe in?
