Zabuza VS Kimimaro

[EZQ]

Kimi was surviving and was able to wrestle free of Gaara's sand coffin which exerts enough pressure to make a human body explode. Water Prison pressure would be a walk in the park.

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That was even without CS2 state which made it even easier

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Also Kimi's bone were able to pierce the ground while being dragged under which again exerts extreme preasures

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Hell, Even base Gai was able to punch quite deep into it

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1- Lol all those feats are irrelevant when Kimmi won't even be able to move inside it. He needs to break it without moving. Movement is restrained thanks to the weight of the water and chakra density that the user keeps with his hand on the prison

2-Already adressed that water prison is no where near as powerful as the original one

3- If kimmi uses cm2 on this fight he dies after 5 seconds

 

[Exaar]

1- Lol all those feats are irrelevant when Kimmi won't even be able to move inside it. He needs to break it without moving. Movement is restrained thanks to the weight of the water and chakra density that the user keeps with his hand on the prison

If he can move and wrestle out of Sand Coffin he can move in water prison. Unless you think water prison has more Preasure than sand coffin.

Besides he doesn't need to move to use his Bone Jutsu, All he needs to to is target Zabuza's hand via his bone jutsu and done.

2-Already adressed that water prison is no where near as powerful as the original one

Based on what exactly?

3- If kimmi uses cm2 on this fight he dies after 5 seconds

Exaggerate much?

 

[EZQ]

If he can move and wrestle out of Sand Coffin he can move in water prison. Unless you think water prison has more Preasure than sand coffin.

Besides he doesn't need to move to use his Bone Jutsu, All he needs to to is target Zabuza's hand via his bone jutsu and done.

If he did it without CS2 then i'd concede that Zabuza can't drown him in water prison. If he walked out of sand coffin with CS2 then if he uses CS2 to escape water prison then Zabuza just jumps back, and Kimmi is still a poor blind and daft guy that now has a time limit. So using CS2 is useless.

Based on what exactly?

-After being hit by Hirudora Kisame performed those prisons
-They werent even hard enough to restrain movement, while the previous water prisons restrained Kakashi and team guy from movement
-Kisame didn't have a hand holding the prison so that must explain why they could move freely inside it, and hence why Gai could punch deep into it.

Exaggerate much?

Lol yes. But my point is that even with CS2, Kimmimaro is still under a complicated situation here. He can't see or hear Zabuza, so his attacks would be useless. And with cs2 he has a time limit before dying.

 

[Exaar]

If he did it without CS2 then i'd concede that Zabuza can't drown him in water prison. If he walked out of sand coffin with CS2 then if he uses CS2 to escape water prison then Zabuza just jumps back, and Kimmi is still a poor blind and daft guy that now has a time limit. So using CS2 is useless.

He walked out of sand coffin with level 1 curse seal, He doesn't even need curse seal to escape water prison, Because as i said he doesn't need to move to use his bone Jutsu.

-After being hit by Hirudora Kisame performed those prisons
-They werent even hard enough to restrain movement, while the previous water prisons restrained Kakashi and team guy from movement
-Kisame didn't have a hand holding the prison so that must explain why they could move freely inside it, and hence why Gai could punch deep into it.

Even in that state, He is still stronger than zabuza so i doubt it hugely affect his jutsu strength.

Vs Team Gai he needed contact with the water Prison, He used clones and kept their hands placed on the sphere. Second time he used it he didn't use his hand because he was inside it.

As long as the water sphere doesn't stop the user from using Jutsu's, it's no threat to Kimi at all.

 

[EZQ]

He walked out of sand coffin with level 1 curse seal, He doesn't even need curse seal to escape water prison, Because as i said he doesn't need to move to use his bone Jutsu.

Then i concede on this subject

Even in that state, He is still stronger than zabuza so i doubt it hugely affect his jutsu strength.

Vs Team Gai he needed contact with the water Prison, He used clones and kept their hands placed on the sphere. Second time he used it he didn't use his hand because he was inside it.

As long as the water sphere doesn't stop the user from using Jutsu's, it's no threat to Kimi at all.

Conceeded except on the prison thing. That prison is still weaker than the one that needs the user hands on it. Irrelevant since i already conceeded Kimmi breaks from it.

Still, Kimimaro doesn't win this.

 

[Magnolius]

Kimimaro winds mid-high dif :sdo:

 

[EZQ]

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Part 1 Gaara reacted to it and had enough time to go airborn. Zabuza finds a safe spot between the bones:

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There's enough space.

After that jutsu, kimmimaro is out of battle.

Gaara's sand is outspeeded by healthy p1 rock lee. And don't make me start bringing scans of the speed difference between gennin and jonnin. That same sand was fast enough to go to rock lee and take him to a safe height.

 

[Imperious]

Part 1 Gaara reacted to it and had enough time to go airborn. Zabuza finds a safe spot between the bones:

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There's enough space.

After that jutsu, kimmimaro is out of battle.

Gaara's sand is outspeeded by healthy p1 rock lee. And don't make me start bringing scans of the speed difference between gennin and jonnin. That same sand was fast enough to go to rock lee and take him to a safe height.

This is more of a counteract to hidden mist, I could see it potentially surprising and distracting Zabu enough for Kimi to get a few hits him.

 

[Curse Mark]

Part 1 Gaara reacted to it and had enough time to go airborn. Zabuza finds a safe spot between the bones:

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There's enough space.

After that jutsu, kimmimaro is out of battle.

Gaara's sand is outspeeded by healthy p1 rock lee. And don't make me start bringing scans of the speed difference between gennin and jonnin. That same sand was fast enough to go to rock lee and take him to a safe height.

how about instead of bringing the speed difference between genin and jonin you use the characters? Bring Zabuza's speed feats that put him anywhere near gated lee

 

[Exaar]

Part 1 Gaara reacted to it and had enough time to go airborn. Zabuza finds a safe spot between the bones:

There's enough space.

After that jutsu, kimmimaro is out of battle.

Regardless of if there is space or not, Zabuza's hidden mist works against him here.

Zabuza cannot see within the mist himself either, he relys only on his hearing. Thus he cannot see the bones or the Gaps between them. He can jump to attempt avoid them but he would have to be real lucky to land in a safe spot while he can barely see what is going on himself.

Also Kimi is not "out of the battle" when he uses that Jutsu.

Gaara's sand is outspeeded by healthy p1 rock lee. And don't make me start bringing scans of the speed difference between gennin and jonnin. That same sand was fast enough to go to rock lee and take him to a safe height.

Higher rank =/= higher speed.

Chunin exam Gaara =/= SRA Gaara

 

[KidGamer65]

Did this guy really say that Zabuza finds a spot in between the bones to escape Sawarabi no Mai? Rofl wtf?

 

[Curse Mark]

Did this guy really say that Zabuza finds a spot in between the bones to escape Sawarabi no Mai? Rofl wtf?

Regardless of if there is space or not, Zabuza's hidden mist works against him here.

Zabuza cannot see within the mist himself either, he relys only on his hearing. Thus he cannot see the bones or the Gaps between them. He can jump to attempt avoid them but he would have to be real lucky to land in a safe spot while he can barely see what is going on himself.

Also Kimi is not "out of the battle" when he uses that Jutsu.



Higher rank =/= higher speed.

Chunin exam Gaara =/= SRA Gaara

Even if he did find a space in between the bones, Kimi pops out of them and disembowels that punk.

 

[EZQ]

Even if he did find a space in between the bones, Kimi pops out of them and disembowels that punk.

How does he know where to pop out? Don't forget he still can't see him.

Lol at KG lurking. The scan clearly shows there's space inbetween the bones.

 

[Curse Mark]

How does he know where to pop out? Don't forget he still can't see him.

Lol at KG lurking. The scan clearly shows there's space inbetween the bones.

How did he know where to pop out against gaara and lee?
Unless you think he could somehow see them from underground.

 

[Chaosmark101]

Kimi wins this low mid difficulty. Made an argument for both Zabuza & Haku against Kimi before, Doctor proof & others shut it down.

 

[EZQ]

Regardless of if there is space or not, Zabuza's hidden mist works against him here.

Zabuza cannot see within the mist himself either, he relys only on his hearing. Thus he cannot see the bones or the Gaps between them. He can jump to attempt avoid them but he would have to be real lucky to land in a safe spot while he can barely see what is going on himself.

Also Kimi is not "out of the battle" when he uses that Jutsu.

We've already argued this. You are already thinking that Zabuza would use his v2 mist against Kimimaro which blinds him completely, while against Kimimaro who does not have dojutsu, he only needs his v1 mist in which he can see perfectly, and it's thick enough to hide and ambush attack. And by canon, Kimimaro can't hold v2 for a long time without dying.

Higher rank =/= higher speed.

Not entirely true since jonins are generaly a lot faster than genin or chunin. I don't feel like looking for the scans of Kakashi intercepting both naruto and Sasuke who were respectively using rasengan and chidori against eachother, or the jonnin intercepting neji, etc.[/quote]

 

[EZQ]

How did he know where to pop out against gaara and lee?
Unless you think he could somehow see them from underground.

He already knew their general location since he saw where Gara was when he buried him. Unless you're suggesting Kimmimaro has sensing skills.

 

[Exaar]

We've already argued this. You are already thinking that Zabuza would use his v2 mist against Kimimaro which blinds him completely, while against Kimimaro who does not have dojutsu, he only needs his v1 mist in which he can see perfectly, and it's thick enough to hide and ambush attack. And by canon, Kimimaro can't hold v2 for a long time without dying.

Zabuza can see perfectly in V1 mist when not even Dojutsu can?.

Not entirely true since jonins are generaly a lot faster than genin or chunin. I don't feel like looking for the scans of Kakashi intercepting both naruto and Sasuke who were respectively using rasengan and chidori against eachother, or the jonnin intercepting neji, etc.

Lee is hardly a normal Genin/Chunin now is he.

He scored a solid 4/5 in speed in his Genin state, His Chunin state Scored a 4.5. Both speed scores could keep up with Jonin.

He already knew their general location since he saw where Gara was when he buried him. Unless you're suggesting Kimmimaro has sensing skills.

He had no idea of their location after the attack. For all he know Lee and Gaara should of died to the attack since gaara had shown no ability to fly before his jutsu, So he had no reason to assume that they avoided the attack or even how they would do so, let alone Judging their Flying location/high based on their location when they were standing on solid ground.

Yet Kimi came up at the perfect height and location even getting behind Gaara.

 

[Curse Mark]

I have nothing to add to Exaar's response. Kimi had no knowledge Gaara could even fly yet he knew exactly where they'd be hovering?

 

[EZQ]

Zabuza can see perfectly in V1 mist when not even Dojutsu can?.

He was able to tell in detail what Kakashi did on it.v(If you remember the scan of Zabuza explaining how he realized Kakashi switched with a water clone then it saves me the trouble).

I said perfectly refering to there won't be problem on seeing the bones coming form underground.

Lee is hardly a normal Genin/Chunin now is he.

Lee is really fast. He's not faster than Zabuza on part 1.

He scored a solid 4/5 in speed in his Genin state, His Chunin state Scored a 4.5. Both speed scores could keep up with Jonin.

Reflexes, reactions and agility are all upgraded when they reach jonnin level. There are a lot of examples. Hell, Kakashi without even taking off his headband was able to intercept rasengan and chidori from Naruto's and Sasuke's rists, who both where running so fast that they couldn't stop to not kill sakura. And again, Lee is not faster than Zabuza on part 1.

He had no idea of their location after the attack. For all he know Lee and Gaara should of died to the attack since gaara had shown no ability to fly before his jutsu, So he had no reason to assume that they avoided the attack or even how they would do so, let alone Judging their Flying location/high based on their location when they were standing on solid ground.

All assumptions. Why wouldn't he want to make sure they both died if he already knew how strong gaara was?

Things that could've happened:

-He came out to surface on a different point, located them and then used his "mayflay" kind of ability
-He just came out at the location Gaara was before the attack, to make sure he's dead

Things that most likely didn't happen:

-Kimmimaro having sensing abilities when it hasn't been showed or mentioned.

Yet Kimi came up at the perfect height and location even getting behind Gaara.

Adressed