[SPOILERS] Very disappointed w/ The Force Awakens

[UltraPain]

I just saw The Force Awakens today and although I really, really wanted to like this movie I just can't.

Here are my reasons:

1.) Way too much rehashing from A New Hope:
- The story starts on a desert planet just like Tatooine.
- A secret map is stored on a droid and the enemy is looking for that droid.
- Rey lives on a desert planet, comes from humble beginnings, and dresses in white, loose fit clothes just like Luke.
- The bad guys have another circular, beam firing, planet busting super weapon.
- The heroes hide inside the Millennium Falcon's smuggling compartments when captured.
- The heroes go to a sketchy bar.
- The female lead is captured and kept on the super weapon.
- A team boards the weapon to save the female lead.
- The death star III Starkiller base attempts to blow up the rebel planet.
- The rebels find an obvious flaw in the super weapon, send x-wings, and blow it up.

2.) Captain Phasma was useless
- We only see her for three brief scenes and she does absolutely nothing.

3.) Rey was too perfect
- Now before anyone overreacts, I really like Rey's character. She's tough, she's smart, and my biggest wish of her being the Jedi instead of Finn came true. What bothers me though is that she could automatically pilot the Falcon, could operate any space faring tech even though she's never been on a spacefaring ship, could speak Wookiee despite us never seeing her interact with any on her home planet, and she used the force like a pro even though she had zero training. It's not a rewarding experience to see a character achieve so much with little struggle. A main character needs to overcome losses to grow!

4.) Kylo Ren:
- He wore a mask for no practical reason like Vader needed. It was obvioisly just a tool to make him look cool.
- His resolve and connection to the dark side felt weak when compared to other Sith.
- Every time I saw his face it looked like he was about to cry.
- His design was underwhelming when compared to other sith. No dark look, no twisted features, no red eyes, etc.

5.) Rey vs Kylo Ren
- How TF does Rey kick Ren's ass so bad when she's only had a connection with the force for about an hour and has had zero training?! I call bull****. Even the most powerful force sensitive will be obliterated if they are not properly trained.

6.) Han Solo
- We all saw his death coming from a mile away.
- He dies in a rehashed fashion to Obi Wan. Someone that he cares about kills him, he dies on board the super weapon, etc.
- The story keeps moving too quickly for us to stop and mourn his death, thus we don't really feel the weight of that event.
- Him and Leia breaking up was barely explained and wasn't necessary.
- Seeing that he abandoned the rebellion to smuggle again made no sense. At the end of ROTJ he became a general who had clearly dedicated himself to the cause and was there to stay. Why would he back out again just to overcome the same anxiety a second time? We don't want to see characters overcoming the same problems they've already overcome before. It's the opposite of character progression and a complete waste of time.

7.) Luke Skywalker
- Luke departing the Resistance just to leave them hanging during their most desperate time makes no sense.
- Turned into Yoda 2.0 by choosing self exile.
- Luke should have stepped in to save Rey from Ren. This would have been a great opportunity to display his power and to avoid having Rey unrealistically spank Ren's ass

8.) Too many fan service jokes
- Way too many fan service jokes instead of trying to make new, original ones.
- The very few jokes that were original are not memorable and will not be treasured like the classic one-liners we all love.

9.) The New Order
- Why even be called the New Order when it is the exact same thing as what the empire was? They have storm troopers, tie fighters, star destroyers, two dark side users, and the same motivation of galactic rule.

 

[Everztar]

The lightsaber fights were sooooooooooooo LAME

 

[UltraPain]

The lightsaber fights were sooooooooooooo LAME

I totally agree and I was actually thinking about adding another bullet on that. The sparks, heat from the blades, etc were nice cosmetic touches but the fighters had no finesse, acrobatic ability, speed, or flow that we saw in previous movies. It was all just hack and slash fighting.

 

[Nobel]

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Not everyone is entitled to the force

 

[Everztar]

I totally agree and I was actually thinking about adding another bullet on that. The sparks, heat from the blades, etc were nice cosmetic touches but the fighters had no finesse, acrobatic ability, speed, or flow that we saw in previous movies. It was all just hack and slash fighting.

it felt 1977 all over again... i was expecting something familiar to the fights between Count Dooku vs Obi-wan and Anakin... it was so much better... and realistic movements... very good coreography :/ i was disapointed on this matter :/

 

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

You're correct on many of these points but I still managed to enjoy the film. (My only one I really love is a New Hope)

-Rey is a mary sue but is so damn likeable I almost don't mind. She has miles more characterisation than Luke did by the end of his first film.

-Ben Solo is meant to not be as threatening as Vader. Somebody who looks like they're about to cry, throws tantrums and literally bobbles as he walks- you're supposed to be able to tell he's a wannabe Darth Vader as he's clearly unstable.

-The way it uses New Hope as a framework is by far the biggest problem, the imagery is far too similar and it follows this 'soft reboot' logic that Prometheus & Jurassic World have done lately. It's a safe way to ensure box office hits without taking too much of a risk, giving people what they know sadly ensures a crowdpleaser.

Happily though, I thought what was new was brilliant- and held up and basically carried the film.

it felt 1977 all over again... i was expecting something familiar to the fights between Count Dooku vs Obi-wan and Anakin... it was so much better... and realistic movements... very good coreography :/ i was disapointed on this matter :/

The action was much better than 1977 loooool

TR-8TOR, Finn & Rey were amateurs. Kylo has nobody to practice against, honestly I wanted LESS choreography considering they're all holding a lightsaber for the first time...Finn put up a bit too good of a fight in my opinion.

When there's only 3-4 people who even carry a saber in the film and they're all newbies then you know you have to wait a bit more haha

 

[Flakez]

It was made smilar to A New Hope on purpose. To remind the fans what they loved about Star Wars, to recapture the lost magic, to move from the shitty prequels. It succeeded in doing just that. I'm sure Episodes 8 and 9 will have fresh ideas.

About Kylo Ren.. You don't seem to understand that he only recently went to the dark side, hence no twisted features and what not. He wore a mask because he looks up to Vader.

You are mostly nitpicking and failing to see the purpose of this movie, and not factoring at all there will be 2 more. It was a "bridge" movie for a better trilogy.

 

[Melanin]

The lightsaber fights were sooooooooooooo LAME

Indeed, I actually started texting in the middle of the movie.

I stood in line for hours in my cloak for lameness.

 

[UltraPain]

The action was much better than 1977 loooool

TR-8TOR, Finn & Rey were amateurs. Kylo has nobody to practice against, honestly I wanted LESS choreography considering they're all holding a lightsaber for the first time...Finn put up a bit too good of a fight in my opinion.

When there's only 3-4 people who even carry a saber in the film and they're all newbies then you know you have to wait a bit more haha

I see what you mean about some characters being noobs, but if that was the case then I wish it was kept consistent.

In the very beginning we saw Kylo stop a laser bolt in midair, which is something we've never seen even the most skilled masters do in previous movies. Showing the audience that skill clearly showed that he was to be interpreted on another level. Kylo's more successful use of mind reading over even Vader showed us his skill too. But then he fights a lowly noob and gets trashed in seconds.

It was made smilar to A New Hope on purpose. To remind the fans what they loved about Star Wars, to recapture the lost magic, to move from the shitty prequels. It succeeded in doing just that. I'm sure Episodes 8 and 9 will have fresh ideas.

About Kylo Ren.. You don't seem to understand that he only recently went to the dark side, hence no twisted features and what not. He wore a mask because he looks up to Vader.

You are mostly nitpicking and failing to see the purpose of this movie, and not factoring at all there will be 2 more. It was a "bridge" movie for a better trilogy.

The magic of Star Wars IMO is the idea that new things can happen in a vast galaxy, not that the same story can be told again and again. We have too many movies doing that right now and I think Bad Touch Yukushi explained that very well.

We don't know if Ren just recently went to the dark side because it was never explained how long ago his switch had happened. As for the mask, I will say the same as I said above: It is an excuse to rehash. Also, don't forget that Anakin switched to the dark side and showed signs of dark force use within hours.

 

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

I see what you mean about some characters being noobs, but if that was the case then I wish it was kept consistent.

In the very beginning we saw Kylo stop a laser bolt in midair, which is something we've never seen even the most skilled masters do in previous movies. Showing the audience that skill clearly showed that he was to be interpreted on another level. Kylo's more successful use mind reading over ever Vader showed us his skill too. But then he fights a lowly noob and gets trashed in seconds.

Remember Kylo was taught the force by the two greatest force users currently whereas there were no lightsaber users to fight against- even his lightsaber is just like a fan-made cosplay thing. I like that pathetic part of his identity. Like a lil lost boy playing Darth Vader. Plus It IS called the force awakens haha

Also LOL at whoever said the over-choreographed overplayed fights from the prequels were 'more realistic', funniest thing i've seen all week. A few of them were cool but most were hugely overdramatic and only iconic because of John Williams' score. When the skill levels go up but less CGI is used, you'll see how the new trilogy battles will be the greatest of them all. The cinemtography, realism & dramatic weight of the original battles VS the more video game-ish capabilities of swordplay from the prequels.

Either way, no fight is beating Luke VS Vader guys. Not ever.

 

[UltraPain]

Remember Kylo was taught the force by the two greatest force users currently whereas there were no lightsaber users to fight against- even his lightsaber is just like a fan-made cosplay thing. I like that pathetic part of his identity. Like a lil lost boy playing Darth Vader. Plus It IS called the force awakens haha

Also LOL at whoever said the over-choreographed overplayed fights from the prequels were 'more realistic', funniest thing i've seen all week. A few of them were cool but most were hugely overdramatic and only iconic because of John Williams' score. When the skill levels go up but less CGI is used, you'll see how the new trilogy battles will be the greatest of them all. The cinemtography, realism & dramatic weight of the original battles VS the more video game-ish capabilities of swordplay from the prequels.

Either way, no fight is beating Luke VS Vader guys. Not ever.

But Kylo had Luke to train with in saber combat and that should have easily been more than enough IMO.

As for realistic duels, this is Star Wars, not the history channel so the traditional rules of sword fighting in our universe shouldn't matter. Have you ever read about the different lightsaber fighting styles before? It actually makes a lot of sense when you learn about them and see how they were applied in the prequels.

 

[Wparker6804]

I just saw The Force Awakens today and although I really, really wanted to like this movie I just can't.

Here are my reasons:

1.) Way too much rehashing from A New Hope:
- The story starts on a desert planet just like Tatooine.
- A secret map is stored on a droid and the enemy is looking for that droid.
- Rey lives on a desert planet, comes from humble beginnings, and dresses in white, loose fit clothes just like Luke.
- The bad guys have another circular, beam firing, planet busting super weapon.
- The heroes hide inside the Millennium Falcon's smuggling compartments when captured.
- The heroes go to a sketchy bar.
- The female lead is captured and kept on the super weapon.
- A team boards the weapon to save the female lead.
- The death star III Starkiller base attempts to blow up the rebel planet.
- The rebels find an obvious flaw in the super weapon, send x-wings, and blow it up.

2.) Captain Phasma was useless
- We only see her for three brief scenes and she does absolutely nothing.

3.) Rey was too perfect
- Now before anyone overreacts, I really like Rey's character. She's tough, she's smart, and my biggest wish of her being the Jedi instead of Finn came true. What bothers me though is that she could automatically pilot the Falcon, could operate any space faring tech even though she's never been on a spacefaring ship, could speak Wookiee despite us never seeing her interact with any on her home planet, and she used the force like a pro even though she had zero training. It's not a rewarding experience to see a character achieve so much with little struggle. A main character needs to overcome losses to grow!

4.) Kylo Ren:
- He wore a mask for no practical reason like Vader needed. It was obvioisly just a tool to make him look cool.
- His resolve and connection to the dark side felt weak when compared to other Sith.
- Every time I saw his face it looked like he was about to cry.
- His design was underwhelming when compared to other sith. No dark look, no twisted features, no red eyes, etc.

5.) Rey vs Kylo Ren
- How TF does Rey kick Ren's ass so bad when she's only had a connection with the force for about an hour and has had zero training?! I call bull****. Even the most powerful force sensitive will be obliterated if they are not properly trained.

6.) Han Solo
- We all saw his death coming from a mile away.
- He dies in a rehashed fashion to Obi Wan. Someone that he cares about kills him, he dies on board the super weapon, etc.
- The story keeps moving too quickly for us to stop and mourn his death, thus we don't really feel the weight of that event.
- Him and Leia breaking up was barely explained and wasn't necessary.
- Seeing that he abandoned the rebellion to smuggle again made no sense. At the end of ROTJ he became a general who had clearly dedicated himself to the cause and was there to stay. Why would he back out again just to overcome the same anxiety a second time? We don't want to see characters overcoming the same problems they've already overcome before. It's the opposite of character progression and a complete waste of time.

7.) Luke Skywalker
- Luke departing the Resistance just to leave them hanging during their most desperate time makes no sense.
- Turned into Yoda 2.0 by choosing self exile.
- Luke should have stepped in to save Rey from Ren. This would have been a great opportunity to display his power and to avoid having Rey unrealistically spank Ren's ass

8.) Too many fan service jokes
- Way too many fan service jokes instead of trying to make new, original ones.
- The very few jokes that were original are not memorable and will not be treasured like the classic one-liners we all love.

9.) The New Order
- Why even be called the New Order when it is the exact same thing as what the empire was? They have storm troopers, tie fighters, star destroyers, two dark side users, and the same motivation of galactic rule.

1) I thought that, too. But to me it felt like New Hope for the next generation. I enjoyed all the jokes & references to episode 4 & I agree that Death Star 3 was a crappy rehash. Although my biggest agreement & personal problem with Episode 7 was that the bar scene took way to long. One of several actually that could and should have been shaven down to expand other scenes (which I'll get into later)
2) Well she screamed badass & I KNOW she'll be in for more. I agree & it is a problem but I can wait.
3) I loved Rey as a badass & I had a feeling throughout the movie that maybe she was trained at a young age in the force. Maybe she was a survivor of Kylo Ren's outburst. Maybe her leaving was the cause? There's still a lot to be explained & explored so her knowledge of the force isn't something I'll bash just yet. And as far as piloting the Milenium Fulcon--she was a techy. She spent her entire life around technology, realizing its value & what use it would be. And her handyness with the fulcon was a plot element to get her close & drawn to Han Solo. He had to be hooked.
4) Although I do have complaints with Ren I overall liked him & they still have plenty of opportunity to expand & develop his character. His mask was used for exactly that--to be a badass & hide himself from others. And I'm glad he's not some stereotypical Sith--once again, depth & development. All of the past villains have been evil & one-dimentional while Rey can be more than that. I still have hope that he can progress
5) I guess I'll say look back at three. I'm too tired to type it twice & word it different
6) Yeah I saw it coming too--but it's not the studio's fault. Harrison Ford wanted Han Solo dead since Episode 6. And like I said in point 1, they could have had more time with that if they shaved down unnecessary scenes. But the movie is already long & you can only do so much with what you're given. And I find it VERY unlikely that Han's death will go unmentioned in future episodes.
7) I like how they handled Luke. Period. They made him a specter throughout the movie & his disappearance is a key plot point. Also bringing him in at the very end is the cliffhanger for Episode 8.
8) Well to each his own. I liked them & that's all I can really say
9) Well it was a fraction of what was left & it wasn't exactly an empire anymore. They were rejoining & rebuilding what was left to start over & take control again. Hence "New Order". Also if they said Empire people would complain about how Episode 6 amounted to nothing if the empire was still in control after 30 years.

But that's just my take on it all. I'd give it an 8 or an 8.5 out of 10. Might watch it again in 4 days & re-evaluate my opinions.

 

[GreyWizard93]

I loved it. You're clearly not thinking deep enough into it all. It's a brilliant movie with intentions of leaving alot of questions for the build up. The light sabre fights in the original were ceappy anyway. The prequels took it to a whole new level and TFA sits in between.

 

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

But Kylo had Luke to train with in saber combat and that should have easily been more than enough IMO.

As for realistic duels, this is Star Wars, not the history channel so the traditional rules of sword fighting in our universe shouldn't matter. Have you ever read about the different lightsaber fighting styles before? It actually makes a lot of sense when you learn about them and see how they were applied in the prequels.

But then why would he have his own make-shift dodgy lightsaber? Doesn't add up...

I'm just talking as movies. The prequel fights are largely over-choreographed and akin to everything in the prequels, over-reliance on blue screens and the CGI department shows a departure from real emotion shown in Return of the Jedi's battle or dramatic tension (Jabba's Barge) in favour for video game battles.

Fights were less 'impressive' in the original trilogy bc as a pastiche of Westerns, Samurai films and the like- old filmmaking understood that sword/gun fights are there to further the story, not be a distraction from it. As silly as you may think Luke VS Vader & Vader VS Obi-Wan were...you know every single emotion at stake and where this battle will take that relationship, You feel weight, the only time the prequels even slightly scrape this is the beginning of the final battle...and even then Anakin & Obi-Wan just start swinging on ropes having the most over-elaborate ridiculous fight put to screen.

And I like Revenge of the Sith a LOT. But it's not good filmmaking, nor is it the conflict style they should continue with.

 

[UltraPain]

But that's just my take on it all. I'd give it an 8 or an 8.5 out of 10. Might watch it again in 4 days & re-evaluate my opinions.

Thx for all your points. I do like the idea that Rey might have been trained in the past and if that ends up being the case then I could definitely accept Ren's defeat as more believable.

 

[UltraPain]

I loved it. You're clearly not thinking deep enough into it all. It's a brilliant movie with intentions of leaving alot of questions for the build up.

I'm just gonna post this piece from an article that I read earlier today.

Too much trilogy setup
Like most other modern movie franchises, The Force Awakens was too preoccupied with setting up the next installment when it should have been telling a standalone story. Too many plot points were left unexplained or were alluded to via a sprinkling of obnoxious breadcrumbs. It’s okay to do this in sequels, but the first movie in your trilogy should be all about the here and now.

Take A New Hope, for example — there were no cameos from the Emperor, no vague magical foretellings and no allusions to future events. Instead, it just got on with the present adventure. The only nod to a sequel it made was the escape of Darth Vader: otherwise, you could happily just watch that one movie and feel like you’d seen a complete story.

 

[6thHokage]

Rey being a Mary Sue is my only complaint.

 

[Dark Matter Thief]

1) As Rey above stated, the film was made to remind fans of A New Hope, and how great it was. I had no problem with it.

2) Eh. You're right. Maybe she'll appear in the future films to challenge Finn again?

3) Rey must either be related to Leia or Luke. She was well gifted in the force. Perhaps there will be an explanation in the future films. I like to think that she was a student of Luke's when she was younger. That she was mind-wiped and sent to Jakku before the massacre. Maybe that's why she's so good.

4) Kylo Ren wears a mask because he literally prays to Darth Vader. Lol Also, he's supposed to be menacing with the mask, but pure and innocent looking without it. Represents the conflict between light and dark within him. And he doesn't need to be evil-looking with ted eyes because he isn't a Sith.

5) Let us not forget that Kylo Ren was shot in the side by a Wookie bow. He was also damaged by the lightsaber when Finn was using it. I'm pretty sure that affects your movement.

6) Han Solo's death scene was executed well. He died trying to bring his son to the light. I didn't draw any comparison to Ben's death.

7) Luke went into exile for a good reason. Maybe we'll learn more about what happened in the future films.

8) Fair enough.

9) First Order are Empire stans. I expected them to follow in their footsteps.

 

[-Punk-]

Meh same shit like always, I hope they do some changes and not stay the same as all the other movies. It was a cool movie but not a big deal for me. I still prefer superheroes over them

 

[Avani]

What makes her different than tons of generic action heroes out there like Batman?

I am yet to watch the movie but I had seen a debate over her being a Mary Sue or not and I found some interesting comments so leaving them here for discussion:

(Warning: Heavy spoilers)

Spoiler

So, with the scavenging, she was by all accounts at the bottom of the pole in terms of social class if she was allowed to be so easily screwed out of her portions like she was and couldn't do anything about it. She didn't beat that conflict except by stealing the Falcon from her boss, and she did that unwillingly, and I am pretty sure it wasn't all that great a loss to him. She escaped the storm troopers, but it has to be noted that she only did so because Finn was an extraordinarily good shot and would have been dead without him on the guns. She didn't 'win' the freighter incident, she just survived it, with her greatest victory being that she could close the doors on the monster in time so that Finn wouldn't be eaten. Otherwise, all she could do was get in the falcon and GTFO with Han (though she admittedly helped by pointing out the compression issue, but even then, Han would have spotted that a second later). She flat out lost in the storm trooper invasion on the rebel base, and the few victories she did get were against stormtroopers, and those weren't well placed shots. That's one thing Rey is undoubtedly less talented in than any other fighter, she flat out sucks at blasters. Not to the point that she can't take down stormtroopers, but you should pay attention to the wild shots she is taking when Kylo Ren stomps in. Then she won the mind battle, and successfully sneaked about, lost and wandering, until Han and Finn spotted her. Otherwise, what would she have done exactly? Ren suspected that she'd steal a ship, so he immediately ordered to put the harbors on lock down, so she was screwed there. She couldn't do anything to save Han. She was on the run for most of the fight with Kylo Ren (i'll get into the particulars of that fight in a moment) and then found a ship to steal away from the base afterwards.

To add to these points, one of the critiques I've seen of Rey is that she's perfect at everything she tries. But as you noted, two of the pivotal events in the film are from her screwing up, and both for the same reason - over confidence and impulsiveness. She's so confident from her tinkering on Jakku that she can block off the other smugglers, that she lets out the big CG buggers with ruinous consequences (Han loses his smuggling freighter).

Later, she's in the woods (having fled from Maz after the reveal of her force sensitivity), and takes a shot at a nearby stormtrooper who hadn't seen her yet. First with the safety on (proving Han right about her still having a lot to learn), then she misses the first shot outright. Then her worst mistake - she's so glad to have landed a shot she turns and angrily fires from the safety of the woods at other troopers, instantly marking her and setting Kylo on her tail, leading directly to her capture. Had she kept a level head and lay low, she's have been fine.

Yes she's capable and independent, but her cocksure attitude is a bit ahead of her skills and judgment, and that lands her and others in deep shit a couple of times.

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^That doesn't look like a Mary Sueish