Half of the Sages power > Juubis host???

[TaxiMan]

Something I never got and it's still bothering me to this day.

If Naruto and Sasuke individually can beat low to mid tier juubi jins (Juubi Jin Obito, 1 eyed Juubi Jin Madara) then how is this very thing possible?

Some even believe both individually are stronger than 3 eyed Madara. Does this mean that half of hagos chakra is greater than the juubis? Because I expect a juubis host, even someone with a weaker Juubi like Obito to be nearing Hagos power himself logically.

 

[Bimbonium]

Kamui restrictions made juubi Jin Obito weak, and one eyed Madara's only move worthy of note was Limbo which became "counterable" with the sage's chakra.
So I'd say the losses of one eyed Madara and Obito was due to their fighting styles and not because Naruto and Sasuke were stronger.

 

[TaxiMan]

Kamui restrictions made juubi Jin Obito weak, and one eyed Madara's only move worthy of note was Limbo which became "counterable" with the sage's chakra.
So I'd say the loses of one eyed Madara and Obito was due to their fighting styles and not because Naruto and Sasuke were stronger.

I understand what you're saying since that is the "manga" explaination, but even with Obitos eye being restricted, that still gives him access to Rinnegan abilities + a strong juubis jin body. Essentially what you should have gotten out of Obito would be a stronger Naruto (since he has larger portions of bijuu chakra + gedo Mazo) with rinnegan abilities, which should put him above Naruto logically speaking, but that's not the opinion of most people.

As for Madara, he should have straight out have been stronger than both due to possesing the near complete juubi so what applied to Obito would apply to him + his rinnegan is his own + with the near complete Juubi. It should have been a rofl stomp.

 

[VongolaX]

Obito lost due to bijuu connections. If that never existed then the series would of ended right there.
Because he had the rsm and the rinnegan, the only thing that sets him greatly above his rinnegan form is the RSM that gave him the body of the sage, take that away (bijuu extraction) and he's done.

Madara was mostly focused on getting his eyes back so he can achieve full power.

You also need to remember that Obito and Madara need the NV alive to cast their genjustu, so they're not out to kill.

 

[EKSITE]

Obito was horrible nerfed and trolled that fight how wasn't he able to use Kamui because of the juubi being inside him but Madara could lmao.

TROLL OF THE SERIES LMAO

 

[Gerkak]

Obito lost due to bijuu connections. If that never existed then the series would of ended right there.
Because he had the rsm and the rinnegan, the only thing that sets him greatly above his rinnegan form is the RSM that gave him the body of the sage, take that away (bijuu extraction) and he's done.

Madara was mostly focused on getting his eyes back so he can achieve full power.

You also need to remember that Obito and Madara need the NV alive to cast their genjustu, so they're not out to kill.

Still BS

Obito and madara could just kill the ninja and cast the genjutsu on the civilians that are left.

 

[TaxiMan]

Obito lost due to bijuu connections. If that never existed then the series would of ended right there.
Because he had the rsm and the rinnegan, the only thing that sets him greatly above his rinnegan form is the RSM that gave him the body of the sage, take that away (bijuu extraction) and he's done.

Madara was mostly focused on getting his eyes back so he can achieve full power.

You also need to remember that Obito and Madara need the NV alive to cast their genjustu, so they're not out to kill.

That's very true of the bijuu connection thing.

If that's the case then why is it highly regarded by many people that Naruto and Sasuke are above these juubi jins then? I too somewhat believed that until I saw the Boruto movie they looked to me to be in the tier of Rinnegan Madara/ Hashirama. Very strong, but they looked as I said in an earlier thread, very human.

 

[Bimbonium]

I understand what you're saying since that is the "manga" explaination, but even with Obitos eye being restricted, that still gives him access to Rinnegan abilities + a strong juubis jin body. Essentially what you should have gotten out of Obito would be a stronger Naruto (since he has larger portions of bijuu chakra + gedo Mazo) with rinnegan abilities, which should put him above Naruto logically speaking, but that's not the opinion of most people.

As for Madara, he should have straight out have been stronger than both due to possesing the near complete juubi so what applied to Obito would apply to him + his rinnegan is his own + with the near complete Juubi. It should have been a rofl stomp.

It's plot induced nerf. They both had access to a couple of jutsus that were never used.
As for Madara he awakened his rinnegan at a late age I'll guess he never learnt to use the paths.

 

[Gerkak]

It's plot induced nerf. They both had access to a couple of jutsus that were never used.
As for Madara he awakened his rinnegan at a late age I'll guess he never learnt to use the paths.

Nah madara himself said he would teach obito the rikudo no jutsu meaning he must have known them

Obito told kabuto he could use human path and also agreed with kakashi's assessment of him being able to use the six paths technique

 

[VongolaX]

That's very true of the bijuu connection thing.

If that's the case then why is it highly regarded by many people that Naruto and Sasuke are above these juubi jins then? I too somewhat believed that until I saw the Boruto movie they looked to me to be in the tier of Rinnegan Madara/ Hashirama. Very strong, but they looked as I said in an earlier thread, very human.

I mean naturally a juubi jinchuuriki is suppose to be higher, regardless of who is the juubi jinchuuriki. But people will base their opinions on how the juubi jinchuuriki lost and gauge their powers there without taking into account all the other factors.

I agree with you that they are on Rinnegan Madara type level (Hashirama can't compete on their level).

You enjoying that McGregor win huh?

 

[TaxiMan]

It's plot induced nerf. They both had access to a couple of jutsus that were never used.
As for Madara he awakened his rinnegan at a late age I'll guess he never learnt to use the paths.

Indeed they got nerfed, but believe me Madara is probably the best rinnegan user in the manga. He taught Obito the rinnegan jutsu's who then taught it to Nagato.

I mean naturally a juubi jinchuuriki is suppose to be higher, regardless of who is the juubi jinchuuriki. But people will base their opinions on how the juubi jinchuuriki lost and gauge their powers there without taking into account all the other factors.

I agree with you that they are on Rinnegan Madara type level (Hashirama can't compete on their level).

You enjoying that McGregor win huh?

You are right, essentially most people are followers.

Lol I only mentioned Hashirama out of respect, Madara is above him with Sm and Rinnegan, but I suppose one can argue that Rinnegan sm Madara is at the top of the tier, while Rinnegan/MS Obito is the middle, and Hashirama is at the lower end, or just the highest in the next tier below that.

Of course We're not here to take part, but to take over! 13 seconds was insane man.

 

[VongolaX]

Indeed they got nerfed, but believe me Madara is probably the best rinnegan user in the manga. He taught Obito the rinnegan jutsu's who then taught it to Nagato.


You are right, essentially most people are followers.

Lol I only mentioned Hashirama out of respect, Madara is above him with Sm and Rinnegan, but I suppose one can argue that Rinnegan sm Madara is at the top of the tier, while Rinnegan/MS Obito is the middle, and Hashirama is at the lower end, or just the highest in the next tier below that.

Of course We're not here to take part, but to take over! 13 seconds was insane man.

Yeah, the way I see it with the rikudou people are

juubi jinchuurikis
juubi
Rinnegan Madara (with the little sagemode he took)
Rinnegan Sasuke with Gedo Susanoo
Rinnegan Madara/Sasuke and Rsm Naruto
Rinnegan Obito

He predicted that fight word for word and beat the breaks off Aldo. But I think Frankie gives Conor a real fight.

 

[NarutoX28]

Obito was horrible nerfed and trolled that fight how wasn't he able to use Kamui because of the juubi being inside him but Madara could lmao.

TROLL OF THE SERIES LMAO

It was only stated that he couldn't phase as a Juubi Jin, not that he couldn't warp.

 

[Angelic.]

obito was the practice run
madara was close to getting rekt by their skillz

 

[Gerkak]

It was only stated that he couldn't phase as a Juubi Jin, not that he couldn't warp.

That was still BS no exlanation was given on why he couldn't phase. Besides kamui phasing and kamui warp are

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[NarutoX28]

That was still BS no exlanation was given on why he couldn't phase. Besides kamui phasing and kamui warp are

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The reasoning behind it being the same technique is the fact that both were S/T ninjutsu that were connected to the same dimension and he at the same time didn't recognize this. This makes sense considering:

1. Kakashi's Kamui was countered by Obito's Kamui (which utilized the warping mechanic) which made Kakashi questioned if Obito's Kamui Warp was connected to Kakashi's Kamui in some particular way:

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It was at that moment that Kakashi acknowledged that Obito's Kamui Warp was connected to Kakashi's.

2.

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Here, he ponders on how his Kunai landed on Obito despite the Kunai being warped to an entirely different dimension in which he formed his hypothesis that his phasing technique and his warping technique is connected in some way.

3. And with your scan, Kakashi admits that he believed they were entirely different jutsu and that makes sense considering his phasing technique made Obito appear to be transparent, but Kakashi confirms that they're the same jutsu because they're connected to the same dimension, but that doesn't mean they're entirely the same as they have completely different mechanics (somewhat).

One has his Juubi body overlapping with another dimension which means his body is in 2 dimensions simultaneously whereas the other body simply has him warping to another dimension with his body only being present in one dimension at a time.

Of course, I still think it's stupid and Kishi should've still explained that part.

 

[VongolaX]

Still BS

Obito and madara could just kill the ninja and cast the genjutsu on the civilians that are left.

Obito told Naruto and Kakashi that he'll be in the dream world too. So it's a matter of want than need.

 

[Gerkak]

The reasoning behind it being the same technique is the fact that both were S/T ninjutsu that were connected to the same dimension and he at the same time didn't recognize this. This makes sense considering:

1. Kakashi's Kamui was countered by Obito's Kamui (which utilized the warping mechanic) which made Kakashi questioned if Obito's Kamui Warp was connected to Kakashi's Kamui in some particular way:

You must be registered for see links

It was at that moment that Kakashi acknowledged that Obito's Kamui Warp was connected to Kakashi's.

2.

You must be registered for see links

Here, he ponders on how his Kunai landed on Obito despite the Kunai being warped to an entirely different dimension in which he formed his hypothesis that his phasing technique and his warping technique is connected in some way.

3. And with your scan, Kakashi admits that he believed they were entirely different jutsu and that makes sense considering his phasing technique made Obito appear to be transparent, but Kakashi confirms that they're the same jutsu because they're connected to the same dimension, but that doesn't mean they're entirely the same as they have completely different mechanics (somewhat).

One has his Juubi body overlapping with another dimension which means his body is in 2 dimensions simultaneously whereas the other body simply has him warping to another dimension with his body only being present in one dimension at a time.

Of course, I still think it's stupid and Kishi should've still explained that part.

I understand the mechanics of kamui it is as I said both are the same technique used to achieve different outcomes. Like you said it's stupid still.

Obito told Naruto and Kakashi that he'll be in the dream world too. So it's a matter of want than need.

Yeah still BS why keep the threats to something you planned for years alive, when they aren't even necessary for the plan to work?

 

[NarutoX28]

I understand the mechanics of kamui it is as I said both are the same technique used to achieve different outcomes. Like you said it's stupid still.

It's possible that because it was Kakashi's Kamui that he was able to warp considering Kakashi's Mangekyo is an entirely different eye which means it sprouts a different power.

But then again, I think Kishimoto was inconsistent as the way Madara warped seemed as if he was using Obito's Mangekyo.

But yeah, it's overall just utter BS.

 

[Angelic.]

It's possible that because it was Kakashi's Kamui that he was able to warp considering Kakashi's Mangekyo is an entirely different eye which means it sprouts a different power.

But then again, I think Kishimoto was inconsistent as the way Madara warped seemed as if he was using Obito's Mangekyo.

But yeah, it's overall just utter BS.

kakash can warp himself too