Is Kabuto on par with Hashirama as of Chapter 520, with Edos and prep?

[NarutoX28]

What's stopping a Structure that dwarfs Madara's PS from absolutely demolishing Kabuto and his ET army?

 

[VongolaX]

So pray tell, what's stopping a giant forest world genjutsu from one-shotting them?

You mean the same one that sm naruto shadow clone was able to demolish?

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Let's not forget that these are edo tenseis here, there body is eternal until released.

And that genjustu world didn't work so well against old Hiruzen, did it?

We have edo tenseis that are sensors too.

 

[Denzel Washington]

You mean the same one that sm naruto shadow clone was able to demolish?

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Let's not forget that these are edo tenseis here, there body is eternal until released.

And that genjustu world didn't work so well against old Hiruzen, did it?

We have edo tenseis that are sensors too.

Uh, no. I'm reffering to this.

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Hashirama throws one of these up, and it's over for everyone within the vicinity. All Hashi has to do is apply pressure after casting it.

 

[VongolaX]

Uh, no. I'm reffering to this.

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Hashirama throws one of these up, and it's over for everyone within the vicinity. All Hashi has to do is apply pressure after casting it.

Uhm nothing. Again, these are edo tenseis.

Muu can get ride of the pollen:

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Even EMS Madara was able to bypass this jutsu just fine off panel.

And like Madara told the 5 kages, they worried too much about the flowers:

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Flying over it is just fine. And you think that this jutsu will do anything to edo Madara?

This is edo madara, akatsuki, and edo kages.

Edo madara negs this jutsu

Pain's shrina tensei Lol blows this jutsu apart

and Deidara's C3 is more than enough to obliterate this jutsu with edo bodies around.

I think you have a hard time understanding the situation. These edo bodies fight all at once, not one at a time.

 

[Denzel Washington]

Uhm nothing. Again, these are edo tenseis.

Muu can get ride of the pollen:

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Even EMS Madara was able to bypass this jutsu just fine off panel.

And like Madara told the 5 kages, they worried too much about the flowers:

Spoiler

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Flying over it is just fine. And you think that this jutsu will do anything to edo Madara?

This is edo madara, akatsuki, and edo kages.

Edo madara negs this jutsu

Pain's shrina tensei Lol blows this jutsu apart

and Deidara's C3 is more than enough to obliterate this jutsu with edo bodies around.

I think you have a hard time understanding the situation. These edo bodies fight all at once, not one at a time.

Madara wasn't discounting the Genjutsu's power there, his comment was tounge-in-cheek. He was teasing that they shouldn't worry about the massive Forst Genjutsu, because he is the real threat and they should focus on him.

I'm confused about your statement. Kabuto's edos can fly? Last I checked, only Muu and Deidara could. And if Hashirama casts this Genjutsu right on top of them, chances are they aren't going to start holding their breath. Why would they?

Edo Madara isn't in Kabuto's arsenal, since Kabuto was never in control of him.

I see literally no reason Hashi can't cast this Genjutsu then follow it up with a nice Buddha Statue to obliterate any leftover stragglers that somehow escape.

 

[VongolaX]

Madara wasn't discounting the Genjutsu's power there, his comment was tounge-in-cheek. He was teasing that they shouldn't worry about the massive Forst Genjutsu, because he is the real threat and they should focus on him.

Exactly.

I'm confused about your statement. Kabuto's edos can fly? Last I checked, only Muu and Deidara could. And if Hashirama casts this Genjutsu right on top of them, chances are they aren't going to start holding their breath. Why would they?

Uhm, Yes? Did you forget that Tsuchikage and Muu have the ability to make other people fly?

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Why would they hold their breaths? They're edo tenseis. Dead bodies. who's breathing with dead bodies?
Genjustu is not covering the whole entire world, Hiruzen already negged the bringer of darkness.

Edo Madara isn't in Kabuto's arsenal, since Kabuto was never in control of him.

Uhm, yes he is. He summoned him. Madara broke control once Itachi deactivated edo tensei.
Like Orochimaru, dsm kabuto is covered in Hashirama cells.

I see literally no reason Hashi can't cast this Genjutsu then follow it up with a nice Buddha Statue to obliterate any leftover stragglers that somehow escape.

I literally see no reason why the edo tensei should just sit there and do nothing while the buddah is pummeling away.
What is the buddah going to do to a bunch of dead edo bodies made up of leftovers?

While buddah pummels away and loses all its arms, the edo tensei will just regenerate again.

It's as useless as sending the buddah against kamui.

^^ Just so you know, Hashirama can't spam all these jutsus, he has his limits just like when he fought EMS Madara.

 

[Denzel Washington]

Exactly.



Uhm, Yes? Did you forget that Tsuchikage and Muu have the ability to make other people fly?

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Why would they hold their breaths? They're edo tenseis. Dead bodies. who's breathing with dead bodies?
Genjustu is not covering the whole entire world, Hiruzen already negged the bringer of darkness.



Uhm, yes he is. He summoned him. Madara broke control once Itachi deactivated edo tensei.
Like Orochimaru, dsm kabuto is covered in Hashirama cells.



I literally see no reason why the edo tensei should just sit there and do nothing while the buddah is pummeling away.
What is the buddah going to do to a bunch of dead edo bodies made up of leftovers?

While buddah pummels away and loses all its arms, the edo tensei will just regenerate again.

It's as useless as sending the buddah against kamui.

^^ Just so you know, Hashirama can't spam all these jutsus, he has his limits just like when he fought EMS Madara.

Exactly... What? You were wrong.

Great! So when Hashi creates a massive Genjutsu forest on top of them in an instant, he'll go to each of them individually and give them the ability to fly, as well as explain it. /s. Think before you speak.

Madara was literally never under Kabuto's control. Every action Madara took was under his own power. Supply scans of Kabuto controlling Madara.

Edo Tenseis need to breath. Look at any fire technique Madara uses.

Wrong, pummeling an Edo Tensei causes them to be stationary while they regen. With everyone else caught under Hashi's Genjutsu, he'll have ample time to seal any stragglers that his Buddha demolishes.

Bringer of Darkness is not the Genjutsu I'm talking about, I have no idea why you keep bringing that up. Stay on topic.

 

[VongolaX]

Exactly... What? You were wrong.

Wrong about what? The trees are doing nothing

Great! So when Hashi creates a massive Genjutsu forest on top of them in an instant, he'll go to each of them individually and give them the ability to fly, as well as explain it. /s. Think before you speak.

Great What? who says Muu has to give flight abilities to the edo tensei after the genjustu? He can do it before.
Let's not forget Muu is a sensor, it's not hard to find the edo tensei chakra if you're a sensor. An invisible one at that too. Think before you post, nobody is speaking here.

Madara was literally never under Kabuto's control. Every action Madara took was under his own power. Supply scans of Kabuto controlling Madara.

Great, you have an opinion. Now here's the facts:

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First one was an order and the second one shown the order being carried out.

Edo Tenseis need to breath. Look at any fire technique Madara uses.

Edo tensei does not need to breath. Looking at madara's fire technique is just chakra expelling from the mouth. You don't breath when mud wall or suiton is being expelled from your mouth. It's just chakra. You don't use air to make a jutsu.

Wrong, pummeling an Edo Tensei causes them to be stationary while they regen. With everyone else caught under Hashi's Genjutsu, he'll have ample time to seal any stragglers that his Buddha demolishes.

Wrong, edo tensei do not remain stationary when they regenerate:

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And Hashirama doesn't have a seal to trap edo tenseis nor does he have the speed to do all of them at once.

Bringer of Darkness is not the Genjutsu I'm talking about, I have no idea why you keep bringing that up. Stay on topic.

Bringer of Darkness is the only genjustu Hashirama has, so it is on topic. Keep of the fan-fiction

 

[The Demon Hawk]

No, the only zombie that makes a difference is Edo Madara, and Hashirama already defeated him in canon, not to mention that it wasn't even full-powered, alive Hashirama. DSM Kabuto himself is crushed in Jukai Coutan.

Just because Edo Hashirama defeated Edo Madara in canon doesn't make him officially stronger neither does it mean he can always defeat him. That fight was inconclusive at best IMO.

He could be stronger or not, but that fight is no evidence for that.

 

[Beans2]

Hashirama stomps.

High threat level:

No one.

Medium threat level:

Edo Madara:

-Hashirama defeated him in canon.
-Mokujin=PS in canon.
-Shinsuusenju>>>PS. In canon.
-Shinra Tensei is doing nothing to SS considering the barrage will just continue after ST is used, or even just plain out power through it.
-Meteors and Chibaku Tensei are countered with Jukai Koutan.
-Genjutsu is not a factor otherwise it would have been in either of their canon battles.
-Wood dragon counters Preta Path.
-Madara's mokuton is horribly outclassed.

Low threat level:

Deidara:

-Only relevant threat is C0, but Hobi or quintuple Rashomon tanks that easy.
-C4 nano bombs are sensed and evaded the same way Sasuke did by a guy who crosses mountain ranges when running.

Nagato:

-Is an inferior Madara. Nothing in his moveset can contribute to this battle.

Muu:

-Wood clones and mayfly make Jinton a useless tactic.
-Muu with his sword can't do shit in front of SM durability.
-Hashirama senses his chakra immediately when he becomes visible, so he just drops Deity Gates on him to pin him down.

Itachi:

-Basically an inferior Madara. Mokujin pulverizes his Susanoo.

Gengetsu:

-Jukai Koutan alone would reveal the location of the clam, and from there Hashirama easily crushes it.

Kabuto:

-White Rage is not working at the range Hashirama will be fighting from.
-Manda 2 is pinned down with deity gates then gets its chakra sucked up with Mokuryu.
-Flute genjutsu is overrated as hell.

 

[Demonic.]

Just because Edo Hashirama defeated Edo Madara in canon doesn't make him officially stronger neither does it mean he can always defeat him. That fight was inconclusive at best IMO.

He could be stronger or not, but that fight is no evidence for that.

Pretty much....I don't believe Edo Hashirama can use Shinsuusenju so they should be on par at their strongest.

 

[Nick01]

Without Madara, Hashi wins mid to high diff.

 

[Denzel Washington]

Wrong about what? The trees are doing nothing



Great What? who says Muu has to give flight abilities to the edo tensei after the genjustu? He can do it before.
Let's not forget Muu is a sensor, it's not hard to find the edo tensei chakra if you're a sensor. An invisible one at that too. Think before you post, nobody is speaking here.


Great, you have an opinion. Now here's the facts:

Spoiler

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First one was an order and the second one shown the order being carried out.



Edo tensei does not need to breath. Looking at madara's fire technique is just chakra expelling from the mouth. You don't breath when mud wall or suiton is being expelled from your mouth. It's just chakra. You don't use air to make a jutsu.



Wrong, edo tensei do not remain stationary when they regenerate:

Spoiler

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And Hashirama doesn't have a seal to trap edo tenseis nor does he have the speed to do all of them at once.



Bringer of Darkness is the only genjustu Hashirama has, so it is on topic. Keep of the fan-fiction

Why would Muu give everybody flight abilities?

Why don't you quote the exact order for me? Because neither of those scans showed Kabuto controlling Madara at any point.

Edos do breath, when Madar is casting a fire jutsu he literally inhales. Are you saying he doesn't? Please, make my day.

Oh, you mean Tobirama, creator and master of the Edo Tensei? Way to cherry pick, go choose one of the other dozens instances from the war where the regenerating Edos are stationary.

Hashirama doesn't have seals? Are you high, or just ignorant?

"Hashirama's only genjutsu is Bringer of Darkness"

^ That is 100% false and pretty much proves you don't jnow what you're talking about.

Here's an idea;

Go create this battle in the VS section, with a poll. Unless, of course, you already know that Hashirama will dominate the polls?

 

[Ambivalence]

Just because Edo Hashirama defeated Edo Madara in canon doesn't make him officially stronger neither does it mean he can always defeat him. That fight was inconclusive at best IMO.

He could be stronger or not, but that fight is no evidence for that.

Lmao, as if. It was already shown Madara using his strongest technique, which is PS, to battle Hashirama. Mokujin stalemated it, and Madara himself got pinned and defeated. All other techniques which he could've used (because I know that argument is coming) would've been countered by Hashirama, Beans already made it more detailed. There was no way Madara could've won that fight with his power at that time.

And then there's the fact that it wasn't even Alive Hashirama fighting, who'd be stronger than Edo Hashirama, nor did he use SS. And this is Alive Hashirama we're talking about in this thread. Kabuto gets mid-diffed.

 

[baul 24]

wow even kabuto manages to summon the dead we are talking about a shinobi who is able to control multiple tailed beasts this guy is a demi god, dude when we r talking about what if scenario where kabuto fights hashirama is only when hashirama is back as an edo and break out of its control and fight against kabuto. A demigod (Hashirama) with unlimited chakra and undying body with haxxed abilities damn he will destroy kabuto and all of his zombies

 

[The Demon Hawk]

Lmao, as if. It was already shown Madara using his strongest technique, which is PS, to battle Hashirama. Mokujin stalemated it, and Madara himself got pinned and defeated. All other techniques which he could've used (because I know that argument is coming) would've been countered by Hashirama, Beans already made it more detailed. There was no way Madara could've won that fight with his power at that time.

And then there's the fact that it wasn't even Alive Hashirama fighting, who'd be stronger than Edo Hashirama, nor did he use SS. And this is Alive Hashirama we're talking about in this thread. Kabuto gets mid-diffed.

As I already said, the fight was inconclusive. Hashirama winning the fight does not prove that he is stronger than Madara. Victor =/= stronger. Hashirama pinned down and defeated Madara by chance, not by greater power or any advantage against him. Madara could have done the same thing to Hashirama, he could also use Wood Dragon to bind Hashirama in the same way.

Edo Hashirama was at best equal to Edo Madara. Hashirama's SM power was matched by Rinnegan Madara's increased chakra potency. Hashirama couldn't use Shinsuusenju (his trump card against Madara), so his maximum power is SM Mokujin, which was an even match for Madara's PS, which was his strongest power at that time. Similarly, Madara couldn't use Chibaku Tensei and Mokujin either his trump cards against Hashirama). And the rest of his Rinnegan techniques are too weak against Hashirama to make any difference.

So I don't see any way how Edo Hashirama was superior to Edo Madara. And since we're discussing Edo Hashirama vs Edo Madara, alive Hashirama is irrelevant. I'm not engaging myself in the "Hashirama vs Kabuto" debate.

 

[Kushina san]

No, edo tensei is not 1vs1. So, Kabuto is not on par with Hashi.

Edo Madara is superior to Hashirama, so Kabuto > Hashirama.

Not really.

 

[chopstickchakra]

I just don't get the point of including edo tensei in a 1 v 1. Hashi could kill Kabuto, and the edos stick around anyways. All he has to do is summon an army, and wear Hashi out. That's the lamest "1 v 1" imaginable.

Isn't that what Naruto does to stronger enemies with his shadow clones in a sense?

 

[VongolaX]

Why would Muu give everybody flight abilities?

The same reason why Hashirama would use flower tree world in the first place. Don't ask rhetorical questions.

Why don't you quote the exact order for me? Because neither of those scans showed Kabuto controlling Madara at any point.

Kabuto literally just told Madara to show him the power of the six paths, what's hard for you to understand?
Even Madara said that the only risk to this jutsu is that if you release the summoning contract, you cannot be controlled:

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It took from this point for Madara to release from Kabuto's control, even the databook covers this.

He was controlling him the whole time before then:

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Edos do breath, when Madar is casting a fire jutsu he literally inhales. Are you saying he doesn't? Please, make my day.

1. Edo tensei's do not breath, they're dead already.


2.BOLD: I hope you are not serious.
Madara can now inhale fire?

Oh, you mean Tobirama, creator and master of the Edo Tensei? Way to cherry pick, go choose one of the other dozens instances from the war where the regenerating Edos are stationary.

That doesn't make a difference, he's still a edo tensei. Even Hashirama was moving right beside him.
there is no cherry picking here, you're just full of excuses. Why don't you use the manga to back up your claim next time.

Hashirama doesn't have seals? Are you high, or just ignorant?

Great god gates is not sealing any edo tensei. So you're just wanking the sh*t out of hashirama or just ignorant.

"

Hashirama's only genjutsu is Bringer of Darkness"

^ That is 100% false and pretty much proves you don't jnow what you're talking about.

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That's the only genjustu he has. He doesn't have any other and he's shown no other genjustu.

Here's an idea;

Go create this battle in the VS section, with a poll. Unless, of course, you already know that Hashirama will dominate the polls?

Is that your retort now?

Using massive hashirama fanboys in the vs section to judge their bias opinion of a hashirama fight?

I'm not setting up a poll in a section that is stupid enough to believe that Hashirama can beat Rinnegan madara or a juubi jinchuuriki.

 

[Denzel Washington]

The same reason why Hashirama would use flower tree world in the first place. Don't ask rhetorical questions.



Kabuto literally just told Madara to show him the power of the six paths, what's hard for you to understand?
Even Madara said that the only risk to this jutsu is that if you release the summoning contract, you cannot be controlled:

Spoiler

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It took from this point for Madara to release from Kabuto's control, even the databook covers this.

He was controlling him the whole time before then:

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[/IMG]


1. Edo tensei's do not breath, they're dead already.


2.BOLD: I hope you are not serious.
Madara can now inhale fire?


That doesn't make a difference, he's still a edo tensei. Even Hashirama was moving right beside him.
there is no cherry picking here, you're just full of excuses. Why don't you use the manga to back up your claim next time.




Great god gates is not sealing any edo tensei. So you're just wanking the sh*t out of hashirama or just ignorant.

"

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That's the only genjustu he has. He doesn't have any other and he's shown no other genjustu.



Is that your retort now?

Using massive hashirama fanboys in the vs section to judge their bias opinion of a hashirama fight?

I'm not setting up a poll in a section that is stupid enough to believe that Hashirama can beat Rinnegan madara or a juubi jinchuuriki.

I'm on mobile so itms hard to craft a really great agrument and be articulate.

Why don't you respond to Beansv2 or the other guy in this thread? Their views pretty much exactly reflect mine, and I'm sure you'd love to have a healthy debate with them.