How this perfect jinchuuriki was controlled

[VongolaX]

So I figured out how a simple three tomoe is able to control a Kage level perfect jinchuuriki like Yagura:

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It seems impossible that a 3 tomoe can control a perfect jinchuuriki and a mizukage at that, especially when we've seen both MS Sasuke and Edo Itachi put a perfect jinchuuriki bee in a genjustu only to get broken a few moments later.

Then I remembered later what Madara told Obito in the cave:

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By borrowing power from the Mazou, he can create whatever he wants and can control them in his genjustu.
The only possible way to control somebody for that long is by using the power of the statue.

Using the power of gedo to control others movements, Obito's shown a more powerful version of this in the war:

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As soon as he puts a chain around the five tails neck, a sharingan appears and completely immobilize the beast by reverting him back to normal keeping him stationary by his side.

Using the Gedo mazou's rods he can control the beast and the movement of the host (yagura). These rods are known for controlling people's movements after all. Blind Madara can vouch for this:

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Obito himself was controlled by Madara through these twice.

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So Obito drawing power from the Mazou was able to control Yagura with a chakra receiver/black rod inserted into his body. Making the beast and Yagura completely useless to resist.
Gedo power control movements and suppress bijuu power.

 

[lelerskates]

Except Obito had MS from the moment he saw rin die which was before Yagura was a Jin so he used his MS and not 3T.

 

[The Necromancer]

Possibly.

It's also possible that Yagura simply WASN'T a perfect Jin, as Danzo said he might have been, and Yagura was never mentioned by Bee at the Falls of Truth where all Perfect Jins train.

 

[VongolaX]

Except Obito had MS from the moment he saw rin die which was before Yagura was a Jin so he used his MS and not 3T.

The scan showed 3 tomoe not MS, even then MS can't control a perfect jinchuuriki.

Viz translation confimred 100% that he was.

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Also not being a perfect jinchuuri=/=Being a kage if you think about it. That just spells disaster.

 

[Skull Knight]

Yagura scan proves Obito was a skillful genjutsu user.
He manipulated a perfect Jin with his sharingan. I don't know How he lost this feat ?
About the gedo mazou thing I doubt because Toneri put Naruto in a genjutsu without Gedo Mazou.

 

[VongolaX]

Yagura scan proves Obito was a skillful genjutsu user.
He manipulated a perfect Jin with his sharingan. I don't know How he lost this feat ?
About the gedo mazou thing I doubt because Toneri put Naruto in a genjutsu without Gedo Mazou.

Didn't Kurama snap him out of it?

 

[Angelic.]

i i dont think he was perfect like naruto.. and obito cant summon the mazou only nagato can unless he dragged it with him into kamui to kiri lol

its something i wish was in the manga or filler grr

 

[Skull Knight]

Didn't Kurama snap him out of it?

If I remember properly it was Sakura who broke the genjutsu.
And if Obito used Gedo Mazou to manipulate/control Yagura then why didn't he showed this feat in war arc(when Obito was fighting against Kakashi-Gai-naruto)?

obito cant summon the mazou only nagato can

Totally forgot about this^
he can't summon Gedo Mazou without Rinnegan.

 

[VongolaX]

If I remember properly it was Sakura who broke the genjutsu.
And if Obito used Gedo Mazou to manipulate/control Yagura then why didn't he showed this feat in war arc(when Obito was fighting against Kakashi-Gai-naruto)?
And yes he can't summon Gedo Mazou without Rinnegan.

I'll go back and check the movie.
Obito couldn't control all seven bijuus while using their powers easily (that's why the five tails went wild). Kakashi noted this in the war, so the best he could do was use Kamui stakes to suppress (bijuu) Hachibi's chakra.

Obito doesn't need the rinnegan to use Gedo mazou:

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He can draw power from the statue through the rods if he needed to.

 

[Meekz89]

It was only assumed that Yagura was a perfect jinchuriki, never proven. Did you ever think that it was because of Obito that people thought he was special.

 

[VongolaX]

It was only assumed that Yagura was a perfect jinchuriki, never proven. Did you ever think that it was because of Obito that people thought he was special.

My second post shows the Viz scan of Danzo confirming that he had perfect control. There's nothing special about a three tomoe genjustu.
If someone of Itachi's caliber can't keep a perfect jinchuuriki in a genjustu for an extended period of time, then surely Obito shouldn't be able to as well.

 

[Skull Knight]

I'll go back and check the movie.
Obito couldn't control all seven bijuus while using their powers easily (that's why the five tails went wild). Kakashi noted this in the war, so the best he could do was use Kamui stakes to suppress (bijuu) Hachibi's chakra.

Obito doesn't need the rinnegan to use Gedo mazou:

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He can draw power from the statue through the rods if he needed to.

I think it was Madara's sharingan,Obito used to control/manipulate Yagura.
This explains why he didnot used this power in war arc against Naruto because he lost the sharingan against Konan.
Still it can't be proved whether Obito used Gedo Mazou power or Madara's sharingan to control Yagura.

 

[Meekz89]

My second post shows the Viz scan of Danzo confirming that he had perfect control. There's nothing special about a three tomoe genjustu.
If someone of Itachi's caliber can't keep a perfect jinchuuriki in a genjustu for an extended period of time, then surely Obito shouldn't be able to as well.

Kisame was the only person who knew Obito was controlling Yagura. Yagura was Minato's era, around that time Obito was pulling the strings.

 

[Angelic.]

Kisame was the only person who knew Obito was controlling Yagura. Yagura was Minato's era, around that time Obito was pulling the strings.

im pretty sure his db4 said he had perfect control, not including obito. itsa bit vague.who knows

 

[VongolaX]

I think it was Madara's sharingan,Obito used to control/manipulate Yagura.
This explains why he didnot used this power in war arc against Naruto because he lost the sharingan against Konan.
Still it can't be proved whether Obito used Gedo Mazou power or Madara's sharingan to control Yagura.

He never lost his right eye:

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^^ You can see here that his right eye was the only one being shown. I don't think Obito got another eye until after the Uchiha massacre.

Kisame was the only person who knew Obito was controlling Yagura. Yagura was Minato's era, around that time Obito was pulling the strings.

Yes I agree. So what am I not seeing here?

 

[Skull Knight]

He never lost his right eye:

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^^ You can see here that his right eye was the only one being shown. I don't think Obito got another eye until after the Uchiha

Not talking about the right eye. I m talking about his left eye which he use to hide under his mask.
I think he took Madara's eye when Madara died in that cave.

 

[VongolaX]

Not talking about the right eye. I m talking about his left eye which he use to hide under his mask.
I think he took Madara's eye when Madara died in that cave.

That's a possibility, it's also a three tomoe too.

 

[Nick01]

Good read.

 

[Floydical]

First of all, Yagura was not controlled by a 3-tomoe, he was controlled by Obito's MS. Your scan is from before Obito was revealed which is back when Kishi purposely never showed his MS in order to preserve the secret, but he still had it. There is at least one instance where Obito uses his phasing ability without his MS active, and that was to preserve his secret identity. So stating Obito controlled Yagura with 3 tomoe is not true because Kishi was known to hide it and Obito clearly had access to it.

Now in regard to the black rod and genjutsu control of Yagura, at one point in time I theorized myself that Yagura was controlled that way so I agree it was possible. However, you are only using short term paralysis genjutsu in your 'proof'. By this I mean that long term genjutsu or genjutsu used by a superior user could bypass the limitation Perfect jins have over it. Even if Yagura was a perfect jin, its possible that Bee was simply that much better than him.

Either way, the whole Yagura thing is a huge dilemma of plot consistency. Either it breaks the rule or perfect jins being immune to genjutsu or it creates another problem of both Obito and Madara being capable of Genjutsu on the level of Shisui's KA. Completely separately, it could be that the black rods did 90% of the manipulation and ceased the personal control, but that would utterly destroy the mangafact that Yagura was manipulated by the Sharingan. Quite the quandary, no?

 

[Your Creepy Stalker]

I have an easier explanation. Remember at the start of Shippuden when Sasuke entered Naruto's inner world? Well, Obito could have done that and put Isobu in a Genjutsu. Perfect Jin's are only "immune" to genjutsu because the Bijuu can break it for them.