[Discussion] Do you think Sanji could've handled Kaku easier then Zoro

[Dęvîa Puęrî]

If i remember correctly there was only a 20 dorkai difference between kaku and jabra...

zoro beat kaku extreme diff with asura


whereas sanji kind of high diffed jabra. literally he just almost one shotted jabra once he used diable jambe ... he couldve even used hells memories (there is no proof at this time that he had this but as zoro fanboys love to say sanji never trains so im assuming he had that) (and he literally uses it in thriller bark... which is couple of arcs ahead)

but yeah sanji high diffed jabra without using his strongest move whereas zoro used his strongest move to extreme diff kaku

so what do u guys think ?
could sanji just used hells memories against against jabra or kaku and literally one shotting them.. there for had easier time taking them out then zoro... u also have to count sanji is more mobile then zoro so he would have not gotten hit as much... etc

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[Banisher]

where did zoro beat him extreme diff?
He beat him mid-high diff, Zoro didn't even go allout, reread fight

 

[lelerskates]

lolololololol Had zoro used asure from the beginning he would have one shot Kaku. Sanji never was and never will be as strong or stronger than Zoro. Get that out of your fanboy head.

lololololllololololollololollol

 

[Dęvîa Puęrî]

lolololololol Had zoro used asure from the beginning he would have one shot Kaku. Sanji never was and never will be as strong or stronger than Zoro. Get that out of your fanboy head.

lololololllololololollololollol

when did i say sanji is stronger then zoro.... i mean the two were to fight ... sanji would not be able to put out enough damage to put zoro down and zoro cannonically cannot catch fast chars (pica who sanji is leagues faster than) without help (guy with king punch) so there for zoro will have hard time with sanji evading attacks etc.. but zoro should have some long ranged slashes etc.. so zoro should be able to win high diff against sanji

if u rewatch or read (at this point iwas watching didnt start reading till punk hazard) the fight kaku had major advantage because of his speed but sanji should be if not as fast but perhaps faster (wthout a doubt he is def faster tehn zoro)

also while i have no proof of it it seems zoro activates asura after receiving major damage as seen
when he says " extreme suffering, disire for nothing else, the way of the shura". it makes it seem as if he need to take the damage to dish it back ten fold etc.. which goes great with him cuz he is a tanky char

but ur missing the point i am asking could sanji have had an easier time against kaku? if he would have used hells memories etc?

also please do not insult me with the stupid fanboy shit... i am a fan of sanji he is one of my fav chars yes but also a fan of zoro, ur either delusional or mental if u do not think one char A can be a better match up Char C, despite char B being stronger then A but still having harder time against C...

 

[Dęvîa Puęrî]

where did zoro beat him extreme diff?
He beat him mid-high diff, Zoro didn't even go allout, reread fight

if u r required to ur strongest move (his still to this date bar what he did to pica) it was an extreme diff fight.. sanji didnot have to in his fight but zoro did...

also zoro is a tank so i think it be more interesting if sanji went against kaku he wouldve been pushed to use hells memories as zoro was pushed to use asura but unlike zoro sanji wouldnt jut stand there and get hit...

i like the zoro vs kaku fight because it was a battle against swordsman but still curious about that turn out... in fact i think sanji could have defeated kaku easier and zoro could have defeated jabra easier then what he had to do against kaku (i dont think he would have had to use asura)

this is when sanji and zoro were literally portrayed to be equally dangerous...

and u also have to realize sanji is more tactical then zoro in fighting..

 

[Venomous Cobra]

where did zoro beat him extreme diff?
He beat him mid-high diff, Zoro didn't even go allout, reread fight

Mid high what?bro, get that NDS shit outta here fam...



OT: Honestly, no. Kaku was using his swords with his legs and hands, zoro was normally the natural opponent for him to face.


Though DJ would have extreme diff'd kaku(DJ is able to melt steal, kaku's swords ain't different) sanji wouldn't have done it easier than zoro.

 

[KingHashirama]

Zoro beat him mid-diff

 

[Vandenre1ch]

Zoro would have an easier time against Jabra.

Sanji would have an easier time against Kaku.

Zoro beat Kaku high diff and was on the defensive the whole fight.

Sanji beat Jabra high diff and not was going back n' forth with him, Sanji beat Jabra quicker than Zoro beat Kaku and had less injuries. Kaku and Jabra are neck n' neck in strength too as well as Zoro n' Sanji.

 

[Panthalassa]

While they only had a 20 dorkai difference between them, they stated that this test does not measure their DF strength. And while they are close by in this battle prowess test, each individual battle capabilities are effective against different users.

Kaku was fast, and resilient. How would Sanji deal with the ricochet tiny rankyaku? Or the Kilimanjaru? These are highly sharp attacks and require a sword to block. Sanji is a blunt fighter, so while he can defend against someone weaker than him using sharp attacks, he can't defeat someone as strong as him ( or maybe stronger, if we go by Zoro > Sanji, and Kaku very evenly matched with Zoro ). There's an edge that Sanji's battle style isn't fit to play.

Also, this extreme dif battle wasn't actually like that. Zoro fell from the ceiling and then was restricted by Usopp. Zoro wasted more time fightning against Kaku because, throughout the majority of it, he was handicapped.. When we go to actual fight, Sanji and Zoro's battle lasted roughly the same, Sanji started later and Zoro wasn't really battling before that ( Usopp Sword, remember? ).

Also, while now Diable Jambe isn't Sanjis strongest attack, at that point it was. So both of them defeated their opponents with their new and strongest attacks. There's no point is saying that, at that time, Sanji could have used Hell's Memories to end the battle, because Hell's Memories are anger fueled techniques that Sanji has when he remembers Kamabakka Kingdom, and that hasn't happen.


I could make the argument that Zoro could have defeated Jabra, but Kaku's style was just impossible for Sanji.

 

[Love Cook]

Yes Kaku would be a better match for Sanji.

Jyabura was the only member of cp9 that could use tekkai while moving. This caused Sanji some trouble.

If you look at Kaku he fought in a more defensive style. He barely moved due to his size and at one point he even turned into a cube.

Sanji's agility would allow him to land way more hits than he could on Jyabura. And with Diable Jambe he would kick cube kaku out of the window.

 

[keshav31]

If i remember correctly there was only a 20 dorkai difference between kaku and jabra...

zoro beat kaku extreme diff with asura


whereas sanji kind of high diffed jabra. literally he just almost one shotted jabra once he used diable jambe ... he couldve even used hells memories (there is no proof at this time that he had this but as zoro fanboys love to say sanji never trains so im assuming he had that) (and he literally uses it in thriller bark... which is couple of arcs ahead)

but yeah sanji high diffed jabra without using his strongest move whereas zoro used his strongest move to extreme diff kaku

so what do u guys think ?
could sanji just used hells memories against against jabra or kaku and literally one shotting them.. there for had easier time taking them out then zoro... u also have to count sanji is more mobile then zoro so he would have not gotten hit as much... etc

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Well its zoro fight kaku because of their fighting style.Also kaku is more powerful then jabra not just in terms of power but skill of sword fight as well. Jabra style is like playing tricks before attack & sanji is perfect for him.

 

[KingHashirama]

Zoro would have an easier time against Jabra.

Sanji would have an easier time against Kaku.

Zoro beat Kaku high diff and was on the defensive the whole fight.

Sanji beat Jabra high diff and not was going back n' forth with him, Sanji beat Jabra quicker than Zoro beat Kaku and had less injuries. Kaku and Jabra are neck n' neck in strength too as well as Zoro n' Sanji.

@Bold, they were.

 

[A v i]

I can totally see Kaku winning against Sanji. Kaku by all means is much stronger and a much better fighter than Jyabra unlike what their doraki suggests.

 

[Love Cook]

I can totally see Kaku winning against Sanji. Kaku by all means is much stronger and a much better fighter than Jyabra unlike what their doraki suggests.

What a joke, you have nothing to back that up.

And the only measurement of strength given by the author you toss aside without any argumentation.

What about Jyabura is the only member of CP9 that can use tekkai while moving. That was only given to him because Sanji is an agile and fast attacker.

Kaku with his big body would be a sitting duck even before DJ is needed. And if Kaku goes into that cube defence a simple Diable Jambe would suffice to end it right there.

 

[A v i]

What a joke, you have nothing to back that up.

And the only measurement of strength given by the author you toss aside without any argumentation.

What about Jyabura is the only member of CP9 that can use tekkai while moving. That was only given to him because Sanji is an agile and fast attacker.

Kaku with his big body would be a sitting duck even before DJ is needed. And if Kaku goes into that cube defence a simple Diable Jambe would suffice to end it right there.

Why should I do that when the writer himself already trashed it by saying that doraki doesn't determine overall strength of a fighter? Irony is that the one who made that claim was Jyabra of all people. Oda gave mobile tekkai to Jyabra just to make him special similar to Kaku and Lucci as they're supposed to be top 3 fighters. Kaku is an all rounder. He's a master of Rokushiki, best swordsmanship in Cp9 and a brawler. Then we have Lucci who mastered something beyond Rokushiki. What is so special about Jyabra compared to other Cp9? Nothing so it's only logical to make Jyabra special by giving something different to him; that however doesn't single out him from M3 of Cp9.

An injured Sanji defeated Jyabra rather easily when Zoro who's supposed to be stronger than Sanji struggled a lot more than Sanji to put down Kaku. That alone should be more than enough for any rational reader to understand that Jyabra is nowhere near Kaku. Lets not talk about how Kaku's doraki is measured without taking his swordsmanship into account when his art of expertise lies in his swordsmanship.

 

[Love Cook]

Why should I do that when the writer himself already trashed it by saying that doraki doesn't determine overall strength of a fighter? Irony is that the one who made that claim was Jyabra of all people. Oda gave mobile tekkai to Jyabra just to make him special similar to Kaku and Lucci as they're supposed to be top 3 fighters. Kaku is an all rounder. He's a master of Rokushiki, best swordsmanship in Cp9 and a brawler. Then we have Lucci who mastered something beyond Rokushiki. What is so special about Jyabra compared to other Cp9? Nothing so it's only logical to make Jyabra special by giving something different to him; that however doesn't single out him from M3 of Cp9.

An injured Sanji defeated Jyabra rather easily when Zoro who's supposed to be stronger than Sanji struggled a lot more than Sanji to put down Kaku. That alone should be more than enough for any rational reader to understand that Jyabra is nowhere near Kaku. Lets not talk about how Kaku's doraki is measured without taking his swordsmanship into account when his art of expertise lies in his swordsmanship.

Or you could say that the gap between Sanji and Zoro isn't as big as you think that it is. After all their enemies are only 20 doroki apart.

Sanji's fast attacks would probably dealt with Kaku in the same speed as he did with Jyabura. Zoro was 90% of the fight on the defense, while Sanji chose to attack.

You say whats special about Kaku: Master of Rokushiki (Same goes for Jyabura and he has better tekkai), best swordsmanship (Jyabura has best martial arts) and a brawler (how is that a quality ?). Besides that Jyabura had better control over his fruit which makes him in the end a harder to beat opponent.

So the fact that Sanji used his head to beat a strong enemy and Zoro his muscles says more about the qualities of Sanji and Zoro to what extent they close the gap in power between them. Apparently Sanji doesn't need to be physically stronger in order to fight on the same level as Zoro.

 

[Vandenre1ch]

@Bold, they were.

What do you mean exactly? They were neck n' neck in strength in Enies Lobby. That much is clear. If Kaku somehow got way stronger than Jabra after eating DF(that leads to alot of contradictions mind you), please explain if you can.

-Base Lucci dokuri is 4000.
-Base Luffy is 4000 as he clashed evenly with Base Lucci
-Zoro is 4000 as his brute strength was said to be equal to Luffy is 2 databooks(using this since Zoro fans love databooks apparently).
-4000 Zoro overpowered Kaku in a clash of burte strength which means Kaku is weaker than Base Lucci, Base Luffy and has a less than 4000 dokuri.
-Kaku's dokuri went from 2200 to around 3700 or 3800.
-Jabra's dokuri? I'll let someone else say it and hopefully not give a blatantly bias number in order to make Kaku and Zoro look like gods.

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

Or you could say that the gap between Sanji and Zoro isn't as big as you think that it is. After all their enemies are only 20 doroki apart.

Sanji's fast attacks would probably dealt with Kaku in the same speed as he did with Jyabura. Zoro was 90% of the fight on the defense, while Sanji chose to attack.

You say whats special about Kaku: Master of Rokushiki (Same goes for Jyabura and he has better tekkai), best swordsmanship (Jyabura has best martial arts) and a brawler (how is that a quality ?). Besides that Jyabura had better control over his fruit which makes him in the end a harder to beat opponent.

So the fact that Sanji used his head to beat a strong enemy and Zoro his muscles says more about the qualities of Sanji and Zoro to what extent they close the gap in power between them. Apparently Sanji doesn't need to be physically stronger in order to fight on the same level as Zoro.

Kaku's DF was obviously better than Jyabura's DF.

 

[A v i]

Or you could say that the gap between Sanji and Zoro isn't as big as you think that it is. After all their enemies are only 20 doroki apart.

Sanji's fast attacks would probably dealt with Kaku in the same speed as he did with Jyabura. Zoro was 90% of the fight on the defense, while Sanji chose to attack.

You say whats special about Kaku: Master of Rokushiki (Same goes for Jyabura and he has better tekkai), best swordsmanship (Jyabura has best martial arts) and a brawler (how is that a quality ?). Besides that Jyabura had better control over his fruit which makes him in the end a harder to beat opponent.

So the fact that Sanji used his head to beat a strong enemy and Zoro his muscles says more about the qualities of Sanji and Zoro to what extent they close the gap in power between them. Apparently Sanji doesn't need to be physically stronger in order to fight on the same level as Zoro.

Why should I say that when the portrayal actually support the contrary. Zoro was on defense because his opponent is strong not because he choose to waste time or something. Sanji himself hyped their battle to be devastating enough to destroy the tower of justice which is something you wouldn't find in Sanji VS Jyabra. Even their feats aren't on the same level to began with.

What is special about Kaku is that he's a well versed fighter in all fields. He's skilled everything Jyabra has to offer and he has swordsmanship on top of it. Jyabra isn't best martial artist among Cp9. I don't even get where you get that but something like that never stated or implied in manga. Furthermore, Jyabra doesn't have the best tekkai, it's just that he has better mastery over it. The strongest tekkai user of Cp9 was Lucci followed by Kaku. Apart from being more experienced than Kaku, Jyabra displayed nothing that makes him look like someone with better mastery over his fruit. If anything Kaku had far better display of his fruit than Jyabra.

I am not even sure about what you're implying in your last paragraph. Sanji's intelligence accounts for nothing against Zoro when both of them are straight forward fighters.

What do you mean exactly? They were neck n' neck in strength in Enies Lobby. That much is clear. If Kaku somehow got way stronger than Jabra after eating DF(that leads to alot of contradictions mind you), please explain if you can.

-Base Lucci dokuri is 4000.
-Base Luffy is 4000 as he clashed evenly with Base Lucci
-Zoro is 4000 as his brute strength was said to be equal to Luffy is 2 databooks(using this since Zoro fans love databooks apparently).
-4000 Zoro overpowered Kaku in a clash of burte strength which means Kaku is weaker than Base Lucci, Base Luffy and has a less than 4000 dokuri.
-Kaku's dokuri went from 2200 to around 3700 or 3800.
-Jabra's dokuri? I'll let someone else say it and hopefully not give a blatantly bias number in order to make Kaku and Zoro look like gods.

Unlike us the fans those who provide information for DB's have no reason to be biased towards selective characters. I won't take DB for granted but they at least provide more balanced and unbiased arguments than us for sure.

 

[Love Cook]

Kaku's DF was obviously better than Jyabura's DF.

In what way ? And since when are fruits better ? I think that everybody who fought Luffy had a 'better' fruit than Luffy.

Jyaburu had multiple wolf themed attacks, so that shows better control over the fruit and it was more fitting to his fighting style.

Kaku was just figuring stuff out and didn't know what to do. He turned into a cube, he pulled in his neck because it was an easy target.

So he increased his strength bit also his hit area. Jyabura's transformation didn't have any downsides.

Meaning he had the better fruit.

I am not even sure about what you're implying in your last paragraph. Sanji's intelligence accounts for nothing against Zoro when both of them are straight forward fighters.

lol, well can't argue with stupid.

Just look at how Zoro dealt with Pica, it was hit and miss and he was playing whack a mole for hours. He finally relied on his pure strength to cut the whole thing up.

An intelligent fighter would've seen through the trick before it was to late and use a pin point strike to kick Pica out of the stone.