My problems with adult RSM Naruto

chaos control

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As we should all know by now, the mode that Naruto dons in Gaiden and in the Boruto movie is in fact RSM. Furthermore, we should all know by now that there are 3 forms of RSM Naruto.

Base RSM: The form Naruto donned when he kicked Madara's truth seeking ball.

Kurama Chakara RSM: The form adult Naruto dons.

9 bijuu RSM: The strongest and most epic form that Naruto donned in the battles against Rikudou Madara, Kaguya, and Sasuke.

Now I have a few gripes with the 2nd one (Kurama chakara RSM). To be honest, my gripes really aren't with the form itself, but more so the way Kishi handled the form.

1. My first gripe revolves around the abilities that Kishi had adult RSM Naruto show. As stated by the databook, RSM (even at base) grants all 5 nature transformations as well as yin-yang release, flight, immunity to truth seeking balls, supreme sensing capabilities, speed/reaction time that matches or surpasses that of a 10 tails jinchuuriki, and a universal understanding of chakara. Now the really important things to focus on here are the 5 nature transformations, the yin-yang release and the universal understanding of chakara.

With all chakara natures including yin-yang and a universal understanding of chakara (which would allow a person to automatically be a master at said natures without even having to train with them), Naruto should be able to easily use techniques such as a fire style rasenshuriken or kekkei genkai elements such as lava and boil release even if he doesn't have the chakaras of all the other bijuus (which he was not stated in any official source to have lost them by the way). In other words, even if Naruto did lose the other bijuus, he should still retain access to all the elements that they granted him just due to being in RSM (even in base RSM). Basically, the loss of the other bijuus if he did in fact lose them should essentially simply result in a slightly less amount of chakara for Naruto to draw from.

Additionally, it is also debatable that adult Naruto should have likely still been able to make truth seeking balls even without the 9 bijuus. Some people believe that the 9 bijuus were responsible for the truth seeking balls, but if you look closely in the manga, you'll notice a few things:

Hagoromo actually had truth seeking balls before becoming the 10 tails jinchuuriki as well as after his death. In other words, he had them at times when he did not have bijuu chakara. In both situations, it was just rikudou senjutsu (no bijuu chakara). This is at the very least a hint that rikudou senjutsu alone allows a person to use truth seeking balls.

Another thing to note is that when Obito stole some rikudou senjutsu chakara from Madara, he got a truth seeking ball, and if you pay attention then you will notice that he got the ball before grabbing onto Shukaku and Gyuki's chakaras. This is just another hint that rikudou senjutsu alone allows for the creation of truth seeking balls.

A big hint is also the fact that Hamura who was never a jinchuuriki to begin with (who is also actually not even listed as a user of rikudou senjutsu either) had truth seeking balls even without being in tenseigan chakara mode.

I won't get into Toneri.

Having noted all of these things, it stands to reason that Naruto at least in theory should still be able to make truth seeking balls even without the 9 bijuus.

Despite all of this, Kishi only had adult Naruto show manipulation of Kurama's chakara/body parts along with the usual shadow clone jutsu and rasengan. Now my problem is not that Naruto didn't use his full power. After all, Sasuke didn't use all the paths of the rinnegan either. My problem is that adult Naruto used so little of the things that he could have used, that it seemed as if he lost a lot of power. That is my problem. Despite being in RSM, everything that adult Naruto did were things that he could have done in normal BM or at times even KCM for that matter! He doesn't have to use absolutely everything in his arsenal necessarily, but I wish that Naruto used something that distinguished RSM from lesser modes (and no simple flight doesn't count).

Here is what I mean:

As I stated before, Sasuke didn't necessarily use all the paths of the rinnegan, but we at least got to see adult Sasuke use amenotejikara a few times along with that epic portal jutsu that adult Sasuke has. Kishi handled Sasuke well. With the way he handled adult Sasuke, we could still tell that Sasuke didn't lose rinnegan or that Kishi didn't just plain forget that Sasuke had it (and we could tell this by seeing his power in addition to just plain seeing the eye itself).

With Naruto on the other hand just using chakara arms and manifesting Kurama, for the longest time we couldn't tell what mode Naruto was in. Heck, when Gaiden RSM Naruto was first seen, I and a lot of other people thought it was BSM. The only way we were able to distinguish that it was RSM was by noting that the eyes were RSM eyes and that they lacked the sage mode pigmentation around them. It is not even like the RSM eyes are a dojutsu either! Kishi even made the cloak look like a normal BM cloak!

Basically Kishi did this:

He made adult Naruto use BM/KCM level power with absolutely nothing (no special elements or yin-yang or truth seeking balls) to give even the tiniest hint of Naruto having rikudou level power.

He gave the mode a BM/KCM looking design with only a small and non-prominent feature (the eyes) to indicate that it was RSM.

In summary, while Kishi technically didn't take RSM away from Naruto, he might as well have. What is the point of making it RSM if there is practically no distinguishing it from BSM? One special kekkei genkai element is all I ask. Just one boil release rasenshuriken or something like that! Just one little thing like that would distinguish RSM power just as a few little uses of amenotejikara distinguished that Sasuke could still use rinnegan. Is that so much to ask?

What do you guys think? Do you think that Kishi could have handled adult RSM a lot better and distinguished it from his lower forms a lot better?

Discuss
 

SIR UZMAKIMADARA

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Kishi nerfed Naruto.That's basically it.

Naruto didn't use any of other FRS variants because it would kill the villain instantly.6 TSBRS and 9 Bijuu RS cant be tanked by any villain.
 

Gerkak

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Basically kishi wanted to keep naruto simple, he probably realized that handing him multiple elements and TSB would give him a more diverse fighting style which probably isn't what kishi wants for the character. It happened to other characters as well e.g obito who was denied the use of the rinnegan to keep his fighting style simple.

As for universal comprehension, that was just DB hype naruto never had such a power if he did nothing would be unknown to him.
 

Punk Hazard

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Understanding how they work doesn't mean he has the ability to mold them in the way needed for Kekkei Genkai. The reason they're called Kekkei Genkai is because you need an innate predispostion to use them; it's literally limited by your blood. Bijuu are capable of lending their abilities to their host, but this does not mean they're giving the host the ability to naturally perform it.

If Naruto does not have the natural ability in his body to use a certain Kekkei Genkai, then it doesn't matter if he KNOWS how to do it, his body physically can't, which is why he'd need the Bijuu.
 

Jokule67

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Kishi nerfed Naruto.That's basically it.

Naruto didn't use any of other FRS variants because it would kill the villain instantly.6 TSBRS and 9 Bijuu RS cant be tanked by any villain.

^^^^ Pretty much sums it up. Naruto might have to learn how to be subtle and deadly like Sasuke. All his moves are one shots.
 

Jokule67

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Basically kishi wanted to keep naruto simple, he probably realized that handing him multiple elements and TSB would give him a more diverse fighting style which probably isn't what kishi wants for the character. It happened to other characters as well e.g obito who was denied the use of the rinnegan to keep his fighting style simple.

As for universal comprehension, that was just DB hype naruto never had such a power if he did nothing would be unknown to him.

Universal comprehendion isnt just hype. It basically makes him smart whereas he was originally dumb. It gives him complete understanding of Chakra not the world and allows him to dissect techniques like a well studied sensetive master. Thats what DB says
 

Liquid Snake

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If naruto uses full potential he would be too op kishi has to nerf him
 

BlacLord™

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Naruto used a incomplete version of RSBM; RBSM. The difference is that RBSM houses 100% Kurama, and none of the other Bijuu's chakra.
 

TenseiganFTW

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Kishi nerfed Naruto.That's basically it.

Naruto didn't use any of other FRS variants because it would kill the villain instantly.6 TSBRS and 9 Bijuu RS cant be tanked by any villain.

Sasuke can Ameno them all...

He Ameno his BijuuSanoo.
 

Jokule67

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Naruto used a incomplete version of RSBM; RBSM. The difference is that RBSM houses 100% Kurama, and none of the other Bijuu's chakra.

I'm just glad you said RSBM. Lots people dont understand RSM and Bijuu mode are 2 diff powers with 2 diff sources merged to create stronger power
 

Gerkak

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Universal comprehendion isnt just hype. It basically makes him smart whereas he was originally dumb. It gives him complete understanding of Chakra not the world and allows him to dissect techniques like a well studied sensetive master. Thats what DB says

DB also says temari could blow away the universe.

Besides the jesus healing(which might just be a new technique) nothing impressed me. Naruto using the FRS variations was something he could have done with RSM if he had bijuu cooperation, after all it is the bijuu that provide the nature naruto is the one that does the rest which is the same process as a regular FRS.
 

Jokule67

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Kishi realized that if he gave Naruto all his RSM abilities:
TSB
Flight
Yin/Yang
Ying-Yang
Jesus Healing
All Basic Elements
Universal Knowledge + any that I forget.

He'd have to do the same for his counterpart Rinnegan abilities:
Ameno
Yin/Yang
Ying-Yang
All 7 Paths
RinneGenjutsu
All Basic Elements
Space-Tome Portal+ any that I forget.

The above list doesn't include their Base abilities Or their Sharingan & Jinchuriki powers.

Didn't you see how they hurried the guy manga in the end, Kishi ain't got time for all that.

You right they recieved powers that only an adult should have. But thats what this thread is about. How they nerfed adult Naruto to much just because he was a side character this time lol. That movie belonged to Sasuke and Boruto lol
 

HENI

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Adult Naruto doesn't even have RSM.
 

Jokule67

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DB also says temari could blow away the universe.

Besides the jesus healing(which might just be a new technique) nothing impressed me. Naruto using the FRS variations was something he could have done with RSM if he had bijuu cooperation, after all it is the bijuu that provide the nature naruto is the one that does the rest which is the same process as a regular FRS.

Doesnt have to impress you. The power is still there and he doesnt need the bijuu to use the basic elements and complete use of Yin Yang which no normal ninja has ever truly used.

Only their signature jutsu like lava release boil release, magnet release etc are restricted without them.
 

Nagi

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Kishi gave naruto too much chakra and shit. Naruto is a broken character. He is next superman. Kishi made it seem like sage mode Naruto is unbeatable. Then make chakra mode super unbeatable. now Naruto got all this shit. He is a broken character.
 

The Demon Hawk

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I agree with what you said to some extent.

Firstly, the "special" factor of RSM was very much lacking, as you said. It basically felt like an empowered BSM just to give off the sensation of Rikodou powers. Power-wise, it wasn't subpar. It was stronger, but not really special. It just felt indifferent to his previous forms for some reason. He shouldn't have lost truth seeking balls, and demonstrated some distinct abilities. Most notably, his RSM isn't much different from the BSM he used in The Last.

Second is definitely the many confusing RSM forms which weren't explained as to how they were attained. Hell, even RSM itself is confusing AF, we don't know what exactly RSM is. A presiding power already kneaded or mixed with NE on spot? Difference between Rikodou chakra enhanced SM and RSM? WTF?! We never clearly understood the criteria and conditions of the various RSM versions and the difference between them, like the one in the War and the other as adult. And not showing some powers as an adult invokes doubt in people's minds about how this power changed or whether Naruto really has this stuff or not. Sure he has it but how to explain the non-existent usage?

Naruto presumably lost his TSBs against Madara, Kaguya and Sasuke. So that might clear up why he doesn't have them. And BTW, the "universal understanding" bit is an utter hyperbole IMO.

You have to understand that these guys boast a massive arsenal of power and abilities, so Kishi just can't easily manage all of this stuff and put them together with full attention to every bit and detail. He surely will miss a few things and clarifications which you'll have to understand on your own. The same thing could be said for both Naruto and Sasuke not exhibiting any potential or proficiency in utilizing other chakra natures. That isn't just for Naruto. This added with "universal understanding" being an overstatement could remove the set of complaints.

And I agree with everything after "Basically Kishi did this:" in the last of your post.
 
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Gerkak

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Doesnt have to impress you. The power is still there and he doesnt need the bijuu to use the basic elements and complete use of Yin Yang which no normal ninja has ever truly used.

Only their signature jutsu like lava release boil release, magnet release etc are restricted without them.

Yes it doesn't have to impress me but nothing he did showed any universal comprehension of chakra expect the jesus technique which may or may not be a new technique granted by RSM. Sasuke, obito, madara, kaguya can also use yin-yang release and all basic elements no one says they have any universal understanding. Naruto hasn't shown anything that sets him apart from them.

So how can we know without reverting to DB hype that he actually has such an ability
 
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