are terrorists really muslims??

[Bimbonium]

meaning they are radical muslims which is not true islam. :)

It might not be considered True Islam by you because you supposedly know what True Islam is, But some terrorists identify themselves as Muslims, and they claim to follow the religion, if they do or they don't doesn't change the fact that they identify themselves as Muslims.
Now are they Muslims? Most Muslims will say no, but are these 'normal' Muslims, Muslims? If yes, how are they Muslims? First and foremost because they identify themselves as Muslims, then the whole following a religious code of conduct comes after.

 

[Filosoofis]

radical muslims not the majority, lml if it was the majority you'd be facing like 2 billion people. :)

More like 1.2 billion but anyway I thought you were asking about the religion of these terrorists

 

[Ludicrous]

Another interesting way to look at this:

If all Muslims were terrorists, would Islam even exist anymore?

No, there are laws and codes which each member has to follow. Breaking them and not following the right scripture (which stresses not killing) is like committing treason against your country. Once you commit treason, you're no longer considered a citizen. Same occurs for religion.

This is funny because you can lose your status as a muslim if you stop praying but according to the logic of others, you still retain that status if you kill someone.

 

[CrimsonReaper]

It might not be considered True Islam by you because you supposedly know what True Islam is, But some terrorists identify themselves as Muslims, and they claim to follow the religion, if they do or they don't doesn't change the fact that they identify themselves as Muslims.
Now are they Muslims? Most Muslims will say no, but are these 'normal' Muslims, Muslims? If yes, how are they Muslims? First and foremost because they identify themselves as Muslims, then the whole following a religious code of conduct comes after.

they're the minority so i don't think that defines islam.

 

[loj]

how are they muslims when they bomb muslim countries and slaughter muslims everyday?? can someone explain?? :bdpf:

So if im christian im not allowed to kill other christians? Is that what u are saying?

 

[Pumpkin Ninja]

If they say they are Muslim, who are we to tell them they are not? Their clear targets are non-Muslims and Muslim minorities like the Shia. Their goal is to have another Sunni-Muslim Caliphate that will stay and lead to the final years of judgement.

And before you say I don't know what I'm talking about, I am a Muslim.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Previous to my reply, I have found the video.

[video=youtube;SGG97dDfZ7E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGG97dDfZ7E[/video]

 

[Aim64C]

how are they muslims when they bomb muslim countries and slaughter muslims everyday?? can someone explain?? :bdpf:

A little research goes a long way:

You must be registered for see links

"Muhammad ibn Abd al Wahhab's emphasis on the oneness of God was asserted in contradistinction to shirk, or polytheism, defined as the act of associating any person or object with powers that should be attributed only to God. He condemned specific acts that he viewed as leading to shirk, such as votive offerings, praying at saints' tombs and at graves, and any prayer ritual in which the suppliant appeals to a third party for intercession with God. Particularly objectionable were certain religious festivals, including celebrations of the Prophet's birthday, Shia mourning ceremonies, and Sufi mysticism. Consequently, the Wahhabis forbid grave markers or tombs in burial sites and the building of any shrines that could become a locus of shirk.

His instructions in the matter of extending his religious teaching by force were strict. All unbelievers (i.e. Moslems who did not accept his teaching, as well as Christians, &c.) were to be put to death. Immediate entrance into Paradise was promised to his soldiers who fell in battle, and it is said that each soldier was provided with a written order from Ibn 'Abd ul-Wahhab to the gate-keeper of heaven to admit him forthwith. In this way the new teaching was established in the greater part of Arabia until its power was broken by Mehemet Ali. Ibn'Abd ul-Wahhab is said to have died in 1791. "

" It is clear that the claim of the Wahhabis to have returned to the earliest form of Islam is largely justified. The difference between ul-Wahhab's sect and others is that the Wahabis rigidly follow the same laws which the others neglect or have ceased altogether to observe. Even orthodox doctors of Islam have confessed that in Ibn 'Abd ul-Wahhab's writings there is nothing but what they themselves hold. At the same time the fact that so many of his followers were rough and unthinking Bedouins has led to the over-emphasis of minor points of practice, so that they often appear to observers to be characterized chiefly by a strictness (real or feigned) in such matters as the prohibition of silk for dress, or the use of tobacco, or of the rosary in prayer. "

See, Islam commands that all be unified under the law of the Qu'ran - as the Qu'ran, itself, states. Believers are commanded to conquer non-believers and to destroy even those who claim to be Muslim but who do not subject themselves to the Qur'an's laws.

This means that ISIS is Islam. Plain and simple. ISIS stems from Al Qaeda, which is rooted in Wahhabi Islam and was founded by Hassan Al Banna - a man who had the vision of re-establishing the Islamic Caliphate and who partnered with Hitler to try and do so.

Wahhabi Islam meshes perfectly with the agendas of the Muslim Brotherhood that were to bring about the Caliphate. Al Qaeda was the result when Osama Bin Laden did not want to return to Saudi Arabia after the U.S. sponsored the war in Afghanistan against the Russians. The Islamic State was the result when many of the believers in Al Qaeda believed to see signs of the coming Mahdi who would lead Islam into its final confrontation.

The problem with your attempt to say: "They aren't muslim because they kill muslims" is that the Qu'ran very clearly states that those who turn from the laws of the Qu'ran are to be killed. Those who commit Shirk are to be treated as if they are Kaffir - and are thus considered to be non-believers who are just shy of outright apostasy. In the grand scheme of things - they are to be invited to embrace true Islam three times before being forced at the point of the sword to comply with the laws of Islam and accept muslim rule.

If you do not want muslim rule - then you should probably be ready to kill some muslims, because they are perfectly willing to kill you and sacrifice their own lives for their cause.

 

[Pumpkin Ninja]

A little research goes a long way:

You must be registered for see links

"Muhammad ibn Abd al Wahhab's emphasis on the oneness of God was asserted in contradistinction to shirk, or polytheism, defined as the act of associating any person or object with powers that should be attributed only to God. He condemned specific acts that he viewed as leading to shirk, such as votive offerings, praying at saints' tombs and at graves, and any prayer ritual in which the suppliant appeals to a third party for intercession with God. Particularly objectionable were certain religious festivals, including celebrations of the Prophet's birthday, Shia mourning ceremonies, and Sufi mysticism. Consequently, the Wahhabis forbid grave markers or tombs in burial sites and the building of any shrines that could become a locus of shirk.

His instructions in the matter of extending his religious teaching by force were strict. All unbelievers (i.e. Moslems who did not accept his teaching, as well as Christians, &c.) were to be put to death. Immediate entrance into Paradise was promised to his soldiers who fell in battle, and it is said that each soldier was provided with a written order from Ibn 'Abd ul-Wahhab to the gate-keeper of heaven to admit him forthwith. In this way the new teaching was established in the greater part of Arabia until its power was broken by Mehemet Ali. Ibn'Abd ul-Wahhab is said to have died in 1791. "

" It is clear that the claim of the Wahhabis to have returned to the earliest form of Islam is largely justified. The difference between ul-Wahhab's sect and others is that the Wahabis rigidly follow the same laws which the others neglect or have ceased altogether to observe. Even orthodox doctors of Islam have confessed that in Ibn 'Abd ul-Wahhab's writings there is nothing but what they themselves hold. At the same time the fact that so many of his followers were rough and unthinking Bedouins has led to the over-emphasis of minor points of practice, so that they often appear to observers to be characterized chiefly by a strictness (real or feigned) in such matters as the prohibition of silk for dress, or the use of tobacco, or of the rosary in prayer. "

See, Islam commands that all be unified under the law of the Qu'ran - as the Qu'ran, itself, states. Believers are commanded to conquer non-believers and to destroy even those who claim to be Muslim but who do not subject themselves to the Qur'an's laws.

This means that ISIS is Islam. Plain and simple. ISIS stems from Al Qaeda, which is rooted in Wahhabi Islam and was founded by Hassan Al Banna - a man who had the vision of re-establishing the Islamic Caliphate and who partnered with Hitler to try and do so.

Wahhabi Islam meshes perfectly with the agendas of the Muslim Brotherhood that were to bring about the Caliphate. Al Qaeda was the result when Osama Bin Laden did not want to return to Saudi Arabia after the U.S. sponsored the war in Afghanistan against the Russians. The Islamic State was the result when many of the believers in Al Qaeda believed to see signs of the coming Mahdi who would lead Islam into its final confrontation.

The problem with your attempt to say: "They aren't muslim because they kill muslims" is that the Qu'ran very clearly states that those who turn from the laws of the Qu'ran are to be killed. Those who commit Shirk are to be treated as if they are Kaffir - and are thus considered to be non-believers who are just shy of outright apostasy. In the grand scheme of things - they are to be invited to embrace true Islam three times before being forced at the point of the sword to comply with the laws of Islam and accept muslim rule.

If you do not want muslim rule - then you should probably be ready to kill some muslims, because they are perfectly willing to kill you and sacrifice their own lives for their cause.

Which Muslims are ready for that? Do you personally know any? I don't, and I have family in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and other Muslim countries. If you're referring to terrorist organizations, they are only a small minority of those who identify as Muslims. It's clear as day that you're ready to kill Muslims more than most Muslims are ready to kill you.


And let's assume that Wahhabi Islam is true Islam. I still can't name a single person who follows it. So then that means majority is a deviated version, and if that's the case, why bother the majority because of a minority?

 

[deadp00l]

They are not Muslims for the simple reason thatthe rest of the Muslim world refuses to associate itself with their actions.

That is what religion is at the basic level anyway, just a group of people with similar belief system. If you keep doing retarded shit that goes against the rest of the people's beliefs then you aren't part of them. Of course the person can keep shouting that they belong with them it's all but meaningless.

 

[Ripple Hole]

They are not Muslims for the simple reason thatthe rest of the Muslim world refuses to associate itself with their actions.

That is what religion is at the basic level anyway, just a group of people with similar belief system. If you keep doing retarded shit that goes against the rest of the people's beliefs then you aren't part of them. Of course the person can keep shouting that they belong with them it's all but meaningless.

They don't shout that they belong with them, they shout that they belong to Islam and that the "them" are following it incorrectly. Religion isn't a group where it's members decide who is and who isn't based on their personal(not religious) beliefs contradicting with another's, well not mostly.

 

[Aim64C]

Which Muslims are ready for that? Do you personally know any? I don't, and I have family in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and other Muslim countries. If you're referring to terrorist organizations, they are only a small minority of those who identify as Muslims. It's clear as day that you're ready to kill Muslims more than most Muslims are ready to kill you.

You must be registered for see links

" Even more troubling, is the fact that nearly a quarter of the Muslims polled believed that, “It is legitimate to use violence to punish those who give offense to Islam by, for example, portraying the prophet Mohammed.”

...

Nearly one-fifth of Muslim respondents said that the use of violence in the United States is justified in order to make shariah the law of the land in this country. "

They don't exactly give me names and addresses to go off of, unfortunately.

You must be registered for see links

"
The survey found the global median for Muslims opposed to violence in the name of Islam was 72 percent.

Marvellous.

Even though that group includes individuals like the 2009-era Tsarnaev brothers — then still moderate and not yet radicalized — let’s take it at face value and rejoice that a solid majority of Muslims does not openly engage in (or openly support) murder for Allah. 72 percent! Terrific!

Except … well, what about the other 28 percent? There are 1.3 billion Muslims on this planet. If 28 percent of them support violent jihad, that’s 364 million Muslims who condone the murder of apostates, blasphemers, gay people, cartoonists, loose women, and possibly everyone godless enough to attend the Boston marathon. "

So, roughly a demographic that equals the United States in raw population.

You must be registered for see links

" 19% of American Muslims said suicide bombings are okay (2011). And the number jumps in other categories: 18% of foreign born Muslims said suicide bombings are generally okay. And (in 2007–figures not available in 2011) 22% of foreign born Arab Muslims said suicide bombings are okay. Yup, nearly one out of four Arab Muslims in America says it’s okay to blow you up. And those are the ones who openly said so to Pew. "

And what do the other three do about their crazy little buddies?

Let them blow people up.

Thus, the difference between the two groups is irrelevant to non-muslims, as the two are functionally identical.

And let's assume that Wahhabi Islam is true Islam. I still can't name a single person who follows it. So then that means majority is a deviated version, and if that's the case, why bother the majority because of a minority?

Except that polls show Islam is becoming more radical on the whole as time moves on. ISIS is gaining territory and membership.

I'm going to put it in very simple terms so that you can understand:

ISIS will kill me just as sure as they will kill you. If you do not kill them - then I am not going to bother distinguishing between the two of you, as you are simply a pawn to be held or sacrificed by the 'majority.'

You do not get to tell me that you are truly Islam, as you will allow ISIS to dominate your life.

The only people who have the right to contest my claims against Islam are those who are willing to put their life on the line to defend their way of life against Islam.

 

[Pumpkin Ninja]

You must be registered for see links

" Even more troubling, is the fact that nearly a quarter of the Muslims polled believed that, “It is legitimate to use violence to punish those who give offense to Islam by, for example, portraying the prophet Mohammed.”

...

Nearly one-fifth of Muslim respondents said that the use of violence in the United States is justified in order to make shariah the law of the land in this country. "

They don't exactly give me names and addresses to go off of, unfortunately.

You must be registered for see links

"
The survey found the global median for Muslims opposed to violence in the name of Islam was 72 percent.

Marvellous.

Even though that group includes individuals like the 2009-era Tsarnaev brothers — then still moderate and not yet radicalized — let’s take it at face value and rejoice that a solid majority of Muslims does not openly engage in (or openly support) murder for Allah. 72 percent! Terrific!

Except … well, what about the other 28 percent? There are 1.3 billion Muslims on this planet. If 28 percent of them support violent jihad, that’s 364 million Muslims who condone the murder of apostates, blasphemers, gay people, cartoonists, loose women, and possibly everyone godless enough to attend the Boston marathon. "

So, roughly a demographic that equals the United States in raw population.

You must be registered for see links

" 19% of American Muslims said suicide bombings are okay (2011). And the number jumps in other categories: 18% of foreign born Muslims said suicide bombings are generally okay. And (in 2007–figures not available in 2011) 22% of foreign born Arab Muslims said suicide bombings are okay. Yup, nearly one out of four Arab Muslims in America says it’s okay to blow you up. And those are the ones who openly said so to Pew. "

And what do the other three do about their crazy little buddies?

Let them blow people up.

Thus, the difference between the two groups is irrelevant to non-muslims, as the two are functionally identical.



Except that polls show Islam is becoming more radical on the whole as time moves on. ISIS is gaining territory and membership.

I'm going to put it in very simple terms so that you can understand:

ISIS will kill me just as sure as they will kill you. If you do not kill them - then I am not going to bother distinguishing between the two of you, as you are simply a pawn to be held or sacrificed by the 'majority.'

You do not get to tell me that you are truly Islam, as you will allow ISIS to dominate your life.

The only people who have the right to contest my claims against Islam are those who are willing to put their life on the line to defend their way of life against Islam.

Dafuq are you talking about? If they try to kill me, obviously I will fight back. I will put my life on the line to defend my way of life against their Islam, not mine.

I think maybe, you should try to stop and think about why people in the Middle East are turning to religion and violence as a whole. People are not going to do so simply because they find a verse in a book, no, they use the verses in the book to justify their violence.


That 28 percent also includes people who will resort to violence to defend their rights for religious freedom. That question is really looking at it in a black and white view.

 

[Monxstaa]

how are they muslims when they bomb muslim countries and slaughter muslims everyday?? can someone explain?? :bdpf:

well isis isnt even considered muslims anymore

The ones in Paris right now are/were Muslims yes.

was it confirmed tho if not stfu

I gave up on islam and only know the 5 Basic rules and believe in God because nowaday everyone tells me a different story about islam and what a good muslim really is but everyone lies

Islam gets downplayed and displayed too wrong too much

That nice potential religion is just screwed and for me Islam is dying because everyones disrespecting it

They just use the religion fr the purpose

lel are you stupid or what you do knw that only 1 percent of muslims are bad right*bombers etc* who said islam is dying islam is the fastest growing religion meh i dont have time to argue with simple minded people like you.

 

[deadp00l]

They don't shout that they belong with them, they shout that they belong to Islam and that the "them" are following it incorrectly.

Yes they have pretty much started their own version of islam, so people shouldn't just lump everyone under one term.

 

[Aim64C]

They are not Muslims for the simple reason thatthe rest of the Muslim world refuses to associate itself with their actions.

Well, except for the Muslims in Maylasia who are beheading apostates.

Or the muslims in Chechnya dispatching military commanders to train the ISIS militants. Or the muslims in Africa...

Or the muslims in.......

That is what religion is at the basic level anyway, just a group of people with similar belief system.

Islam isn't 'just' a religion.

Islam is the Qu'ran. The entire premise behind Islam is that the Qu'ran was directly revealed as the timeless wisdom of God to Muhammad and contains, within it, -the- formula for justice and the command to bring all of humanity under the rule of Islam.

Frankly, if you don't believe that - then you're not much of a muslim, because it's the entire -point- of the revelation of the Qu'ran within Islamic theology. The -reason- the Qu'ran was allegedly revealed to Muhammad was in order for God to give rise to a nation that would unify the world under God's system of law.

In that sense - Islam is an empire with an openly declared war against the rest of the world.

Now, that said, many people believe what you do about religion. So, you do get 'lifestyle muslims' who are muslim because that is what they were born as and they just kind of go about their day and follow a few of the routines and never really think too far beyond how a few teachings here and there apply to their day to day routine.

The Qu'ran blatantly calls such people no better than non-believers... who are to be made war against or held as a servant caste within Islamic society.

If you keep doing retarded shit that goes against the rest of the people's beliefs then you aren't part of them. Of course the person can keep shouting that they belong with them it's all but meaningless.

The thing is, they are doing a bit more than shouting.

I can understand how domesticated humans raised on a diet of "violence solves nothing" don't comprehend the elephant in the middle of the room.

Question:

If you and I are in a room, and I say: "All of the people in the room are true Scottsmen" - and you refute the claim... then you can say that I don't represent the room.

If I kill you. Do I then represent everyone in the room?

Violence may not "solve" problems - but it certainly can render them moot.

 

[Ripple Hole]

Yes they have pretty much started their own version of islam, so people shouldn't just lump everyone under one term.

Actual muslim reside in one group, but not the other.:heh:

 

[Monxstaa]

A little research goes a long way:

You must be registered for see links

"Muhammad ibn Abd al Wahhab's emphasis on the oneness of God was asserted in contradistinction to shirk, or polytheism, defined as the act of associating any person or object with powers that should be attributed only to God. He condemned specific acts that he viewed as leading to shirk, such as votive offerings, praying at saints' tombs and at graves, and any prayer ritual in which the suppliant appeals to a third party for intercession with God. Particularly objectionable were certain religious festivals, including celebrations of the Prophet's birthday, Shia mourning ceremonies, and Sufi mysticism. Consequently, the Wahhabis forbid grave markers or tombs in burial sites and the building of any shrines that could become a locus of shirk.

His instructions in the matter of extending his religious teaching by force were strict. All unbelievers (i.e. Moslems who did not accept his teaching, as well as Christians, &c.) were to be put to death. Immediate entrance into Paradise was promised to his soldiers who fell in battle, and it is said that each soldier was provided with a written order from Ibn 'Abd ul-Wahhab to the gate-keeper of heaven to admit him forthwith. In this way the new teaching was established in the greater part of Arabia until its power was broken by Mehemet Ali. Ibn'Abd ul-Wahhab is said to have died in 1791. "

" It is clear that the claim of the Wahhabis to have returned to the earliest form of Islam is largely justified. The difference between ul-Wahhab's sect and others is that the Wahabis rigidly follow the same laws which the others neglect or have ceased altogether to observe. Even orthodox doctors of Islam have confessed that in Ibn 'Abd ul-Wahhab's writings there is nothing but what they themselves hold. At the same time the fact that so many of his followers were rough and unthinking Bedouins has led to the over-emphasis of minor points of practice, so that they often appear to observers to be characterized chiefly by a strictness (real or feigned) in such matters as the prohibition of silk for dress, or the use of tobacco, or of the rosary in prayer. "

See, Islam commands that all be unified under the law of the Qu'ran - as the Qu'ran, itself, states. Believers are commanded to conquer non-believers and to destroy even those who claim to be Muslim but who do not subject themselves to the Qur'an's laws.

This means that ISIS is Islam. Plain and simple. ISIS stems from Al Qaeda, which is rooted in Wahhabi Islam and was founded by Hassan Al Banna - a man who had the vision of re-establishing the Islamic Caliphate and who partnered with Hitler to try and do so.

Wahhabi Islam meshes perfectly with the agendas of the Muslim Brotherhood that were to bring about the Caliphate. Al Qaeda was the result when Osama Bin Laden did not want to return to Saudi Arabia after the U.S. sponsored the war in Afghanistan against the Russians. The Islamic State was the result when many of the believers in Al Qaeda believed to see signs of the coming Mahdi who would lead Islam into its final confrontation.

The problem with your attempt to say: "They aren't muslim because they kill muslims" is that the Qu'ran very clearly states that those who turn from the laws of the Qu'ran are to be killed. Those who commit Shirk are to be treated as if they are Kaffir - and are thus considered to be non-believers who are just shy of outright apostasy. In the grand scheme of things - they are to be invited to embrace true Islam three times before being forced at the point of the sword to comply with the laws of Islam and accept muslim rule.

If you do not want muslim rule - then you should probably be ready to kill some muslims, because they are perfectly willing to kill you and sacrifice their own lives for their cause.

here watch this video
you and your ****ing lies why are you coping bs sites clearly they are soo many fake sites to deface islam and idiots like are using it as a source smh cant say anything more than that
[video=youtube;0ZCIK8hRPh4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZCIK8hRPh4[/video]

 

[Monxstaa]

Well, except for the Muslims in Maylasia who are beheading apostates.

Or the muslims in Chechnya dispatching military commanders to train the ISIS militants. Or the muslims in Africa...

Or the muslims in.......



Islam isn't 'just' a religion.

Islam is the Qu'ran. The entire premise behind Islam is that the Qu'ran was directly revealed as the timeless wisdom of God to Muhammad and contains, within it, -the- formula for justice and the command to bring all of humanity under the rule of Islam.

Frankly, if you don't believe that - then you're not much of a muslim, because it's the entire -point- of the revelation of the Qu'ran within Islamic theology. The -reason- the Qu'ran was allegedly revealed to Muhammad was in order for God to give rise to a nation that would unify the world under God's system of law.

In that sense - Islam is an empire with an openly declared war against the rest of the world.

Now, that said, many people believe what you do about religion. So, you do get 'lifestyle muslims' who are muslim because that is what they were born as and they just kind of go about their day and follow a few of the routines and never really think too far beyond how a few teachings here and there apply to their day to day routine.

The Qu'ran blatantly calls such people no better than non-believers... who are to be made war against or held as a servant caste within Islamic society.



The thing is, they are doing a bit more than shouting.

I can understand how domesticated humans raised on a diet of "violence solves nothing" don't comprehend the elephant in the middle of the room.

Question:

If you and I are in a room, and I say: "All of the people in the room are true Scottsmen" - and you refute the claim... then you can say that I don't represent the room.

If I kill you. Do I then represent everyone in the room?

Violence may not "solve" problems - but it certainly can render them moot.

in the quran it clearly says dont kill a human being
[17:33] You shall not kill any person - for GOD has made life sacred - except in the course of justice. If one is killed unjustly, then we give his heir authority to enforce justice. Thus, he shall not exceed the limits in avenging the murder; he will be helped.

 

[The Demon Hawk]

No, they aren't Muslims. They just call themselves Muslims to carry on with their terrorism while simultaneously degrading Muslims. Any sensible person would know that they aren't Muslims just by analyzing what they're doing.