Kakuzu vs Tobirama

[Curse Mark]

They have more feats, and are power houses. It's abot match ups and full aresenals. And this isn't abc logic as if kuzu stands a chance against either brother alone. The bros beating 2 kages isn't a feat you give to others because you think they're weak

Did they have the sage weapons in the coup?

 

[Zexion~]

Tobirama was also older when he was beaten by the brothers wasn't he? Or is his gray hair just misleading, which means he probably wasn't the fastest shinobi still :lol

Also the only thing that provides a challenge for Kakuzu is the shrouds, which Gian may or may not pierce through other than that he shits on the brothers.

 

[Draegod]

Lol what does the brothers have to do with this match up??? They beat two kages fact! Before tobirama gave hiruzen the crown he was still presumably in his prime (not old at all) or close to prime. They beat two kages, doesn't matter how but they did, fact! That is there feat and there's alone, not kuzu.

Now..

Either bro beats kuzu solo, period. Tobirama beats him, either brother beats him. Y'all are gasping for straws hoping to get a sip at this point.

 

[Zexion~]

Lol what does the brothers have to do with this match up??? They beat two kages fact! Before tobirama gave hiruzen the crown he was still presumably in his prime (not old at all) or close to prime. They beat two kages, doesn't matter how but they did, fact! That is there feat and there's alone, not kuzu.

Now..

Either bro beats kuzu solo, period. Tobirama beats him, either brother beats him. Y'all are gasping for straws hoping to get a sip at this point.

Nope :lol

 

[Curse Mark]

Lol what does the brothers have to do with this match up??? They beat two kages fact! Before tobirama gave hiruzen the crown he was still presumably in his prime (not old at all) or close to prime. They beat two kages, doesn't matter how but they did, fact! That is there feat and there's alone, not kuzu.
Now..
Either bro beats kuzu solo, period. Tobirama beats him, either brother beats him. Y'all are gasping for straws hoping to get a sip at this point.

You were talking about them, so I asked a question about them. Did they have the sage weapons at that time?
I don't know what you mean by yall because i dont think ive even posted an opinion on this fight, just a question to you.

 

[EZQ]

Anyone who says either of the brothers can solo Kakuzu is delusional

 

[Draegod]

You were talking about them, so I asked a question about them. Did they have the sage weapons at that time?
I don't know what you mean by yall because i dont think ive even posted an opinion on this fight, just a question to you.

Wasn't talking about you, talking about the ppl who brought the brothers up. And again what does it matter if they beat two kages with the weapons or not (which they didn't otherwise they'd be sealed not dead)? What does that have to do with the brothers? Hype wise they're equal or above tobirama feat wise they're easily above kuzu, super feats with all five weapons put them even higher!

 

[ToshiZO]

They have more feats, and are power houses. It's abot match ups and full aresenals. And this isn't abc logic as if kuzu stands a chance against either brother alone. The bros beating 2 kages isn't a feat you give to others because you think they're weak

Not the point. There are ways to do Tobirama in is all. You don't have to be a speed demon to take on Tobirama.

 

[Draegod]

Not the point. There are ways to do Tobirama in is all. You don't have to be a speed demon to take on Tobirama.

I agree. But what does the brothers have to do with this fight? And tobirama beats him every time based off feats, it's nothing against kuzu, it's just not his win percentage more often then not.

 

[Draegod]

Anyone who says either of the brothers can solo Kakuzu is delusional

And how does he beat 1 let alone 2 since you're an expert to both all of a sudden? Matter a fact I'll make a seperate thread, no need to keep this obv win thread open.

 

[KingHashirama]

Tobirama mid-diff at the hardest.


too skilled

too experienced

Kakuzu was from the era as Tobirama and etc, yet not a legend from that era.

true, but then he with a Raikage beside him still manages to lose to Kinkaku and Ginkaku. They should not have been able to tag him for shit either.

it was a coup by the Kin/ginkaku forces (that later on were after the second hokage)... meaning an ambush, that we don't know how it went down. And there is no scan in the manga mentioning "he lost".

 

[ToshiZO]

it was a coup by the Kin/ginkaku forces (that later on were after the second hokage)... meaning an ambush, that we don't know how it went down. And there is no scan in the manga mentioning "he lost".

Said nothing about "forces" only the two brothers. The two brothers left Tobirama and the 2nd Raikage near death.

I agree. But what does the brothers have to do with this fight? And tobirama beats him every time based off feats, it's nothing against kuzu, it's just not his win percentage more often then not.

Just saying Kakuzu being slower than him doesn't mean he won't be able to possibly catch him.

 

[SW442]

You were talking about them, so I asked a question about them. Did they have the sage weapons at that time?
I don't know what you mean by yall because i dont think ive even posted an opinion on this fight, just a question to you.

They had the sage weapons before they even had Kurama's chakra.

And according to the databook, they used the sage tools, and kyuubi chakra during the Coup d'etat.

 

[Leathercandle]

Tobirama low-mid diff, he just seems more impressive and powerful.

Kakuzu

Techniques/technical stuff
-Five hearts
-Four mask helper things
-Earth Grudge Fear
-All 5 chakra natures

Noteworthy stuff
-Chosen for the mission to assassinate Hashirama (though he failed)
-A member of Akatsuki (must have a certain level of skill to be a part of)
-Very fast (able to intercept Kakashi's raikiri)
-Very physically strong (able to stop one of Choji's enlarged punches with his hand)
-Able to match Kakashi in taijutsu


Tobirama

Techniques/technical stuff
-FTG
-Master of the water element
-All 5 chakra natures
-Sensing
-Sword of the Thunder God
-Edo Tensei (I realize it's restricted in this fight)

Noteworthy Stuff
-Said to be the fastest shinobi of his time, and one of the most powerful shinobi in history (taken from wiki, so idk where that was pulled in the manga)
-Was a Hokage (requires a certain amount of skill, leadership, and trust of the people of Konoha to achieve)
-Was 1 of 2 of his many brothers who lived through the wars before Konoha was built
-Madara and even Minato acknowledged his speed
-Killed Izuna (Izuna was just as strong as Madara was at the time he was killed)
-Danzo stated no one was a match for Tobirama during his reign as Hokage
-Battled and didn't die when fighting against the gold and silver brother
-Very smart

 

[Curse Mark]

They had the sage weapons before they even had Kurama's chakra.

And according to the databook, they used the sage tools, and kyuubi chakra during the Coup d'etat.

Link the DB? I dont own/read them.

 

[SW442]

Link the DB? I dont own/read them.

Can't link. So had to copy + Paste.This is the last DB #4.

. 313 - Immeasurable Power Hidden In the Six Paths Sacred Treasures - The Legendary Weapons Handed Down In Kumogakure

Spoiler

p. 313
Konoha
Hundred Leaf Collection #77 - The Sage of the Six Paths Tools

Immeasurable power hidden in the Six Path’s Sacred Treasures
The Legendary Treasured tools passed down by Kumogakure

Handed down since ancient times by Kumogakure, are these five mighty shinobi tools. They are called the Sage of the Six Path’s Tools, items that are said, those who exceptionally (more than enough) demonstrate their power surpass even the Gokage/Five Kage. However, their usage expends enormous amounts of chakra, hence ordinary people will not be able to use them. Kumo’s Kinkaku and Ginkaku, using this power and the Nine Tails’ (Kyuubi’s) chakra, inflicted heavy injuries unto the Second Raikage and Second Hokage that brought them close to the brink of death.

Golden Canopy Rope (幌金縄 Koukinjou)
A rope that expels the word-soul (kotodama, spirit word) of whomever it touches. The person’s most frequently said phrase represents the word-soul and is squeezed/tugged out.

Seven Star Sword (七星剣 Shichiseiken)
A cursed treasured-sword used to cut the opponent’s word-soul. Its chakra expenditure exceeds other Treasured Tools.

Crimson Gourd (紅葫蘆 Benihisago)
With the word-soul stolen from their mouths, the persons who remain silent are sucked into the gourd, and sealed.

Amber Purifying Pot (琥珀の浄瓶 Kohaku no Jouhei)
A pot that seals those who respond to being called. This was used to seal Kumo’s Eight Tails (Hachibi).

Banana Fan (芭蕉扇 Bashousen)
A fan that summons/creates all of the five-natured techniques. With a single sweep, it envelops the enemy in a violent wind (gale) akin to a natural disaster (of catastrophic degree/proportions).

...

Notes:

The tools are based on the items used by the Golden Horned King and Silver Horned King in the Chinese classic, Journey to the West. The brothers’ entry on Wikipedia explains a bit more (the “Nine Tails” is actually their mother), and the entry on tvtropes is even more helpful (in the Demons folder). They seem to have the same function as in the source material. For comparison, the tools’ original names in Chinese are:

幌金绳 huǎng jīn shéng - Golden Cloth Rope
七星剑 qī xīng jiàn - Seven Star Sword
紫金红葫芦 zǐ jīn hóng hú lǔ - Purple Gold Red Gourd
羊脂玉净瓶 yáng zhī yù jìng píng - White Jade Flask or Suet Jade Flask
芭蕉扇 bā jiāo shàn - Palm-Leaf Fan or Banana Fan

The ones with notable differences are the gourd (Purple Gold Red vs Red/Crimson) and flask (White/Suet Jade vs Amber).

As for the meaning behind each name, or why the differences, I honestly don’t know. I didn’t read Journey to the West to see if there was anything else, so I can’t add much here.

For Golden Canopy Rope, the kanji of “canopy” (幌 tobari, horo) has several meanings. It’s standalone reading is “horo” and can also mean top, hood, cover; more specifically, a canvas, especially for a car or caravan. When read as “tobari”, it can also be written as 帳, 帷, or 幄, and they can also mean curtain or veil, and can be used in a metaphorical sense, eg: 夜のとばり yoru no tobari - the veil of night.
It’s a golden rope of a canopy, not so much a rope of a golden canopy.

For Crimson Gourd, the kanji of “gourd” or “calabash” (葫蘆 hisago) is used as the same as the original, just note that this “蘆 lǔ” is the older form of “芦 lǔ”. The usual kanji for gourd “hisago” is 瓠, 匏, and 瓢, each with their own additional readings.

言霊 kotodama - lit. word-soul, spirit/soul/power of language, words believed to have incantatory power.

RAW text:

Spoiler

木ノ葉
百葉集…其の七十七

計り知らぬ力を秘めし六道の神器
雲隠れに伝わる伝説の宝具

雲隠れには古来より伝わる、強力な忍具が五つある。それらは六道仙人の宝具と呼ばれ、その力を十二分に発揮した者は五影すら凌ぐと言われる代物。しかし、使用時に膨大なチャクラを消費することから、凡人には扱えなかった。雲の金角と銀角は、この力と九尾のチャクラで、二代目雷影および二代目火影に瀕しの重傷を負わせた。

幌金縄（こうきんじょう）
触れたの言霊を追い出す縄。人生で一番多く口にした単語が言霊として絞り出される。

七星剣（しちせいけん）
相手の言霊を斬り、呪う宝刀。そのチャクラ消費量は他の宝具を凌駕する。

紅葫蘆（べにひさご）
奪われた言霊を口にするか、沈黙し続けた者は瓢箪に吸い込まれ、封印される。

琥珀の浄瓶（こはくのじょうへい）
呼びかけに応じた者を封ずる瓶。雲では八尾の封印に使われていた。

芭蕉扇（ばしょうせん）
五大性質全ての術を巻き起こす扇。一扇すれば、天変地異が如き烈風が敵を包む。

 

[madvictory]

Kakuzu is too slow. Tobirama doesn't possess the destructive power to put him down.
In the end, it comes down to which individual has more chakra, and in this case, that is Kakuzu.
In other words, this is how the fight goes: Kakuzu spams powerful attacks - Tobirama dodges and uses his Kunai to strike, but it doesn't hurt him. It goes on like this until one of them runs out of chakra (Tobirama).

 

[EZQ]

And how does he beat 1 let alone 2 since you're an expert to both all of a sudden? Matter a fact I'll make a seperate thread, no need to keep this obv win thread open.

Did i say he beats both? No.

Since one of them alone lacks the speed and the range to touch a large scale ninjutsu user, they need their brother to beat Kakuzu. If they don't fight togheter, they won't be able to even get close to him to curse him with those weapons.