SM Hashirama vs SM Naruto and SM Kabuto

[Beans2]

No it isnt obv. Madara not having precog can be made up with chakra sensing. Madara still keeps his physical stats.

Who has better reactions? Madara with EMS and sensing or Madara with just sensing and no vision? Jesus :lol. You realize this claim works both ways right? I guess SM Kabuto with eyesight is no more reflexive than him when he's blind. And Itachi was matching him in speed and reactions. Matter of fact, Itachi managed to tag him. Madara>Itachi. Guess Kabuto gets blitzed too.

Yes its impressive. Thats not evidence for Hashirama jump. Eho EMS Madara can physically keep up with his SM too[

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], despite their = in Base Form.

How does that scan even remotely imply that EMS Madara can keep up with SM Hashirama physically? SM Kabuto can dodge Susanoo arrow. MS Kakashi who is far more reflexive than base Kabuto was forced to use kamui on Susanoo arrow. That should be proof enough of the massive boost in reactions and speed that Sage Mode gives.

Naruto barely reacted to blind Madara. The fact that you think he can still react to SM Hashirama is, well, it's dumb.

Um yes the burden of proof is to the person who made the positive claim. Not a negative.

No, you claimed that the difference between blind Madara and SM Hashirama isn't enough to let SM Naruto be blitzed despite him barely reacting to the former. I want to hear the reasoning behind this claim.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Who has better reactions? Madara with EMS and sensing or Madara with just sensing and no vision? Jesus :lol.

Except you built that right off your ass giving EMS Madara sensing.

You realize this claim works both ways right? I guess SM Kabuto with eyesight is no more reflexive than him when he's blind. And Itachi was matching him in speed and reactions. Matter of fact, Itachi managed to tag him. Madara>Itachi. Guess Kabuto gets blitzed too.

Wither you think SM eyesight increases his reflexes or not is irrelevant. And Itachi never matched Kabuto in reaction. Unless you can show me he can physically react to the speed of Susanoo arrow. You have no point.

How does that scan even remotely imply that EMS Madara can keep up with SM Hashirama physically? SM Kabuto can dodge Susanoo arrow. MS Kakashi who is far more reflexive than base Kabuto was forced to use kamui on Susanoo arrow. That should be proof enough of the massive boost in reactions and speed that Sage Mode gives.

Use your brain. Unlock deductive reasoning inside there. SM Hashirama jumps down to engaged Madara. The next page is a drawn out battle between them. If SM Hashirama was so much superior he would of ended Madara Close quarters. Yet they are still matching each other when Hashirama SM wore off[

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].

Naruto barely reacted to blind Madara. The fact that you think he can still react to SM Hashirama is, well, it's dumb.

Yeah as dumb as I were start making up feats for a character to sound right.

No, you claimed that the difference between blind Madara and SM Hashirama isn't enough to let SM Naruto be blitzed despite him barely reacting to the former. I want to hear the reasoning behind this claim.

Yes, thats exactly what you call a negative position. Plus I already address the fact that there's no dramatic speed boost you can give that makes Hashirama blitz Naruto. Because there's no feats that support it. You tried to claim EMS Madara = Base Hashirama despite manga also showing = to SM physically too. So if anything Naruto blocks Hashirama's blitz

 

[Beans2]

Except you built that right off your ass giving EMS Madara sensing.



Wither you think SM eyesight increases his reflexes or not is irrelevant. And Itachi never matched Kabuto in reaction. Unless you can show me he can physically react to the speed of Susanoo arrow. You have no point.




Use your brain. Unlock deductive reasoning inside there. SM Hashirama jumps down to engaged Madara. The next page is a drawn out battle between them. If SM Hashirama was so much superior he would of ended Madara Close quarters. Yet they are still matching each other when Hashirama SM wore off[

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].



Yeah as dumb as I were start making up feats for a character to sound right.




Yes, thats exactly what you call a negative position. Plus I already address the fact that there's no dramatic speed boost you can give that makes Hashirama blitz Naruto. Because there's no feats that support it. You tried to claim EMS Madara = Base Hashirama despite manga also showing = to SM physically too. So if anything Naruto blocks Hashirama's blitz

You can't expect me to reply to this.

 

[Draegod]

Hashirama poops. In Base he already matches EMS Madara in CQC, and Edo Madara can block Ay's punch with his arms, which KCM Naruto himself said was heavy. Edo Madara is not more durable than Base or Sage Mode Hashirama. Especially not Sage Mode Hashirama. Hashirama's physical parameters far surpass his opponents, and he has 2 weapons while these two don't have any weapons besides the basic Kunai.

EMS Sasuke was giving Blind Madara trouble, and Blind Madara>either in CQC. EMS Madara>EMS Sasuke in every physical ability. Match ends with Hashirama cutting both apart with his swords. Kabuto's healing factor is useless when the best he's shown is restoring wounds. Hashirama's healing>Byakugo as per Manga canon, so none of their kicks and punches are even going to hurt him.

And worst case scenario, he outlasts due to his vast chakra reserves, durability, and regen.

SM Hashirama>Base Hashirama=EMS Madara>EMS Sasuke>SM Kabuto>SM Naruto in CQC. No Ninjutsu at all.

Based on what? lol

 

[Ansatsuken]

Shame this Manga not put Taijutsu as a priority.

But here I lean toward SM Hashirama

 

[Apêx1]

SM Hashirama obviously rapes in a Taijutsu ONLY battle. If Kabuto can liquefy, use bone KKG, heal, etc as people are suggesting then I fail to see how Hashirama would win. But then again that's not what OP stipulated.

 

[Kushina san]

Smh liquidization is restricted

Then Hashi wins. Taijutsu and speed of Hashirama are really underrated.

 

[KidGamer65]

Bias much? You logically transfer Madara's physical stats to Hashirama. Yet ignore the implication of Kabuto's physical stats transfer from Orochimaru (stated by Sasuke) yet alone his own SM boost?

Except I ignored nothing. Let's not start with the annoying strawman arguments. You talk like having OROCHIMARU's physical abilities matters when he has never shown any impressive physical ability. Madara poops on him in that area, thus Hashirama poops on Kabuto in this area.

Not to mention that part of my post was about regen. Where in the world did physical stats come from? :lol

Madara never implied that @Bold. Madara himself stated it was = when he witnessed it. Even then, the same applies to Kabuto who has similar regen yet alone crazy immunity to physical attacks. Plus the fact that he can bite, either him or his snake to inject venom.

The databook outright states that Hashirama's healing is superior, so no. Kabuto has no immunity to physical attacks without any Ninjutsu. Orochimaru is only resistant to these attacks because he can use Oral Rebirth. Biting won't help when his snake gets severed if it ever comes close to his neck/arm/leg or whatever.

Chakra reserves would be irrelevant when Kabuto can constantly charge SM while Hashirama runs out. Dont see how you can conclude durability superiority. And regen =.

Um, Hashirama's chakra reserves>>>>>Kabuto's regardless of Sage Mode. Regardless of Sage Mode Hashirama equals EMS Madara in CQC, who shits on both of these guys in CQC. And no, their regen isn't equal. Something you completely made up.

Match ends with Hashirama manhandling them both and severing their limbs.

Based on what? lol

Based on him being able to force Madara to block his attack instead of Madara evading and pummeling Sasuke. A Sage Madara w/ Hagoromo's power might I add.

Use your brain. Unlock deductive reasoning inside there. SM Hashirama jumps down to engaged Madara. The next page is a drawn out battle between them. If SM Hashirama was so much superior he would of ended Madara Close quarters. Yet they are still matching each other when Hashirama SM wore off[

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].



Yeah as dumb as I were start making up feats for a character to sound right.

Jesus Christ. Can't you go at least one argument without using garbage logic? You have no idea how the fight went from that point to the end. All you are showing us is that tired Hashirama=Tired Madara in CQC, which also goes against Madara being able to compete with a SM version of Hashirama in CQC.

All you see is Hashirama jumping at Madara. You don't see when the Taijutsu fight started, so you have literally no evidence to base "EMS Madara=SM Hashirama" on when we have scans of EMS Madara and Base Hashirama stalemating each other in CQC.

1. It's obvious that Madara with EMS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Madara with no eyes at all in terms of reactions and striking speed given EMS' precog feats like enabling Sasuke to tag Juubito.

That doesn't effect Shunshin speed, and Blind Madara>EMS Madara there as Blind Madara has everything EMS Madara has, minus the eyes and plus Rikudo's power.

2. Sage Mode boosts all physical stats in all physical stats including speed. Naruto went from being meh at speed (can't even remember Early Shippuden Naruto's best speed feat) to blitzing Asura path at top speed. Don't you think that's rather impressive?

Yes, but that doesn't make SM Hashirama on par with Blind Madara.

Who has better reactions? Madara with EMS and sensing or Madara with just sensing and no vision? Jesus . You realize this claim works both ways right? I guess SM Kabuto with eyesight is no more reflexive than him when he's blind. And Itachi was matching him in speed and reactions. Matter of fact, Itachi managed to tag him. Madara>Itachi. Guess Kabuto gets blitzed too.

Why are we even talking about reaction speed when the important thing here is Shunshin speed?

While we're at it, what makes you think that Hashirama can't blitz Naruto? The burden of proof doesn't have to be completely on me.

Yes it does considering you made the claim and have no evidence to back it up. Madara had Hagoromo's power when he was revived. We can't hand his feats over to Hashirama unless you can prove that the boost SM Hashirama gets is comparable to the boost Madara gets from Hagoromo's power.

 

[Draegod]

Except I ignored nothing. Let's not start with the annoying strawman arguments. You talk like having OROCHIMARU's physical abilities matters when he has never shown any impressive physical ability. Madara poops on him in that area, thus Hashirama poops on Kabuto in this area.

Not to mention that part of my post was about regen. Where in the world did physical stats come from? :lol





The databook outright states that Hashirama's healing is superior, so no. Kabuto has no immunity to physical attacks without any Ninjutsu. Orochimaru is only resistant to these attacks because he can use Oral Rebirth. Biting won't help when his snake gets severed if it ever comes close to his neck/arm/leg or whatever.



Um, Hashirama's chakra reserves>>>>>Kabuto's regardless of Sage Mode. Regardless of Sage Mode Hashirama equals EMS Madara in CQC, who shits on both of these guys in CQC. And no, their regen isn't equal. Something you completely made up.

Match ends with Hashirama manhandling them both and severing their limbs.



Based on him being able to force Madara to block his attack instead of Madara evading and pummeling Sasuke. A Sage Madara w/ Hagoromo's power might I add.



Jesus Christ. Can't you go at least one argument without using garbage logic? You have no idea how the fight went from that point to the end. All you are showing us is that tired Hashirama=Tired Madara in CQC, which also goes against Madara being able to compete with a SM version of Hashirama in CQC.

All you see is Hashirama jumping at Madara. You don't see when the Taijutsu fight started, so you have literally no evidence to base "EMS Madara=SM Hashirama" on when we have scans of EMS Madara and Base Hashirama stalemating each other in CQC.



That doesn't effect Shunshin speed, and Blind Madara>EMS Madara there as Blind Madara has everything EMS Madara has, minus the eyes and plus Rikudo's power.



Yes, but that doesn't make SM Hashirama on par with Blind Madara.



Why are we even talking about reaction speed when the important thing here is Shunshin speed?




Yes it does considering you made the claim and have no evidence to back it up. Madara had Hagoromo's power when he was revived. We can't hand his feats over to Hashirama unless you can prove that the boost SM Hashirama gets is comparable to the boost Madara gets from Hagoromo's power.

You're talking about when Madara was playing with everyone?

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If i'm not mistaken he clearly "evaded every attack no diff with out trying". Then he later even states "a pity to kill you" and offered him to join instead of Madara offing him.

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Then to make it worse You would have to Pit Kabuto against Madara in the same Situation to even come close to making sense. You have nothing to support your notion that EMS sasuke is above Kabuto. Let alone Frog Fuu>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Anything EMS sasuke in CQC no question! But then again it is your opinion so never mind

 

[KidGamer65]

You're talking about when Madara was playing with everyone?

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If i'm not mistaken he clearly "evaded every attack no diff with out trying". Then he later even states "a pity to kill you" and offered him to join instead of Madara offing him.

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Then to make it worse You would have to Pit Kabuto against Madara in the same Situation to even come close to making sense. You have nothing to support your notion that EMS sasuke is above Kabuto. Let alone Frog Fuu>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Anything EMS sasuke in CQC no question! But then again it is your opinion so never mind

Why is it that when it comes to Madara people are quick to jump to the "playing with" route. Madara was evading his sword because he didn't want to get hit, yet he ended up getting hit. Unless you are telling me that he didn't want to get hit, but let himself get hit anyway, he ended up getting hit because he was unable to continue his dodge. Everything in this first part of your post is irrelevant as Sasuke tagging Madara didn't mean anything in the long run, as Madara still had the overwhelming advantage.

No, not really. That is a CQC confrontation. There is no other situation Kabuto would be in if EMS Sasuke engaged him. Kabuto has zero Ninjutsu here to supplement his fighting nor does he have any weapons besides basic Ninja tools. Unless he does better than a Madara w/ Hashirama's Sage Mode and Hagoromo's chakra, it's safe to say that the match ends with Kabuto getting skewered. Kabuto doesn't even have any good hand to hand CQC feats that'd let him contend with EMS Sasuke so I have no idea where your argument is coming from in the first place. Same goes with Naruto.

And Kabuto doesn't even have Frog Fu, unless you are talking about Naruto. But EMS Sasuke beats him in CQC too anyway.

And it's not just an opinion. It's a conclusion reached by examining Manga fact.

 

[Draegod]

Why is it that when it comes to Madara people are quick to jump to the "playing with" route. Madara was evading his sword because he didn't want to get hit, yet he ended up getting hit. Unless you are telling me that he didn't want to get hit, but let himself get hit anyway, he ended up getting hit because he was unable to continue his dodge. Everything in this first part of your post is irrelevant as Sasuke tagging Madara didn't mean anything in the long run, as Madara still had the overwhelming advantage.

No, not really. That is a CQC confrontation. There is no other situation Kabuto would be in if EMS Sasuke engaged him. Kabuto has zero Ninjutsu here to supplement his fighting nor does he have any weapons besides basic Ninja tools. Unless he does better than a Madara w/ Hashirama's Sage Mode and Hagoromo's chakra, it's safe to say that the match ends with Kabuto getting skewered. Kabuto doesn't even have any good hand to hand CQC feats that'd let him contend with EMS Sasuke so I have no idea where your argument is coming from in the first place. Same goes with Naruto.

And Kabuto doesn't even have Frog Fu, unless you are talking about Naruto. But EMS Sasuke beats him in CQC too anyway.

And it's not just an opinion. It's a conclusion reached by examining Manga fact.

lol cool story. Madara with out a weapon would wanna get hit by a sword? lol He literally allowed Sauke to stab him that way and talked to him and allowed him to join after he figured out he had EMS. It's manga fact Madara plays with the weaker ninjas! The only ninja Pre JJ mode he took serious was Hashirama himself! Period, manga fact! He literally said "would be a pity to kill you" after Sasukes "Amazing" sword swipes! lmmfao The only way he could stop sasuke's sword with out getting limbs cut was to do what he did then hold it so sasuke couldn't Pull it or go up or down. Kabuto no diff reacted to Susanoo arrow that this site in particular thinks is the End all be all. Shitted on 2 Amazing sharingan users in the form of EMS sasuke and Edo itachi in CQC. Are you saying EMS sasuke could tag SM Kabuto with the same weak strikes? Sasuke moves faster then Susanoo arrow now? Plus the fact Madara literally dodged every single swipe no diff and was not trying to fight back! teh man literally had a Sword in his arm in full position to counter attack and shit on sasuke yet was trying to recruit the guy. Yet you think Madara was Dead on serious as if he was about to die........


Lol Keep fighting the good Fight my guy.

p.s. Chakra scalpel is a Ninjutsu and already cannonly went against another weapon, so you are wrong "Kabuto has zero Ninjutsu here to supplement his fighting" as if he didnt already shit on two uchihas in CQC literally no diff!

 

[KidGamer65]

lol cool story. Madara with out a weapon would wanna get hit by a sword? lol He literally allowed Sauke to stab him that way and talked to him and allowed him to join after he figured out he had EMS

Baseless assumption. If Madara wanted to get hit he wouldn't have been dodging to begin with. Come back when you have proof cause otherwise you are just wasting your time.

It's manga fact Madara plays with the weaker ninjas!

Doesn't mean it's a Manga fact that Madara let Sasuke hit him.

The only ninja Pre JJ mode he took serious was Hashirama himself! Period, manga fact! He literally said "would be a pity to kill you" after Sasukes "Amazing" sword swipes!

Already addressed. Madara not taking Sasuke seriously has nothing to do with him letting himself get stabbed. This nonsense "hurr Madara not serious" cop out argument that people love to use isn't going to cut it here.

lmmfao The only way he could stop sasuke's sword with out getting limbs cut was to do what he did then hold it so sasuke couldn't Pull it or go up or down.

Or if he was fast/good enough he could punk Sasuke without actually taking a hit. Like I said, Madara was dodging, thus he had no intention to be hit. Instead of Madara counter attacking in any way shape or form, he uses the arm that was stabbed to help him catch Sasuke's blade. Then he proceeds to say Sasuke has good moves due to his Sharingan.

Like I said, baseless assumption is a baseless assumption.

Kabuto no diff reacted to Susanoo arrow that this site in particular thinks is the End all be all. Shitted on 2 Amazing sharingan users in the form of EMS sasuke and Edo itachi in CQC.

Lol. I suggest we read the Manga again. Kabuto and the Uchiha bros never fought in straight up CQC with no Ninjutsu. Reacting to Susanoo Arrow is irrelevant when Sasuke can tag someone far faster and far more reflexive than Kabuto. Period. And that was even before Sasuke's precognitive abilities peaked so you can stop mentioning irrelevant scenarios now.

Are you saying EMS sasuke could tag SM Kabuto with the same weak strikes? Sasuke moves faster then Susanoo arrow now? Plus the fact Madara literally dodged every single swipe no diff and was not trying to fight back! teh man literally had a Sword in his arm in full position to counter attack and shit on sasuke yet was trying to recruit the guy. Yet you think Madara was Dead on serious as if he was about to die........

Yes, he does. Do us all a favor and stop mentioning Susanoo Arrow when those are two completely different situations. Kabuto being able to react to Susanoo Arrow from over 10m away doesn't mean he evades all of Sasuke's sword strikes in close combat when they are literally in each other's faces. KCM Naruto evaded and outspeeded full speed Ay, yet he was getting manhandled by the V2 Jinchuuriki in close combat, despite them being nowhere near as fast as Ay. KCM Naruto had trouble dealing with Obito in CQC despite being far faster than Ay. Itachi was stalemating him despite him being able to evade Ay.

And he already tagged Madara, who is>>Kabuto in every way, shape or form. The rest isn't relevant as shown above. You literally make no sense.


And if you were reading, you'd realize I never said the bold. I only said you mentioning it is irrelevant.

p.s. Chakra scalpel is a Ninjutsu and already cannonly went against another weapon, so you are wrong "Kabuto has zero Ninjutsu here to supplement his fighting" as if he didnt already shit on two uchihas in CQC literally no diff!

No Ninjutsu buddy. "He has no Ninjutsu" was an obvious reference to OP restricting Ninjutsu. Thought I might inform you since the point obviously flew over your head. Not to mention I clearly stated "NO NINJUTSU" when I made that CQC ranking.

 

[LuckyMan]

Sasuke can't evade his own Susanoo Arrow like Kabuto did if someone shot it at him. His reactions can't be higher than SM Kabutos.

 

[Beans2]

That doesn't effect Shunshin speed, and Blind Madara>EMS Madara there as Blind Madara has everything EMS Madara has, minus the eyes and plus Rikudo's power.

It doesn't affect shunshin speed but it does allow Madara to easily outmaneuver him when Naruto tries to block. Meaning Hashirama with swords would be able to land a fatal strike despite Naruto reacting.

Blind Madara has no more Rikudou chakra than Edo Madara has, which is basically nothing. He has his own Indra chakra plus Hashirama's cells. In fact, he should have less Rikudou chakra than Edo Madara since he lacks EMS or Rinnegan meaning his own Indra chakra is weaker. That can be made up with by EMS which boosts his chakra potency.

Yes, but that doesn't make SM Hashirama on par with Blind Madara.

Pretty sure it does.

Base Hashirama=EMS Madara.
Base Hashirama<Edo Madara with Hashirama's DNA+Rinnegan.
Take away both Rinnegan. Madara is slightly above him now. Take away EMS too. They are more or less equal.
Now give Hashirama Sage Mode. He is>Blind Madara.

Why are we even talking about reaction speed when the important thing here is Shunshin speed?

Reaction speed affects striking speed. Refer to Sasuke vs V1 Ay or Naruto vs 3rd Raikage. When SM Naruto tries to block, Hashirama outmaneuvers him in close combat and strikes a part of his body that he's not blocking. SM Hashirama is above or at least equal with blind Madara in shunshino Naruto gets cleaved in half by swords.

Yes it does considering you made the claim and have no evidence to back it up. Madara had Hagoromo's power when he was revived. We can't hand his feats over to Hashirama unless you can prove that the boost SM Hashirama gets is comparable to the boost Madara gets from Hagoromo's power.

Maybe Hashirama doesn't blitz Naruto with no reaction, but nothing Naruto does is going to protect himself. The amount of Hagomoro's power Madara has here is practically nothing, so I don't get why you're mentioning it like it's a game changer. If Danzo beat MS Sasuke and got his eyes, he'd have the same boost of Rikudou power as Madara does here since Danzo would have Indra chakra plus Hashirama's cells. That doesn't let him jump to a point where he's physically better than SM Hashirama in any aspect.

 

[Haizaki]

Reaction speed affects striking speed. Refer to Sasuke vs V1 Ay or Naruto vs 3rd Raikage. When SM Naruto tries to block, Hashirama outmaneuvers him in close combat and strikes a part of his body that he's not blocking. SM Hashirama is above or at least equal with blind Madara in shunshino Naruto gets cleaved in half by swords.

Did you mean to say Madara? Because there's nothing that suggest Madara hit a part he wasn't blocking. That could have been due to the power behind his attack being to strong forcing him back..Like this

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.

OP: These 2 can never win against Hashirama.

 

[Ambivalence]

^ I think he's saying it as a likely scenario in this matchup - if SM Naruto blocks, Hashirama would just hit him elsewhere and Naruto won't be able to guard that.

Hashirama wins without too much difficulty. Don't know about Blind Madara > SM Hashirama in CQC, though, unless that small Rikudou boost is actually that big.

 

[Beans2]

Did you mean to say Madara? Because there's nothing that suggest Madara hit a part he wasn't blocking. That could have been due to the power behind his attack being to strong forcing him back..Like this

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.

OP: These 2 can never win against Hashirama.

I didn't say Madara hit a part that wasn't being blocked. Hashirama will though.

 

[Blaze Release]

Maybe i am confused, but im assuming when the OP said taijutsu only, it means medic ninjutsu, suika, chakra scapel and others are all restricted.
Dunno why people keep mentioning them.

Anyway i find it shocking, not, that people are casually saying hashirama wins when honestly he has 0 advantage here.
Perhaps a little advantage is that due to his huge reserves he'd probably be the one that can stay in sm the longest, if this fight was to go down to the wire.

Then again with kabuto's ability to constantly absorb natural energy it isn't so much of an advantage for hashirama.

Anyway he has barely any tai/ken feat.
The only one i remember was when he beat kid madara. And his kenjutsu feat, well he did carry one or two large swords at VOTE so im assuming he should be decent with them. But honestly with the restriction stated in the op. What we basically have are 3 sm users with pretty much identical abilities by virtue of being sage's, outside their ninjutsu's.

Hashirama holds 0 advantage over either and honestly i believe pitting either again't him with the exact same stipulation and it goes either way. Both Naruto and Kabuto on the same team and they win.

Kabuto may have shown us only sawarabi no mai ironically the only ninjutsu within the shikotsumyaku kg. However if hype was to proceed, there should be no reason why he cannot call upon the shikotsumyaku taijutsu based abilities, all of which are powered by sm.

Naruto also poses a threat through Kumite. Granted Hashirama another sm user should be able to see/sense it, however he'd still have to evde it completely and not block, whilst dealing with sm kabuto.

The team take it low to mid diff

 

[Draegod]

Maybe i am confused, but im assuming when the OP said taijutsu only, it means medic ninjutsu, suika, chakra scapel and others are all restricted.
Dunno why people keep mentioning them.

Anyway i find it shocking, not, that people are casually saying hashirama wins when honestly he has 0 advantage here.
Perhaps a little advantage is that due to his huge reserves he'd probably be the one that can stay in sm the longest, if this fight was to go down to the wire.

Then again with kabuto's ability to constantly absorb natural energy it isn't so much of an advantage for hashirama.

Anyway he has barely any tai/ken feat.
The only one i remember was when he beat kid madara. And his kenjutsu feat, well he did carry one or two large swords at VOTE so im assuming he should be decent with them. But honestly with the restriction stated in the op. What we basically have are 3 sm users with pretty much identical abilities by virtue of being sage's, outside their ninjutsu's.

Hashirama holds 0 advantage over either and honestly i believe pitting either again't him with the exact same stipulation and it goes either way. Both Naruto and Kabuto on the same team and they win.

Kabuto may have shown us only sawarabi no mai ironically the only ninjutsu within the shikotsumyaku kg. However if hype was to proceed, there should be no reason why he cannot call upon the shikotsumyaku taijutsu based abilities, all of which are powered by sm.

Naruto also poses a threat through Kumite. Granted Hashirama another sm user should be able to see/sense it, however he'd still have to evde it completely and not block, whilst dealing with sm kabuto.

The team take it low to mid diff

Abc logic hype is all they have to go by.

 

[KidGamer65]

Maybe i am confused, but im assuming when the OP said taijutsu only, it means medic ninjutsu, suika, chakra scapel and others are all restricted.
Dunno why people keep mentioning them.

Anyway i find it shocking, not, that people are casually saying hashirama wins when honestly he has 0 advantage here.
Perhaps a little advantage is that due to his huge reserves he'd probably be the one that can stay in sm the longest, if this fight was to go down to the wire.

Then again with kabuto's ability to constantly absorb natural energy it isn't so much of an advantage for hashirama.

Anyway he has barely any tai/ken feat.
The only one i remember was when he beat kid madara. And his kenjutsu feat, well he did carry one or two large swords at VOTE so im assuming he should be decent with them. But honestly with the restriction stated in the op. What we basically have are 3 sm users with pretty much identical abilities by virtue of being sage's, outside their ninjutsu's.

Hashirama holds 0 advantage over either and honestly i believe pitting either again't him with the exact same stipulation and it goes either way. Both Naruto and Kabuto on the same team and they win.

Kabuto may have shown us only sawarabi no mai ironically the only ninjutsu within the shikotsumyaku kg. However if hype was to proceed, there should be no reason why he cannot call upon the shikotsumyaku taijutsu based abilities, all of which are powered by sm.

Naruto also poses a threat through Kumite. Granted Hashirama another sm user should be able to see/sense it, however he'd still have to evde it completely and not block, whilst dealing with sm kabuto.

The team take it low to mid diff

Well yeah, if Kabuto is allowed his bone techniques they obviously win. But if that is restricted, and I'm 100% sure that's what OP wanted, they have no advantage and they definitely don't stand a chance at winning here for all the reasons stated. Not even sure how you came to the conclusion that Kabuto and especially Naruto would go head to head with Hashirama and win.

It doesn't affect shunshin speed but it does allow Madara to easily outmaneuver him when Naruto tries to block. Meaning Hashirama with swords would be able to land a fatal strike despite Naruto reacting.

Well yeah, assuming he's as fast as you think he is, which he isn't.

Blind Madara has no more Rikudou chakra than Edo Madara has, which is basically nothing. He has his own Indra chakra plus Hashirama's cells. In fact, he should have less Rikudou chakra than Edo Madara since he lacks EMS or Rinnegan meaning his own Indra chakra is weaker. That can be made up with by EMS which boosts his chakra potency.

LMFAOOOO

Are you joking? If this is what your whole argument is based on then this is a giant fail on your part. Why in the world are you using EDO MADARA as a benchmark for BLIND MADARA's power when Blind Madara and Edo Madara are far above each other in physical power.

1. Blind Madara's chakra>Edo Madara's chakra and don't try to tell me otherwise. Edo Madara's Susanoo is exactly the same as it was when he was alive.

2. Blind Madara's Susanoo is far stronger than a regular V3 Susanoo regardless of the Senjutsu, and I've already argued this with you so there should be no denying it this time around.

Manga made it pretty clear that Edo Madara doesn't receive the full benefits of his power, hence why Blind Madara's speed shits on anything edo Madara has ever done, and why he can use Limbo with his Rinnegan.

Pretty sure it does.

Base Hashirama=EMS Madara.
Base Hashirama<Edo Madara with Hashirama's DNA+Rinnegan.
Take away both Rinnegan. Madara is slightly above him now. Take away EMS too. They are more or less equal.
Now give Hashirama Sage Mode. He is>Blind Madara.

Terrible terrible terrible argument since Blind Madara>Edo Madara in every physical way. I'm not even sure why I have to explain this to you.

Reaction speed affects striking speed. Refer to Sasuke vs V1 Ay or Naruto vs 3rd Raikage. When SM Naruto tries to block, Hashirama outmaneuvers him in close combat and strikes a part of his body that he's not blocking. SM Hashirama is above or at least equal with blind Madara in shunshino Naruto gets cleaved in half by swords.

Then yeah, I agree aside from the last sentence, which you can't prove.

Maybe Hashirama doesn't blitz Naruto with no reaction, but nothing Naruto does is going to protect himself. The amount of Hagomoro's power Madara has here is practically nothing, so I don't get why you're mentioning it like it's a game changer. If Danzo beat MS Sasuke and got his eyes, he'd have the same boost of Rikudou power as Madara does here since Danzo would have Indra chakra plus Hashirama's cells. That doesn't let him jump to a point where he's physically better than SM Hashirama in any aspect.

Nnot even sure if you are serious with the last part of your post.

Madara>>>Danzo, so if they get the same boost, Madara will still be >>>Danzo. Madara being superior with the boost means that Madara is superior with the boost. Danzo being inferior with the boost isn't going to make him as strong as someone who got the same power.

Stop giving Blind Madara with Rikudo's chakra's feats to Hashirama.