[Discussion] Does God have a plan?

[OG sama]

The answer is incest.

I have to suffer because Eve ate an apple when God said not to? Seems fair.

I know it seems unfair man but some things you just got to get over. Its not like you don't have a choice to go to Heaven or Hell when you die, you still have a chance to live with God in a place where there is no more pain, or no more sorrow. But you got to have faith in him and believe and repent, confess, and be baptized,live a sinless life, spread the word of God to the world.

 

[Multiply]

They're both sins. God allowed incest to happen back then so the world would flourish, you have to remember Adam and Eve were the first Humans. Their children would have had to do incest, but since the world is full of people now, there is no need for sister and brother or cousin to be sleeping with each other.

Wait, so God changed his mind about a sin? God can change his mind about sins? God is starting to sound like Jeremy from

You must be registered for see links

...

 

[OG sama]

Yeah, but crimes aren't genetic. Great times a billion grandma and grandpa have allready been punished. It's nonsensical for a supposedly benevolent god not to see that.

He does see it, its just that God wants you to believe in what you can't see by trusting what he has wrote in his book. He wants you to have faith, Jesus says, "Blessed are those who do not see me but still believe."

 

[Ansatsuken]

For the Noah flood incident, its not just bible's story but also Quran's story. God have warned them even God's prophet(Noah) already warned his "ummah" about the consiquences if they(wicked society) still continue with their action.

Yes, the flood kill large numbers of human but later in after life, they will be revive back by God. They are not turning into wastefull life. Children that died from that event will directly sent into Heaven. A better place than this earth. For people that said God was immoral here need to think back their words.

Why those child get sent directly into Heaven, its bcus they not yet inside the position for God to count their sins(not puberty yet). Different situation will be experience by Adult or Older people there. Before God drop the punishment(massive flood) to Noah "ummah", countless of warning/advices were given to them. But they chose to ignored it. For the people here that said God never shows it power directly infront of human is wrong. Thousands years ago, society at that time especially Abrahamic God believers get a chance to see God's power but not the God itself unlike current society.

God will not change people if they never want to change them selves. Thats the proof God gave human free Will. God gave them free Will. And according to their Will, they chose not to accept God warning or never want to take a "right pathway of life". Their Free Will bring them to their demise from the face of earth.

 

[Multiply]

He does see it, its just that God wants you to believe in what you can't see by trusting what he has wrote in his book. He wants you to have faith, Jesus says, "Blessed are those who do not see me but still believe."

In other words, he sees it he simply just doesn't care. He just wants blind faith because... Why not?

 

[Your Creepy Stalker]

He does see it, its just that God wants you to believe in what you can't see by trusting what he has wrote in his book. He wants you to have faith, Jesus says, "Blessed are those who do not see me but still believe."

So god can see the immense flaw in his own logic but refuses to just snap his fingers and make it right?

 

[Punk Hazard]

In other words, he sees it he simply just doesn't care. He just wants blind faith because... Why not?

I wonder if bank robbers who threaten to kill the clerk if they don't give them the money can get the clerk arrested as an accomplice by telling the cops they chose to give them the money out of free will.

 

[Multiply]

So god can see the immense flaw in his own logic but refuses to just snap his fingers and make it right?

Makes too much sense.

I wonder if bank robbers who threaten to kill the clerk if they don't give them the money can get the clerk arrested as an accomplice by telling the cops they chose to give them the money out of free will.

Lmao true. Isn't that person also sinning according to the ten commandments?
"Thou shall not steal."
Aren't they stealing money from the bank they work at and giving it to the robber?

 

[Ansatsuken]

Wait, so God changed his mind about a sin? God can change his mind about sins? God is starting to sound like Jeremy from

You must be registered for see links

...

God is a God. Sure he can overule everything plus he can see every outcomes of futures. God will call something as prohibited/sin if something out of control and future human must avoid it.

 

[Your Creepy Stalker]

God is a God. Sure he can overule everything plus he can see every outcomes of futures. God will call something as prohibited/sin if something out of control and future human must avoid it.

Can anything be "Out of Control" to an omnipotent being?

 

[Punk Hazard]

God is a God. Sure he can overule everything plus he can see every outcomes of futures. God will call something as prohibited/sin if something out of control and future human must avoid it.

Wait, but if adhering to sin is bad, and God told us to adhere to sin for our own benefit, then isn't he just as bad as Satan when he told us to sin by eating the apple and gaining wisdom and opening our eyes, something that was adhering to sin for our own benefit

 

[OG sama]

GET OVER IT? GET OVER DEATH, SUFFERING, RAPE, DISEASE, AGING, MURDER, AND GENERAL EVIL? ***** IF I CAN GET OVER ALL THAT SHIT, WHY CAN'T GOD GET OVER EVE EATING THAT APPLE

z.z

Maybe I said that wrong, no you don't have to get over having to suffer, you should just get over God getting over a promise he made. You need to pray for the world when its messed up and for yourself when your suffering. God can make things better if you pray to him.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Maybe I said that wrong, no you don't have to get over having to suffer, you should just get over God getting over a promise he made. You need to pray for the world when its messed up and for yourself when your suffering. God can make things better if you pray to him.

I've seen my devout, spiritual Christian family members pray during their suffering and either die from it or watch it get worse. Get the **** out of my face with this bullshit. You know how many people pray each day, and still die? Not only die, but suffer as they do? Oh yeah, praying to God will fix everything. That explains why it has.

 

[Ansatsuken]

Can anything be "Out of Control" to an omnipotent being?

Not on God part but human part. God already saw the problem(regarding of health and genetic effect) with incest even before its happen. For new kind of Human after Adam and Eve generations, the health problem/affect to genes maybe not to prevalent.

Wait, but if adhering to sin is bad, and God told us to adhere to sin for our own benefit, then isn't he just as bad as Satan when he told us to sin by eating the apple and gaining wisdom and opening our eyes, something that was adhering to sin for our own benefit

God already gave them warning unless God never told anything, you can called God is bad. You also will talked bad to official that charge you with a punishment when you never get any early notice.

 

[OG sama]

I've seen my devout, spiritual Christian family members pray during their suffering and either die from it or watch it get worse. Get the **** out of my face with this bullshit. You know how many people pray each day, and still die? Not only die, but suffer as they do? Oh yeah, praying to God will fix everything. That explains why it has.

You don't get it. You see you just don't get it do you? Your family dying is one thing, but you don't want your family to die SPIRITUALLY. Your family members may have died, but God can answer their prayer by sending them to Heaven, a place where they won't have to ever suffer again. But if you forsake God, you will die in your sins and you will still suffer.

Your upset about merely the death of your family members, them dying in the flesh. When you should be more worried about their Spiritual well being, their souls, the place they are going to spend ETERNITY.

 

[Punk Hazard]

You don't get it. You see you just don't get it do you? Your family dying is one thing, but you don't want your family to die SPIRITUALLY. Your family members may have died, but God can answer their prayer by sending them to Heaven, a place where they won't have to ever suffer again. But if you forsake God, you will die in your sins and you will still suffer.

Your upset about merely the death of your family members, them dying in the flesh. When you should be more worried about their Spiritual well being, their souls, the place they are going to spend ETERNITY.

Seeing as the Bible says the dead are conscious of nothing and makes it clear several times that only 144,000 selected anointed ones will go to heaven after Judgement Day, I doubt this.

 

[Aim64C]

Murder isn't always the solution, especially when you're God and have all the powers of the universe.

God may be limitless.

People, however, are a bit less flexible.

But you fantasize about being the architect of a religious genocide so maybe brutish thug solutions are just a natural thing with you.

Your tongue can get you into trouble when speaking to dragons.

Termites.

How do you deal with them... and why is it so important to deal with them?

Termites do what they do, and there is no way to render a termite into anything other than a termite. If you wish to keep your home - you are force to make a decision with a cost that is not negotiable.

It was already established that for God to have a plan for humanity, they are already deprived of that free will as they are simply flying down a track of inevitability.

I have a plan for how my books are going to end. The middle is an ever changing sand where the characters actually behave in ways that were not planned. Yet, the end is very much planned.

If, even within the limited constraints of my mind, characters have an aspect of freedom from a conceived fate - then why is it so difficult to believe that a plan for humanity equates to an elimination of free will - especially since that end is planned around who their characters are?

Also how is it depriving people of free will? They chose to go against what I taught them in my holy books and sermons(Yeah, I actually make contact with my slav- followers), thus they face consequences. The same way God did it in Sodom and Gomorrah. However, his punishments are way harsher than mine.

So, when someone makes the decision to enter into a cult, believes in raping people, etc ... and you suddenly decide to undo that decision for them and make them adopt other convictions and choices... that's NOT a violation of free will?

If all of a person's free actions are negated by the passing of your judgment and they will never experience anything other than perfectly lawful and peaceful behavior... then why are they even alive in the first place? None of their decisions matter. They don't even understand when they have broken a law as any decision that would result in breaking the law is reversed and changed....

May as well just kill them, as their life as anything other than a puppet is gone.

His ideology is follow my rule or rot in hell.
My ideology is follow my rule or be put on the right path.

Be careful repeating what forked tongues tell you.

You are repeating what we call: "dogma." Institutions of man have long used the threat of eternal suffering for breaking certain rules. The problem is finding these things in the Bible - and good luck finding where God is directly saying some of these things.

Further, Jesus spoke of two different 'hells.' Or, rather, when speaking of the Pharisee, he spoke of "absolute damnation" - because they were corrupting the teachings and laws to enrich themselves. This is opposed to a 'hell' that is a sort of state of suffering (which is often within the context of someone doing foolish things and suffering the consequences of being a fool, or of regretting actions taken) - which is not meant to be an eternal state, but still one that most would want to avoid.

Further - you are not putting people on the right path. You are simply creating things that you direct as you desire. They have no free will as you simply correct anything they do that you don't like. Honestly - sounds like you've built a micromanagement hell for yourself where the people are simply expressions of your own ego.

So when a pedophile rapes and murders a baby, God doesn't stop it because he values the free will of that raping, murdering pedophile over the baby's safety?

Isn't that person making the decision to rape and murder a baby? The person is far more intricate than simply the act of raping and murdering. Just as you are. Sexual impulses exist within you - and you are constantly trying to put those impulses into context within the world around you. Some people fail... and others do make the decision to embrace intolerable expressions of that impulse.

The point is that you make mistakes, as well. You break rules you set for yourself, even.

Free will as a concept is free will. You don't get to go in and micro-manage thought processes to exclude certain freedoms of thought and will without setting off a cascade of other problems that ends up imploding the concept of free will. People can choose to do horrible things, and direct intervention every time everyone turns around is just a bad idea.

Even Futurama got that right.

Are you comparing real life God to villains in a fictional universe about space travel.

I'm saying that your description of how God would act is virtually identical to the concept of The Borg - a villainous race of forced-cybernetic drone-slaves that conformed everyone to the same goal/purpose. This was, also, against the backdrop of the good guys striving for galactic peace and harmony between feuding races. That the progressive authors of the series recognized the Borg as villains despite the fact that the Borg accomplish the stated goal of the good guys should speak to the depth of which your idea is flawed.

 

[OG sama]

Seeing as the Bible says the dead are conscious of nothing and makes it clear several times that only 144,000 selected anointed ones will go to heaven after Judgement Day, I doubt this.

144,000? Please dont go pulling random numbers out of your ass please. The dead who are conscious of nothing at least still aren't suffering.

The ones who are conscious of themselves are the ones who are suffering in hell being constantly reminded why they are there.

Which do you prefer? You want to remember all the bad things that happened on Earth or do you want to have fun with your savior in Heaven.

 

[Punk Hazard]

144,000? Please dont go pulling random numbers out of your ass please. The dead who are conscious of nothing at least still aren't suffering.

The ones who are conscious of themselves are the ones who are suffering in hell being constantly reminded why they are there.

Which do you prefer? You want to remember all the bad things that happened on Earth or do you want to have fun with your savior in Heaven.

Revelation 14:3-5King James Version (KJV)

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

Ps. 37:29: “The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it.”

God may be limitless.

People, however, are a bit less flexible.



Your tongue can get you into trouble when speaking to dragons.

Termites.

How do you deal with them... and why is it so important to deal with them?

Termites do what they do, and there is no way to render a termite into anything other than a termite. If you wish to keep your home - you are force to make a decision with a cost that is not negotiable.



I have a plan for how my books are going to end. The middle is an ever changing sand where the characters actually behave in ways that were not planned. Yet, the end is very much planned.

If, even within the limited constraints of my mind, characters have an aspect of freedom from a conceived fate - then why is it so difficult to believe that a plan for humanity equates to an elimination of free will - especially since that end is planned around who their characters are?



So, when someone makes the decision to enter into a cult, believes in raping people, etc ... and you suddenly decide to undo that decision for them and make them adopt other convictions and choices... that's NOT a violation of free will?

If all of a person's free actions are negated by the passing of your judgment and they will never experience anything other than perfectly lawful and peaceful behavior... then why are they even alive in the first place? None of their decisions matter. They don't even understand when they have broken a law as any decision that would result in breaking the law is reversed and changed....

May as well just kill them, as their life as anything other than a puppet is gone.



Be careful repeating what forked tongues tell you.

You are repeating what we call: "dogma." Institutions of man have long used the threat of eternal suffering for breaking certain rules. The problem is finding these things in the Bible - and good luck finding where God is directly saying some of these things.

Further, Jesus spoke of two different 'hells.' Or, rather, when speaking of the Pharisee, he spoke of "absolute damnation" - because they were corrupting the teachings and laws to enrich themselves. This is opposed to a 'hell' that is a sort of state of suffering (which is often within the context of someone doing foolish things and suffering the consequences of being a fool, or of regretting actions taken) - which is not meant to be an eternal state, but still one that most would want to avoid.

Further - you are not putting people on the right path. You are simply creating things that you direct as you desire. They have no free will as you simply correct anything they do that you don't like. Honestly - sounds like you've built a micromanagement hell for yourself where the people are simply expressions of your own ego.



Isn't that person making the decision to rape and murder a baby? The person is far more intricate than simply the act of raping and murdering. Just as you are. Sexual impulses exist within you - and you are constantly trying to put those impulses into context within the world around you. Some people fail... and others do make the decision to embrace intolerable expressions of that impulse.

The point is that you make mistakes, as well. You break rules you set for yourself, even.

Free will as a concept is free will. You don't get to go in and micro-manage thought processes to exclude certain freedoms of thought and will without setting off a cascade of other problems that ends up imploding the concept of free will. People can choose to do horrible things, and direct intervention every time everyone turns around is just a bad idea.

Even Futurama got that right.



I'm saying that your description of how God would act is virtually identical to the concept of The Borg - a villainous race of forced-cybernetic drone-slaves that conformed everyone to the same goal/purpose. This was, also, against the backdrop of the good guys striving for galactic peace and harmony between feuding races. That the progressive authors of the series recognized the Borg as villains despite the fact that the Borg accomplish the stated goal of the good guys should speak to the depth of which your idea is flawed.

God has the power to preven it from happening, stopping a heinous and traumatizing event from taking place. You're saying he doesn't because he has to uphold the concept of free will. In that case, God values the free will of a murdering pedophile rapist because by not preventing it, he has chosen to uphold the free will over upholding the baby's safety.

 

[OG sama]

Revelation 14:3-5King James Version (KJV)

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

Ps. 37:29: “The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it.”


God has the power to preven it from happening, stopping a heinous and traumatizing event from taking place. You're saying he doesn't because he has to uphold the concept of free will. In that case, God values the free will of a murdering pedophile rapist because by not preventing it, he has chosen to uphold the free will over upholding the baby's safety.

Sorry about you talking out of your ass. But still, only 144,000 people going to Heaven is false, the book of revelation talks in apocalyptic writing. With most types of writing, the reader is to take statements literally unless the context demands a symbolic interpretation. In apocalyptic writing, the reader is to take things figuratively unless the context demands a literal interpretation. Therefore, in Revelation,we see Jesus as a lamb and so forth. If we were to take Revelation 7:4-8 literally, then only male virgins from the twelve tribes of Israel would be in heaven. No one believes this, which makes taking the 144,000 who were sealed literally to be completely inconsistent.

Don't be fooled, a lot aren't going but also a lot are. Enough for me and you and your family to have a chance. But no one knows the exact number but God.