Storm 4 Itachi vs BM Minato

[shelke]

I said the same

Yeah and its Itachi's eyes Physically read my Post again :|
He clearly states eyes :|

No. If the mask analogy doesn't do it for you, nothing will.

The eyes are attached to his body thus the chakra from his chakra network flows into them. Similar to how madaras can use susanoo without eyes. Because sharingans power comes from the brains chakra network.

Not to mention he was using KA. Who else uses KA other than Shisui? No one.

 

[Zealous Sparks]

and your point here is :|

He is talking about ocular gejutsu and u cannot cast Ocular genjutsu without Eyes.He clearly and specifically points out "Even his Right Eye"

The point is eyes can't be used without being attached to a chakra network. Ao uses the byakugan to see chakra points.
He's talking about chakra color which he relates to shisui thats it. Right shoulder, arm, and even his right eye.. its all the same chakra throughout his body. The eyes are nothing different

 

[BLAZE]

No. If the mask analogy doesn't do it for you, nothing will.

yes they are Itachi's eyes physically
Sasuke points out multiple times

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He's talking about chakra color which he relates to shisui thats it.

Well Obito's vision was Connected to Kakashi becoz he had his eye so obviously its not only about color of chakra

 

[shelke]

yes they are Itachi's eyes physically
Sasuke points out multiple times

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[KidGamer65]

Do you mean Sasuke replaced Itachi's eyes with his own eyes to merge their Chakra's? I thought the eyes themselves were merged...(the whole eye sacrifice thing & four eyed mask...)

The eyes themselves aren't merged. EMS is stated to be a transplant multiple times. The four eyed mask is only a visual representation of someone obtaining the power of both sets of eyes. The four eyed mask doesn't even lean towards a fusion of the eyeballs if you want to look at it from a literal view, which you shouldn't.

 

[Lord Tywin]

:lol

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[Zealous Sparks]

Well Obito's vision was Connected to Kakashi becoz he had his eye so obviously its not only about color of chakra

What are you trying to say. When u have someone elses eye it connects both of your visions?

 

[BLAZE]

Really, Sasuke actually saw the surgery and the process, when the guy was blind? Again, the fusion covers it up. The mask needs four MS sacrifices for the single pair. Which would mean all four eyes are rendered useless after the fusion to create a pair that houses the lingering effects of both pairs.

I cannot make this simple enough. So yes, Sasuke would feel and see Itachi's memories as well. Those eyes are, in a way, his and Itachi's.

As i said yes EMS is combination of both their mangekyo's and boosts sasuke's ocular power but Physically its Itachi's eyes

Without Itachi's eyes he cannot gain EMS and vice versa

What are you trying to say. When u have someone elses eye it connects both of your visions?

No The sharingan still has chakra of Original user when transplanted thus its connected to them

 

[Zealous Sparks]

As i said yes EMS is combination of both their mangekyo's and boosts sasuke's ocular power but Physically its Itachi's eyes

Without Itachi's eyes he cannot gain EMS and vice versa
No The sharingan still has chakra of Original user when transplanted thus its connected to them

The to processes are different is what I'm saying. Gaining ems and transplanting ms are separate processes which yield different results. For instance obito and kakashi both have obito's kamui. sasuke doesn't have itachi's jutsu


*if were being honest the whole ems fusion / transplant however u intrepret that makes 0 sense cause its so vague and never flat out explained

 

[Lord Tywin]

*if were being honest the whole ems fusion / transplant however u intrepret that makes 0 sense cause its so vague and never flat out explained

Except nowhere in the manga talks about a fusion of eyes. :lol

 

[BLAZE]

The to processes are different is what I'm saying. Gaining ems and transplanting ms are separate processes which yield different results. For instance obito and kakashi both have obito's kamui. sasuke doesn't have itachi's jutsu

and EMS is itself MS transplant between two siblings

and i m not denying the results are different but still Sasuke's eyes after transplant are Physically Itachi's Eyes[he himself stated it] and thus it has his chakra

 

[shelke]

As i said yes EMS is combination of both their mangekyo's and boosts sasuke's ocular power but Physically its Itachi's eyes

Without Itachi's eyes he cannot gain EMS and vice versa

Where did I say he can? Where did I say Itachi's eyes have no role in creating one?

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Then we have the pattern fusion / overlapping as well:

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At best, I can give the other side a benefit of the doubt, given that the manga never elaborates on the process. Nor does the databook refute it.

 

[Lord Tywin]

Rest in peace

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[Zealous Sparks]

Except nowhere in the manga talks about a fusion of eyes. :lol

If this is true though itachi and sasuke could technically swap eyes and both gain ems right?

and EMS is itself MS transplant between two siblings

and i m not denying the results are different but still Sasuke's eyes after transplant are Physically Itachi's Eyes[he himself stated it] and thus it has his chakra

There his eyes but there just eyes. Not connected to any chakra source. Are your saying itachi's eyes contain all his chakra.

 

[Lord Tywin]

If this is true though itachi and sasuke could technically swap eyes and both gain ems right?



There his eyes but there just eyes. Not connected to any chakra source. Are your saying itachi's eyes contain all his chakra.

Why not?

 

[BLAZE]

There his eyes but there just eyes. Not connected to any chakra source. Are your saying itachi's eyes contain all his chakra.

Not all but some the reason it actually fuses to give EMS pattern or it will Just have Sasuke's MS pattern

 

[KidGamer65]

The to processes are different is what I'm saying. Gaining ems and transplanting ms are separate processes which yield different results. For instance obito and kakashi both have obito's kamui. sasuke doesn't have itachi's jutsu


*if were being honest the whole ems fusion / transplant however u intrepret that makes 0 sense cause its so vague and never flat out explained

You keep repeating the bold without realizing that you aren't even answering the actual argument. :lol Simply amazing. You keep saying "he doesn't have Itachi's jutsu" as if that matters. He got Itachi's power, and the only thing in Itachi's eyes are his chakra. Just how Shisui's chakra remains in his eye after Danzo takes it. This:

The point is eyes can't be used without being attached to a chakra network. Ao uses the byakugan to see chakra points.
He's talking about chakra color which he relates to shisui thats it. Right shoulder, arm, and even his right eye.. its all the same chakra throughout his body. The eyes are nothing different

Makes no sense for the simple reason that you are actually sitting here insinuating that despite it being the same color as Shisui's chakra, it is actually Danzo's chakra.

1. Danzo's chakra and Shisui's chakra obviously aren't going to have the same color.
2. If all the chakra was the same color, Ao wouldn't have picked out 3 areas where the chakra was "shisui's". If it was all the same chakra, it'd all be the same color.

 

[shelke]

Rest in peace

It's hilarious that this statement still doesn't refute the fusion argument. Not to mention these facts:

- He can't use Itachi's jutsus.
- He uses genjutsu and amaterasu from the eyes different than Itachi's: left Itachi and right Sasuke (Genjutsu), Vice-versa for Amaterasu.
- The only thing he retains are his memories.
- Several people had MS in the past, yet Sasuke is the second person to achieve EMS, since it's as easy as eye-swapping. In that case, every generation should have several EMS users:

Uchiha bro 1: "Hey bro, my eyes are, like, getting misty. Let's switch."
Uchiha bro 2: "My man, you shouldn't have gone emo-mode too often. But, a'right."
Uchiha bro 1: "Bro-fist, comheye!"

Two Eternal Sharingans.

 

[Zealous Sparks]

Why not?

lol

Not all but some the reason it actually fuses to give EMS pattern or it will Just have Sasuke's MS pattern

And you think thats where the boost ems gives sasuke is from?

You keep repeating the bold without realizing that you aren't even answering the actual argument. :lol Simply amazing. You keep saying "he doesn't have Itachi's jutsu" as if that matters. He got Itachi's power, and the only thing in Itachi's eyes are his chakra. Just how Shisui's chakra remains in his eye after Danzo takes it. This:

Do you really not see the difference.... Danzo is legitimately gaining shisui jutsu. Sasuke isnt.

Makes no sense for the simple reason that you are actually sitting here insinuating that despite it being the same color as Shisui's chakra, it is actually Danzo's chakra.

1. Danzo's chakra and Shisui's chakra obviously aren't going to have the same color.
2. If all the chakra was the same color, Ao wouldn't have picked out 3 areas where the chakra was "shisui's". If it was all the same chakra, it'd all be the same color.

The difference between this argument and the ems one is sasuke can't use itachi's jutsu. Danzo has doujutsu and chakra. If sasuke has itachi's chakra and eyes why cant he do what danzo does. Hence why gaining ems is different

*Im not denying theres a power difference from ems to ms but saying it comes from the chakra in itachi's eyes makes little sense since that would make itachi loose the majority of his chakra from being eyeless

 

[Lord Tywin]

I don't know what's so hard to understand here. Every time the characters say it as a transplant and taking the eyes, and no talk of fusion is ever brought up.