Storm 4 Itachi vs BM Minato

[KidGamer65]

EMS sasuke > MS sasuke in what exactly . Last time I checked ems only grants eye change, freedom from blindness and strain from using ms techs

1. Ability to manifest PS.

2.

You must be registered for see images

I really can't deal with you people. :lol. Things that should be picked up on by simply reading the Manga are the same things I have to repeat multiple times. And no ignoring this isn't going to make it disappear.

You say this in multiple posts, but I'm curious what makes you say that?

We only saw Itachi use susano'o twice, once when he was pretty much dead and then as an Edo, both times they were on par with Sasuke's to say the least.

How can you compare his ribcage feats with that of Madara when neither were hit with the same attacks? Itachi's negated Kirin which was the only time we saw it used. You can't gauge the destructive power of Kirin based on one attack that was blocked, nor can you gauge the defensive abilities of Itachi's ribcage based on being able to defend Kirin.

And since when does Sasuke rib feats = Itachi's?

As far as this matchup is concerned, he has PS. According to the game, all PS is the same size, indicating similar destructive/defensive abilities, even manga proves that with susano'o

EDIT: throw on the fact that he has Totsuka which by DB is greater than PS sword and Yata which by DB is the ultimate defence, his PS is unbeatable.

And I literally just explained 2 posts ago why Itachi's Susanoo is nowhere near the level of Madara's. Read that and then either counter or concede.

The bold is probably the most inept thing on this thread. Rikudo Sasuke, EMS Madara, Kakashi and JJ Madara's Susanoo are all the same size. By your terrible logic they'd all have similar destructive and defensive power. Smh. Let's be 100% serious.

-Proof for Totsuka>PS's slash? None.
-Proof that isn't hyperbole for Yata tanking all? None as usual.

 

[Zealous Sparks]

1. Ability to manifest PS.

2.

You must be registered for see images

I really can't deal with you people. :lol. Things that should be picked up on by simply reading the Manga are the same things I have to repeat multiple times. And no ignoring this isn't going to make it disappear.

lmaooo
Keep in mind we are are talking about itachi having a PS. If he has it from ems we have no reason to belive it will be inferior to sasukes. This is Itachis PS if he were to unlock it. Hypothetical.

You keep posting that pic as if it proves something. Power can be interpreted in a myriad of ways. You chakra potency theory being one of them.

 

[KidGamer65]

lmaooo
Keep in mind we are are talking about itachi having a PS. If he has it from ems we have no reason to belive it will be inferior to sasukes. This is Itachis PS if he were to unlock it. Hypothetical.

You keep posting that pic as if it proves something. Power can be interpreted in a myriad of ways. You chakra potency theory being one of them.

Except he doesn't. Where in the world did Storm 4 say he has EMS? He only has PS. EMS does not come with PS nor do you need it to awaken PS. If he did have EMS, from getting Sasuke's eyes, then his Susanoo would be equal or a bit weaker than Sasuke's, but still worlds apart from Madara's which is the whole argument here.

Wrong. Power can only be interpreted in one way when it comes to Dojutsu. You claiming otherwise and literally have nothing to back it doesn't help your already weak case.

-It's not referring to abilities.
-Dojutsu has already been stated to give you chakra. Obito stated that there was a strong chakra inside of Madara's Rinnegan.

So why don't you tell me what "power" means. I'll wait.

 

[Zealous Sparks]

Except he doesn't. Where in the world did Storm 4 say he has EMS? He only has PS. EMS does not come with PS nor do you need it to awaken PS. If he did have EMS, from getting Sasuke's eyes, then his Susanoo would be equal or a bit weaker than Sasuke's, but still worlds apart from Madara's which is the whole argument here.

I never said he had ems I said the PS design was hypothetical for if he was able to use PS with ems or not.
"1. Ability to manifest PS." <-- this came from you

Wrong. Power can only be interpreted in one way when it comes to Dojutsu. You claiming otherwise and literally have nothing to back it doesn't help your already weak case.

-It's not referring to abilities.
-Dojutsu has already been stated to give you chakra. Obito stated that there was a strong chakra inside of Madara's Rinnegan.

So why don't you tell me what "power" means. I'll wait.

No power is an abstract noun it can mean many things. Like the power that ems gives you for example ( the blindness issue, eye strain, form PS ). Vague
Your trying to say he gains all of itachi chakra potency from his eyes lol.

So obito has halfl of madara's chakra potency when he has rinnegan? He's definitely talking about the ability to use path tech's and only the original user using it to its fullest potential.

 

[KidGamer65]

No power is an abstract noun it can mean many things. Like the power that ems gives you for example ( the blindness issue, eye strain, form PS ). Vague
Your trying to say he gains all of itachi chakra potency from his eyes lol.

Except that's not Itachi's power. :lol. Nice try though. You've pretty much revealed that you have nothing left but nonsense argumentation in an attempt to prove your ridiculous point. I just pray that someone else has something worth replying to for the sake of your side's argument.

So obito has halfl of madara's chakra potency when he has rinnegan? He's definitely talking about the ability to use path tech's and only the original user using it to its fullest potential.

L2Read. I clearly stated that the Rinnegan contains an extremely powerful chakra in it, and that's what Obito got. Where the did I say half? Smh. And really now?

You must be registered for see images

When will you pull your head out of your arse and learn how to debate honestly and correctly? Kishi draws a filler PS for Itachi and all his fans go full retard. :lol

 

[Astarte]

Reading KG's posts like

You must be registered for see images

 

[Zealous Sparks]

Except that's not Itachi's power. :lol. Nice try though. You've pretty much revealed that you have nothing left but nonsense argumentation in an attempt to prove your ridiculous point. I just pray that someone else has something worth replying to for the sake of your side's argument.

lmaooooo wow what are you doing m8
I clearly telling you what ems grants a user. I never said itachi had that power.

L2Read. I clearly stated that the Rinnegan contains an extremely powerful chakra in it, and that's what Obito got. Where the did I say half? Smh. And really now?

You must be registered for see images

When will you pull your head out of your arse and learn how to debate honestly and correctly? Kishi draws a filler PS for Itachi and all his fans go full retard. :lol

Your ridiculous argument is that ems sasuke = itachi + sasuke in chakra potency . Theres 2 eyes m8. Obito has one of madara's rinnegans thats why I said half.
Thats not helping your argument m8. EMS process is clearly different than gaining a rinnegan which gives you the ability and chakra to use its techniques.

I don't see sasuke using tsukuyomi since you think itachi eyes give him his chakra lol. Flaw in your argument

 

[KidGamer65]

lmaooooo wow what are you doing m8
I clearly telling you what ems grants a user. I never said itachi had that power.

And I don't care what EMS grants a user because this argument is about what the following scan means.

You must be registered for see images

And that's his CHAKRA. HIS POWER. Period. Has nothing to do with anything you listed.

Your ridiculous argument is that ems sasuke = itachi + sasuke in chakra potency . Theres 2 eyes m8. Obito has one of madara's rinnegans thats why I said half.

I never said that Sasuke obtained Itachi's full chakra power. Probably did though considering Sasuke went from using a tiny V4 Susanoo to using Kurama Avatar sized PS.

That not helping your argument m8. EMS process is clearly different than gaining a rinnegan which gives you the ability and chakra to use its techniques.

No it's not.

-Sasuke gets Itachi's eyes.
-Sasuke gets Itachi's chakra power in addition to his own.
-Thus EMS Sasuke>>MS Sasuke in every single way.

-Obito gets Madara's Rinnegan.
-Rinnegan grants extremely powerful chakra.
-Thus Rinnegan Obito>>MS Obito in every single way.

I don't see sasuke using tsukuyomi since you think itachi eyes give him his chakra lol. Its flawed cause sasuke does gain itachi tsukuyomi jutsu.

I didn't know that getting Itachi's chakra=Getting Itachi's jutsu. Ah! Oh wait!

You pulled that out of your ass. At this point you should probably either start replying with stuff that makes sense, or stop replying altogether. :lol. You completely derailed this argument into something else since you couldn't prove your main points that:

-Itachi wins.
-Itachi's PS=Madara's PS.

 

[Sithis]

2.

I really can't deal with you people. . Things that should be picked up on by simply reading the Manga are the same things I have to repeat multiple times. And no ignoring this isn't going to make it disappear.

This is just your interpretation of said quote. If he truly had all of Itachi's power, he would be able to use tsukuyomi, which he can't

And I literally just explained 2 posts ago why Itachi's Susanoo is nowhere near the level of Madara's. Read that and then either counter or concede.

No you didn't.

Your entire argument is based on a personal interpretation of a single quote and an idea that you can't even prove. Nothing you have, countered what i said about rib cage, nobody else here mentioned that specific point either, so don't flatter yourself.

Nothing supports your notion of chakra potency, there is no evidence to prove that Sasuke's chakra > Itachi's. If you still don't realize that Itachi had a disease and was also suffering under MS strain, and that it was noting to do with his chakra, then we have nothing further to discuss.

In fact Sasuke went nearly blind after fighting Danzo, while Itachi spent half his life using MS. Which further contradicts your notion of chakra potency.

And lastly if you did not realize that we are talking about the games PS, hence using the games PS scales and values, then like I said we have nothing further to discuss

The bold is probably the most inept thing on this thread. Rikudo Sasuke, EMS Madara, Kakashi and JJ Madara's Susanoo are all the same size. By your terrible logic they'd all have similar destructive and defensive power. Smh. Let's be 100% serious.

And lastly if you did not realize that we are talking about the games PS, hence using the games PS scales and values, then like I said we have nothing further to discuss

But I guess the fact that 3 other members already pointed that out is irrelevant?

-Proof for Totsuka>PS's slash? None.
-Proof that isn't hyperbole for Yata tanking all? None as usual

.

Yata has a 100% success rate and also DB support, you can desperatley ignore that but then you might as well just stop arguing.

You're the one that has to prove it can't....

 

[KidGamer65]

This is just your interpretation of said quote. If he truly had all of Itachi's power, he would be able to use tsukuyomi, which he can't

Itachi's chakra is not the same as Itachi's jutsu. Not even sure where you people are getting this nonsense from but it's definitely not from the Manga. You two whine about how "blah blah different interpretations" even though you literally have no interpretation of your own. Manga has shown that gaining the Dojutsu of someone also comes along with their chakra. Sasuke outright states that he has Itachi's power. Power and Chakra have been used interchangeably multiple times in the Manga if you bothered to read. You two have no point. This debate shouldn't have stretched this far.

No you didn't.

Excellent counter.

Your entire argument is based on a personal interpretation of a single quote and an idea that you can't even prove. Nothing you have, countered what i said about rib cage, nobody else here mentioned that specific point either, so don't flatter yourself.

Also a very excellent counter. I'll take this as a concession though since you obviously have no idea what the hell you are talking about, but considering the quality of your posts I can't really be surprised. So allow me to offer a helping hand.

Spoiler

Fact 1: Sasuke's PS=Naruto's BM in durability, strength and speed.

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

Fact 2: Regular Senjutsu=Regular Senjutsu.

Thus anything that is equal to Naruto's Avatar in durability is automatically equal to Sasuke's PS in durability, strength and speed.

-We have Sasuke's Complete Susanoo boosted by Kyuubi and Naruto's power and Senjutsu, shown as equals in durability, speed and strength to Naruto's Avatar.

You must be registered for see links

You must be registered for see links

-Subtract Senjutsu from both, and you have something equal to Sasuke's PS, and something equal to the BM Avatar.

-KCC Senjutsu Susanoo=BSM Avatar>BM Avatar=KCC Susanoo=Sasuke's PS in durability, strength and speed.

-That was destroyed by a drop slam, thus said drop slam would obliterate Sasuke's PS and probably kill him since he lacks Senjutsu here.

-Madara's Susanoo canonically protected him, without injury, from a far stronger technique.

-Thus in terms of physical ability and durability:

-Madara's PS>>>Sasuke's PS with Senjutsu=Naruto's BSM Avatar>Sasuke's PS w/o Senjutsu=Naruto's BM Avatar.

-EMS Sasuke is Itachi+Sasuke when it comes to chakra power.

You must be registered for see images

-Susanoo's power is dependent on chakra power. Stronger chakra=Stronger Susanoo.

Thus Madara's PS>>>Sasuke's PS w/ Senjutsu=Naruto's BSM Avatar>Sasuke's PS=Naruto's BM Avatar>Itachi's PS.

Nothing supports your notion of chakra potency, there is no evidence to prove that Sasuke's chakra > Itachi's. If you still don't realize that Itachi had a disease and was also suffering under MS strain, and that it was noting to do with his chakra, then we have nothing further to discuss.

You mean Sasuke+Itachi's power<=Itachi alone? :lol. Let's stop being daft. When you kids learn the difference between chakra amount, which was Itachi's issue, and chakra potency then we can continue arguing. His illness means just about shit when his illness affects his reserves, not the power of his chakra.

In fact Sasuke went nearly blind after fighting Danzo, while Itachi spent half his life using MS. Which further contradicts your notion of chakra potency.

:lol. Let's go over something real quick.

a·mount
əˈmount/Submit
noun
1.
a quantity of something, typically the total of a thing or things in number, size, value, or extent.

po·ten·cy
ˈpōtnsē/Submit
noun
1.
the power of something to affect the mind or body.

Amount=/=Potency. You seem to have the tendency of using examples that could or do relate to CHAKRA AMOUNT to prove that Sasuke's chakra isn't as potent as Itachi's or whatever the hell you want to prove. But it does not work that way.

Sasuke going blind has nothing to do with chakra strength or chakra amount. MS blindness has jack shit to do with your chakra's strength or amount. Nice try though.

And lastly if you did not realize that we are talking about the games PS, hence using the games PS scales and values, then like I said we have nothing further to discuss

Except the game never puts Itachi's Susanoo on the same level as Madara's. Only the same size. And size is not level contradictory to your ridiculous beliefs. :lol Itachi fans need to stop. It seems you guys think you can bring the wank back since your fav has gotten a new ability.

Yata has a 100% success rate and also DB support, you can desperatley ignore that but then you might as well just stop arguing.

You're the one that has to prove it can't....

:lol Yes. 100% success rate against paper bombs and Sasuke's sword. When you have proof that isn't DB hyperbole then we can talk. Cause I'm not going to entertain this Yata bullshit argument again.

 

[Zealous Sparks]

And I don't care what EMS grants a user because this argument is about what the following scan means.

You must be registered for see images

And that's his CHAKRA. HIS POWER. Period. Has nothing to do with anything you listed.

No.. If it was chakra kishi would say chakra ..... Power is a vague term. Your opinion is just a theory. Similar to how he refers yata and totsuka as ethereal / spiritual rather than chakra weapons

I never said that Sasuke obtained Itachi's full chakra power. Probably did though considering Sasuke went from using a tiny V4 Susanoo to using Kurama Avatar sized PS.

You did say that. That isnt proof enough to assume something like this.

No it's not.


-Sasuke gets Itachi's eyes.
-Sasuke gets Itachi's chakra power in addition to his own.
-Thus EMS Sasuke>>MS Sasuke in every single way.


-Obito gets Madara's Rinnegan.
-Rinnegan grants extremely powerful chakra.
-Thus Rinnegan Obito>>MS Obito in every single way.

yes it is m8 lmaoo
So its chakra power now you have no way to prove this.


Rinnegan gives you path abilities therefore the chakra to use them.
Ems gives you what was stated in cannon ( no blindness and strain) and a better chance to unlock PS

I didn't know that getting Itachi's chakra=Getting Itachi's jutsu. Ah! Oh wait!


You pulled that out of your ass. At this point you should probably either start replying with stuff that makes sense, or stop replying altogether. :lol. You completely derailed this argument into something else since you couldn't prove your main points that:


-Itachi wins.
-Itachi's PS=Madara's PS.

Getting madras chakra ( rinnegan ) = Using path jutsu. see why both processes are different now.


OT: Itachi wins this battle without PS

 

[KidGamer65]

No.. If it was chakra kishi would say chakra ..... Power is a vague term. Your opinion is just a theory. Similar to how he refers yata and totsuka as ethereal / spiritual rather than chakra weapons

I've already provided the facts.

-Dojutsu grants the user's chakra. FACT.
-Power and chakra have been used interchangeably in this Manga. FACT.
-Chakra is a type of POWER.

In FACT. The only one who's baseless opinion is being presented here is yours. Yata and Totsuka re called ethereal/spiritual weapons because that is what they are and they cannot be called chakra weapons as they are not chakra weapons.

You did say that. That isnt proof enough to assume something like this.

Except it is. Sasuke's Susanoo growing dramatically in size and power is because his chakra grew dramatically in size and power, and the only thing he got was EMS. Use. Your. Brain.

yes it is m8 lmaoo
So its chakra power now you have no way to prove this.

Obito's whole statement literally confirms that Dojutsu grants the user chakra. So you can stop arguing now.

Rinnegan gives you path abilities therefore the chakra to use them.

Stop being an idiot and start reading the Manga. Obito said that the Rinnegan grants a strong chakra. Nothing more, nothing less. I could literally give a shit about your opinion on this matter when Obito has laid the facts out for anyone who isn't a biased little fanboy to see clearly.

Ems gives you what was stated in cannon ( no blindness and strain) and a better chance to unlock PS

EMS gives you:

-The other person's chakra.
-No strain.
-No blindness.

Getting madras chakra ( rinnegan ) = Using path jutsu. see why both processes are different now.

:lol stop being an idiot. I don't care what the chakra lets him do. (since he couldn't even use those abilities with one eye anyway) The point is, HE. GETS. THE CHAKRA. If the next reply is something reminiscent of what I flush down my toilet, don't expect another counter.

 

[Zealous Sparks]

I've already provided the facts.

-Dojutsu grants the user's chakra. FACT.
-Power and chakra have been used interchangeably in this Manga. FACT.
-Chakra is a type of POWER.

In FACT. The only one who's baseless opinion is being presented here is yours. Yata and Totsuka re called ethereal/spiritual weapons because that is what they are and they cannot be called chakra weapons as they are not chakra weapons.




Except it is. Sasuke's Susanoo growing dramatically in size and power is because his chakra grew dramatically in size and power, and the only thing he got was EMS. Use. Your. Brain.









Obito's whole statement literally confirms that Dojutsu grants the user chakra. So you can stop arguing now.



Stop being an idiot and start reading the Manga. Obito said that the Rinnegan grants a strong chakra. Nothing more, nothing less. I could literally give a shit about your opinion on this matter when Obito has laid the facts out for anyone who isn't a biased little fanboy to see clearly.



EMS gives you:

-The other person's chakra.
-No strain.
-No blindness.










:lol stop being an idiot. I don't care what the chakra lets him do. (since he couldn't even use those abilities with one eye anyway) The point is, HE. GETS. THE CHAKRA. If the next reply is something reminiscent of what I flush down my toilet, don't expect another counter.

No dude, where in the manga and datebook does it state ems sasuke has the equivalent of all of itachi chakra. Are you trying to say eyeless itachi has no chakra? Or that ems even grants chakra for that matter. Your claim that all of itachi's chakra is in his eyes make no sense at all.

Nowhere does it say u gain the chakra and the one instance your using he's not even using the word chakra. Power is so vague.

The process of gaining the rinnegan and getting ems and the results are entirely different and if you can't see that idk what to tell you dude

 

[KidGamer65]

No dude, where in the manga and datebook does it state ems sasuke has the equivalent of all of itachi chakra. Are you trying to say eyeless itachi has no chakra?

I said that he gains Itachi's chakra and power. Never said he gains all of Itachi's chakra amount, and the rest has been countered as it's just a repeat of your idiotic denial of Manga Fact. This debate is finished unless you bring some groundbreaking point or a new point that I haven't already addressed. :lol Fanboys. They kill me.

 

[Zealous Sparks]

I said that he gains Itachi's chakra and power. Never said he gains all of Itachi's chakra amount, and the rest has been countered as it's just a repeat of your idiotic denial of Manga Fact. This debate is finished unless you bring some groundbreaking point or a new point that I haven't already addressed. :lol Fanboys. They kill me.

dude you said ems sasuke = itachi + sasuke
Your chakra =/= power is just a vague stretch that you used to fuel your argument
U_U

 

[KidGamer65]

dude you said ems sasuke = itachi + sasuke
Your chakra =/= power is just a vague stretch that you used to fuel your argument
U_U

In terms of chakra power, not amount. The rest has been countered. Argument over.

 

[Zealous Sparks]

In terms of chakra power, not amount. The rest has been countered. Argument over.

Rinnegan : Your argument is eyes give chakra power. Senju Enhanced Obito had 1 eye and the power of madara chakra's and barely couldn't handle it in one eye. Nagato had both eyes and could handle it just fine.

This is why your idea of chakra power transference makes no sense.

 

[KidGamer65]

You must be registered for see images

It's not a theory. It's an established Manga fact. Obito being unable to handle while Nagato can simply means that Nagato can handle both and Obito can't.

 

[Lord Tywin]

If your chakra isn't strong enough, your PS won't be strong. Let's imagine a EMS Madara and Rinnegan Sasuke. Sasuke's ps would absolutely shitstomp Madara's due the chakra potency. Size means shit when you're not strong enough. Itachi's ps can be as big as Madara's, but his chakra level and potency doesn't even come close.

 

[Zealous Sparks]

You must be registered for see images

It's not a theory. It's an established Manga fact. Obito being unable to handle while Nagato can simply means that Nagato can handle both and Obito can't.

Two eyes together gives you more power, sure. But that doesn't mean you get a chakra upgrade
If Obito is gaining chakra power( which is adding to your own chakra power ) from putting madaras eyes in it shouldn't be hurting him. If you see what I mean.