Don't be foolish. Domu cannot be broken, unless manga facts are presented clearly stating otherwise. Domu has both Manga & Databook references in regards to its immortality. The only techniques that can break the technique are Lightning, Gentle Fist, Preta Path, and techniques of similar origins.
I know most of you despise Doton: Domu because it is the greatest defense, but you don't hate the technique, hate the creator. Domu will f*ck up your lives.
Then learn the difference between catching someone off guard and outspeeding them. If you catch them off guard then how in the world would that make you faster than them? :lol. The point of catching someone off guard is to get them before they can react as fast as they usually do.
Kakashi used Suiton, and got blinded by the smoke, allowing Kakuzu to rush him with hidden. Then there's the fact that Kakashi was in mid air thus completely unable to do anything regardless of his speed.
Once again. Kakuzu did not outspeed Kakashi. Not once. Like I told Zex, learn the difference between catching someone offguard and actually outspeeding someone. You say "traveling speed isn't the only speed that matters", yet there is no other area of speed where Kakuzu outsped Kakashi in.
Then learn the difference between catching someone off guard and outspeeding them. If you catch them off guard then how in the world would that make you faster than them? :lol. The point of catching someone off guard is to get them before they can react as fast as they usually do.
Yet Kakashi never was able to simply outspeed Kakuzu, despite being in close proximity to him for a decent amount of time (X) meanwhile Kakuzu was able to catch Kakashi twice, attribute it to whatever you want but that at least puts the speed on equal terms.
-Kakashi and Kakuzu did nothing but have a stand off there. Nothing occurred that'd allow you to say that Kakashi failed to outspeed him.
-He only caught Kakashi twice because Kakashi was caught off guard, twice. Has literally nothing to do with speed and everything to do with surprise. Which is the only reason Kakashi got touched by Kakuzu both times. Once when he thought Kakuzu was dead and turned his back, and the other when he was in mid air and Kakuzu rushed from the cover of the steam created by the clash of their jutsu.
-Kakashi and Kakuzu did nothing but have a stand off there. Nothing occurred that'd allow you to say that Kakashi failed to outspeed him.
-He only caught Kakashi twice because Kakashi was caught off guard, twice. Has literally nothing to do with speed and everything to do with surprise. Which is the only reason Kakashi got touched by Kakuzu both times. Once when he thought Kakuzu was dead and turned his back, and the other when he was in mid air and Kakuzu rushed from the cover of the steam created by the clash of their jutsu.
Why wouldn't he attack him if the blitz was viable :lol ? You're saying Kakashi just decided to stare at Kakuzu for an interval of time that began a good deal of pages before
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It may not have been his fastest speed, but when using Raikiri he's still quite fast, and Kakashi with the sharingan couldn't percieve Kakuzu's movements which intevened, its still a feat a decent one as Kakashi was reather close to Hidan.
Then we have when Kakuzu's threads clearly blitzed him pretty straight forwardly
Why wouldn't he attack him if the blitz was viable :lol ? You're saying Kakashi just decided to stare at Kakuzu for an interval of time that began a good deal of pages before
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It may not have been his fastest speed, but when using Raikiri he's still quite fast, and Kakashi with the sharingan couldn't percieve Kakuzu's movements which intevened, its still a feat a decent one as Kakashi was reather close to Hidan.
Then we have when Kakuzu's threads clearly blitzed him pretty straight forwardly
There is a very clear difference between a blitz and outspeeding someone. Kakashi being unable to blitz doesn't change the fact that he's faster, it means that Kakuzu is simply fast enough to react.
Uh, no.
-Thought he was dead.
-Simply rushed at him ending any and all notion of this being any kind of notable feat.
-He was literally right under Kakashi.
Kakuzu being able to intercept someone who doesn't even know he's alive from less than a meter away isn't a speed feat.
Yes. When Kakuzu's threads blitzed a battle worn Kakashi from a meter away. :lol. Not only does this say nothing about his speed, again, he was a meter away. Not a feat. These arguments are literally the same things you always say. The same things that are always countered with the exact same material.
Kakashi used Suiton, and got blinded by the smoke, allowing Kakuzu to rush him with hidden. Then there's the fact that Kakashi was in mid air thus completely unable to do anything regardless of his speed.
Once again. Kakuzu did not outspeed Kakashi. Not once. Like I told Zex, learn the difference between catching someone offguard and actually outspeeding someone. You say "traveling speed isn't the only speed that matters", yet there is no other area of speed where Kakuzu outsped Kakashi in.
Has Kakashi dodged on mid air? Yes, and against Kakuzu himself
Has Kakashi reacted to point blank attacks before? Yes
Kakuzu accomplished his goal faster than Kakashi. He used his brain faster than Kakashi, who had already outspeeded Kakuzu while mid-air and caught out of guard
I agree with Zexion on Kakuzu being faster than Kakashi on those ocations, since movement speed is not the only involved, he just performed faster.
There is a very clear difference between a blitz and outspeeding someone. Kakashi being unable to blitz doesn't change the fact that he's faster, it means that Kakuzu is simply fast enough to react.
Same thing Asura path was able to do? It still occured faster than Kakashi could react, or even move past Kakuzu's body.
Yes. When Kakuzu's threads blitzed a battle worn Kakashi from a meter away. :lol. Not only does this say nothing about his speed, again, he was a meter away. Not a feat. These arguments are literally the same things you always say. The same things that are always countered with the exact same material.
:lol "battleworn" Kakashi despite him showing no signs of decline when he used Raikiri to save Naruto, and the fact that he stated he still had enough stamina to use Kamui normally.
Which is 10000% irrelevant to anything I stated. Which is also a terrible counter to what Beans stated since Jiraiya doesn't need to be able to blitz Kakuzu to close the distance between them, which is how he's going to get a Chou Oodama Rasengan in his face. All Kakuzu showed is that he's fast enough to react to Kakashi's speed.
Same thing Asura path was able to do? It still occured faster than Kakashi could react, or even move past Kakuzu's body.
1. Asura Path came from nowhere. Kakuzu was right under Kakashi's body. :lol It's amusing that you are attempting to compare their speed tho.
2. Kakashi didn't know that Kakuzu was alive yet you keep on repeating the same nonsense "he couldn't react" :lol. Call me when you can react to the attack of a guy you thought you killed a second ago. An attack you wouldn't be expecting, especially from less than a meter away.
There is no feat here. Stop trying to make it seem like there is one.
:lol "battleworn" Kakashi despite him showing no signs of decline when he used Raikiri to save Naruto, and the fact that he stated he still had enough stamina to use Kamui normally.
You mean when he jumped and swung his hand downwards. Yeah. Peak Kakashi right there. :lol.
The fact that this was from a meter away ends your point anyway so there is no use trying to drag it on. And where did he state the second bolded text?
I don't think he was ever shown to have Kata, or his punches would not have been able to be blocked via human path.
-Animal path was already too far for Jiraiya's katon to be lethal even if it did hit.
-Ma and Pa were busy casting the sound genjutsu, which is already what was confusing the paths I believe mind you.
-He still needed to retreat to a narrow corridor which is not a very common battle ground.
Before he retreated into the pipes he was pretty helpless.
Summons would have been useles due to human paths ability imo, although I feel like Kishi didn't fully know what it was then :lol
He has frog kata. He kicked away a Rinnegan summon with just his physical strength [
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]. Human Path blocking a punch doesn't mean it was Jiraiya's fastest or strongest punch. Jiraiya thought he had him blindsided and wasn't expecting the path to counter.
-Um no,
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distance isn't even very long. Katon would surely kill it from that range.
-No proof that Frog Song affects the target before the genjutsu kicks in.
-The narrow corridor prevented him from summoning boss toads so really it didn't work in his favor.
It cleared Kakuzu's battlefield as well as create a crater?
Anyways didn't realize that he used a different technique the second time, but even still what would that do? It wouldn't really make it any hotter/stronger as the oil and fire are being combined regardless its just happening in one mouth now, adding more flames would either:
A- Be ineffective due to the Dai Endan overpowering the normal katon anyways
or
B- Merely give it a bit more range, I don't see why you would think it makes it more powerful.
If oil is being added from one of the sages instead of katon, it would merely increase its size which in the end is futile due to the plain fact that this is a out door battlefield with tree's. This isn't a room where the Goamon can accumulate and turn into waves, it would disperse until its volume is miniscule, while Kakuzu can safely ride it out from above.
You plan on having Jiraiya hold this jutsu despite Kakuzu's hearts having feats of sustaining high elevation for a decent amount of time? He'd be blasted .-. Also your durability stat is off as Jiraiya launched another Dai Endan (which human and animal gracefully avoided) as to block preta's sight even after he finished absorbing the first one and turned around.
Dai Endan is a way stronger katon than Ma's katon. It's really that simple. Jiraiya substitutes Ma's weaker Katon with Dai Endan and Ma uses oil instead. Therefore it's stronger than the original Goemon shown in the manga, though even regular Goemon is enough to roast Kakuzu by feats.
An outdoor location doesn't make Goemon useless. In fact the fact that the burning oil would spread out over an area just increases the AOE of the jutsu and means Kakuzu will surely get caught like
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, and the amount of oil they produce is so much that it builds up to make waves faster than it can disperse over an area (like thick syrup being poured.) Kakuzu's hearts are not a threat because Jiraiya can just cancel the jutsu and form a COR and hold it in front of him to block their attacks.
I don't know how dodging Dai Endan would make my durability stat wrong.
Why would it smash anyone to smitherenes :lol, we've all seen what Rasengan does a larger one just does much more damage but it doesn't smash anything really. Questionable if Domu could tank it in the first place, but you're overrating Jiraiya's speed here as the weaker paths were dealing with him.
Domu obviously doesn't stand a chance in hell at tanking Chou Oodama Rasengan. Base Naruto's COR was eating through Madara's Susanoo prior to even exploding. Sage Mode Jiraiya's COR explosion would obliterate Kakuzu. I'm not overrating Jiraiya's speed. He's just a lot faster than Kakuzu, so Kakuzu can't run away fast enough nor can he really hold Jiraiya at bay with element attacks since Jiraiya would just plow right through them.
While Kakuzu who has shown speed above that certain Kakashi who was dealing with the two fastest paths (Deva and Asura) Kakashi's speed couldn't have increased that greatly inbetween the arcs, as he was out searching for Itachi the entire time in between.
-It takes loads of prep, someone like Kakuzu who has 4 massive ways to keep you from preparing said prep, is not a good opponent to go against with this.
-No pipes to travel through means not a very large range to begin with.
-Kakuzu's fuuton simply is louder with the pressure it creates.
-Shima can summon the toad army which fends off Kakuzu while Ma and Pa prep the genjutsu.
-Baseless assumption.
-Kakuzu's fuuton will wear off, but Ma and Pa will continue croaking so Kakuzu still gets caught.
@KG Getting up from being sprawled out on the ground is not a very fast process, the fact that he could do so before Kakashi was even able to move past his legs (or the fact that he was able to move in front of him, which is even greater a feat) is impressive :lol maybe not a foot speed feat but its impressive anyawys.
Also I dont care what Kakashi did action wise, he used Raikiri so he wasn't fully exhausted and should have been able to move. Oh and also
He has frog kata. He kicked away a Rinnegan summon with just his physical strength [
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]. Human Path blocking a punch doesn't mean it was Jiraiya's fastest or strongest punch. Jiraiya thought he had him blindsided and wasn't expecting the path to counter.
Is FK something that has to be activated? Isn't it the extension of force from a punch as to increase its range? Everything else can just be attributed to the strength SM gives you can it not? I also don't see why Jiraiya would take it easy or not have it his strongest punch when he was hyping the rinnegan and his opponent the entire fight.
-Um no,
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distance isn't even very long. Katon would surely kill it from that range.
-No proof that Frog Song affects the target before the genjutsu kicks in.
-The narrow corridor prevented him from summoning boss toads so really it didn't work in his favor.
Yes it did :lol as that means he could distract each one singularly, and easier to cut one off from the other, he didnt summon boss toads in the open area either. Im saying that animal path would have had enough time to summon something to stop his fall, or to block the katon or even just avoid it, not to mention he was flying towards preta path.
Genjutsu, Senjutsu, No rank, Offensive, Supplementary, All ranges
Users: Shima, Fukasaku
When it reaches your ears, you're the prisoner of the demonic illusion
A one-hear certain kill vocal duet!!
[picture of Fukasaku and Shima singing together, while sitting on Jiraiya's shoulder]
↑On both shoulders of "Sage Mode" Jiraiya are the "genjutsu" singing married toad couple...!! After several centuries of married life, the exquisite harmony of the Two Great Sage Toads distorts even the airspace!!
The person who hears it is lured into a "genjutsu world that binds the mind"
When two or more toads come together and sing the secret musical scale passed down on Mt. Myouboku, the person who hears the harmony is lured into a "genjutsu world that binds the mind". Because learning it requires many long years of training, the husband and wife Great Toad Sage are the only one's with the skills to perform it.
[picture of the sound reaching Animal Realm's ears and him feeling the effects of the genjutsu]
↑The "Toad Confrontation Chant" only has to reach the target's sense of hearing to be a success. On the other hand, because it uses sound, it also has a weakness in that it gives away the users' whereabouts
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[picture of Human Realm, Preta Realm, and Animal Realm caught in the barrier]
←↓Even if there are several hundred targets, they are completely disconnected from each other!!
The person whose ears the "Toad Confrontation Chant" reaches has both mind and body completely sealed between the hands of giant unmoving toads!!
[picture of the four giant toads holding the barrier between their hands]
With four toads standing motionless on all sides, both dream and reality become bound by hand and foot!!
Inside the genjutsu world, the target is surrounded North, East, South, and West, by giant toads, imprisoning them in a barrier. The four unmoving toads won't lift the complete binding until the user gives the order. All that is left to do is to strike the finishing blow in the real world.
[picture of Jiraiya stabbing the immobile bodies of Pain]
→Mt. Myouboku's secret stone swords³ are driven into the targets' hearts like a wedge. The targets are finally released into the realm of the dead.
¹ When written as 輪唱, "rinshou" means "to sing in canon".
² Sage Mode (仙人モード, Sennin Mōdo)
³ Stone Sword (石剣, Ishiken)
It has some implications that it merely needs to reach the ears to begin having effects. You can see their eyes going crazy in the manga I believe a few times as well.
Also Animal path showed signs of being physically affected by it
Proof of this? It removes souls, pretty sure Kabuto was going to use it to remove the nine tails or something.
Dai Endan is a way stronger katon than Ma's katon. It's really that simple. Jiraiya substitutes Ma's weaker Katon with Dai Endan and Ma uses oil instead. Therefore it's stronger than the original Goemon shown in the manga, though even regular Goemon is enough to roast Kakuzu by feats.
Dai Endan = Fire and Oil correct? Of course its going to be stronger than Ma's katon but Ma's katon itself is also being combined with Oil basically meaning its the same exact strength with maybe a little added range.
An outdoor location doesn't make Goemon useless. In fact the fact that the burning oil would spread out over an area just increases the AOE of the jutsu and means Kakuzu will surely get caught like
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, and the amount of oil they produce is so much that it builds up to make waves faster than it can disperse over an area (like thick syrup being poured.) Kakuzu's hearts are not a threat because Jiraiya can just cancel the jutsu and form a COR and hold it in front of him to block their attacks.
Yes that is what happens, giving Kakuzu the ability to merely harden his feet with Domu and come out unscathed, without walls to bottle it up the amount on the ground would get increasingly thin, and since Kakuzu's fuuton impacts the ground severely, he can easily clear it no matter of the element advantage it may once have had I think we both can agree an inch of goamon on the ground isn't somehow withstanding a natural disaster like fuuton.
In the end it does next to nothing, and okay Beans if he cancels the jutsu the purpose has been achieved, although I don't see how a COR is blocking his fuuton (raiton might rip through it honestly, could raikiri pierce that large rasengan?) or the fuuton that travels under, not to mention the combination. Jiraiya has much better defenses then that (summoning toad mouth,even his hair may protect him from base Katon) its a question of if he can do this in time.
I don't know how dodging Dai Endan would make my durability stat wrong.
What? I said the fact that he used it twice is why Preta path was so caught up, not because that clone was continuously using it.
Domu obviously doesn't stand a chance in hell at tanking Chou Oodama Rasengan. Base Naruto's COR was eating through Madara's Susanoo prior to even exploding. Sage Mode Jiraiya's COR explosion would obliterate Kakuzu. I'm not overrating Jiraiya's speed. He's just a lot faster than Kakuzu, so Kakuzu can't run away fast enough nor can he really hold Jiraiya at bay with element attacks since Jiraiya would just plow right through them.
I don't see how Jiraiya who wasn't granted the durability SM Naruto had would "plow through" any of the attacks without any defenses.
When does Rasengan explode?
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ribcage Susano'o tanked it, and Domu is around an average rib cage if not V1 Susano'o level by portrayl,maybe not Madara's.
That still doesn't explain how exactly that COR is going to damage Kakuzu's hearts? It can throw him around all it likes but if its not physically damaging the heart then I don't see what its going to do. Are you arguing its going to actually "Obliterate" Kakuzu into nothing? Pretty sure he survived a RS which has a pretty large explosion in itself and something that actually slices the body due to his threads durability.
Then theres the fact that Jiraiya ISN'T that much faster than him, and if hes charging head first at him he can be caught by threads or hit by jutsu that he will certainly not be "plowing" through.
KG explained why this is wrong, and it still wouldn't matter because Jiraiya is faster than Kakashi.
Not really by feats again....Jiraiya was having trouble with the slower paths. Also Kakuzu was able to deal with Kakashi's speed whether they're on equal footing or not.
-Shima can summon the toad army which fends off Kakuzu while Ma and Pa prep the genjutsu.
The same toad army that was effortlesly avoided by a levitating Deva path? Kakuzu's hearts are quicker in the air and harder to damage with threaded bodies. They could dodge and weave enough to get them in range.
This is true but I was assuming they would be within range, so they'd have to move back and then be put on the defensive for more attacks until they'd need to stop croaking to survive.
