Sasuke's Senjutsu Susanoo

[KidGamer65]

I've already mentioned the reason why it would change it that same post. Chakra potency isn't the only factor determining Susanoo's power level.

Level of the Susanoo is what you are basing your points off of, but there is no level of Susanoo above PS.

What do you mean by "based on nothing"? It is derived from manga facts.

9 bijuus chakra combined = Juubi's chakra (Common sense)
Juubi's chakra = Six Paths Senjutsu chakra (Madara and Obito as Juubi Jins)
Six Paths Senjutsu chakra = Six Paths Yang chakra w/Senjutsu (Madara about Naruto)
Six Paths Yang chakra w/Senjutsu = Six Paths Yin chakra (Naruto and Sasuke clashes and fight with opponents)

Therefore, 9 bijuus chakra combined = Six Paths Yin chakra

It being the same type of chakra (Rikudo's chakra)=/=It being the same amount and strength. So once again, your point is literally based off of nothing.

That is evolution. But the previous forms can also be used later as dialed back forms from the same chakra and same dojutsu.

Which says nothing about PS because PS to Bijuu PS isn't an evolution in the Susanoo's level. It's extra chakra powering up the same level of Susanoo.

Ultimate Susanoo is.

"Ultimate Susanoo" is a name made up by fans. The Susanoo Sasuke used against Naruto is PS powered by Bijuu chakra. There is no level above PS. Changing the shape of PS=/=Changing the level of the Susanoo.

I know that. When did I say it did?

-You say you aren't saying that.
-Yet you say Bijuu PS is an evolution of Susanoo.
-Yet you ignore the fact that Bijuu PS is nothing but PS being powered by Bijuu Chakra. Thus it's shape changes.

They can. Because Sasuke was using MS in Gaiden for PS.

1. Irrelevant because we are discussing a Sasuke who would be using EMS and Rinnegan.
2. Obvious drawing error that has been done before. Sasuke has EMS. There is no using MS after you obtain EMS. EMS is the persons new MS.

But regardless of that, EMS is a higher form of MS, so it contains original MS powers as well. So even if his eyes don't change, he can create ribcage Susanoo all the way up to Perfect Susanoo depending upon power output. With the same chakra.

Which is something we all knew already. Something that doesn't help your point since you've yet to show why you think Bijuu PS is another level of Susanoo.

@bold If that's the case, then all of Sasuke's jutsus should be powered up, which they weren't.

Doesn't matter if you think they were powered up or not.

-Sasuke stated that he was granted Itachi's power. Itachi's power+Sasuke's power>Sasuke's power alone.
-Obito said that Rinnegan had a powerful chakra locked inside of it.

Not to mention EMS Sasuke's Shunshin feats surpass his previous forms, and that's because of stronger chakra.

(I was only listing the factors of impact that made Susanoo reach this level as a whole)

Ok.

True, but Sasuke's chakra potency has already changed after Rikodou power-up. So it already allows "Susanoo greater than PS" at max with full EMS power access. And naturally, it also allows everything below it depending upon power output. So if it already allows "Susanoo greater than PS" at max, who cares if his chakra potency does not change NOW?

EMS Sasuke is completely irrelevant to this discussion, so drawing a comparison between his power and RG Sasuke's power doesn't even begin to prove your point.

If we're comparing Pre-Rikodou power level to post-Rikodou power level, then chakra potency HAS CHANGED between that time.

Except we obviously aren't.

Pre-Rikodou max power level: PS
Post-Rikodou max power level: Utimate Susanoo (chakra potency has changed after Rikodou power-up)

Quit with this Ultimate Susanoo stuff. There is no ultimate Susanoo. Sasuke's Susanoo post Rikudo and pre Rikudo are the same level. The only difference is that it's larger and stronger due to Sasuke's boost in power.

It changes (shown in Gaiden). And so what if it doesn't? EMS already allows Ultimate Susanoo at max with Six Paths chakra. And naturally, it allows everything below it depending upon power output. If MS with Six Paths chakra allows PS at max, then EMS with Six Paths chakra will obviously be greater at max i.e. Ultimate Susanoo.

Gaiden has been addressed, the rest is irrelevant because we are comparing Rinnegan Sasuke using PS, to Rinnegan Sasuke using Bijuu PS.

And for side explanation, his EMS still allows all lower forms i.e. his original MS powers in addition to EMS enhancements. So it accesses corresponding power depending upon Sasuke's needs. Consider this just like gears and his dojutsu like a gearbox. Gears change with respect to speed requirements, but the gearbox remains same. (Oppositely) So even if the gearbox remains same, gears still change correspondingly.

Stop mentioning EMS. It's irrelevant.

If he's using his highest level of Susanoo, then power output is irrelevant. And his highest level of Susanoo with Six Paths chakra and EMS is Ultimate Susanoo.

*Perfect Susanoo. Not ultimate Susanoo.

Unless you're saying Six Paths chakra has no power increment effect on Susanoo's power. Which is lame.

:lol Clearly it does, however.....you just derailed this entire discussion.

1. EMS Sasuke has nothing to do with this.
2. Dojutsu increasing=Susanoo increasing in power has nothing to do with this.

The comparison is "Will Rikudo Sasuke's Susanoo get stronger (not including Indra's Arrow and Senbon) if he forms it to look like Bijuu PS, but with his chakra instead of the Bijuu chakra" Why are you mentioning EMS Sasuke when he has nothing to do with anything?

 

[The Demon Hawk]

You want to discuss the same thing with me? I think I'll leave it to you guys... it seems kind of pointless right? lol

Not for discussion. Just for understanding...

He always forms PS with his Six Paths Chakra. Unless he magically turns off his Rinnegan and can create a version with EMS :lol

Technically, Susanoo has nothing to do with Rinnegan itself. It is always created using MS/EMS. The only reason it is formed with Rinnegan is because Rinnegan contains MS/EMS powers i.e. by accessing MS/EMS powers from Rinnegan.

Yes, he forms PS with Six Paths chakra. But not because of having the Rinnegan. But because he chooses to, and probably only has that.

I'll look at it later for real this time. Just paragraph for me if you can.

I assume you've probably read it by now, so I won't bother.

That is sort of flawed when you think of the principles of how Asura Avatar works. Naruto fuses two of his avatar together to improve his Kyuubi Avatar, and produce attacks on a stronger/larger scale. That's exactly the essence of shadow clones I was referring to.

His Kyuubi Avatar doesn't improve because of fusion. It's because of the incredible influx of nature energy that executes this upgrade. Fusing is a part of the process, maybe to manage that energy or combine it. Without all the nature energy gathered, fusing the avatars won't do anything. They won't even fuse probably.

So this concept is flawed, and also irrelevant when talking about shadow clones. Because Naruto's power remains same when he distributes his chakra using shadow clones. Just the chakra quantity reduces. That is the true essence of shadow clones.

I'll discuss this below.

Okay.

I'll go by your definition before continuing the discussion on why I believe that is wrong. We are under the assumption that current Naruto who uses Full Kurama /w Rikudou power is inferior to the Naruto who used Half Kurama and small amounts of other Tailed Beasts, but that in itself is a flawed assumption.

Where did you get that? No, we're not under the assumption that Naruto with full Kurama & Rikodou power is inferior to VOTE 2 Naruto. And yes, that assumption is flawed, obviously.

Sasuke and Naruto have proved that years after being Rikudou enhanced, their powers and mobility have increased beyond VoTe2.

Yes, evidently. Sasuke's physical strength and mobility has increased proportionally more than Naruto and matches Naruto's in RSM, whose physical attributes in itself have increased.

Clearly, they aren't the same level they were as teenagers. So how exactly do we compare the power output and input that Naruto/Kurama can distribute compared to a RSM with tidbits of Bijuu chakra applied? Clearly Naruto has grown stronger himself, and his Rikudou chakra itself has grown powerful, if we go by the assumption that Adult Sasukes CT > Revolution Arc Sasuke's CT. Though that answer should be obvious..

Yes, it's obvious, and I agree. Though I'm confused why you're bringing all this up. Which instance in my argument did you get the idea that Naruto or Sasuke are currently "weaker" than their VOTE 2 versions?

Back to my understanding, Half of Kurama was already matching a few of the Tailed Beasts by itself. Now I haven't seen enough evidence to prove that a Full Kurama would not surpass the amount of chakra the other Tailed Beasts provided.

Regardless of whether it would surpass other tailed beasts or not, it would still be 2x in quantity. And increase in chakra quantity isn't going to increase the power of Kurama. That shall remain same.

I doubt this considering their Adult Version spank them terribly. All attributes increased.

Yes, probably. Though what I mentioned were the most notable ones.

The problem here is that Adult Sasuke is stronger than VOTE 2 Sasuke.

Right.

If Sasuke had access to the same amount of Bijuu chakra 'That' Sasuke had, the Indra Arrow would be on a totally different scale than before.

I suppose so. But my argument is that Sasuke doesn't need the bijuus chakra to produce Ultimate Susanoo or Indra's Arrow. His Six Paths chakra is enough for that.

Then there should be no reason for this argument, right?

There should be. Just them being weaker doesn't fuel the argument.

Well your misunderstanding how Naruto and Sasuke are equal, they are the only two who can stand up to each other at full power, but that doesn't mean they are the one's who force that power on themselves.

"His (Sasuke's) true abilities are on par with Naruto" - Kishi

So that implies that power-wise, Sasuke is equal to Naruto.

It's the same situation with Madara being capable of standing against Hashirama, even if he has to resort to using the Kyuubi.

Madara was capable of "standing up" against Hashirama. But Sasuke is "equal" to Naruto. There is a difference in the two.

Clearly Asura Avatar destroys Sasuke, but since Sasuke can create the Bijuu Susano'o he will always have a defense against it. He just needs the Bijuu chakra, otherwise Naruto would win.

@bold Wrong! Not always. According to you, he'll only be able to create BijuuPS when he has access to the bijuus chakra which he won't have in the future. And since he won't always have access to them, then this contradicts the "Naruto = Sasuke" factual equation.

Sasuke always has EMS activated though, or he should unless he uses the S/T technique.

Spoiler

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Depends.

His Dojutsu can't downgrade. It was an art mistake. After he uses the S/T once/twice, his Dojutsu reverts to Rinnega/3T.

An art mistake can't occur multiple times in the same chapter, and that also on such a close up view, and that also with Kishi's cemented mindset to draw EMS.

But regardless, EMS can also access the lower levels of Susanoo.

I'm talking about the physical appearances of them being similar. Clearly you can tell by comparing the Bijuu and the IKurama PS that they look similar.

Firstly, as you know, Iso Susanoo means Susanoo coating on top of Kurama. This implies that Kurama's chakra is not involved in its creation but it's just added on top of Kurama by the user. This means Sasuke created it himself. Which means Sasuke can create it without bijuus chakra.

And BTW, Madara also did the Iso Susanoo, and his Susanoo stayed the exact same as before which proves my point that Kurama does not add power or chakra to the Susanoo, and whatever the Susanoo is is created solely by the user without any external power up. Which again means that Sasuke created that Susanoo on his own, not with Kurama's help.

Plus, the argument that full Kurama's chakra = 9 bijuus combined chakra doesn't make sense anyway. The argument Six Paths chakra = bijuus combined chakra is far more logical and factually true.

The Bijuu PS and the regular PS are both distinct with each other, and the Gaiden made it clear to what his PS looked like currently.

It was around the same before, but okay.

PS/Kurama:

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Bijuu Susano'o:

Spoiler

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PS (Gaiden):

Spoiler

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Well, PS w/Kurama has some attributes of PS and some of BPS, so can't tell which one it is exactly.

1. I replied above.

Okay.

2. It was never all Sasuke's power that created the Bijuu Susano'o in the first place, he is the only one that can do it, and it is his power, but he needs to fuel it from somewhere else.

Sasuke not having a permanent access to the bijuus makes the bijuus chakra NOT his power. So that implies Naruto = Sasuke corresponds to PS = 3 faced Kurama Avatar (going by your logic).

The flawed thing here is that argumentation itself. That would mean Asura Avatar < Bijuu Susano'o.

Why should it mean that?

Well actually that would mean that Sasuke can activate or use Bijuu Susano'o at all. The actual fact that he still has the capabilities of making it when under the right circumstances, makes him Naruto's equal.

@bold That's the biggest problem. We cannot establish a factual equation like "Naruto = Sasuke" when special conditions are required for a certain power especially the one that decides their power level. Sasuke cannot have access to bijuus chakra now, so that is not his power.

Just answer one question. Why can't Sasuke create Ultimate Susanoo on his own when he has the same power chakra as the 9 bijuus' combined chakra? What is the problem in that?

Level of the Susanoo is what you are basing your points off of, but there is no level of Susanoo above PS.

And what proves that? Where is it that there is no level of Susanoo above PS? In your encyclopedia?

It being the same type of chakra (Rikudo's chakra)=/=It being the same amount and strength.

Same type of chakra = same strength of chakra. Pretty basic and imminent logic. Amount is can be different though and is irrelevant. And yes, Six Paths chakra = Juubi's chakra, power-wise. Six Paths chakra is the exact same thing as Juubi's chakra.

REASONS

1. Origin-wise, Six Paths chakra was purely inherited by Hagoromo from Kaguya (Juubi). That means the source of Six Paths chakra is the Juubi, so how the hell they are not the same thing?
2. Feat-wise, Kakashi had Juubi's chakra with which he created PS w/MS. And that was basically Six Paths chakra as stated elsewhere by Madara and Obito, and also because it creates Six Paths Senjutsu. And Indra had Six Paths chakra with which he created PS w/MS. This proves that they are equal in power.
3. Another feat-wise, Naruto uses Six Paths Senjutsu using Six Paths chakra, and Madara uses the same Six Paths Senjutsu using Juubi's chakra, proving they're even and the same thing.

So once again, your point is literally based off of nothing.

You're the one who is actually basing your argument off of nothing. Plus, there are massive flaws in your argument.
- says there is no level of Susanoo above PS out of nowhere.
- calls the exact same chakra different.

Which says nothing about PS because PS to Bijuu PS isn't an evolution in the Susanoo's level.

And who says that?

It's extra chakra powering up the same level of Susanoo.

LOL, WTF is this?
- says Susanoo is powered up
- says Susanoo is same level

A specific level of Susanoo when powered up = upgraded level of Susanoo. No rocket science here. And yes, the level of Susanoo changes (ups) when it is powered up. Denying this is the finest of ignorance.

"Ultimate Susanoo" is a name made up by fans.

Yeah, so? We're addressing THAT Susanoo by this name. Any objections?

The Susanoo Sasuke used against Naruto is PS powered by Bijuu chakra. There is no level above PS.

Yeah, keep saying that... Without any proof, this has no value in my eyes.

Changing the shape of PS=/=Changing the level of the Susanoo.

Yeah, that's obvious.

-You say you aren't saying that.

Yeah, I'm not. You're misunderstanding.

-Yet you say Bijuu PS is an evolution of Susanoo.

Yeah, and so it is.

-Yet you ignore the fact that Bijuu PS is nothing but PS being powered by Bijuu Chakra.

BijuuPS being nothing more than PS powered by bijuus' chakra is your opinion. And I'm not buying it.

Thus it's shape changes.

Shape isn't the only thing that changes. The power of BijuuPS is on a completely different scale than before. So the power level (Susanoo level) also changes. Which demolishes your point that their is no level above PS.

1. Irrelevant because we are discussing a Sasuke who would be using EMS and Rinnegan.

Rinnegan has no business with Susanoo. It only provides access to MS/EMS powers since they're fused together. Technically, MS/EMS is what creates the Susanoo. So it's not irrelevant.

2. Obvious drawing error that has been done before. Sasuke has EMS. There is no using MS after you obtain EMS. EMS is the persons new MS.

A drawing error does not occur twice in the same chapter, especially when one of them was a close up view, and most importantly with Kishi's cemented mindset to draw EMS. Previously, he has a mindset of drawing MS, so the excuse about drawing error was valid then, but not now.

Which is something we all knew already. Something that doesn't help your point since you've yet to show why you think Bijuu PS is another level of Susanoo.

I've already shown that. And with a way more logical argument than yours. Here's how:
1. 9 bijuus chakra combined = Juubi's chakra = Six Paths chakra (derived from Juubi). Therefore, if Juubi's chakra can do something, Six Paths chakra can also do it. Which means Sasuke can create "BijuuPS" and produce Indra's Arrow on his own since he has Juubi's chakra indirectly. [Manifest fact. But you don't want to accept this because it is fatal for your argument]
2. Having a boost in power of chakra with the same dojutsu ups the level of Susanoo, logically and as proven. So BijuuPS is another level of Susanoo since it utilizes a more powerful chakra with the same dojutsu. [You deny this without reason or evidence]
3. EMS + Sasuke's chakra = PS. Therefore, EMS + Six Paths chakra (Juubi's chakra) = Susanoo of greater level than PS = BijuuPS. [Factual derivation]

Now, let's recap your BS argument:
1. There is no level of Susanoo above PS regardless of the boost in the power of chakra and considering the fact that BijuuPS is on a completely different scale than PS. [No proof for this, mere assumption]
2. VOTE 2 Susanoo is nothing more than PS powered by Bijuus chakra. [No convincing evidence]
3. Rikodou chakra is so worthless, that is only moderately increases the strength of the Susanoo compared to Sasuke's chakra to a point not much greater than Madara's PS. [Bulls***]
4. Juubi's chakra =/= Six Paths chakra even though Six Paths chakra is derived from the exact same source as Juubi's chakra, and somehow Sasuke can't create "BijuuPS" on his own despite having Six Paths chakra. [Pure denial of facts]
5. EMS ups the level of Susanoo by gaining more powerful chakra, but somehow Rikodou chakra which is a more powerful chakra doesn't increase the level of Susanoo. [Illogical + wrong]

Doesn't matter if you think they were powered up or not.

It's not about what I think. No noticeable advancements have been shown in the power of jutsus before and after EMS. Which is why I'm saying they haven't.

-Sasuke stated that he was granted Itachi's power. Itachi's power+Sasuke's power>Sasuke's power alone.

Obviously. And that doesn't imply having a more powerful chakra. Only enhanced powers.

-Obito said that Rinnegan had a powerful chakra locked inside of it.

Yes, Rinnegan had a (more) powerful chakra locked inside of it. But Itachi's MS had the same powered chakra locked inside of it as Sasuke's own MS, so it only increased the chakra quantity, not chakra quality.

Not to mention EMS Sasuke's Shunshin feats surpass his previous forms, and that's because of stronger chakra.

Scans of those Shunshin feats? And proof that chakra power is the only thing that improves Shunshin?

If I recall, weren't you the one that said Adult Sasuke's speed >>>> RG Sasuke (quote below)? But apparently, both those versions of Sasuke had the same power of chakra. So why did Adult Sasuke received such a massive boost in speed compared to Rinnegan Sasuke while having the same chakra (if chakra power is the only thing that empowers Shunshin)? Any explanations?

Adult Naruto=Adult Sasuke>>Manga RSM Naruto>JJ Madara>RG Sasuke>>Pre Rikudo Naruto>RT Madara>>Living Madara>EMS Sasuke.

EMS Sasuke is completely irrelevant to this discussion, so drawing a comparison between his power and RG Sasuke's power doesn't even begin to prove your point.

Why? Just because you don't like the inclusion of EMS Sasuke in this argument? It forms a comparison between Sasuke prior to Rikodou power up and subsequent to Rikodou power up, so it IS relevant.

Quit with this Ultimate Susanoo stuff. There is no ultimate Susanoo.

Sorry! Can't do that. Ultimate Susanoo exists whether you like it or not. The only thing I can do for your sake is change the name of "Ultimate Susanoo" to "Almighty Susanoo" or "godly Susanoo" (if that helps reduce your irritation).

Sasuke's Susanoo post Rikudo and pre Rikudo are the same level. The only difference is that it's larger and stronger due to Sasuke's boost in power.

Come on, that's so f***ing lame...
- says EMS grants more powerful chakra which ups the level of Susanoo
- says Rikodou chakra (more powerful chakra) does not up the level of Susanoo

Do you know how ridiculous this sounds? Can you stay on one side instead of being a hypocrite like that? Or you're just too confused? (There are so many places you contradict yourself in this very post)

Gaiden has been addressed, the rest is irrelevant because we are comparing Rinnegan Sasuke using PS, to Rinnegan Sasuke using Bijuu PS.

It has been addressed and countered. So we're even there.

Stop mentioning EMS. It's irrelevant.

LOL, really?
- discusses EMS power i.e. Susanoo
- calls EMS irrelevant
You up on drugs or something?

*Perfect Susanoo. Not ultimate Susanoo.

It IS Ultimate Susanoo, dude!

:lol Clearly it does, however.....you just derailed this entire discussion.

How did I?

1. EMS Sasuke has nothing to do with this.
2. Dojutsu increasing=Susanoo increasing in power has nothing to do with this.

Yeah, they do. They show the level of progression of Susanoo until now and the factors behind it.

The comparison is "Will Rikudo Sasuke's Susanoo get stronger (not including Indra's Arrow and Senbon) if he forms it to look like Bijuu PS,

What do you mean "look like BijuuPS"? BijuuPS wasn't just an enhancement in aesthetics, dude. The power level of that thing was completely different. It shat on the Kurama clones big time. It was an upgraded Susanoo level.

but with his chakra instead of the Bijuu chakra"

They're the same thing, so obviously it will.

Why are you mentioning EMS Sasuke when he has nothing to do with anything?

How come it has nothing to do with anything?

 

[KidGamer65]

Why? Just because you don't like the inclusion of EMS Sasuke in this argument? It forms a comparison between Sasuke prior to Rikodou power up and subsequent to Rikodou power up, so it IS relevant.

No, because it literally has nothing to do with the argument. If you are going to jump into an argument between me and another member, read before you reply so you don't come in here looking like a fool. This argument talks about Rinnegan Sasuke's Susanoo, in comparison to a Susanoo he could hypothetically make. Please tell me how how the hell EMS Sasuke has anything to do with this. I'll wait for you to start making coherent arguments.

Sorry! Can't do that. Ultimate Susanoo exists whether you like it or not. The only thing I can do for your sake is change the name of "Ultimate Susanoo" to "Almighty Susanoo" or "godly Susanoo" (if that helps reduce your irritation).

Except there is no such thing. Can we please stop being an immature little child and start reading the Manga. I expected an intelligent discussion from you, but of course, I was wrong to expect such. Mainly because of your poor grasp of the English language. Ribcage, Skeletal, Complete, Armored, Complete Body-Susanoo. (Perfect Susanoo) Those are the levels of Susanoo. Anything and everything else is fanfiction. End. Of. Story. Your opinion isn't going to cut it, especially when you are using a name made up by fans.

Come on, that's so f***ing lame...
- says EMS grants more powerful chakra which ups the level of Susanoo
- says Rikodou chakra (more powerful chakra) does not up the level of Susanoo

The only one confused is you. So let me break this down into a format even a daft kid could understand.

1. EMS grants more powerful chakra which ups the STRENGTH of the Susanoo. Don't get it twisted. Then you won't sound like you can't read the English language.

2. Rikudo's power grants more powerful chakra, which ups the STRENGTH of the Susanoo.

Please tell me where I said that EMS and Rikudo Chakra boost the level of Susanoo when I've been saying this whole time that there is no level above Susanoo. Don't worry. I'll wait.

It has been addressed and countered. So we're even there.

LOL, really?
- discusses EMS power i.e. Susanoo
- calls EMS irrelevant
You up on drugs or something?

Been explained. Can we stop acting like an idiot? It's pretty annoying.

It IS Ultimate Susanoo, dude!

No such thing.

How did I?

Explained above. Though I expect another dumb reply.

Yeah, they do. They show the level of progression of Susanoo until now and the factors behind it.

Which is irrelevant because PS to Bijuu PS is not a progression of level.

What do you mean "look like BijuuPS"? BijuuPS wasn't just an enhancement in aesthetics, dude. The power level of that thing was completely different. It shat on the Kurama clones big time. It was an upgraded Susanoo level.

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Before you reply to me, separate "increase in power" and "increase in level. The fact I even have to explain this to you is mind numbing to say the absolute least.

1. The highest level of Susanoo is PS.
2. Sasuke gets Rikudo's power, and his PS increases in size and strength, but it is still PS. Just like the rest of his Susanoo variants. They are all the same levels (Complete, Ribcage) but since Sasuke's chakra is far stronger, those Susanoo are far stronger.

Madara's chakra is far stronger and larger than Sasuke's. That's why his PS dwarfs Sasuke's in size and in general power. Yet they are still both Perfect Susanoo. Same goes for their Complete Susanoo, Armored Susanoo, etc. Yet they are still the same exact level. On the other hand.....

We have MS Sasuke going from a Ribcage, to a Skeletal, to a Complete, to an Armored. Then he gets EMS and upgrades to the highest level, PS. That is a change in level. The above is a chance in strength. Read this over multiple times before you reply, because this isn't the first time I've explained it.

And to answer your post. :lol Where did I say that Bijuu PS isn't a change in power? Obviously it is, when Sasuke has the Bijuu Chakra itself. This goes back to another unanswered explanation where Sasuke's chakra stays the same regardless of the shape of his Susanoo, thus it will be the same strength. You replied with "It's a higher level of Susanoo....." even though it's not. Pure fanfiction. PS changing it's shape doesn't equal PS changing it's level. There is no level of Susanoo above PS. The only thing that changes when the chakra of the wielder gets stronger is the power of the PS itself.

Get this "Ultimate Susanoo" fanfiction nonsense out of here. Manga made it clear that Bijuu PS is PS, but with Bijuu chakra.

They're the same thing, so obviously it will.

Same type. Not the same amount or strength. Try again. Your logic is identical to me saying that everyone with Rikudo's power is equal. Stop using garbage logic.

How come it has nothing to do with anything?

Explained above. Twice now.

 

[KidGamer65]

I'll get the rest of the post in a minute. Accidentally hit submit.

 

[KidGamer65]

And what proves that? Where is it that there is no level of Susanoo above PS? In your encyclopedia?

In the Manga. A fan's crying and speculation means little to me.

Same type of chakra = same strength of chakra. Pretty basic and imminent logic. Amount is can be different though and is irrelevant. And yes, Six Paths chakra = Juubi's chakra, power-wise. Six Paths chakra is the exact same thing as Juubi's chakra.

You here this guys? We have this guy actually claiming that since it's all Six Path's chakra, it's all the same strength. I guess:

JJ Madara=Kakashi=Teen Sasuke=Adult Sasuke=Juubito=RSM Naruto=Hagoromo=Kaguya=Hamura in strength of chakra, even though this is clearly been shown to be false.

:lol. Let me take this time to apologize...to myself, for taking you seriously.

REASONS

1. Origin-wise, Six Paths chakra was purely inherited by Hagoromo from Kaguya (Juubi). That means the source of Six Paths chakra is the Juubi, so how the hell they are not the same thing?

Never said they weren't. Your inability to read before you reply is getting on my nerves. My post clearly states "Not the same amount and strength".

2. Feat-wise, Kakashi had Juubi's chakra with which he created PS w/MS. And that was basically Six Paths chakra as stated elsewhere by Madara and Obito, and also because it creates Six Paths Senjutsu. And Indra had Six Paths chakra with which he created PS w/MS. This proves that they are equal in power.

Extremely retarded comparison. Indra and Kakashi being able to use PS w/ MS doesn't prove that their chakra is equal in strength. Stupidest thing I've heard today. That means that they were both strong enough to do so, not that they are dead equal in chakra potency. It's hilarious how you are actually asserting that Rikudo's son, who inherited his power, has the chakra potency of a guy who got a piece of Madara's power.

3. Another feat-wise, Naruto uses Six Paths Senjutsu using Six Paths chakra, and Madara uses the same Six Paths Senjutsu using Juubi's chakra, proving they're even and the same thing.

No. It proves that they are the same type of chakra, which no one ever disputed. It being the same amount and same type is what was disputed, but for some strange ass reason you are still replying to me as if I claimed the former. :lol. Get your reading comp up so we can have a discussion that isn't a waste of time.

You're the one who is actually basing your argument off of nothing. Plus, there are massive flaws in your argument.
- says there is no level of Susanoo above PS out of nowhere.
- calls the exact same chakra different.

-Yes guys. Because the Manga showing PS to be the highest level of Susanoo is me basing my claims "out of nowhere". While the guy who actually thinks "Ultimate Susanoo" is a thing has undeniable proof. Lord.

-Nope. Like I said, get those reading comp skills up and read above.

And who says that?

LOL, WTF is this?
- says Susanoo is powered up
- says Susanoo is same level

A specific level of Susanoo when powered up = upgraded level of Susanoo. No rocket science here. And yes, the level of Susanoo changes (ups) when it is powered up. Denying this is the finest of ignorance.

Wrong. Again. But not surprising given the quality of your argumentation above and below this point. Ribcage to Skeletal is an upgrade in level. PS formed by EMS Sasuke and PS formed by RG Sasuke isn't a change in level, it's a change in the power of the Susanoo itself, but this has been explained below.

Yeah, so? We're addressing THAT Susanoo by this name. Any objections?

The Manga objects. Your fanfic "Ultimate Susanoo" is Perfect Susanoo taking another shape. If I were to stoop down to your level and start using this shit logic, I'd be saying that Iso Susanoo isn't Perfect Susanoo, but another level just because it changed shape.

Yeah, keep saying that... Without any proof, this has no value in my eyes.

PS is the highest level shown in this Manga. Burden of proof is on you and anyone else who thinks that Bijuu PS isn't PS.

Yeah, that's obvious.

Yet you are still claiming that Bijuu PS is another level of Susanoo, despite there being no evidence for that claim besides the change in shape. :lol. So now we have you making nonsense arguments and you can't even abide by your own crap logic?

Yeah, I'm not. You're misunderstanding.

Yes, you are. As shown above, and below.


Yeah, and so it is.

BijuuPS being nothing more than PS powered by bijuus' chakra is your opinion. And I'm not buying it.

This is sig worthy material here.

Shape isn't the only thing that changes. The power of BijuuPS is on a completely different scale than before. So the power level (Susanoo level) also changes. Which demolishes your point that their is no level above PS.

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Can we stop trying to twist the terminology of this argument around? Please learn how to argue, properly.

Susanoo level=Is the level of the Susanoo in terms of "Ribcage, Skeletal, etc".
Power level=How strong the Susanoo actually is.

Susanoo getting stronger=/=Susanoo increasing in level. EMS Sasuke and Rinnegan Sasuke both have PS. The only difference between them is that Sasuke's is bigger and larger because he has bigger and stronger chakra. Did PS become something different? No, it didn't.

Rinnegan has no business with Susanoo. It only provides access to MS/EMS powers since they're fused together. Technically, MS/EMS is what creates the Susanoo. So it's not irrelevant.

Never said it did. :lol. I'm basically saying that we are discussing Rikudo Sasuke, not EMS Sasuke pre power up. Maybe I should've simplified it since you seem to be having a hard time understanding the words in my post.

A drawing error does not occur twice in the same chapter, especially when one of them was a close up view, and most importantly with Kishi's cemented mindset to draw EMS. Previously, he has a mindset of drawing MS, so the excuse about drawing error was valid then, but not now.

Good to know that you are Kishimoto or at least knows the rules behind Kishimoto's MISTAKES. It doesn't take much brain power to figure out that Sasuke's MS is an EMS. But EMS Sasuke isn't even relevant to the discussion.

I've already shown that. And with a way more logical argument than yours. Here's how:
1. 9 bijuus chakra combined = Juubi's chakra = Six Paths chakra (derived from Juubi). Therefore, if Juubi's chakra can do something, Six Paths chakra can also do it. Which means Sasuke can create "BijuuPS" and produce Indra's Arrow on his own since he has Juubi's chakra indirectly. [Manifest fact. But you don't want to accept this because it is fatal for your argument]

I don't want to acknowledge the idiocy that is "All Six Paths chakra is the same strength". I've already agreed that it's possible for him to create Bijuu PS and use Indra's Arrow on his own. I'm just waiting for you or OP to prove that it'd be stronger than his regular Susanoo in the physical area.

2. Having a boost in power of chakra with the same dojutsu ups the level of Susanoo, logically and as proven. So BijuuPS is another level of Susanoo since it utilizes a more powerful chakra with the same dojutsu. [You deny this without reason or evidence]

Does it up the power of Susanoo? Yes. Always. Does it up the level? Yes, until you reach Perfect Susanoo. Period. You haven't proven shit nor can you prove shit. Bijuu PS is PS, but with a far stronger chakra than before. There is no level above PS. I'm still waiting for you to prove this fanfiction, because your garbage argument is basically saying that since Bijuu PS>PS, it has to be another level, even though Susanoo getting stronger via chakra potency boosts=/=Susanoo changing into a completely different level.

3. EMS + Sasuke's chakra = PS. Therefore, EMS + Six Paths chakra (Juubi's chakra) = Susanoo of greater level than PS = BijuuPS. [Factual derivation]

Wrong. As explained multiple times.

It's not about what I think. No noticeable advancements have been shown in the power of jutsus before and after EMS. Which is why I'm saying they haven't.

Yet Obito has made it clear that an advancement in Dojutsu=An advancement in chakra potency. Not debatable, so stop trying to argue it.

Obviously. And that doesn't imply having a more powerful chakra. Only enhanced powers.

I'm going to go ahead and agree with Obito here when he says that Rinnegan granted him a powerful chakra, and not agree with the guy blatantly ignoring Obito's statement. :lol. Why do I even bother arguing with people in NDS?


Yes, Rinnegan had a (more) powerful chakra locked inside of it. But Itachi's MS had the same powered chakra locked inside of it as Sasuke's own MS, so it only increased the chakra quantity, not chakra quality.

Scans of those Shunshin feats? And proof that chakra power is the only thing that improves Shunshin?

If I recall, weren't you the one that said Adult Sasuke's speed >>>> RG Sasuke (quote below)? But apparently, both those versions of Sasuke had the same power of chakra. So why did Adult Sasuke received such a massive boost in speed compared to Rinnegan Sasuke while having the same chakra (if chakra power is the only thing that empowers Shunshin)? Any explanations?

Adult Sasuke and Teen Sasuke are not the same when it comes to chakra potency. :lol. Jesus Christ. The Last Sasuke was obliterating Meteors with the same Chidori that could only wreck Hashirama and Madara's statues with an Enton enhancement and the help of Naruto's Rasengan enhanced with Kurama's power. That is a boost in chakra potency. The power of the jutsu changed without him actually changing the jutsu itself.



To sum up your idiotic argument:

-Bijuu PS is another level of Susanoo because it's stronger. :lol.

Even though:

-Madara's chakra>>>EMS Sasuke's chakra, yet they share the same levels of Susanoo. Only difference is that one is better.
-Shape change=/=Change in level.
-RG Sasuke's chakra>>>>EMS Sasuke's chakra, yet they share the same levels of Susanoo. Only difference is that one is better.

We also have this gem:

-All Six Paths Chakra is equal in all areas.

:lol. Not even worth countering a second time. I guess JJ Madara=Juubito in chakra. Guess Kakashi=JJ Hagoromo in chakra. Guess Kaguya=Kakashi or Obito in chakra potency as well.

 

[The Demon Hawk]

No, because it literally has nothing to do with the argument.

Yeah, YOU think. EMS was relevant in the instances I've mentioned it. You just got to have the brains to understand.

If you are going to jump into an argument between me and another member, read before you reply so you don't come in here looking like a fool.

No need for this useless irrelevant suggestion. It's not the case.

This argument talks about Rinnegan Sasuke's Susanoo, in comparison to a Susanoo he could hypothetically make. Please tell me how how the hell EMS Sasuke has anything to do with this. I'll wait for you to start making coherent arguments.

I already told you. The instances I mentioned EMS was for the sake of comparison. EMS signifies a specific level. And they were relevant.

Except there is no such thing.

There is. Sorry, there is no way I'm letting you settle believing otherwise. If you believe its body type is based on PS, then I can call it the Ultimate PS or Advanced PS.

Can we please stop being an immature little child and start reading the Manga.

Yeah, you can. That'd be very helpful.

I expected an intelligent discussion from you, but of course, I was wrong to expect such.

Same here, buddy. I thought you were somewhat sensible. But it turns out when it comes to siding with Naruto or opposing Sasuke, you become a complete dumbass.

Mainly because of your poor grasp of the English language.

LOL. Your implications have nothing to do with my grasp of the language. Ambiguity in context exist in all languages in including English, and as far as I've seen (including this post), we've both fallen victim to it.

Ribcage, Skeletal, Complete, Armored, Complete Body-Susanoo. (Perfect Susanoo) Those are the levels of Susanoo. Anything and everything else is fanfiction. End. Of. Story.

Okay, so if that is what you mean, then it's completely right, and I agree with it. The reason I misconceived it was because I initially didn't think you would include something as irrelevant as Susanoo's body development levels in an argument about it's power level, so I thought your point about "level" implied the power level. That's why when you said there is no level above PS, I disagreed. But now I agree w.r.t to your point of view because I understood the context now, something which you are yet to do.

And frankly, its body development stages are irrelevant as hell. If you agree that BijuuPS's power level is in a completely different league than PS, then you basically agree that its level (power level) has changed (advanced). Whether it's body level has progressed or not is completely irrelevant to this discussion. I don't know why TF did you even include that? That's what caused most of the damn confusion.

So back to the discussion, we're both basically addressing the same thing with mixed up terms.
- You agree that BijuuPS has a different level of power, but refuse to call it an upgraded level of Susanoo because it has the same body type with a changed shape.
- I'm calling the BijuuPS a different level of PS based on the different level of power based on the differing levels of power.

So basically, according to your logic, 3 faced Kurama Avatar is also nothing more than Kurama Avatar with large amounts of Senjutsu chakra. It has a power in a completely different league so it differs in power level, but it is not another level of Kurama Avatar since body level is same.

If that's the case, then I think we're roughly on the same page, and settling this argument will be a lot easier, i.e. you accept BijuuPS to be upgraded in power, but not call it an upgraded level of Susanoo due to same body level and also agree that Sasuke can create it whenever he desires, then I'm perfectly fine by that because you're saying exactly what I'm saying, just in a different way.

Your opinion isn't going to cut it, especially when you are using a name made up by fans.

I'm using the name made up by fans because it does not have any official name, just for the sake of addressing that specific type of Susanoo that HAS an upgraded power level compared to just PS.

The only one confused is you. So let me break this down into a format even a daft kid could understand.

Thanks. Although you're stating the same exact thing.

1. EMS grants more powerful chakra which ups the STRENGTH of the Susanoo. Don't get it twisted. Then you won't sound like you can't read the English language.

2. Rikudo's power grants more powerful chakra, which ups the STRENGTH of the Susanoo.

Yes, they both up the strength of the existing levels of Susanoo, but they also add another level (power level, not body level) to the Susanoo.

Please tell me where I said that EMS and Rikudo Chakra boost the level of Susanoo when I've been saying this whole time that there is no level above Susanoo. Don't worry. I'll wait.

Yes, you were referring to the irrelevant body levels, not the power levels. So going by that, I agree that you didn't say the level of Susanoo was upgraded.

Been explained. Can we stop acting like an idiot? It's pretty annoying.

Yes, you can.

No such thing.

Depends upon your perception.

Which is irrelevant because PS to Bijuu PS is not a progression of level.

Again, depends upon your perception. Whether you consider "progression in level" to be a "progression in level of power" or "progression in level of body stages".

Progression in power level? Yes.
Progression is body stages? No.

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Before you reply to me, separate "increase in power" and "increase in level. The fact I even have to explain this to you is mind numbing to say the absolute least.

Stop acting like a child. And stop believing that everyone should think the way you do. In other words, stop being so close-minded. "Increase in level" can be interpreted as "increase in power" IF "you're addressing power level".

And BTW, you're the one who added confusion in the first place by including irrelevant Susanoo body levels in this argument.

1. The highest level of Susanoo is PS.

In terms of body development stages? Yes.

2. Sasuke gets Rikudo's power, and his PS increases in size and strength, but it is still PS. Just like the rest of his Susanoo variants. They are all the same levels (Complete, Ribcage) but since Sasuke's chakra is far stronger, those Susanoo are far stronger.

I agree. But that's not all there is to it. In addition to enhanced strength for all the existing power levels, Rikodou chakra also introduces another power level just like how EMS did with the enhancement in power. The only difference is that EMS's newly introduced power level was also a progression in body level, whereas Rikodou chakra's is not.

Plus, Rikodou chakra = Juubi chakra (they're both from the same source and PURELY inherited), so Sasuke can create BijuuPS. Even if you don't want to call it another level of Susanoo. It might not be the same strength though.

Madara's chakra is far stronger and larger than Sasuke's. That's why his PS dwarfs Sasuke's in size and in general power. Yet they are still both Perfect Susanoo. Same goes for their Complete Susanoo, Armored Susanoo, etc. Yet they are still the same exact level. On the other hand.....

We have MS Sasuke going from a Ribcage, to a Skeletal, to a Complete, to an Armored. Then he gets EMS and upgrades to the highest level, PS. That is a change in level. The above is a chance in strength. Read this over multiple times before you reply, because this isn't the first time I've explained it.

Okay, I get your mindset (without acting like the close-minded child like you). And found out that we're both on the same page. I agree with the above. But in addition to what you said about strength being improved due to chakra quality, I'm trying to emphasize that another power level is also introduced.

And to answer your post. :lol Where did I say that Bijuu PS isn't a change in power? Obviously it is, when Sasuke has the Bijuu Chakra itself. This goes back to another unanswered explanation where Sasuke's chakra stays the same regardless of the shape of his Susanoo, thus it will be the same strength. You replied with "It's a higher level of Susanoo....." even though it's not. Pure fanfiction. PS changing it's shape doesn't equal PS changing it's level. There is no level of Susanoo above PS. The only thing that changes when the chakra of the wielder gets stronger is the power of the PS itself.

Get this "Ultimate Susanoo" fanfiction nonsense out of here. Manga made it clear that Bijuu PS is PS, but with Bijuu chakra.

Okay, so let's settle this. (You wouldn't be able to do this, since you don't understand other people's mindset and implications, but since I grasp the other person's mindset, I'll help solve this issue)

- BijuuPS is an upgraded form of Susanoo in terms of power level.
- But it is the same body level with changed shape, so you can't call it another level of Susanoo.
- Sasuke can create it using his own Six Paths chakra. But it's strength may vary depending upon chakra quality.

If you agree with all of the above, then you're basically agreeing with everything I say. So this argument stands mostly settled.

Same type. Not the same amount or strength. Try again. Your logic is identical to me saying that everyone with Rikudo's power is equal. Stop using garbage logic.

(Read below for this)

In the Manga. A fan's crying and speculation means little to me.

Different perceptions, dude. You're the one crying about it.

You here this guys? We have this guy actually claiming that since it's all Six Path's chakra, it's all the same strength. I guess:

JJ Madara=Kakashi=Teen Sasuke=Adult Sasuke=Juubito=RSM Naruto=Hagoromo=Kaguya=Hamura in strength of chakra, even though this is clearly been shown to be false.

:lol. Let me take this time to apologize...to myself, for taking you seriously.

(Okay, before going further, I admit that although I didn't say it wrong, I did however state my sentence in an ambiguous way, so it could give off a meaning that I did not exactly imply, so I'll explain below)

They're not ABSOLUTELY equal, dude. Chakra matures over time. That causes slight variations in strength of the specific powers over time. But it does not completely revamp the level of power. That's what I mean. The level of power is same with each Six Paths chakra which means you can achieve the same level of power with any Six Paths chakra. But within that power level, the quality of Six Paths chakra (how matured it is) decides how much strength that technique will possess.

This means that Teen Sasuke could create BijuuPS (same power level) if he had enough Six Paths chakra, although it may not have the same strength as what he actually created with bijuus chakra because his chakra quality then would be inferior to Juubi's chakra. But Adult Sasuke had a considerably more matured chakra, so it is around equal in strength to that of bijuus chakra if not stronger. So now, he can create BijuuPS with the same strength (not just the same power level) as VOTE 2 BijuuPS, if not stronger.

Never said they weren't. Your inability to read before you reply is getting on my nerves. My post clearly states "Not the same amount and strength".

Yes, they are "not the same amount and strength", but they can achieve the same level of power (regardless of the variation in strength). That is what same power is. (I do acknowledge that I should have used the word "power" instead of "strength" before, that MIGHT have cleared up some confusion supposedly that had occurred)

e.g Indra's Arrow = an upgraded level of power
(Both Bijuus chakra and Teen Sasuke's Six Paths chakra can achieve this level of power)
But Bijuus chakra Indra's Arrow > Teen Sasuke's Six Paths chakra Indra's Arrow (in strength, because Sasuke's chakra isn't as matured as bijuus chakra)
But Adult Sasuke's Six Paths chakra Indra's Arrow > Bijuus chakra Indra's Arrow

Now get the point?

Extremely retarded comparison. Indra and Kakashi being able to use PS w/ MS doesn't prove that their chakra is equal in strength. Stupidest thing I've heard today. That means that they were both strong enough to do so, not that they are dead equal in chakra potency. It's hilarious how you are actually asserting that Rikudo's son, who inherited his power, has the chakra potency of a guy who got a piece of Madara's power.

I never said that they were dead equal in chakra potency. But they both can achieve the same level of power with variations in strength depending upon how matured their chakra is. Indra obviously being the pure inheritor of Sage's chakra has achieve the same level of power with MS i.e. PS, and Kakashi can do the same, but the strength of their respective PS might not be exactly even.

No. It proves that they are the same type of chakra, which no one ever disputed. It being the same amount and same type is what was disputed, but for some strange ass reason you are still replying to me as if I claimed the former. :lol. Get your reading comp up so we can have a discussion that isn't a waste of time.

Sorry for that. You also have kind of a limited comprehension so you can't see the broader perspective of my argument instead of understanding and deriving the meaning word to word like a f***ing computer. And I'm not a genius either, I'm also under the same umbrella. So that results in both of us not being able to come to terms with each other's mindset. And we're indirectly saying the same thing but disagreeing with each other at the same time.

-Yes guys. Because the Manga showing PS to be the highest level of Susanoo is me basing my claims "out of nowhere". While the guy who actually thinks "Ultimate Susanoo" is a thing has undeniable proof. Lord.

PS is the highest level of Susanoo in bodily development? Yes. [what you implied]
BijuuPS (Ultimate Susanoo) is the highest level of Susanoo in power level? Yes. [what I implied]

None of us was wrong. So are we set there?

Wrong. Again. But not surprising given the quality of your argumentation above and below this point.

Your isn't any better.

Ribcage to Skeletal is an upgrade in level.

Yes...

Ribcage to Skeletal = upgrade in body level (and naturally, upgrade in power level as well)
(Similarly) Armored to PS = upgrade in body level and power level
PS to BPS = upgrade in power level ONLY
Pre-Rikodou PS to Post-Rikodou PS = upgrade in strength due to chakra maturing

PS formed by EMS Sasuke and PS formed by RG Sasuke isn't a change in level, it's a change in the power of the Susanoo itself, but this has been explained below.

Yes, since we're just talking about the PS form...

The Manga objects. Your fanfic "Ultimate Susanoo" is Perfect Susanoo taking another shape.

.....and another power level.

If I were to stoop down to your level and start using this shit logic, I'd be saying that Iso Susanoo isn't Perfect Susanoo, but another level just because it changed shape.

Bulls*** correspondence. This is not my logic. Iso Susanoo has no change in the power level of Susanoo itself, it changes the shape ONLY. Whereas BPS changes in shape (which is not the real issue, I don't know why TF you make it relevant), but adds a completely new and stronger level of power. That's why it can be said to be a different level Susanoo based on power level.

PS is the highest level shown in this Manga. Burden of proof is on you and anyone else who thinks that Bijuu PS isn't PS.

Okay. And corresponding proof is given elsewhere in this post.

Yet you are still claiming that Bijuu PS is another level of Susanoo, despite there being no evidence for that claim besides the change in shape. :lol. So now we have you making nonsense arguments and you can't even abide by your own crap logic?

Shape of BPS changes compared to PS, but shape change =/= another level of Susanoo.
The real reason why BPS can be declared another level of Susanoo is because of the change in caliber of powers.

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Can we stop trying to twist the terminology of this argument around? Please learn how to argue, properly.

Susanoo level=Is the level of the Susanoo in terms of "Ribcage, Skeletal, etc".
Power level=How strong the Susanoo actually is.

We're both misunderstanding each other's stated terminologies. I'm not the only one blamable. You're also just grasping my words instead of the context (a sign of limited comprehension skills), and are equally blamable.

But I've simplified the terminologies in this post so deliver the exact meaning, no ambiguity.

Susanoo body level = level of the Susanoo in terms of "Ribcage, Skeletal, etc". (Although this is completely irrelevant in our argument, but I've included this in this post on all occasions to clarify the misconceptions).
Susanoo power level = the set or caliber of powers the Susanoo can achieve.
Strength = how strong the Susanoo actually is as well as its jutsus.

Susanoo getting stronger=/=Susanoo increasing in level.

Right. But I didn't say Susanoo increased in power level because of Susanoo getting stronger, but because a new caliber of powers were introduced with it. It got stronger but that's another thing. I'm not relating the two.

EMS Sasuke and Rinnegan Sasuke both have PS. The only difference between them is that Sasuke's is bigger and larger because he has bigger and stronger chakra. Did PS become something different? No, it didn't.

Exactly, it didn't. PS itself was the same power level with difference in strength due to Six Paths chakra. But BijuuPS is a new dimension in power level, its strength depends upon the chakra potency and the body type remains same as PS.

Never said it did. :lol. I'm basically saying that we are discussing Rikudo Sasuke, not EMS Sasuke pre power up. Maybe I should've simplified it since you seem to be having a hard time understanding the words in my post.

Got it.

@bold I feel the same way.

Good to know that you are Kishimoto or at least knows the rules behind Kishimoto's MISTAKES. It doesn't take much brain power to figure out that Sasuke's MS is an EMS. But EMS Sasuke isn't even relevant to the discussion.

Doesn't logical argument suit you, buddy?

BTW, this post is ironic.

I don't want to acknowledge the idiocy that is "All Six Paths chakra is the same strength".

You don't have to. It's explained above.

I've already agreed that it's possible for him to create Bijuu PS and use Indra's Arrow on his own.

Really? Then that's just perfectly set. That's what I've been trying to convince. Well, unless you believe BijuuPS is a mere shape change, then that gets us nowhere.

I'm just waiting for you or OP to prove that it'd be stronger than his regular Susanoo in the physical area.

You mean BPS being stronger than PS?

The difference between the power level of BijuuPS and PS is around the same as the difference between the power level of PS and Full Body. This is a new dimension of power. Yes, they're both created using similarly potent chakra just like PS and Full Body are, but the difference in their power level also exists just like the difference between PS and Full Body? The strength of each power level of Susanoo depends upon the chakra potency however which is same for all.

Does it up the power of Susanoo? Yes. Always. Does it up the level? Yes, until you reach Perfect Susanoo. Period. You haven't proven shit nor can you prove shit. Bijuu PS is PS, but with a far stronger chakra than before. There is no level above PS. I'm still waiting for you to prove this fanfiction, because your garbage argument is basically saying that since Bijuu PS>PS, it has to be another level, even though Susanoo getting stronger via chakra potency boosts=/=Susanoo changing into a completely different level.

I've already explained this in this very post, so don't feel like repeating it.

Yet Obito has made it clear that an advancement in Dojutsu=An advancement in chakra potency. Not debatable, so stop trying to argue it.

Lame comparison. That dojutsu was of a different type.

I'm going to go ahead and agree with Obito here when he says that Rinnegan granted him a powerful chakra, and not agree with the guy blatantly ignoring Obito's statement. :lol. Why do I even bother arguing with people in NDS?

I didn't disagree with Obito's statement. I also disgreed with your pathetic comprehension and correspondence.

Adult Sasuke and Teen Sasuke are not the same when it comes to chakra potency. :lol. Jesus Christ. The Last Sasuke was obliterating Meteors with the same Chidori that could only wreck Hashirama and Madara's statues with an Enton enhancement and the help of Naruto's Rasengan enhanced with Kurama's power. That is a boost in chakra potency. The power of the jutsu changed without him actually changing the jutsu itself.

I agree. I didn't contradict with this, and have already explained my point of view that comes to terms with this. But partly due to my flawed stating and partly due to your limited comprehension, you generally perceive it wrong.

To sum up your idiotic argument:

-Bijuu PS is another level of Susanoo because it's stronger. :lol.

Not quite. I've already said that although it is stronger, it introduces a new level of power, which is why it can be declared to be another level of Susanoo in terms of power

Even though:

-Madara's chakra>>>EMS Sasuke's chakra, yet they share the same levels of Susanoo. Only difference is that one is better.

Exactly. That's what I implied too. But maybe not in the best of ways, so it created understanding gaps.

-Shape change=/=Change in level.

Yeah. But BijuuPS is not just shape change. It is a change in power level, although not the change in body type.

-RG Sasuke's chakra>>>>EMS Sasuke's chakra, yet they share the same levels of Susanoo. Only difference is that one is better.

Yeah, exactly. But in addition to that, RG Sasuke also has a new level of Susanoo in terms of power i.e. BijuuPS.

We also have this gem:

-All Six Paths Chakra is equal in all areas.

:lol. Not even worth countering a second time. I guess JJ Madara=Juubito in chakra. Guess Kakashi=JJ Hagoromo in chakra. Guess Kaguya=Kakashi or Obito in chakra potency as well.

No need to counter it the second time. Because it doesn't imply what you perceive.

 

[Ansatsuken]

This thread will explode seeing the length of every posts and up coming post(from KG and TDH)

God bring Kishi here please.

 

[KidGamer65]

This is the main argument. The rest is irrelevant since it's been made clear that Bijuu PS is not an evolution in the same sense as V3 to V4, so replying to anything else is a waste of my time.

You mean BPS being stronger than PS?

The difference between the power level of BijuuPS and PS is around the same as the difference between the power level of PS and Full Body. This is a new dimension of power. Yes, they're both created using similarly potent chakra just like PS and Full Body are, but the difference in their power level also exists just like the difference between PS and Full Body? The strength of each power level of Susanoo depends upon the chakra potency however which is same for all.

What are you even going on about? Jesus. The only reason PS and Full Body are far apart in power is because PS is the next level of full body just like V3 is the next level of V4. Bijuu PS is not the next level of PS in that context, as shown above and in every single post I've made up until now. Bijuu PS is PS and the only reason it's stronger is because it has Juubi's chakra in it along with Sasuke's preexisting chakra. Adult Sasuke isn't adding anything of greater or different power when he changes PS's shape to the humanoid shape. Thus Adult Sasuke's PS=Hypothetical Adult sasuke's humanoid Susanoo formed with his own chakra in physical ability. The only thing that'd make one stronger than the other is Indra's Arrow.

Lame comparison. That dojutsu was of a different type.

Yet it did the same exact thing EMS did to Sasuke. Granted him a new type of chakra. Itachi's chakra+Sasuke's chakra>Sasuke's chakra alone in size and power.

Yeah, exactly. But in addition to that, RG Sasuke also has a new level of Susanoo in terms of power i.e. BijuuPS.

In terms of power only. Which isn't relevant to your original claim, one that seems to have escaped you. :lol. So let me do you the favor of reminding you.

Just like how the durability and physical stats of V4 MS Susanoo increases when compared to V2 MS Susanoo while having the same chakra potency. Sasuke's power and magnitude output also matters and can be varied.

Plus, the dojutsu level also has an impact on the power of Susanoo, so same chakra with MS will be inferior to same chakra with EMS. This is just like how PS (max EMS Susanoo) is upped in power compared to V4 Susanoo (max MS Susanoo) by upgrading from MS to EMS keeping chakra potency same.

You say that Bijuu PS>PS despite Sasuke's chakra potency in this case being the exact same based on the fact that V4 Susanoo>V2 Susanoo despite MS Sasuke's chakra potency being the same. Yet Bijuu PS is not an evolution like V2--->V3--->V4 is, so you've yet to back up the claim with a valid argument.

 

[The Demon Hawk]

This is the main argument. The rest is irrelevant since it's been made clear that Bijuu PS is not an evolution in the same sense as V3 to V4,

Yeah, it has been made clear that BijuuPS is not an evolution of PS in the same sense as V4 is of V3, because:
- V3 to V4 is an upgrade in terms of power level as well as body development stage.
- PS to BijuuPS is solely an upgrade in power level and relies on the same body level.

so replying to anything else is a waste of my time.

It's a relief that you took the initiative to trim the argument. Because honestly, I was feeling tired of the constant follow up and lengthy reply. But was compelled to reply to the entire thing to make things clearer with effective explanation, and couldn't cut down the argument since I had the burden of proof (I was on the answering side).

What are you even going on about? Jesus. The only reason PS and Full Body are far apart in power is because PS is the next level of full body just like V3 is the next level of V4.

True. But that is not the only reason.

It's pretty straightforward and obvious that a bodily upgrade of Susanoo will result in the increase in its power level. Hence, Full Body to PS results in amplified power. But a bodily upgrade is not the sole requirement to surge Susanoo's power level. That's where PS to BijuuPS upgrade fits in.

Bijuu PS is not the next level of PS in that context, as shown above and in every single post I've made up until now.

Yes, and I've come to terms with that after understanding your point of view.

And as I already said, BPS may not be the next level of PS in that context, but being the next level in body stages is not the only condition to be the next level in power department. PS to BPS upgrade is in the latter principle.

Bijuu PS is PS and the only reason it's stronger is because it has Juubi's chakra in it along with Sasuke's preexisting chakra.

That literally means it is the next level in power classification.

That's right. But if Sasuke's own chakra is equal to Juubi's chakra in terms of power (which Adult Sasuke's chakra is BTW), then Sasuke's chakra alone can create BijuuPS of similar strength by simply serving the purpose of bijuus' chakra. Their will be no need to "add" Juubi's chakra to Sasuke's preexisting chakra, because Sasuke's own Six Paths chakra will serve the function for both. Chakra consumption will presumably be doubled though.

As I've already mentioned before, Juubi's chakra = Six Paths chakra. So both can achieve the same power level but may have variations in strength depending upon the quality of chakra. Sasuke's chakra as of now, has matured enough to come on the same level as Juubi's chakra, if not slightly stronger. So Sasuke can create PS using his Six Paths chakra (which will be slightly stronger than before due to chakra maturing) and amplify it by adding more Six Paths chakra (as a substitute for Juubi's chakra) making BPS (stronger than VOTE 2) by doubling the chakra usage.

So basically, chakra quantity put into them differentiates the two Susanoos making them not a bodily upgrade (as the mechanism indicates) but a pure power bump. And this also finally and completely answers your question whether Sasuke's BPS will be greater in power compared to his PS despite having the same power chakra.

Adult Sasuke isn't adding anything of greater or different power when he changes PS's shape to the humanoid shape. Thus Adult Sasuke's PS=Hypothetical Adult sasuke's humanoid Susanoo formed with his own chakra in physical ability. The only thing that'd make one stronger than the other is Indra's Arrow.

(Addressed this above)

Yet it did the same exact thing EMS did to Sasuke. Granted him a new type of chakra. Itachi's chakra+Sasuke's chakra>Sasuke's chakra alone in size and power.

The point is Rinnegan contained a different type of chakra i.e. a more powerful chakra. Itachi's MS will possess the exact same chakra as Sasuke's own MS. Them adding together to make a more powerful chakra makes no sense.

And what EMS did to Sasuke was boost his MS powers. The rest of the powers (if enhanced) were probably due to Sasuke's own natural chakra maturity, not because Itachi's MS boosted Sasuke's chakra quality.

In terms of power only.

Yes.

Which isn't relevant to your original claim, one that seems to have escaped you. :lol. So let me do you the favor of reminding you.

No, that hasn't escaped me. And it is 100% relevant to my original claim since I was referring to advancements in power level only, from the very beginning. I only differentiated the upgrade after understanding and countering your irrelevant inclusion of bodily upgrade levels which I never thought could or should be included in this argument.

You say that Bijuu PS>PS despite Sasuke's chakra potency in this case being the exact same based on the fact that V4 Susanoo>V2 Susanoo despite MS Sasuke's chakra potency being the same. Yet Bijuu PS is not an evolution like V2--->V3--->V4 is, so you've yet to back up the claim with a valid argument.

I've already explained this in my previous post, but I'll state it again anyway. You're confusing this only because you're constantly trying to accommodate and emphasize upon the bodily upgrades which are completely irrelevant.

I agreed that BijuuPS is not the bodily evolution of PS as V4 is of V2, since PS is the peak form of bodily upgrade (this is still irrelevant, I don't know why you've to keep mentioning this). The main thing is that they can be considered to be the same caliber of upgrades in power level. And since I was only referring to advancement in power level by "upgrade" and "upper level", then in THAT sense, V2 to V4 is the same kind of upgrade as PS to BijuuPS.

No contradicting my previous statement... The sooner you understand, the better.

 

[Devauzamaki]

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[KidGamer65]

True. But that is not the only reason.

It's pretty straightforward and obvious that a bodily upgrade of Susanoo will result in the increase in its power level. Hence, Full Body to PS results in amplified power. But a bodily upgrade is not the sole requirement to surge Susanoo's power level. That's where PS to BijuuPS upgrade fits in.

That is the only reason. Did I say that it was the only way to boost Susanoo's power? No. But that's the only reason why V4 is stronger than V3, and why PS is stronger than V4. Because they are simply the next evolution. Something Bijuu PS isn't when it comes to regular PS.

And as I already said, BPS may not be the next level of PS in that context, but being the next level in body stages is not the only condition to be the next level in power department. PS to BPS upgrade is in the latter principle.

And the bold is only because Sasuke added new chakra to the mix, something he won't be doing here, thus it gets no stronger. Something you've yet to address with valid evidence.

That literally means it is the next level in power classification.

That's right. But if Sasuke's own chakra is equal to Juubi's chakra in terms of power (which Adult Sasuke's chakra is BTW), then Sasuke's chakra alone can create BijuuPS of similar strength by simply serving the purpose of bijuus' chakra. Their will be no need to "add" Juubi's chakra to Sasuke's preexisting chakra, because Sasuke's own Six Paths chakra will serve the function for both. Chakra consumption will presumably be doubled though.

Not the argument here. I suggest you read and understand what the debate is about before you reply again. I'm not debating whether or not Adult Sasuke can recreate the Bijuu PS that Sasuke used at VoTe. I'm debating whether or not it'll be any stronger than his normal Perfect Susanoo. If it were to turn out that his Bijuu PS is as strong as the PS at VoTe, then his normal PS would be equal too.

And then there's the fact that you've yet to prove that Sasuke's chakra=Juubi's in power, and even if it did, Bijuu PS=Juubi+VoTE 2 Sasuke. Adult Sasuke equalling the Juubi doesn't prove that he can replicate something equal to BPS.

As I've already mentioned before, Juubi's chakra = Six Paths chakra. So both can achieve the same power level but may have variations in strength depending upon the quality of chakra. Sasuke's chakra as of now, has matured enough to come on the same level as Juubi's chakra, if not slightly stronger. So Sasuke can create PS using his Six Paths chakra (which will be slightly stronger than before due to chakra maturing) and amplify it by adding more Six Paths chakra (as a substitute for Juubi's chakra) making BPS (stronger than VOTE 2) by doubling the chakra usage.

Baseless, and using more chakra to form Susanoo doesn't make it stronger. It's strength is based on chakra strength.

So basically, chakra quantity put into them differentiates the two Susanoos making them not a bodily upgrade (as the mechanism indicates) but a pure power bump. And this also finally and completely answers your question whether Sasuke's BPS will be greater in power compared to his PS despite having the same power chakra.

It explains nothing as it is completely inaccurate.

The point is Rinnegan contained a different type of chakra i.e. a more powerful chakra. Itachi's MS will possess the exact same chakra as Sasuke's own MS. Them adding together to make a more powerful chakra makes no sense.

What in the...? :lol. 2 powers merged together=Either power by themselves. That goes for almost anything let alone chakra. And the underlined is false. Itachi's MS contains Itachi's chakra, which is =/= Sasuke's chakra.

I've already explained this in my previous post, but I'll state it again anyway. You're confusing this only because you're constantly trying to accommodate and emphasize upon the bodily upgrades which are completely irrelevant.

I agreed that BijuuPS is not the bodily evolution of PS as V4 is of V2, since PS is the peak form of bodily upgrade (this is still irrelevant, I don't know why you've to keep mentioning this). The main thing is that they can be considered to be the same caliber of upgrades in power level. And since I was only referring to advancement in power level by "upgrade" and "upper level", then in THAT sense, V2 to V4 is the same kind of upgrade as PS to BijuuPS.

It's amazing how I'm still getting the same nonsense replies. The ONLY thing that Bijuu PS is, in terms of evolution, is an evolution of POWER. STRENGTH. Thus using V4, V3 and V2's advancements as evidence that Bijuu PS>PS is completely irrelevant and you never should've mentioned them to begin with.

 

[The Demon Hawk]

That is the only reason. Did I say that it was the only way to boost Susanoo's power? No. But that's the only reason why V4 is stronger than V3, and why PS is stronger than V4. Because they are simply the next evolution. Something Bijuu PS isn't when it comes to regular PS.

Unneeded post... You just stated the same thing that I said (rephrased my paragraph), and disagreed with me at the same time. You must be high for sure...

So let me state the same thing as you and I did, again (because that seems to be the only way to get it through your head):
- Upgrade in body level naturally results in the upgrade in power level (That's why V3, V4 etc which are upgrades in body levels are stronger than their previous forms)
- But upgrade in power level can also occur without the upgrade in body level (PS to BPS)

Let me state it in another way, so you understand better.
Upgrade in power level can occur in two ways:
1. Through upgrade in body level (V3, V4 etc)
2. Without upgrade in body level (BPS)

And the bold is only because Sasuke added new chakra to the mix, something he won't be doing here, thus it gets no stronger. Something you've yet to address with valid evidence.

Whether the chakra is new or old is irrelevant. You just need to have an equivalently powered chakra, which Sasuke HAS. I don't know from where you come up with senseless counters like these.

Not the argument here. I suggest you read and understand what the debate is about before you reply again. I'm not debating whether or not Adult Sasuke can recreate the Bijuu PS that Sasuke used at VoTe. I'm debating whether or not it'll be any stronger than his normal Perfect Susanoo. If it were to turn out that his Bijuu PS is as strong as the PS at VoTe, then his normal PS would be equal too.

I'm well aware of what the debate is about, and I added that bit of information because it was necessary for the explanation. The mechanism of Sasuke's recreation of BPS is indicative of whether his BPS will be stronger than his PS, and yes, it will be. Don't you have any deduction skills of your own?

Let me help you out with the inference. Again, for this I'll have to talk about Sasuke's mechanism of recreating BPS...

To create BPS at VOTE, Sasuke added Juubi's chakra to his PS (created with Six Paths chakra). To create it now, Sasuke will create PS similarly, and add an equivalent chakra to Juubi's chakra i.e. his own Six Paths chakra to that PS which will result in BPS. But since his own chakra is the source of it instead of the Juubi's chakra, Sasuke's chakra consumption will presumably be doubled due to more chakra being sucked out to fuel the BPS in that "Juubi chakra department". Susanoo doesn't care where the chakra comes from, all Susanoo wants to transform is Juubi's chakra whose equivalent Sasuke will provide.

This mechanism of recreation of BPS (which is logically true and completely inarguable logic-wise) clearly indicates that this BPS will be stronger than his PS, since it doubles the chakra consumption to add more power (increasing the chakra consumption will obviously add something i.e. power in this case). So this is a kind of upgrade which delivers more power in exchange for chakra quantity. Plus, it being a quantitative upgrade emphasizes the point that this is not a bodily upgrade, so it's more assuring.

Also, from the above mechanism, we can see that his BPS will be on the same power level (equivalent) as VOTE 2 BPS because it is formed on the same principle as VOTE 2 BPS with equivalently potent chakra. Which again indicates that it will be stronger than his PS since VOTE 2 BPS was stronger than PS.

And then there's the fact that you've yet to prove that Sasuke's chakra=Juubi's in power, and even if it did, Bijuu PS=Juubi+VoTE 2 Sasuke. Adult Sasuke equalling the Juubi doesn't prove that he can replicate something equal to BPS.

And that's exactly why I explained the mechanism of Sasuke's recreation of BPS. It's because of dumb replies like these.

@bold Okay, so now you're asking me to prove that Sasuke's chakra is equal to Juubi's chakra in power despite the fact that it is completely irrelevant to the discussion that whether Sasuke's BPS will be stronger than his PS. And if I would've answered that before, you'd cry about sticking to the topic like you're doing in every post without understanding the importance and relevance of that point.

Sasuke's chakra is equivalent, not equal (I've to simply the terms even further just to make you understand, how bothersome!) to Juubi's chakra in power. That's all that matters. This means Sasuke can achieve the same level of power, the exact magnitude might differ. But that's irrelevant when comparing his PS to BPS (I already explained the difference between their power levels). It's only required when determining how his VOTE 2 BPS compares to his current BPS. And if I come to that, you'll cry again about sticking to the topic (If you want, I can talk about that, it will be based on assumptions though).

@underlined I already explained how Sasuke could replicate the feat of BPS. That's the f***ing reason I mentioned the method of Sasuke's recreation of BPS, which is logically and factually true.

Baseless, and using more chakra to form Susanoo doesn't make it stronger. It's strength is based on chakra strength.

I've already explained the mechanism, so I don't want to talk on this further. Counter THAT if you want to turn this down. All I'll say is this is a different type of upgrade i.e. an upgrade which relies on increased quantity of chakra rather than increased quality. How? I've explained that above as well as in my previous post.

It explains nothing as it is completely inaccurate.

Of course it will feel inaccurate since you don't understand jack about what I'm saying. Plus, you're too confused to know what you want to know.

What in the...? :lol. 2 powers merged together=Either power by themselves. That goes for almost anything let alone chakra. And the underlined is false. Itachi's MS contains Itachi's chakra, which is =/= Sasuke's chakra.

Itachi's chakra <= Sasuke's chakra. That's a given since Sasuke's has Indra's chakra.

So merging a weaker chakra with a stronger chakra will not result in a chakra stronger than the stronger chakra. If anything, it would be weaker which also can't happen. So that implies that chakra potency won't change. It COULD change, but because of chakra maturing, not because of merging those chakras.

It's amazing how I'm still getting the same nonsense replies. The ONLY thing that Bijuu PS is, in terms of evolution, is an evolution of POWER. STRENGTH. Thus using V4, V3 and V2's advancements as evidence that Bijuu PS>PS is completely irrelevant and you never should've mentioned them to begin with.

Again, you're showing your class in stupidity and fail comprehension here, and posting stuff without even reading what I said.

Before stating that BPS is the same level of upgrade as V4, V3 etc, I specifically mentioned that I was only referring to the evolution in power level ONLY and DISREGARDING the evolution in body levels because it was irrelevant. And since I was disregarding the upgrades in body levels, I called BPS to be the same level of upgrade as V3, V4 etc because they're indeed the similar type of upgrades in power level. So when referring to power level ONLY, BPS can be considered to be the same level upgrade as V3, V4 etc.

You seem to be constantly dragging body level upgrade here despite it's dead-on irrelevance. YOU should have never mentioned this to being with. When did advancements in body level become so important in a discussion comparing their powers?

Refer to my previous post to see what I said. Also, the reply to the very first quote in this post sheds some light on this.

 

[KidGamer65]

So let me state the same thing as you and I did, again (because that seems to be the only way to get it through your head):
- Upgrade in body level naturally results in the upgrade in power level (That's why V3, V4 etc which are upgrades in body levels are stronger than their previous forms)
- But upgrade in power level can also occur without the upgrade in body level (PS to BPS)



Let me state it in another way, so you understand better.
Upgrade in power level can occur in two ways:
1. Through upgrade in body level (V3, V4 etc)
2. Without upgrade in body level (BPS)

Then this argument is over, because you are left with zero reason to believe Bijuu PS will get stronger.

Whether the chakra is new or old is irrelevant. You just need to have an equivalently powered chakra, which Sasuke HAS. I don't know from where you come up with senseless counters like these.

Wrong. It's high time you pulled your head out of your ass and start reading the Manga. Unless Sasuke's chakra gets stronger or he pushes Susanoo to a new type of Susanoo, (body level going by your annoying ass terms) there will be no strength increase.

Let me help you out with the inference. Again, for this I'll have to talk about Sasuke's mechanism of recreating BPS...

To create BPS at VOTE, Sasuke added Juubi's chakra to his PS (created with Six Paths chakra). To create it now, Sasuke will create PS similarly, and add an equivalent chakra to Juubi's chakra i.e. his own Six Paths chakra to that PS which will result in BPS. But since his own chakra is the source of it instead of the Juubi's chakra, Sasuke's chakra consumption will presumably be doubled due to more chakra being sucked out to fuel the BPS in that "Juubi chakra department". Susanoo doesn't care where the chakra comes from, all Susanoo wants to transform is Juubi's chakra whose equivalent Sasuke will provide.

Which is irrelevant because more chakra=/=Stronger chakra, thus there is no reason for it's power to increase. Him being able to transform it doesn't mean it'll get stronger. Get this through your head before you reply again.

This mechanism of recreation of BPS (which is logically true and completely inarguable logic-wise) clearly indicates that this BPS will be stronger than his PS, since it doubles the chakra consumption to add more power (increasing the chakra consumption will obviously add something i.e. power in this case). So this is a kind of upgrade which delivers more power in exchange for chakra quantity. Plus, it being a quantitative upgrade emphasizes the point that this is not a bodily upgrade, so it's more assuring.

The strength of Susanoo is determined by the power of the user's chakra. Point blank period. Amount will not increase his Susanoo's power. It will cause it to look like Bijuu PS, with his chakra in there except for the Bijuu Chakra.

Also, from the above mechanism, we can see that his BPS will be on the same power level (equivalent) as VOTE 2 BPS because it is formed on the same principle as VOTE 2 BPS with equivalently potent chakra. Which again indicates that it will be stronger than his PS since VOTE 2 BPS was stronger than PS.

Which is irrelevant to the point, because if it were to be as strong as his VoTE 2 Bijuu PS, it'd mean that his Adult PS=VoTE 2 Bijuu PS in those areas.

@bold Okay, so now you're asking me to prove that Sasuke's chakra is equal to Juubi's chakra in power despite the fact that it is completely irrelevant to the discussion that whether Sasuke's BPS will be stronger than his PS. And if I would've answered that before, you'd cry about sticking to the topic like you're doing in every post without understanding the importance and relevance of that point.

I'm just curious about this bullshit you like to spew from that garbage disposal you call a mouth.

Sasuke's chakra is equivalent, not equal (I've to simply the terms even further just to make you understand, how bothersome!) to Juubi's chakra in power. That's all that matters. This means Sasuke can achieve the same level of power, the exact magnitude might differ. But that's irrelevant when comparing his PS to BPS (I already explained the difference between their power levels). It's only required when determining how his VOTE 2 BPS compares to his current BPS. And if I come to that, you'll cry again about sticking to the topic (If you want, I can talk about that, it will be based on assumptions though).

Irrelevant. "CAN" attain=/="HAS" attained. You keep on repeating this retarded bullshit about it all being Rikudo's chakra, thus they have the potential to reach the same peak of power, even though:

1. You can't prove it, like half the shit in your posts.
2. You can't prove that Sasuke's chakra has even reached that point.

Jesus.

@underlined I already explained how Sasuke could replicate the feat of BPS. That's the f***ing reason I mentioned the method of Sasuke's recreation of BPS, which is logically and factually true.

Which has been addressed.

Itachi's chakra <= Sasuke's chakra. That's a given since Sasuke's has Indra's chakra.

So merging a weaker chakra with a stronger chakra will not result in a chakra stronger than the stronger chakra. If anything, it would be weaker which also can't happen. So that implies that chakra potency won't change. It COULD change, but because of chakra maturing, not because of merging those chakras.

Then I'm not going to waste time with an obviously wrong and irrelevant point.

Again, you're showing your class in stupidity and fail comprehension here, and posting stuff without even reading what I said.

Before stating that BPS is the same level of upgrade as V4, V3 etc, I specifically mentioned that I was only referring to the evolution in power level ONLY and DISREGARDING the evolution in body levels because it was irrelevant. And since I was disregarding the upgrades in body levels, I called BPS to be the same level of upgrade as V3, V4 etc because they're indeed the similar type of upgrades in power level. So when referring to power level ONLY, BPS can be considered to be the same level upgrade as V3, V4 etc.

You seem to be constantly dragging body level upgrade here despite it's dead-on irrelevance. YOU should have never mentioned this to being with. When did advancements in body level become so important in a discussion comparing their powers?

Jesus Christ. This is probably the biggest retard I've encountered in a while.

Stop mentioning evolution in POWER ****ING LEVEL YOU ****ING IDIOT. That does not prove that Bijuu PS gets stronger when the same person tries to use it without augmenting his power in any way, shape or form.

Is anyone else seeing how stupid this guy's argument is?

 

[senpaisama]

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