I'll read it after his reply so we don't get mixed up, I think we can keep going with the questions we have right now.
He has replied. You can proceed now.
So your saying Sasuke could create this Susano'o by just forming it with his regular chakra?
Not his regular chakra. But his Six Paths chakra.
That doesn't seem right to me. Is there any proof outside of that chakra similarity?
That's why I told you to read my reply to KG. It contained the details and proofs.
When Kurama got split, so did his power. Think of it similar to a shadow clone in essence.
@bold That's exactly what I was about to say (if you made any objections). And shadow clones do not divide in power compared to the original. All their physical stats and the power of their jutsus remain the same. A FRS created by singular Naruto = an FRS created by one of his 10 existing shadow clones. Only their chakra is divided by 10, so the amount of times they can create the FRS individually will be reduced by 10x.
Therefore, a split Kurama will have the same power with 1/2x the chakra.
I already had a debate regarding this with KG some time ago. You can have a look at it if you want. It will give you an idea. (Read from the start of the argument)
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That doesn't really make sense considering it was Half Kurama, and small amounts of the 8 Tailed Beasts.
I already explained the difference between full Kurama and half Kurama. When you absorb that, arguing on this topic will be easier and more effective.
It wasn't literal 8 Tailed Beasts inside of Naruto, it was the Jinchuriki of Kurama who held the chakra of other Tailed Beasts (minimally).
You're right, and I'm aware of that. But full Kurama can only match the quantity of chakra by half Kurama and 8 other bijuus. The quality will be inferior, as it will only equal half Kurama in the combination of all tailed beasts. The rest of the bijuus will provide the bump in quality after the merger.
So logically, a Sasuke with inferior quality chakra (Kurama's chakra) cannot produce the same Susanoo as a Sasuke with higher quality chakra (Juubi's chakra/9 tailed beasts combined chakra).
Logically, when Kurama returned back, as shown with the scan above. His power triumps over anything VoTE2 Naruto could do.
When Kurama returned back, Naruto's power remained the exact same with only the addition of the chakra reserves the other half of Kurama would provide. Prime Naruto is equal to VOTE 2 Naruto in power level, but superior to VOTE 2 Naruto in chakra (slightly matured and increased), physical attributes (slightly greater), skills (moderately increased) and Kurama's chakra (doubled).
Similar is the case with Sasuke. Prime Sasuke is equal to VOTE 2 Sasuke in power level, but superior to VOTE 2 Sasuke in chakra (considerably matured and increased), physical attributes (considerably greater), and skills (considerably increased).
Unless your saying Prime Naruto is weaker than VoTe2, then that means the current Sasuke as well is weaker (Naruto = Sasuke).
I never said anything about Prime Naruto being "weaker" than VOTE 2 Naruto.
And I'll throw your argument back at you. If you say Sasuke can't create Ultimate Susanoo on his own, then you're basically saying Sasuke's PS is equal to Naruto's 3 faced Kurama Avatar. Because Naruto = Sasuke, remember?
And just tell me one thing. If MS + Six Paths chakra = PS, then what is EMS + Six Paths chakra?
Not a chance in Hell! Writing this with my eyes half closed dam it! xd
LOL. Well, you can proceed now.
The Ultimate Susano'o didn't look like the Iso'Susano'o.
They both look the same. I mean look at the physical similarities between Iso and the fusion of Kurama and PS. It has the same formula of the humanoid look. I could just cut it off and show you what I'm talking about, but I think reading VoTE2 and looking at the pictures should be just as forward.
I don't have a clue of what you're trying to imply here... Do you mean VOTE 2 Susanoo and the movie Susanoo? Are they similar? Fusion of Kurama PS? Where did you get the fusion part? How is it similar to Iso? (There is no fusion. It is also Iso IMO). Which of the two Susanoos (Iso and fusion) resemble VOTE 2 Susanoo?
Yeah, it would be very helpful if you add the link to the images here (with your perspective of course). And please clear up stuff with proper explanation and comparison.
Aside from that, your argument is flawed for two reasons (which I've mentioned before):
1. You're trying to prove full Kurama's chakra quality equal to 9 bijuus combined chakra quality, which is explicitly wrong.
2. If Sasuke needs Kurama or bijuus to form Ultimate Susanoo, then it is not his own power. Which means PS = 3 faced Kurama Avatar (going by Naruto = Sasuke logic) which is also wrong.
He engulfs Kurama with his PS. Then there's the latter understanding of how Iso'Susano'o operates.
With Bijuu chakra. Each time Sauske used an Iso'Susano'o-like creation in the movie, Kurama was merged with him. Link.
In VoTE2 when Sasuke created the Susano itself, he had merged Bijuu chakra with his Susano'o. Link.
The latter doesn't sound convincing at all considering Sasuke has no actual feats of producing this Susano'o on his own without the help of a Bijuu.
I think all this has been addressed earlier, so I'll safely skip this.
No reason for it to change in those areas when Sasuke's chakra remains the same potency.
I've already mentioned the reason why it would change it that same post. Chakra potency isn't the only factor determining Susanoo's power level.
The bold is based on nothing.
What do you mean by "based on nothing"? It is derived from manga facts.
9 bijuus chakra combined = Juubi's chakra (Common sense)
Juubi's chakra = Six Paths Senjutsu chakra (Madara and Obito as Juubi Jins)
Six Paths Senjutsu chakra = Six Paths Yang chakra w/Senjutsu (Madara about Naruto)
Six Paths Yang chakra w/Senjutsu = Six Paths Yin chakra (Naruto and Sasuke clashes and fight with opponents)
Therefore, 9 bijuus chakra combined = Six Paths Yin chakra
That's Susanoo evolving from one form to the next.
That is evolution. But the previous forms can also be used later as dialed back forms from the same chakra and same dojutsu.
There is no form above Perfect Susanoo.
Ultimate Susanoo is.
Changing the shape of Perfect Susanoo=/=Changing the level of the Susanoo.
I know that. When did I say it did?
But that doesn't matter since Sasuke's eyes aren't going to change from when he uses PS, and then when he uses Bijuu Susanoo.
They can. Because Sasuke was using MS in Gaiden for PS.
But regardless of that, EMS is a higher form of MS, so it contains original MS powers as well. So even if his eyes don't change, he can create ribcage Susanoo all the way up to Perfect Susanoo depending upon power output. With the same chakra.
1. Yes.
2. Yes, because usually a higher dojutsu grants a stronger chakra.
3. Power output of the user? Yes.
@bold If that's the case, then all of Sasuke's jutsus should be powered up, which they weren't.
(I was only listing the factors of impact that made Susanoo reach this level as a whole)
1. Sasuke's chakra potency does not change.
True, but Sasuke's chakra potency has
already changed after Rikodou power-up. So it already allows "Susanoo greater than PS" at max with full EMS power access. And naturally, it also allows everything below it depending upon power output. So if it already allows "Susanoo greater than PS" at max, who cares if his chakra potency does not change NOW?
If we're comparing Pre-Rikodou power level to post-Rikodou power level, then chakra potency HAS CHANGED between that time.
Pre-Rikodou max power level: PS
Post-Rikodou max power level: Utimate Susanoo (chakra potency has changed after Rikodou power-up)
2. His Dojutsu does not change.
It changes (shown in Gaiden). And so what if it doesn't? EMS already allows Ultimate Susanoo at max with Six Paths chakra. And naturally, it allows everything below it depending upon power output. If MS with Six Paths chakra allows PS at max, then EMS with Six Paths chakra will obviously be greater at max i.e. Ultimate Susanoo.
And for side explanation, his EMS still allows all lower forms i.e. his original MS powers in addition to EMS enhancements. So it accesses corresponding power depending upon Sasuke's needs. Consider this just like gears and his dojutsu like a gearbox. Gears change with respect to speed requirements, but the gearbox remains same. (Oppositely) So even if the gearbox remains same, gears still change correspondingly.
3. His power output is irrelevant when he's already using the highest level of Susanoo.
If he's using his highest level of Susanoo, then power output is irrelevant. And his highest level of Susanoo with Six Paths chakra and EMS is Ultimate Susanoo.
Unless you're saying Six Paths chakra has no power increment effect on Susanoo's power. Which is lame.
That's the thing. Theories can be logical but without direct proof it's a theory in the end. The big bang makes a lot of sense but it's a theory as well. You cannot say it's a fact unless explicitly stated or with direct proof.
Both of which, you lack.
You're right, but... A conclusion derived from established facts is also a fact. #UniversalFact
You can't argue that. And I derived my conclusion from already established facts. Therefore, it is a fact, and not a theory.
Which established facts is the Big Bang derived from? None. It's based on research and hypothesis. So that's why it is just a theory. I'm not saying that everything which is derived is automatically a fact. And neither can you say that anything which is derived is automatically a theory.
