Kakuzu vs Hiruzen

MickNerks

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No as the clones sever his chakra, but since he's an edo it regenerates allowing him to then use the jutsu all on the same large scale whereas clones usually weaken the jutsu thus used .-.

That doesnt make any since. If that was the case then Minato would have never ran out of chakra as a edo, and the hokages wouldnt have had limits in making clones because after they made the clone their chakra would have automatically restored to normal.

Hell even Muu couldnt use Jinton after he split
 
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Draegod

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That doesnt make any since. If that was the case then Minato would have never ran out of chakra as a edo, and the hokages wouldnt have had limits in making clones because after they made the clone their chakra would have automatically restored to normal.

Hell even Muu couldnt use Jinton after he split

He doesnt get it bro.
 
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Curse Mark

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That doesnt make any since. If that was the case then Minato would have never ran out of chakra as a edo, and the hokages wouldnt have had limits in making clones because after they made the clone their chakra would have automatically restored to normal.

Hell even Muu couldnt use Jinton after he split

Muu is a great example.
 

Apêx1

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I think the big issue here is not Edo regeneration but power scaling. Hiruzen's Katon and Tobirama's Suiton were considered extremely high level when then Anbu saw them. Fast forward to Kage Summit and Darui was using the same Suiton that Tobirama used and he isn't even Suiton affinity nor is he a ninjutsu specialist. Fast forward to War Arc and most ninjutsu is at an insane level. I'd assume that Tobirama without P1 Edo restriction on strength + War Arc power scaling is beyond Hiruzen's Suiton power based on portrayal, but nobody will ever accept that because War Arc power-scaling is iffy. But depending on which arc the OP wants this to be the power-scaling could be in favour of Hiruzen or not. If it's Kakuzu arc then there's no reason to believe Hiruzen's Ninjutsu is beyond Kakuzu's given Kakuzu's is all affinity level just like Hiruzen's, we can't really know the level at which Hiruzen's ninjutsu power would be given his p1 feats are trash.
 

Curse Mark

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I think the big issue here is not Edo regeneration but power scaling. Hiruzen's Katon and Tobirama's Suiton were considered extremely high level when then Anbu saw them. Fast forward to Kage Summit and Darui was using the same Suiton that Tobirama used and he isn't even Suiton affinity nor is he a ninjutsu specialist. Fast forward to War Arc and most ninjutsu is at an insane level. I'd assume that Tobirama without P1 Edo restriction on strength + War Arc power scaling is beyond Hiruzen's Suiton power based on portrayal, but nobody will ever accept that because War Arc power-scaling is iffy. But depending on which arc the OP wants this to be the power-scaling could be in favour of Hiruzen or not. If it's Kakuzu arc then there's no reason to believe Hiruzen's Ninjutsu is beyond Kakuzu's given Kakuzu's is all affinity level just like Hiruzen's, we can't really know the level at which Hiruzen's ninjutsu power would be given his p1 feats are trash.

Darui does have suiton.. thats how he makes gale. Lightning and water.
 

LuckyMan

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I said "affinity".

Darui does have suiton.. thats how he makes gale. Lightning and water.

He meant it being an affinity, not that he has it in general but you are still correct. People with KKG are born with 2 affinities and can fuse them for new nature. Darui was born with Suiton and Raiton. Rare cases like Mu and Onoki are born with 3 and can use KKT.
 

Curse Mark

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You're both confusing me. What's the difference between affinities and having it in general?
 

LuckyMan

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You're both confusing me. What's the difference between affinities and having it in general?

Kakashi explained it during the training with Naruto for FRS.

Affinity is the nature your chakra takes liking to the most. You're born with it. Its easier learning to control/learn jutsu and chakra natures that matches your affinities.

Outside of your affinity, through training, its possible to master another nature, it'll just be harder to accomplish if that nature isn't your affinity.

Nature KKG are the fusing of 2 natures. You cannot do it unless the natures fusing are your affinities, something you need to be born with, normally that is.
 

Apêx1

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Oh damn, totally forgot that people can have more then one affinity. Still, it should have no effect on my overall point.
 

Draegod

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I think the big issue here is not Edo regeneration but power scaling. Hiruzen's Katon and Tobirama's Suiton were considered extremely high level when then Anbu saw them. Fast forward to Kage Summit and Darui was using the same Suiton that Tobirama used and he isn't even Suiton affinity nor is he a ninjutsu specialist. Fast forward to War Arc and most ninjutsu is at an insane level. I'd assume that Tobirama without P1 Edo restriction on strength + War Arc power scaling is beyond Hiruzen's Suiton power based on portrayal, but nobody will ever accept that because War Arc power-scaling is iffy. But depending on which arc the OP wants this to be the power-scaling could be in favour of Hiruzen or not. If it's Kakuzu arc then there's no reason to believe Hiruzen's Ninjutsu is beyond Kakuzu's given Kakuzu's is all affinity level just like Hiruzen's, we can't really know the level at which Hiruzen's ninjutsu power would be given his p1 feats are trash.


Severely incorrect bro! Hiruzen used two very high level jutsus that were correct for certain situations! Given his opponents and the limited small space his hire style was op ass fuq and literally can be controlled at will for tricky situations (only none Enton user that can control fire, not even madara has that luxury), his mud wall was thick and durable while only being minimal. Both Jutsu shown can be used greater and stronger but based on the limited space only what was needed was used. It's like pain having different scales and uses with Shinra tensei (small, big, gigantic).

Same with tobirama, using a perfect size water wall then shortly using water dragon in seconds (when even zabuza needed a whole to preform). It was simply gauging and doing what was presumed needed, but no where did it suggest limits were met. It is simply fans thinking such.


For example he at an old age used RDS 3 times no diff, that's a S rank Jutsu 3 times. Let alone one of the penacle jutsus shown and best sealing jutsus shown. Enma alone is retardedly heavy yet after warming up handled it no diff equally with oru a master swordsman (who taught sasuke btw).
 

Zexion~

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Severely incorrect bro! Hiruzen used two very high level jutsus that were correct for certain situations! Given his opponents and the limited small space his hire style was op ass fuq and literally can be controlled at will for tricky situations (only none Enton user that can control fire, not even madara has that luxury), his mud wall was thick and durable while only being minimal. Both Jutsu shown can be used greater and stronger but based on the limited space only what was needed was used. It's like pain having different scales and uses with Shinra tensei (small, big, gigantic).

Same with tobirama, using a perfect size water wall then shortly using water dragon in seconds (when even zabuza needed a whole to preform). It was simply gauging and doing what was presumed needed, but no where did it suggest limits were met. It is simply fans thinking such.


For example he at an old age used RDS 3 times no diff, that's a S rank Jutsu 3 times. Let alone one of the penacle jutsus shown and best sealing jutsus shown. Enma alone is retardedly heavy yet after warming up handled it no diff equally with oru a master swordsman (who taught sasuke btw).

RDS's consiquence is merely death, don't think its a raelly big stamina feat as it always ends in the same outcome :lol
 

Draegod

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RDS's consiquence is merely death, don't think its a raelly big stamina feat as it always ends in the same outcome :lol

Soooo using it three times wouldn't take chakra? Lol
 

Ghost in the Shell

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Butterfly Mode Hirudora GG.

Poor Fodderuzuzuzu fans. You guys can't admit that your fave is a hideous, watered down version of Sarutobi with zero swag and a tier 1 moron instead of a badass summon for a partner.
 
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Zexion~

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Soooo using it three times wouldn't take chakra? Lol

Not really, he used it on his deathbed its a sealing jutsu? Pretty sure they take a miniscule amount of chakra in the first place, although its not a stamina feat because you die anyways so for all we know even without it, he would have died via chakra exhaustion.
 

Draegod

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Not really, he used it on his deathbed its a sealing jutsu? Pretty sure they take a miniscule amount of chakra in the first place, although its not a stamina feat because you die anyways so for all we know even without it, he would have died via chakra exhaustion.

Lol an S rank sealing Jutsu takes little or no chakra yet kakashi using a weaker sealing Jutsu on sasuke takes a shit load of chakra that only elites can use (data book). Kool story..
 

Zexion~

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Lol an S rank sealing Jutsu takes little or no chakra yet kakashi using a weaker sealing Jutsu on sasuke takes a shit load of chakra that only elites can use (data book). Kool story..

When did it take a shit load of chakra? Pretty sure that was undoing a seal smh, two totally different things.

Seals we've seen

-5 pronged
-FTG
-RPDS
-Cursed Seal
-Scroll sealing

Probably a few others, now can you tell me that any of these took any stamina toll on the user when used? Smh
 

Draegod

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When did it take a shit load of chakra? Pretty sure that was undoing a seal smh, two totally different things.

Seals we've seen

-5 pronged
-FTG
-RPDS
-Cursed Seal
-Scroll sealing

Probably a few others, now can you tell me that any of these took any stamina toll on the user when used? Smh

I got you after work, will happily inform you!
 

Curse Mark

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When did it take a shit load of chakra? Pretty sure that was undoing a seal smh, two totally different things.

Seals we've seen

-5 pronged
-FTG
-RPDS
-Cursed Seal
-Scroll sealing

Probably a few others, now can you tell me that any of these took any stamina toll on the user when used? Smh

He didn't remove anything- he put that ring seal around the curse mark
 
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