[VS] Konan vs Tsunade

[Bogard]

Katsuyu would be blown apart like when manda tried to snack on her, leaving tsunade in the open

Yeah this too. Plus, Konan made it as such that she could even stop Tobi before any type of teleportation, so i don't even believe Tsunade would maneuver fast enough before being raped by the paper bombs if she tried the summoning meat shield method

 

[Curse Mark]

Yeah this too. Plus, Konan made it as such that she could even stop Tobi before any type of teleportation, so i don't even believe Tsunade would maneuver fast enough before being raped by the paper bombs if she tried the summoning meat shield method

Truth. I don't think she has the prep in this scenario for an ocean of paper bombs tho.

 

[Forbidden Technique]

Are you actually acting like she doesn't use hand seals here or did you miss it again? Top left panel in the green circle.

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I could be wrong here though, this might be an inconsistency. My knowledge on Tsunade's techs is not too extensive.

Oh, wtf. My bad, I have no idea how I continued to overlook that... didn't even catch it until I zoomed in smh. Lmao, I was gonna start flaming you too. It seems your right though, because she made the hand seal here too [

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] before releasing the seal. It could be an inconsistency, or she made the seal off panel back in part 1.

But I don't think you need to release it, in order to use it's chakra. Unless, for some odd reason, Sakura is a special case.

 

[Apêx1]

Oh, wtf. My bad, I have no idea how I continued to overlook that... didn't even catch it until I zoomed in smh. Lmao, I was gonna start flaming you too. It seems your right though, because she made the hand seal here too [

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] before releasing the seal. It could be an inconsistency, or she made the seal off panel back in part 1.

But I don't think you need to release it, in order to use it's chakra. Unless, for some odd reason, Sakura is a special case.

Lmaoo. Although I've been reading the DBIV about Tsunade's techs and it says using Genesis Rebirth and releasing the chakra of Byakugo gives greater overall potency and is the technique which Tsunade used versus Madara. So if Sakura only released her Byakugo seal but didn't use her Genesis Rebirth (which is what requires the hand seal) then her punch could even be stronger then what she showed versus the Juubi clones [she wouldn't have any healing]. Though either way, if Konan engulfs Tsunade in papers Tsunade can get the strength factor but she won't get the healing factor until she uses the hand seals for the tech.

So it all depends on who can do what first. But I'm going to argue that, even if Tsunade releases her Byakugo punch and scatters the papers (everywhere), then Konan can actually replace herself with a paper clone (Tsunade will think this is the real Konan when the blast goes away) and Konan will appear on the papers scattered behind Tsunade and use her paper disk from behind without Tsunade noticing anything. The clone keeps her distracted with talking or simply spams her with guided papers again which she can't avoid.

 

[Curse Mark]

Lmaoo. Although I've been reading the DBIV about Tsunade's techs and it says using Genesis Rebirth and releasing the chakra of Byakugo gives greater overall potency and is the technique which Tsunade used versus Madara. So if Sakura only released her Byakugo seal but didn't use her Genesis Rebirth (which is what requires the hand seal) then her punch could even be stronger then what she showed versus the Juubi clones [she wouldn't have any healing]. Though either way, if Konan engulfs Tsunade in papers Tsunade can get the strength factor but she won't get the healing factor until she uses the hand seals for the tech.

So it all depends on who can do what first. But I'm going to argue that, even if Tsunade releases her Byakugo punch and scatters the papers (everywhere), then Konan can actually replace herself with a paper clone (Tsunade will think this is the real Konan when the blast goes away) and Konan will appear on the papers scattered behind Tsunade and use her paper disk from behind without Tsunade noticing anything. The clone keeps her distracted with talking or simply spams her with guided papers again which she can't avoid.

if she uses it from behind her it bisects her spine and even if it can be healed, shes still paralized for at least a second. Konan leaves the weapon in tsunade's body wrapping her up and with the weapon lodged between her vertebrae, she cannot move and sufficates.

 

[RedRobin]

if she uses it from behind her it bisects her spine and even if it can be healed, shes still paralized for at least a second. Konan leaves the weapon in tsunade's body wrapping her up and with the weapon lodged between her vertebrae, she cannot move and sufficates.

Spoiler

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I literally dont know how many times I have to say Byakugo allows her to bypass injuries before people get it. Nothing is going to paralyze Tsunade.....

 

[Curse Mark]

Spoiler

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I literally dont know how many times I have to say Byakugo allows her to bypass injuries before people get it. Nothing is going to paralyze Tsunade.....

Fair enough. It seems to go through her spine in the first one. But that doesn't change Apex's argument.

 

[RedRobin]

Lmaoo. Although I've been reading the DBIV about Tsunade's techs and it says using Genesis Rebirth and releasing the chakra of Byakugo gives greater overall potency and is the technique which Tsunade used versus Madara. So if Sakura only released her Byakugo seal but didn't use her Genesis Rebirth (which is what requires the hand seal) then her punch could even be stronger then what she showed versus the Juubi clones [she wouldn't have any healing]. Though either way, if Konan engulfs Tsunade in papers Tsunade can get the strength factor but she won't get the healing factor until she uses the hand seals for the tech.

So it all depends on who can do what first. But I'm going to argue that, even if Tsunade releases her Byakugo punch and scatters the papers (everywhere), then Konan can actually replace herself with a paper clone (Tsunade will think this is the real Konan when the blast goes away) and Konan will appear on the papers scattered behind Tsunade and use her paper disk from behind without Tsunade noticing anything. The clone keeps her distracted with talking or simply spams her with guided papers again which she can't avoid.

Did you get another translation or are you using NFs? Just asking.

Sakura didnt release the seal against the juubi clones. She simply made the seal meaning she no longer had to siphon off chakra and could use her full base reserve. The punch against the juubi was a base Sakura punch.

Ninpō Sōzō Saisei — Byakugō no Jutsu is 2 different justu. Ninja art creation rebirth is the regeneration technique while Byakugo is the strength of a hundred part which comes from the strength of a hundred seal(Yin seal), that is 3 years of already molded chakra that flows all over the body which can also be transferred to someone(Sakura to Obito).

 

[RedRobin]

Fair enough. It seems to go through her spine in the first one. But that doesn't change Apex's argument.

I would say it goes through her spine in the second one aswell since there are 2 then.

 

[Apêx1]

Did you get another translation or are you using NFs? Just asking.

Sakura didnt release the seal against the juubi clones. She simply made the seal meaning she no longer had to siphon off chakra and could use her full base reserve. The punch against the juubi was a base Sakura punch.

Ninpō Sōzō Saisei — Byakugō no Jutsu is 2 different justu. Ninja art creation rebirth is the regeneration technique while Byakugo is the strength of a hundred part which comes from the strength of a hundred seal(Yin seal), that is 3 years of already molded chakra that flows all over the body which can also be transferred to someone(Sakura to Obito).

I pretty much scrolled through 40 pages of collection/translation threads and some of them were just given slight modifications on top of the ones Turrin made, by Hussain and Seelantu or however you spell his name.

The punch against the Juubi's clone was a Byakugo punch, she said she can now release her full power [

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]. Although that would just mean she was incapable of using it in conjunction with Genesis Rebirth at that particular moment, assuming the Genesis Rebirth combo makes it more potent as the DB translators suggested.

@DK, yea, once Tsunade's bisected, Konan can simply blind her and throw more disks at her face/hands/foot/etc.

 

[Curse Mark]

I would say it goes through her spine in the second one aswell since there are 2 then.

I'm not sure, it looks like they both diagonally go through her coming out the left and right sides of her back.

 

[RedRobin]

I pretty much scrolled through 40 pages of collection/translation threads and some of them were just given slight modifications on top of the ones Turrin made, by Hussain and Seelantu or however you spell his name.

The punch against the Juubi's clone was a Byakugo punch, she said she can now release her full power [

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]. Although that would just mean she was incapable of using it in conjunction with Genesis Rebirth at that particular moment, assuming the Genesis Rebirth combo makes it more potent as the DB translators suggested.

@DK, yea, once Tsunade's bisected, Konan can simply blind her and throw more disks at her face/hands/foot/etc.

I see.

She could release her full base power. Throughout the beginning of part 2 Sakura was not 100%, she was constantly putting chakra in her forehead to make the seal. By the time the war came she finally saved up enough chakra for the seal to be made and could finally use all her base reserves. 'I can release my full power' meaning she can finally use all her chakra. Plus the seal

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in a released state so she was not using the chakra from the seal.

 

[Icelerate]

1. I'm sure her paper projectiles do travel faster then Shino's bugs... I'm not going to dispute that. It's not the exact same thing, but Shino has shown to command insects by thousands simultaneously. Konan has not done so to my knowledge. And your comparison between Sasuke and Deidara with Konan and Jiraiya should not be made... It's not even slightly comparable. Two different attacks, different angles of attack, different distances; and Jiraiya and Deidara don't have identical speed, reaction, and mindset to counter in the same manner, etc. That's a horrible comparison. Okay... and assuming Tsunade get's engulfed by paper, she simply cuts her way out with chakra scalpel or summons Katsuyu. Lifting her off the ground accomplishes nothing. And I highly doubt the paper "multiplies", judging by how she manifested the paper chakram, and how it dissapeared after she got hit, it seems like she creates them individually with her chakra. In other words, she can't just send off a single piece of paper at someone, and boom there's hundreds of them out of nowhere.

Konan simultaneously controlled

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which she sent throughout the village to search for Jiraiya. She also managed to

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which would have required her to simultaneously move all that paper in two different directions. Then she went on to send and explode

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so you are wrong about Konan not having done this.

Deidara and base Jiraiya are on the same level of speed as per the databook and the speed feats they have. Also it is true that Deidara and Jiraiya didn't have the same mindset but that is actually a plus for Konan because

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right before Sasuke attacked whereas Jiraiya anticipated Konan was going to attack considering she was talking about

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. Though you are correct that unlike against paper projectiles coming at Jiraiya from above, Deidara can't simply jump out of the way like he did when Sasuke swung his sword.

Konan's projectiles are about as sharp as ordinary shuriken but end up piercing around

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despite them being

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so they have are much faster than kunais thrown ordinarily. Ordinary paper projectiles aren't even killing Tsunade anyway so it doesn't matter. At point blank range, Tsunade isn't evading Konan's paper tag bombs which from

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, were able to tag Obito before he could complete warping. They could blow off Tsunade's legs and arms which Tsunade can regenerate but it takes several seconds to do so, and in that time, Tsunade can't fight back, punch the ground, summon Katsuyu or move out of the way. If Katsuyu is already present, Konan will end up hovering above it with Tsunade in her grasp. Konan has shown that she can cause paper to get multiplied considering that she reformed herself in places where there was hardly any paper such as when she split into thousands of paper beetles and ended up reforming in a place with only two of them (

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)(

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). Afterwards, she

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so obviously they multiplied from that one airplane. When Konan splits into various pieces of paper, each and everyone one of them is herself, so if the real Konan can create additional paper from her body, this means that while split up, each of those pieces of paper have the ability to multiply into hundreds more. As for your paper chakram example, that is debunked by the fact that Konan was already low on chakra and couldn't properly maintain her paper form so that paper chakram disappearing means nothing.

2. Show me the scan where this occured please. Again... Why do you and Apex keep on insisting that after Tsunade get's engulfed with paper, she just sits and does absolutely nothing, and allows Konan the window to create the paper chakram..? I really don't understand this logic. She should very easily and quickly be capable of countering the paper during the process of being engulfed by smashing the ground, and also chakra scalping herself free in the scenerio that she does get completely engulfed. And then even if, she gets bisected, then she would simply summons Katsuyu to heal her, per cannon.... Like what is all this?

They pierce several centimetres into the ground

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. Well Tsunade can flail around cutting whatever she can, however, given the AoE of her chakra scalpel, it will be similar to using a scissor to cut through a bush or finding a needle in a haystack. Tsunade can punch the ground causing Konan to get sent flying upwards but after that, Konan will simply approach from directly above Tsunade so that if Tsunade punches the ground, the shockwave's impact right below Konan gets absorbed by Tsunade's body. Not to mention Konan can just turn into some aerodynamic object to allow the winds and such to fly right past her.

3. How does this eliminate the use of paper that hasn't been in contact with oil? Never did I say she was restricted to one directional attacks. You wanted to compare her manipulation of paper to Shinos insects and Gaaras sand - both of which, would of been used in a manner to immediately follow Jiraiyas direction, rather then just running straight into the ground, and giving Jiraiya that opening. Hence my point, her paper manipulation isn't that versatile. They have never shown to travel at full speed, then immediately change direction like the attacks you're trying to compare it to. And your counter example doesn't work, because Gaaras sand actually hit it's target.

Maybe because those paper projectiles might have been mere projectiles as opposed to having her consciousness inside them. How come you are talking about the Jiraiya scenario when I've already showcased plenty of scenarios where she controls her paper in a similar fashion to the other two? @bold: I'm pretty sure her paper

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. Yeah my counter example was a fail lol.

You're claiming that Konan can get her paper to penetrate into an opponents body, stops and controls their movement, then kills them from the inside. Of course I'm going to claim this is nothing but fan-fiction, there is nothing in the manga or databook that supports this. Furthermore, this is IC Konan, who never has shown to attempt anything even remotely close to something like this.

Edit: And to add to that, Gaara can control megatons of sand, which more then warrants his feat of stopping SM Madaras movements. That is not to say that Konan can somehow control people too, nevermind Tsunade. Assuming she can even accomplish this feat in the first place.

Well if Konan can restrain her opponent's limbs from the outside, shouldn't it be even easier to do so from the inside while constantly doing damage to their muscles to weaken them? I agree that Gaara's control over sand is stronger than Konan's paper by far but none of that is needed here. Konan can pierce into Tsunade's body and then reform herself inside thus causing Tsunade to get explode.

 

[Forbidden Technique]

Konan simultaneously controlled

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which she sent throughout the village to search for Jiraiya. She also managed to

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which would have required her to simultaneously move all that paper in two different directions. Then she went on to send and explode

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so you are wrong about Konan not having done this.

Deidara and base Jiraiya are on the same level of speed as per the databook and the speed feats they have. Also it is true that Deidara and Jiraiya didn't have the same mindset but that is actually a plus for Konan because

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right before Sasuke attacked whereas Jiraiya anticipated Konan was going to attack considering she was talking about

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. Though you are correct that unlike against paper projectiles coming at Jiraiya from above, Deidara can't simply jump out of the way like he did when Sasuke swung his sword.

Konan's projectiles are about as sharp as ordinary shuriken but end up piercing around

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despite them being

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so they have are much faster than kunais thrown ordinarily. Ordinary paper projectiles aren't even killing Tsunade anyway so it doesn't matter. At point blank range, Tsunade isn't evading Konan's paper tag bombs which from

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, were able to tag Obito before he could complete warping. They could blow off Tsunade's legs and arms which Tsunade can regenerate but it takes several seconds to do so, and in that time, Tsunade can't fight back, punch the ground, summon Katsuyu or move out of the way. If Katsuyu is already present, Konan will end up hovering above it with Tsunade in her grasp. Konan has shown that she can cause paper to get multiplied considering that she reformed herself in places where there was hardly any paper such as when she split into thousands of paper beetles and ended up reforming in a place with only two of them (

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)(

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). Afterwards, she

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so obviously they multiplied from that one airplane. When Konan splits into various pieces of paper, each and everyone one of them is herself, so if the real Konan can create additional paper from her body, this means that while split up, each of those pieces of paper have the ability to multiply into hundreds more. As for your paper chakram example, that is debunked by the fact that Konan was already low on chakra and couldn't properly maintain her paper form so that paper chakram disappearing means nothing.

They pierce several centimetres into the ground

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. Well Tsunade can flail around cutting whatever she can, however, given the AoE of her chakra scalpel, it will be similar to using a scissor to cut through a bush or finding a needle in a haystack. Tsunade can punch the ground causing Konan to get sent flying upwards but after that, Konan will simply approach from directly above Tsunade so that if Tsunade punches the ground, the shockwave's impact right below Konan gets absorbed by Tsunade's body. Not to mention Konan can just turn into some aerodynamic object to allow the winds and such to fly right past her.

Maybe because those paper projectiles might have been mere projectiles as opposed to having her consciousness inside them. How come you are talking about the Jiraiya scenario when I've already showcased plenty of scenarios where she controls her paper in a similar fashion to the other two? @bold: I'm pretty sure her paper

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. Yeah my counter example was a fail lol.

Well if Konan can restrain her opponent's limbs from the outside, shouldn't it be even easier to do so from the inside while constantly doing damage to their muscles to weaken them? I agree that Gaara's control over sand is stronger than Konan's paper by far but none of that is needed here. Konan can pierce into Tsunade's body and then reform herself inside thus causing Tsunade to get explode.

You know damn well I'm not going to rebuttal all that., smh.

 

[Curse Mark]

You know damn well I'm not going to rebuttal all that., smh.

Ill rep ya if you do try and rebut the whole thing.

 

[Icelerate]

You know damn well I'm not going to rebuttal all that., smh.

Take your time. One paragraph a day can get you a long way.

 

[RedRobin]

Well if Konan can restrain her opponent's limbs from the outside, shouldn't it be even easier to do so from the inside while constantly doing damage to their muscles to weaken them? I agree that Gaara's control over sand is stronger than Konan's paper by far but none of that is needed here. Konan can pierce into Tsunade's body and then reform herself inside thus causing Tsunade to get explode.

This is utter BS.

I dont care how strong her control over paper is, it is not going to overcome the strength a person has in moving their own body. Thats is simply ridiculous.

 

[Forbidden Technique]

Take your time. One paragraph a day can get you a long way.

I would have to read the entire thread so I can remember what I wrote, what I was even arguing, and why, before I could begin to rebuttal your post. No thank you. If I was still interested in discussing the topic, I would of replied to Apex' post and your VM a while ago.

 

[Got]

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[Curse Mark]

This is utter BS.

I dont care how strong her control over paper is, it is not going to overcome the strength a person has in moving their own body. Thats is simply ridiculous.

This is utter BS.

I dont care how strong Gaara's control over sand is, it is not going to overcome the strength a person has in moving their own body. Thats is simply ridiculous.