[VS] Konan vs Tsunade

[BenjerminGaye]

Katsuyu stops her from suffocating anyway. The gokage were inside her pieces for a very long time and did not suffocate meaning healing has the ability to create oxygen for cells.

But its hilarious how any of you think you are scientists when rapid regeneration in real life does not exist but of course you guys know exactly how it would work.

It does exist in real life. Just in small increments.

 

[BLAZE]

Has it been confirmed Konan produces 1000 paper per second?

no i m just saying it

u guys said she created and comouflaged 600 billion paper tag in 4 days meaning 1.736 million paper tag a second

 

[Apêx1]

Has it been confirmed Konan produces 1000 paper per second?

He's doing the math to reach the 600 billion in 4 days mark. According to my calculations she is manifesting 1,736,111 every second in order for her to have created 600 billion in 4 days. I'm not sure I'm willing to believe that, do you know how the guy who made the timeline got this 4 day number?

 

[Curse Mark]

He's doing the math to reach the 600 billion in 4 days mark. According to my calculations she is manifesting 1,736,111 every second in order for her to have created 600 billion in 4 days. I'm not sure I'm willing to believe that, do you know how the guy who made the timeline got this 4 day number?

Someone already said her paperbombs may have been self replicating like tobiramas.
And it's not exactly like shes writing them out by hand. I dont find the number that absurd.

 

[Apêx1]

Someone already said her paperbombs may have been self replicating like tobiramas.
And it's not exactly like shes writing them out by hand. I dont find the number that absurd.

True, they'd have to be self-replicating since there's no way she could find 600 billion paper tags anyways. Still, 1 million a second is like 1000 times beyond what Tobirama's is.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

He's doing the math to reach the 600 billion in 4 days mark. According to my calculations she is manifesting 1,736,111 every second in order for her to have created 600 billion in 4 days. I'm not sure I'm willing to believe that, do you know how the guy who made the timeline got this 4 day number?

Can someone direct me to a scan that shows she started making them after Pain died?

Cuz she flat out states she's been watching him for years to analyze kamui and ran countless simulations.

For all you know she had her tags sitting in escrow for years.

 

[Apêx1]

Can someone direct me to a scan that shows she started making them after Pain died?

Cuz she flat out states she's been watching him for years to analyze kamui and ran countless simulations.

For all you know she had her tags sitting in escrow for years.

Well I'm also waiting for the reasoning behind the 4 days, I'm just saying if that was the case it would be insane.

 

[Curse Mark]

Can someone direct me to a scan that shows she started making them after Pain died?

Cuz she flat out states she's been watching him for years to analyze kamui and ran countless simulations.

For all you know she had her tags sitting in escrow for years.

She never says anything about years.

 

[Icelerate]

Can someone direct me to a scan that shows she started making them after Pain died?

Cuz she flat out states she's been watching him for years to analyze kamui and ran countless simulations.

For all you know she had her tags sitting in escrow for years.

She's been watching him for years as she was in the Akatsuki with him but that doesn't mean she started preparing something totally out of the blue. Though the numbers argument doesn't matter because numbers in the manga are abstract. Qualitatively, we do know that Konan can produce two wings which contain more paper than her body within a few seconds at most (

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)(

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). After several minutes in a battle Konan can have enough paper to engulf a building if she continuously produces more and more.

 

[Zexion~]

Because she was a child who was just learning ninjutsu?
How many people do you know in Naruto who did not change at all from academy age until becoming above a jonin level?

Pretty sure Sasuke and Itachi's fireball techniques were = To their adult ones :lol

First off Jiraiya was sent flying. In this scenario, we are talking about Konan restraining Tsunade to prevent her from getting sent flying backwards when Konan attacks. Here is an analogy, I can't cut wood with a chainsaw if it is in midair as it will just get sent flying but when it is against solid ground, it becomes possible to cut it in half.

Terrible analogy, not to mention he was sent flying AFTER the kunai struck him. The wind were pushing the kunai so they hit first then the wind style did.

Although if you threw something sharp enough to fully pierce through wood at wood in the air, it would still pierce all the way through. So that was a terrible example Ice.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

She never says anything about years.

She watched him the entire time.
She was a founding member.
That's a decade, at the very least.

@Icelerate: so no scan then.

 

[Forbidden Technique]

Ok. Not sure how Katsuyu is comfortably avoiding any paper when the paper is 1000 times faster then Katsuyu. In the case you didn't know, Konan's paper flies at speed beyond KCM Naruto's running speed. Obito could teleport himself at point blank before Naruto could hit him, yet Konan's paper could hit Obito AFTER he had already initiated his attempt to teleport away. So her papers are immensely fast. And ok, but those aren't shockwaves so you should clarify or convey your point more clearly next time. And anyways, this is Tsunade's kick (without Byakugo), there's literally nothing that would blow away any paper (in any feat ever, and this one) [

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]. Btw, no, Tsunade does not start off with Byakugo activated. So again, once you can substantiate your claims you can start getting back to me. Until then you're simply trying to give Tsunade Sakura's massively superior feats, which isn't how it works. And anyways, Sakura committed to a huge leap for that punch, Konan's papers will be blown away for the first attack, but unless Tsunade keeps attacking the floor she won't be doing shit to the papers following the ones that were scattered from the blast.

I said Katsuyu allows Tsunade to avoid any paper... i.e. her massive body envoloping Tsunade, in addition to her acid shots. If by KCM Naruto's 'running speed', you mean his striking speed, then sure. I'd assume that the explosion of impact between CES and the ground would create a shockwave of some sort, but whatever. The link you posted was a testament of her natural strength only, not the addition of CES. Not only that, but it was a part 1 feat. She doesn't need to activate Byakugou to use CES, so I have no idea what you're even on about. When Sakura made that feat, Hashirama commented and said that might be worse then Tsunade, which only implies Tsunade is capable of doing that on a similar scale. That punch knocked out pretty much every mini Jubi clone that was caught in it's vicinity... It'll undoubtedly blow any and all paper far away (if not disintegrate them), along with Konan, and dealing her some damage. Tsunade wouldn't have to worry about any incoming attacks until after all the debris settles, and Konan recomposes herself.

That's nothing to do with quick reactions, stop denying the context of that scan. Madara had JUST talked about Hashirama's amazing healing powers. A moment later Tsunade activates Byakugo and shows superior healing powers, he was surprised by her healing powers obviously, because Tsunade cannot do shit if Madara chose for he not to do shit. Especially when v2 Ay admitted his speed isn't enough for Madara, I cannot possibly see how you could go on to claim that anything other then her healing is what surprised Madara. Anything else you are suggesting is baseless. "Quick executions" because you can gauge panel speed? Nah I'm good. And lol, wot? When did I ever suggest Konan's paper is restraining Tsunade? It simply sits above her hand so that she cannot see, smell, etc. Then Tsunade's hands get completely wrapped around with paper.The paper is not restraining the individual fingers to prevent movement, the paper is simply preventing the potential for individual use of the finger but still allowing movement of the fingers, hands, etc.
@bold, there's a few problems here.
1. Tsunade would also need to activate Byakugo while she's in the paper, which takes slight amounts of time and a seal

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. She won't be able to do that until she breaks out of the paper with chakra scalpel, frees her mouth/nose, etc. And ONLY then can she punch the ground with enough force to send paper flying. There's no way that Konan won't have already fired her attack by then and bisected Tsunade in half.
2. Summoning Katsuyu after she gets bisected? Tsunade could barely move and was pretty much asleep initially

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, by then she'd be wrapped around papers sending her to Punk Hazard. And no, she can't touch her body with her fingers to obtain blood while wrapped around with paper.

Are you even being serious right now @ bold..? So in your mind, Tsunade breaks the susano'o sword, plays with her tits off panel, removes the sword from her abdomin, fixes her hair off panel, then swings the sword at Madara right? Yeah... these were all slow executions, which definitely took around a couple of minutes to accomplish. Totally explains why the Gokage weren't shown to be surprised until

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it all went down. Please spare me with your ridiculousness. Tsunade showed extremely quick reaction and execution in that situation, regardless of what you want to laughably think or believe. And never did I even mention it was all done before Madara could react. It doesn't matter what you suggest, Konans paper engulfing someone acts like a restraint.

1. You couldn't possibly think you were going to get away with that. Neither of those scans were displaying the use of Byakugou and you know it. The first scan was Sakura using Katsuyu's remote healing, and the second one was Genesis Rebirth. Byakugou requires

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, no nothing [

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]-[

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]. Tsunade can activate Byakugou whenever she chooses, even while being engulfed in Konans paper. With extremely quick execution, she will easily accomplish all this.

2. So now we're going to compare her fight with Edo Madara to a fight with Konan now. She wasted a lot of chakra (healing and replenishing the Gokage, as well as healing and fighting Madara herself) and obviously took a lot more accumalative damage then simple clean bisection. Ordinary human beings can still be temporarily concious after bisection, and so would Tsunade. She will summon Katsuyu without much issue.

@your post to Ice, you're wrong. They have the hardness of steel but they are much faster then KCM Naruto's movement speed. That means if a Kunai is thrown at Tsunade it will pierce her and then stop due to lack of momentum and the loss of momentum after hitting her body. For Konan, that's not the case at all. They have much more momentum then a kunai, in addition to being controlled by Konan at ALL TIMES. That means even after it's made contact with Tsunade's body, Konan just needs to keep applying the same speed on the papers and thus they will keep going further and further into Tsunade's body. Of course, in a real scenario, they would cut through without stopping because they don't ever lose momentum as long as they have the necessary penetrative force. This should be a rather simple concept to understand.

They're not though, but the shuriken will just push Tsunade backwards as they did to Jiraiya, unless there is something holding Tsunade in place to aid the penetrative force of her paper shuriken. But then this is also assuming Tsunade sits and plays with her tits again while she's getting hit, much to your convenience.

Well that makes sense.

Okay I'll agree that they can't pierce cleanly/deeply into Tsunade and by the time they do, Tsunade would have regenerated from the initial slices so Konan can't simply cut Tsunade up. Nevertheless I still think she wins. Paper can still pierce into her skin and from their block her movements much like

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. Sure Gaara's control over sand is a lot stronger than Konan's control over paper but so is SM Hashirama enhanced Madara compared to Tsunade's strength. Coupled with an outer restraint like against the fodder and you have Tsunade completely restrained. Then to prevent Katsuyu from interfering, Konan can fly away above Katsuyu's elevation where Konan can then continuously cut Tsunade's vitals. 20 paper bombs are also blowing Tsunade's limbs off considering their impact would be much stronger than what Obito felt because Obito had absorbed most of the explosion (

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). Tsunade will quickly succumb to Konan's flurry of attacks much worse than her temporarily collapsing after getting impaled by two susanoo swords (

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). You have to keep in mind that Konan can cause paper to multiply so all this paper would fill up the wounded areas thus preventing regeneration. Sooner than later Tsunade dies due to regeneration not working and the damage piling up.

First of all it shouldn't be easy for Konan to land her paper on Byakugou activated Tsunade, who should be faster then Jiraiya, who cannonically avoided Konans attacks. That and the fact that Tsunade should be able to blow them away, along with Konan, by striking the ground. So it's not going to be that easy. Two, I have no reason to believe that Konans paper carry this much penetrative force. Ordinary shuriken certainly do not, so when Konans paper make contact with Tsunades body, it'll cut her skin, but that's about it. Eventually, it'll just push her backwards rather then completley piercing through her body (Byakugou would instantly be resealing her wounds); allowing Tsunade to pick them off one by one, and destroying them. Third, Konan has never displayed such versatility with controlling her paper as Gaara has with his sand. Instead of changing the trajectory of her proctiles to follow Jiraiya, it ran into the ground, and was never used again [

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]. Way too much fan fiction here.

 

[Apêx1]

I said Katsuyu allows Tsunade to avoid any paper... i.e. her massive body envoloping Tsunade, in addition to her acid shots. If by KCM Naruto's 'running speed', you mean his striking speed, then sure. I'd assume that the explosion of impact between CES and the ground would create a shockwave of some sort, but whatever. The link you posted was a testament of her natural strength only, not the addition of CES. Not only that, but it was a part 1 feat. She doesn't need to activate Byakugou to use CES, so I have no idea what you're even on about. When Sakura made that feat, Hashirama commented and said that might be worse then Tsunade, which only implies Tsunade is capable of doing that on a similar scale. That punch knocked out pretty much every mini Jubi clone that was caught in it's vicinity... It'll undoubtedly blow any and all paper far away (if not disintegrate them), along with Konan, and dealing her some damage. Tsunade wouldn't have to worry about any incoming attacks until after all the debris settles, and Konan recomposes herself.

Alright, didn't understand what you meant by avoid. But that would work assuming Katsuyu was to be present, which she won't be. And what? That was running speed, nothing whatsoever indicated Naruto stopping his running, thus it's actually his attack speed amplified by his running speed [

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]. You can only take out running speed from the equation if Naruto stopped running before he threw his attack. And lol, you clearly are oblivious to the 4th databook's statements about Tsunade. I would obviously not even be arguing this if those feats were non-CeS because Tsunade would shit. But they are since the DB said;
"Her innate talent for it allows her to gather her chakra from any part of her body with such precision and perform any technique to their maximum potential without any wasted chakra or timing. Her signature ability with chakra control is to instinctively amplify her already legendary strength with chakra control to monstrous levels, allowing her to perform feats like causing gigantic craters with a simple punch or kick to the ground, launch Gamabunta's tantō into the air and then guide it down right into Manda's mouth, and she easily shattered Madara Uchiha Susanoo's ribcage"

Thus all her good feats, even carrying Bunta's size, are chakra enhanced. Anything else you said there is irrelevant because of your ignorance regarding Tsunade's "natural strength". And I never claimed she needs Byakugo for CES, I claimed she needs Byakugo for a sufficient CES given non-Byakugo CES will not scatter a single paper's presence.

Are you even being serious right now @ bold..? So in your mind, Tsunade breaks the susano'o sword, plays with her tits off panel, removes the sword from her abdomin, fixes her hair off panel, then swings the sword at Madara right? Yeah... these were all slow executions, which definitely took around a couple of minutes to accomplish. Totally explains why the Gokage weren't shown to be surprised until

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it all went down. Please spare me with your ridiculousness. Tsunade showed extremely quick reaction and execution in that situation, regardless of what you want to laughably think or believe. And never did I even mention it was all done before Madara could react. It doesn't matter what you suggest, Konans paper engulfing someone acts like a restraint.

What the hell? All ninja's are fast, her fast execution means jack shit. Unless you can actually quantify the fast execution there's literally no argument on your side. You can't just say fast execution because it happened in a small amount of panels. Did she do all this quickly? Sure. Does that mean it's an amazing feat because she did it 'quickly'? No, because there's literally no 3rd party to compare it to. Your argument is the equivalent of "I saw somebody move a large distance in 2 panels and thus he's extremely fast" even though this is completely unquantifiable. It could be decent fast all the way to extremely fast, but making the assumption that it's extremely fast is completely unwarranted. The Gokage's weren't shown being surprised means something now? Lmfaoooooo. I guess the Gokage couldn't even see her speed then, and could only show surprise after they realised Tsunade had moved at speed of light. @bold, okay, but then by your definition of a restraint, this is not a restraint which can be "overpowered" so your argument is still completely moot.

1. You couldn't possibly think you were going to get away with that. Neither of those scans were displaying the use of Byakugou and you know it. The first scan was Sakura using Katsuyu's remote healing, and the second one was Genesis Rebirth. Byakugou requires

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, no nothing [

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]-[

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]. Tsunade can activate Byakugou whenever she chooses, even while being engulfed in Konans paper. With extremely quick execution, she will easily accomplish all this.

You must have forgotten your glasses. Maybe I'll post it in a spoiler (THAT WAS IN YOUR LINKS) so that it's easier for you to see

Spoiler

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.
Thus she cannot do what you are saying at all.

2. So now we're going to compare her fight with Edo Madara to a fight with Konan now. She wasted a lot of chakra (healing and replenishing the Gokage, as well as healing and fighting Madara herself) and obviously took a lot more accumalative damage then simple clean bisection. Ordinary human beings can still be temporarily concious after bisection, and so would Tsunade. She will summon Katsuyu without much issue.

What? Accumulative damage means jack compared to being bisected and having your veins, legs, spine, organs crushed completely for as long as you aren't one piece. Accumulative damage is only relevant against non-healers. Against Tsunade accumulative damage means nothing because it does not accumulate, but rather diminishes.

They're not though, but the shuriken will just push Tsunade backwards as they did to Jiraiya, unless there is something holding Tsunade in place to aid the penetrative force of her paper shuriken. But then this is also assuming Tsunade sits and plays with her tits again while she's getting hit, much to your convenience.

That was a child Konan, and those were Shurikens which I am not arguing will win this. I am saying her circular disk will bisect Tsunade. And too bad Tsunade won't even be able to play with her tits while covered in paper, blinded and being cut in half.

First of all it shouldn't be easy for Konan to land her paper on Byakugou activated Tsunade, who should be faster then Jiraiya, who cannonically avoided Konans attacks. That and the fact that Tsunade should be able to blow them away, along with Konan, by striking the ground. So it's not going to be that easy. Two, I have no reason to believe that Konans paper carry this much penetrative force. Ordinary shuriken certainly do not, so when Konans paper make contact with Tsunades body, it'll cut her skin, but that's about it. Eventually, it'll just push her backwards rather then completley piercing through her body (Byakugou would instantly be resealing her wounds); allowing Tsunade to pick them off one by one, and destroying them. Third, Konan has never displayed such versatility with controlling her paper as Gaara has with his sand. Instead of changing the trajectory of her proctiles to follow Jiraiya, it ran into the ground, and was never used again [

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]. Way too much fan fiction here.

Too bad this isn't Byakugo activated Tsunade. And those were not guided attacks, unfortunately. And again, I never claimed Konan's shurikens can cut right through Tsunade. And also, since Konan can control the papers around Tsunade, she can actually prevent the backwards movement of Tsunade's body since she has already made Nagato's dead body fly around while engulfed with paper. @bold they can be controlled remotely by Konan unless she's launching them as projectiles. But nobody ever said she's launching them as projectiles, I'm saying she's having those large amounts of papers follow Tsunade, engulf her and then hold her in her place (but still allow Tsunade's arms/legs freedom of movement despite being airborne). Thus when Konan throws her disk Tsunade will be bisected in half given the speed at which her paper travels.

 

[Lord Tywin]

Holy shit those are some long walls

 

[Apêx1]

Holy shit those are some long walls

It's actually pretty small. The large number of quotations makes it look much larger then it actually is.

 

[Curse Mark]

She watched him the entire time.
She was a founding member.
That's a decade, at the very least.

@Icelerate: so no scan then.

When did she say she watched him the entire time?

Alright, didn't understand what you meant by avoid. But that would work assuming Katsuyu was to be present, which she won't be. And what? That was running speed, nothing whatsoever indicated Naruto stopping his running, thus it's actually his attack speed amplified by his running speed [

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]. You can only take out running speed from the equation if Naruto stopped running before he threw his attack. And lol, you clearly are oblivious to the 4th databook's statements about Tsunade. I would obviously not even be arguing this if those feats were non-CeS because Tsunade would shit. But they are since the DB said;
"Her innate talent for it allows her to gather her chakra from any part of her body with such precision and perform any technique to their maximum potential without any wasted chakra or timing. Her signature ability with chakra control is to instinctively amplify her already legendary strength with chakra control to monstrous levels, allowing her to perform feats like causing gigantic craters with a simple punch or kick to the ground, launch Gamabunta's tantō into the air and then guide it down right into Manda's mouth, and she easily shattered Madara Uchiha Susanoo's ribcage"

Thus all her good feats, even carrying Bunta's size, are chakra enhanced. Anything else you said there is irrelevant because of your ignorance regarding Tsunade's "natural strength". And I never claimed she needs Byakugo for CES, I claimed she needs Byakugo for a sufficient CES given non-Byakugo CES will not scatter a single paper's presence.




What the hell? All ninja's are fast, her fast execution means jack shit. Unless you can actually quantify the fast execution there's literally no argument on your side. You can't just say fast execution because it happened in a small amount of panels. Did she do all this quickly? Sure. Does that mean it's an amazing feat because she did it 'quickly'? No, because there's literally no 3rd party to compare it to. Your argument is the equivalent of "I saw somebody move a large distance in 2 panels and thus he's extremely fast" even though this is completely unquantifiable. It could be decent fast all the way to extremely fast, but making the assumption that it's extremely fast is completely unwarranted. The Gokage's weren't shown being surprised means something now? Lmfaoooooo. I guess the Gokage couldn't even see her speed then, and could only show surprise after they realised Tsunade had moved at speed of light. @bold, okay, but then by your definition of a restraint, this is not a restraint which can be "overpowered" so your argument is still completely moot.



You must have forgotten your glasses. Maybe I'll post it in a spoiler (THAT WAS IN YOUR LINKS) so that it's easier for you to see

Spoiler

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.
Thus she cannot do what you are saying at all.



What? Accumulative damage means jack compared to being bisected and having your veins, legs, spine, organs crushed completely for as long as you aren't one piece. Accumulative damage is only relevant against non-healers. Against Tsunade accumulative damage means nothing because it does not accumulate, but rather diminishes.



That was a child Konan, and those were Shurikens which I am not arguing will win this. I am saying her circular disk will bisect Tsunade. And too bad Tsunade won't even be able to play with her tits while covered in paper, blinded and being cut in half.



Too bad this isn't Byakugo activated Tsunade. And those were not guided attacks, unfortunately. And again, I never claimed Konan's shurikens can cut right through Tsunade. And also, since Konan can control the papers around Tsunade, she can actually prevent the backwards movement of Tsunade's body since she has already made Nagato's dead body fly around while engulfed with paper. @bold they can be controlled remotely by Konan unless she's launching them as projectiles. But nobody ever said she's launching them as projectiles, I'm saying she's having those large amounts of papers follow Tsunade, engulf her and then hold her in her place (but still allow Tsunade's arms/legs freedom of movement despite being airborne). Thus when Konan throws her disk Tsunade will be bisected in half given the speed at which her paper travels.

I believe he's confused.
It takes handsigns to open the seal.
However after opened, the wounds heal automatically.

 

[Apêx1]

When did she say she watched him the entire time?




I believe he's confused.
It takes handsigns to open the seal.
However after opened, the wounds heal automatically.

He's not. He's saying Tsunade can activate Byakugo while engulfed by the paper.

 

[Curse Mark]

He's not. He's saying Tsunade can activate Byakugo while engulfed by the paper.

What about when sakura used it? handsigns?

 

[BenjerminGaye]

When did she say she watched him the entire time?




I believe he's confused.
It takes handsigns to open the seal.
However after opened, the wounds heal automatically.

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I swear you always come at me with some trivial ish.

 

[Curse Mark]

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I swear you always come at me with some trivial ish.

All im saying is all that time doesn't actually refer to an amount of time. you're just assuming what she meant.