[VS] Konan vs Tsunade

[Curse Mark]

.

just the username is enough.

 

[Forbidden Technique]

Hasn't it been determined Tsunade doesn't use CES and uses raw strength?

Pretty sure she has immense natural strength and uses CES. So a combination of both, if i'm not mistaken.

 

[Curse Mark]

Pretty sure she has immense natural strength and uses CES. So a combination of both, if i'm not mistaken.

I think you might be correct. I remember it being argued on her she doesn't use CES but i checked the wiki and it said exactly what you said.

 

[Apêx1]

Doesn't matter now since you admitted that explosive tags isn't taking Tsunade down. And no, Obito's arms must be the most vulnerable part of his body. The explosion took off a piece of his mask, half of his Akatsuki robe, and his entire arm... but everything else was fine and intact. Just like

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, among his entire body, it was only his arm that took most of the damage, despite it never even being directly hit. Thus, I'll conclude once again, that his Zetsu arms are the frailest parts of his body. Also, Konan didn't tank anything. If you look at the amont of existing paper before Jiraiya used his Katon [

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] and compare it to the non-existent amount of paper after [

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], then you can conclude that she used the paper to counter/block the Katon from hitting her (which I believe is what occured in the anime as well). There is no way she tanked the Katon using her own body.

How does that mean anything dude? His arm tanked Suigetsu's sword, PERIOD. Hachibi lost some of his tails from his TBB but others were just fine

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, doesn't mean that his left tail is any more durable then his right tail. Obito lost his arm because it was in the centre of the explosion. Obito lost the top right of is mask but the top left of his mask was just fine, doesn't mean anything durability wise. And even then, if the rest of his body is more durable then his arm that just means his durability is insane. There's nothing you can do to deny the fact that he's already tanked Suigetsu's sword with his arm. Further proof of that is that his own body didn't seem damaged from Minato's rasengan, but his arm was damaged. Most people get one shotted by a weaker Rasengan, so Obito surviving that just means his own body is tremendously durable. Sure, it could be more durable then his Zetsu arm. But this debate concerns Tsunade's, and not Obito's durability; meaning she doesn't get his durability feats. But I'll agree with you that she did not tank Jiraiya's Katon, and instead used her papers as a shield.

I asked for DB scans that would back up your claims that Konans paper attacks are capable of cutting deeply into Tsunade, and even bisecting her. Anyways, her counters to all of that is easy.

A)She could summon Katsuyu
B)Rely on the shockwaves caused by her CES to blow the paper away

1. Katsuyu's relevance is not that great given Konan can just stay air borne.
2. Her CES shockwaves? Which ones? I'd like some scans man. I'm pretty sure she's never released a shockwave, ever. And even if she has, that only counters the papers in front of her, not the ones behind her.

Assuming she somehow allows herself to get engulfed by paper in a similar fashion to the scans you posted, then she simply cuts herself out with chakra scalpel. Tsunade doesn't need to be able to freely function her fingers individually... She overpowers Konans restraints with her immense strength, and uses chakra scalpel to gradually cut herself free. If you want to argue that Konan simply would apply more paper as Tsunade attempts to free herself, then revisit A and B. Again, Tsunade cannonically survived being bisected, and recovered from it. That isn't an issue, as long as she can summon Katsuyu.

Again, stop making the assumption that Konan watches her suffocate. Konan has SO many options during this time. Tsunade is blinded and suffocating. Do you really expect Konan to just watch? As I said before, she can fire the disk of paper which can cut Tsunade deeply, or even bisect her. And again, she can't overpower paper that's just 'lying' on her skin, that makes no sense. Chakra scalpel could work, but that's assuming Konan is watching her. And although it does prevent her from suffocating, it does not prevent Konan from simply reattaching new papers to her nose and mouth, in which case Tsunade will need to keep freeing herself. All the while she's getting cut deeply by Konan's paper disk projectile. Tsunade only survived because nothing was done to her body post bisection. Konan would only need to engulf her body with paper and send them to different countries.

 

[Icelerate]

I asked for DB scans that would back up your claims that Konans paper attacks are capable of cutting deeply into Tsunade, and even bisecting her. Anyways, her counters to all of that is easy.

You are of the opinion that Itachi can

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. Yet think Konan can't cut deeply into a restricted Tsunade after any resistance to getting sent backwards by Konan's attacks gets nullified?

Paper Shuriken (紙手裏剣, Kami Shuriken)

Spoiler

Ninjutsu, D-rank, Offensive, Mid- to long range (5+m)
User: Konan

Scraps of paper, sharpened with chakra become sky-splitting blades!!

A technique that consists of pouring one's chakra into a scrap of paper in a split second, hardening and sharpening it, so it can be used as a shuriken. Its sharpness is equal to that of a shuriken made of metal. The user can further increase the power of the shuriken by making it into certain shapes.

[picture of Konan drawing her Paper Shuriken]
→It's an emergency measure for when one's ninja tools have ran out, but if used by an expert, it becomes a powerful weapon!!

[picture of Konan throwing her Paper Shuriken]
←The accumulation of time and effort put into the paper raises the sharpness to the utmost limits.

These are just paper shuriken but a paper chakram should be far superior due to using a lot more paper. It's not just the force she physically hits Tsunade with it but also the additional force of the chakram through Konan's ability to manipulate paper with chakra.

 

[Forbidden Technique]

How does that mean anything dude? His arm tanked Suigetsu's sword, PERIOD. Hachibi lost some of his tails from his TBB but others were just fine

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, doesn't mean that his left tail is any more durable then his right tail. Obito lost his arm because it was in the centre of the explosion. Obito lost the top right of is mask but the top left of his mask was just fine, doesn't mean anything durability wise. And even then, if the rest of his body is more durable then his arm that just means his durability is insane. There's nothing you can do to deny the fact that he's already tanked Suigetsu's sword with his arm. Further proof of that is that his own body didn't seem damaged from Minato's rasengan, but his arm was damaged. Most people get one shotted by a weaker Rasengan, so Obito surviving that just means his own body is tremendously durable. Sure, it could be more durable then his Zetsu arm. But this debate concerns Tsunade's, and not Obito's durability; meaning she doesn't get his durability feats. But I'll agree with you that she did not tank Jiraiya's Katon, and instead used her papers as a shield.

Nope, the Hachibi's tail was cut prior to the TBB [

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]. You basically just reiterated what I said with the bold, anyways. This whole discussion is pointless, as you already stated that explosive tags aren't taking down Tsunade.

1. Katsuyu's relevance is not that great given Konan can just stay air borne.
2. Her CES shockwaves? Which ones? I'd like some scans man. I'm pretty sure she's never released a shockwave, ever. And even if she has, that only counters the papers in front of her, not the ones behind her.

Katsuyu allows Tsunade to comfortably avoid any and all paper, and ultimately contributes to outlasting Konan. And I meant Tsunade can do something like

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. Doesn't need to be on the same exact scale. That'll undoubtedly blow all the paper projectiles away, along with Konan, and causing her some damage.

Again, stop making the assumption that Konan watches her suffocate. Konan has SO many options during this time. Tsunade is blinded and suffocating. Do you really expect Konan to just watch? As I said before, she can fire the disk of paper which can cut Tsunade deeply, or even bisect her. And again, she can't overpower paper that's just 'lying' on her skin, that makes no sense. Chakra scalpel could work, but that's assuming Konan is watching her. And although it does prevent her from suffocating, it does not prevent Konan from simply reattaching new papers to her nose and mouth, in which case Tsunade will need to keep freeing herself. All the while she's getting cut deeply by Konan's paper disk projectile. Tsunade only survived because nothing was done to her body post bisection. Konan would only need to engulf her body with paper and send them to different countries.

Again, stop assuming that Tsunade sits their defenseless like the fodders, and watches while Konan attempts to engulf her. She has shown quick reaction; breaking off a susano'o sword that she was impailed through the abdomin with, force it out of her body, and swinging it right back at Madara before he even did anything [

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]. Those are extremely quick executions. Tsunade should be more then capable of instantly understanding the situation, and reacting accordingly. And what? The paper acts as a restraint. Thus, you can overpower it. Also, that disk you keep referencing, takes some time to manifest. Tsunade chakra scalpels herself free, and punches the ground to send everything flying. Or, in the extremely unlikely scenerio that she get's bisected, she simply immediately summons Katsuyu to envelope and heal her. You haven't presented anything that Tsunade can't endure, and overcome.

You are of the opinion that Itachi can

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. Yet think Konan can't cut deeply into a restricted Tsunade after any resistance to getting sent backwards by Konan's attacks gets nullified?

Paper Shuriken (紙手裏剣, Kami Shuriken)

Spoiler

Ninjutsu, D-rank, Offensive, Mid- to long range (5+m)
User: Konan

Scraps of paper, sharpened with chakra become sky-splitting blades!!

A technique that consists of pouring one's chakra into a scrap of paper in a split second, hardening and sharpening it, so it can be used as a shuriken. Its sharpness is equal to that of a shuriken made of metal. The user can further increase the power of the shuriken by making it into certain shapes.

[picture of Konan drawing her Paper Shuriken]
→It's an emergency measure for when one's ninja tools have ran out, but if used by an expert, it becomes a powerful weapon!!

[picture of Konan throwing her Paper Shuriken]
←The accumulation of time and effort put into the paper raises the sharpness to the utmost limits.

These are just paper shuriken but a paper chakram should be far superior due to using a lot more paper. It's not just the force she physically hits Tsunade with it but also the additional force of the chakram through Konan's ability to manipulate paper with chakra.

Pretty sure I liked that comment based on the Bee point that was made. I don't recall ever stating that a simple Kunai can easily take down Tsunade. You liked my previous post on why I think Tsunade wins, yet it seems that you're still on Konans side.

And as I thought, those paper shuriken are inadequate. They aren't cutting deep into Tsunade, considering they didn't show any real penetrative power [

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]. Highly doubt that paper chakram is bisecting her as well, certainly not cleenly (doesn't make a difference either way).

 

[Curse Mark]

You are of the opinion that Itachi can

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. Yet think Konan can't cut deeply into a restricted Tsunade after any resistance to getting sent backwards by Konan's attacks gets nullified?

Paper Shuriken (紙手裏剣, Kami Shuriken)

Spoiler

Ninjutsu, D-rank, Offensive, Mid- to long range (5+m)
User: Konan

Scraps of paper, sharpened with chakra become sky-splitting blades!!

A technique that consists of pouring one's chakra into a scrap of paper in a split second, hardening and sharpening it, so it can be used as a shuriken. Its sharpness is equal to that of a shuriken made of metal. The user can further increase the power of the shuriken by making it into certain shapes.

[picture of Konan drawing her Paper Shuriken]
→It's an emergency measure for when one's ninja tools have ran out, but if used by an expert, it becomes a powerful weapon!!

[picture of Konan throwing her Paper Shuriken]
←The accumulation of time and effort put into the paper raises the sharpness to the utmost limits.

These are just paper shuriken but a paper chakram should be far superior due to using a lot more paper. It's not just the force she physically hits Tsunade with it but also the additional force of the chakram through Konan's ability to manipulate paper with chakra.

Konan can guide the paper so if she throws it at max force and makes it fly forwards, it'd increase the speed.

And as I thought, those paper shuriken are inadequate. They aren't cutting deep into Tsunade, considering they didn't show any real penetrative power [

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]. Highly doubt that paper chakram is bisecting her as well, certainly not cleenly (doesn't make a difference either way).

In the scan those are paper airplanes. Anyways, you can see the marks where they penetrated the steel.

 

[Apêx1]

Nope, the Hachibi's tail was cut prior to the TBB [

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]. You basically just reiterated what I said with the bold, anyways. This whole discussion is pointless, as you already stated that explosive tags aren't taking down Tsunade.

Katsuyu allows Tsunade to comfortably avoid any and all paper, and ultimately contributes to outlasting Konan. And I meant Tsunade can do something like

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. Doesn't need to be on the same exact scale. That'll undoubtedly blow all the paper projectiles away, along with Konan, and causing her some damage.

Ok. Not sure how Katsuyu is comfortably avoiding any paper when the paper is 1000 times faster then Katsuyu. In the case you didn't know, Konan's paper flies at speed beyond KCM Naruto's running speed. Obito could teleport himself at point blank before Naruto could hit him, yet Konan's paper could hit Obito AFTER he had already initiated his attempt to teleport away. So her papers are immensely fast. And ok, but those aren't shockwaves so you should clarify or convey your point more clearly next time. And anyways, this is Tsunade's kick (without Byakugo), there's literally nothing that would blow away any paper (in any feat ever, and this one) [

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]. Btw, no, Tsunade does not start off with Byakugo activated. So again, once you can substantiate your claims you can start getting back to me. Until then you're simply trying to give Tsunade Sakura's massively superior feats, which isn't how it works. And anyways, Sakura committed to a huge leap for that punch, Konan's papers will be blown away for the first attack, but unless Tsunade keeps attacking the floor she won't be doing shit to the papers following the ones that were scattered from the blast.

Again, stop assuming that Tsunade sits their defenseless like the fodders, and watches while Konan attempts to engulf her. She has shown quick reaction; breaking off a susano'o sword that she was impailed through the abdomin with, force it out of her body, and swinging it right back at Madara before he even did anything [

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]. Those are extremely quick executions. Tsunade should be more then capable of instantly understanding the situation, and reacting accordingly. And what? The paper acts as a restraint. Thus, you can overpower it. Also, that disk you keep referencing, takes some time to manifest. Tsunade chakra scalpels herself free, and punches the ground to send everything flying. Or, in the extremely unlikely scenerio that she get's bisected, she simply immediately summons Katsuyu to envelope and heal her. You haven't presented anything that Tsunade can't endure, and overcome.

That's nothing to do with quick reactions, stop denying the context of that scan. Madara had JUST talked about Hashirama's amazing healing powers. A moment later Tsunade activates Byakugo and shows superior healing powers, he was surprised by her healing powers obviously, because Tsunade cannot do shit if Madara chose for he not to do shit. Especially when v2 Ay admitted his speed isn't enough for Madara, I cannot possibly see how you could go on to claim that anything other then her healing is what surprised Madara. Anything else you are suggesting is baseless. "Quick executions" because you can gauge panel speed? Nah I'm good. And lol, wot? When did I ever suggest Konan's paper is restraining Tsunade? It simply sits above her hand so that she cannot see, smell, etc. Then Tsunade's hands get completely wrapped around with paper. The paper is not restraining the individual fingers to prevent movement, the paper is simply preventing the potential for individual use of the finger but still allowing movement of the fingers, hands, etc.
@bold, there's a few problems here.
1. Tsunade would also need to activate Byakugo while she's in the paper, which takes slight amounts of time and a seal

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. She won't be able to do that until she breaks out of the paper with chakra scalpel, frees her mouth/nose, etc. And ONLY then can she punch the ground with enough force to send paper flying. There's no way that Konan won't have already fired her attack by then and bisected Tsunade in half.
2. Summoning Katsuyu after she gets bisected? Tsunade could barely move and was pretty much asleep initially

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, by then she'd be wrapped around papers sending her to Punk Hazard. And no, she can't touch her body with her fingers to obtain blood while wrapped around with paper.

@your post to Ice, you're wrong. They have the hardness of steel but they are much faster then KCM Naruto's movement speed. That means if a Kunai is thrown at Tsunade it will pierce her and then stop due to lack of momentum and the loss of momentum after hitting her body. For Konan, that's not the case at all. They have much more momentum then a kunai, in addition to being controlled by Konan at ALL TIMES. That means even after it's made contact with Tsunade's body, Konan just needs to keep applying the same speed on the papers and thus they will keep going further and further into Tsunade's body. Of course, in a real scenario, they would cut through without stopping because they don't ever lose momentum as long as they have the necessary penetrative force. This should be a rather simple concept to understand.

 

[Zexion~]

Even with added force they only pierced Jiraiya without cutting through him (its also a clone)

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You can argue it got stronger but I don't really see why they would have.

 

[Team7monaa]

Tsunade mid-difficulty. She can easily evade any of Konan's attacks. If Konan decides to go mid-air, Tsunade proceeds to strike the ground and allow the flying debris and boulders to cause substantial damage or to get her back down. Unlike Konan, Tsunade has masses amounts of chakra and can hold her own for a decent period of time. Konan can't in any way, cause any alarming damage with the likes of her arsenal and Tsunade's Byakugō.

 

[Apêx1]

Even with added force they only pierced Jiraiya without cutting through him (its also a clone)

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You can argue it got stronger but I don't really see why they would have.

That was child Konan, I'm not sure what relevance that argument has. I have no intention of arguing how much momentum her papers can produce. Doesn't matter if you think they have or haven't, fact is, as long as I use her current papers speed, her ability to manipulate them continuously, and them being as hard as steel, my point will stand. Anything child Konan did will not affect that at all.

 

[Icelerate]

Even with added force they only pierced Jiraiya without cutting through him (its also a clone)

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You can argue it got stronger but I don't really see why they would have.

First off Jiraiya was sent flying. In this scenario, we are talking about Konan restraining Tsunade to prevent her from getting sent flying backwards when Konan attacks. Here is an analogy, I can't cut wood with a chainsaw if it is in midair as it will just get sent flying but when it is against solid ground, it becomes possible to cut it in half.

 

[KingHashirama]

just the username is enough.

The sheep has no good insults.

 

[Icelerate]

Nagato the guy who didn't even Knew about Obito's plan ;lol

His plan was to bring peace to world after nuking it and nothing changes the fact that Konan herself implied that she has been preparing the tech for long time
Edit: i m out i have my material science paper i will ask a friend for viz scan of the page

The viz says that

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. It has nothing to do with prepping it during her Akatsuki days but about her ability to keenly analyse Obito's ability while she was in Akatsuki. Anyhow, Konan states this was prepared "for you" (

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) and it couldn't have been until she defected from the Akatsuki because if Konan and Nagato were planning to betray Obito, Nagato wouldn't have made Konan take the front stand against Obito and instead fight Obito himself. There is also the fact that Konan did

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so she can prep it multiple times within the timeframe from Pain Invasion to War Arc. Considering Tobirama can multiply many paper tag bombs in a matter of a few seconds, I don't see what is so ridiculous for Konan being able to do something similar in 4 days when she could probably do it in a matter of hours.

 

[Curse Mark]

You can argue it got stronger but I don't really see why they would have.

Because she was a child who was just learning ninjutsu?
How many people do you know in Naruto who did not change at all from academy age until becoming above a jonin level?

 

[Icelerate]

Pretty sure I liked that comment based on the Bee point that was made. I don't recall ever stating that a simple Kunai can easily take down Tsunade. You liked my previous post on why I think Tsunade wins, yet it seems that you're still on Konans side.

Well that makes sense.

And as I thought, those paper shuriken are inadequate. They aren't cutting deep into Tsunade, considering they didn't show any real penetrative power [

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]. Highly doubt that paper chakram is bisecting her as well, certainly not cleenly (doesn't make a difference either way).

Okay I'll agree that they can't pierce cleanly/deeply into Tsunade and by the time they do, Tsunade would have regenerated from the initial slices so Konan can't simply cut Tsunade up. Nevertheless I still think she wins. Paper can still pierce into her skin and from their block her movements much like

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. Sure Gaara's control over sand is a lot stronger than Konan's control over paper but so is SM Hashirama enhanced Madara compared to Tsunade's strength. Coupled with an outer restraint like against the fodder and you have Tsunade completely restrained. Then to prevent Katsuyu from interfering, Konan can fly away above Katsuyu's elevation where Konan can then continuously cut Tsunade's vitals. 20 paper bombs are also blowing Tsunade's limbs off considering their impact would be much stronger than what Obito felt because Obito had absorbed most of the explosion (

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). Tsunade will quickly succumb to Konan's flurry of attacks much worse than her temporarily collapsing after getting impaled by two susanoo swords (

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). You have to keep in mind that Konan can cause paper to multiply so all this paper would fill up the wounded areas thus preventing regeneration. Sooner than later Tsunade dies due to regeneration not working and the damage piling up.

 

[Curse Mark]

Well that makes sense.

Okay I'll agree that they can't pierce cleanly/deeply into Tsunade and by the time they do, Tsunade would have regenerated from the initial slices so Konan can't simply cut Tsunade up. Nevertheless I still think she wins. Paper can still pierce into her skin and from their block her movements much like

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. Sure Gaara's control over sand is a lot stronger than Konan's control over paper but so is SM Hashirama enhanced Madara compared to Tsunade's strength. Coupled with an outer restraint like against the fodder and you have Tsunade completely restrained. Then to prevent Katsuyu from interfering, Konan can fly away above Katsuyu's elevation where Konan can then continuously cut Tsunade's vitals. 20 paper bombs are also blowing Tsunade's limbs off considering their impact would be much stronger than what Obito felt because Obito had absorbed most of the explosion (

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). Tsunade will quickly succumb to Konan's flurry of attacks much worse than her temporarily collapsing after getting impaled by two susanoo swords (

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). You have to keep in mind that Konan can cause paper to multiply so all this paper would fill up the wounded areas thus preventing regeneration. Sooner than later Tsunade dies due to regeneration not working and the damage piling up.

Her paper airplanes penetrated the steel floor when she was fighting jiraiya

 

[Icelerate]

Her paper airplanes penetrated the steel floor when she was fighting jiraiya

Was it really steel or just stone? Even if it was just stone, it was a good feat because the projectiles were shot at the ground from an angle so the force applied wasn't at full potential.

 

[BLAZE]

There is also the fact that Konan did

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so she can prep it multiple times within the timeframe from Pain Invasion to War Arc. Considering Tobirama can multiply many paper tag bombs in a matter of a few seconds, I don't see what is so ridiculous for Konan being able to do something similar in 4 days when she could probably do it in a matter of hours.

yeah got that
@bold it was 600 billion paper tags huh.If she creates 1000 and camouflage them in ocean in 1 sec she can create around 345 million in 4 days :lol

and you guys are implying she made around 1.7 million paper tags per second for 4 days and camouflage them at same time and still not finding it ridiculous :|

 

[Icelerate]

yeah got that
@bold it was 600 billion paper tags huh.If she creates 1000 and camouflage them in ocean in 1 sec she can create around 345 million in 4 days :lol

and you guys are implying she made around 1.7 million paper tags per second for 4 days and camouflage them at same time and still not finding it ridiculous :|

Has it been confirmed Konan produces 1000 paper per second?