Haku vs Konan

super yang

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Konan wins

-paper clones were cannonized in ch. 430, clones don't need feats. they're a static jutsu supplement
-haku is not a sensor/ cannot track Konan
-ice mirrors are just as useless in mid air as on the ground(am I missing something?)
-ice dome(how is this an escape/counter?) is haku checkmating himself - gets covered w/ paper suffoca. & blown w/ bombs

other notable characters konan beats in matchups w/ mid diff:

- deidara
- 1 ms kakashi
- darui/mifune/asuma/kitsuchi etc.
- Onoki
- Tsunade
- chiyo
- Kimimaro
- sai
 
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RasenUchihaChaos

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Link Konan speed feats? I don't really know her calibre as she's done jack shit, thats the problem.

Are serious she made a character who was only strong because of kamui she made him look like the weak punk he was

Obito was going to die but then yea Madara taught him izanagi his kamui failed against konan

She messed him up hard that day his fanboys were in pain
 

Curse Mark

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Konan wins

-paper clones were cannonized in ch. 430, clones don't need feats. they're a static jutsu supplement
-haku is not a sensor/ cannot track Konan
-ice mirrors are just as useless in mid air as on the ground(am I missing something?)
-ice dome(how is this an escape/counter?) is haku checkmating himself - gets covered w/ paper suffoca. & blown w/ bombs

other notable characters konan beats in matchups w/ mid diff:

- deidara
- 1 ms kakashi
- darui/mifune/asuma/kitsuchi etc.
- Onoki
- Tsunade
- chiyo
- Kimimaro
- sai

Kimimaro poops on her
 

Icelerate

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When has Haku frozen anyone ever?
Well Haku can't freeze solid objects per say but the moisture around solid objects is fair game. Reason Haku can't freeze the moisture around humans is due to body heat which Konan lacks.
 

BLAZE

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Lel Super Yang :lol
 

Zexion~

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Again..... Haku's Ice Style is comprised of jutsu he uses, its like saying Kimi can create anything from his bones.

Jinton can take any form and spawn anywhere.

Do we give Deidara the ability to form anything he wants?

So why does Haku automatically get this ice bending ability? Because the databook description of the jutsu states "he freezes the air"? Shameful.

Konan shits.
 

Lord Tywin

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Konan could get between SM Naruto and Nagato before Naruto could reach Nagato. She's not that slow.
 

ToshiZO

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Are serious she made a character who was only strong because of kamui she made him look like the weak punk he was

Obito was going to die but then yea Madara taught him izanagi his kamui failed against konan

She messed him up hard that day his fanboys were in pain

With a lifetime of prep?
 

Curse Mark

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Again..... Haku's Ice Style is comprised of jutsu he uses, its like saying Kimi can create anything from his bones.

Jinton can take any form and spawn anywhere.

Do we give Deidara the ability to form anything he wants?

So why does Haku automatically get this ice bending ability? Because the databook description of the jutsu states "he freezes the air"? Shameful.

Konan shits.

You dont think Kimi can control what his bones do?
 

Zexion~

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You dont think Kimi can control what his bones do?

I do :lol meant to edit that out of the post.

Don't think he could form bones into things like a cage or anything though. What he's shown is what he gets.
 

Haizaki

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@Beans Paper clones are canon..Bottom left

I'll give this fight to Konan...She's able to create paper and make it seem no different from the environment like when she hid Nagato in that tree and when she mimicked the ocean. Pretty sure in an environment like this, Haku could be caught off guard if not careful. Asides that Haku can defend herself but with no intel on one's ability, how's she going to know when to defend herself when even Obito with the Sharingan didn't realize there were paper bombs within? Haku has no intel on this...Even if she did, Konan has a Paper clone so it would be more or less tricky for Haku to know when to release this technique in order to defend herself from a technique that can come anytime.

Could probably go either way but I'll stick with Konan based on portrayal.
 
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Curse Mark

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I do :lol meant to edit that out of the post.

Don't think he could form bones into things like a cage or anything though. What he's shown is what he gets.

I mean clearly he has control over it or else he wouldnt be able to create bone masks under the entirety of his skin. Unless you have bones running the entire length of your body like a suit of armor?
 

Apêx1

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-Paper clones aren't canon.
-She can't react to Haku's attack, who Sai couldn't dodge.
-An ice shield protects her from paper suffocation.
-Haku will immediately see that needles are useless and change tactics.
-He will see the paper bombs and put up an ice shield.

-Uh, yes they are. She stated that she can use a paper clone when Nagato called her back, thus she can.
-Yet Base Lee did with the added effects of a spin. Sai could block.
-Haku's Ice Shield requires continious use of chakra to maintain. Konan simply needs to engulf the shield with tonnes of paper so once Haku comes out she'll suffocate or die from the paper bombs within them.
-By then she's already lost since Konan has initiated her attack, and by your argument she defends via her Ice shield.
-If he sees them then it's already too late, Obito who is much more perceptive then Haku didn't notice them while they flew past him , and only noticed them when they were about to explode. At that point it's too late, since Haku's Ice Shield formation is not instant. She's caught Obito , she'll definitely shit on Haku.
 

Beans2

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-Uh, yes they are. She stated that she can use a paper clone when Nagato called her back, thus she can.

Okay, forgot that.

-Yet Base Lee did with the added effects of a spin. Sai could block.

Base Lee has much better reactions that Konan who .

-Haku's Ice Shield requires continious use of chakra to maintain. Konan simply needs to engulf the shield with tonnes of paper so once Haku comes out she'll suffocate or die from the paper bombs within them.

Pretty sure Konan has a limited amount of paper tags. An explosion couldn't even scratch an ice shield. If Haku needs to he just puts up a second shield.

-By then she's already lost since Konan has initiated her attack, and by your argument she defends via her Ice shield.

Not seeing how Haku starting off with ice needles = he automatically loses. Tbh, it's kind of ridiculous that you're implying this battle will be over in less than a minute.

-If he sees them then it's already too late, Obito who is much more perceptive then Haku didn't notice them while they flew past him , and only noticed them when they were about to explode. At that point it's too late, since Haku's Ice Shield formation is not instant. She's caught Obito , she'll definitely shit on Haku.

-Konan had prepared a battle plan specifically for countering kamui in that instance.
-Obito was instead of looking out for paper bombs. And even then, he could have just gone ghost to escape the explosion but chose to warp away the explosion instead.

-Haku has already .
-The traveling speed of Konan's paper is slow enough for base Jiraiya to an attack with large AOE from close-medium range. So she's not "blitzing with paper bombs".

Besides, even if Haku doesn't know they're paper bombs, he will still see the attack coming and choose to block or evade, and is easily capable of doing either. Konan has no counter to getting frozen in an ice cube. Like Icelerate said, people's body heat prevents Haku from insta-freezing people, but if Konan uses her paper body she has no body heat. If she uses her normal body, water needles GG.
 

Apêx1

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Okay, forgot that.



Base Lee has much better reactions that Konan who .

Not exactly sure how you can quantify her reaction speed from a moment in which she was attacking, and then got counter-attacked. That's like saying Ay couldn't dodge Sasuke's Chidori had he not been attacking at the time as well.

Pretty sure Konan has a limited amount of paper tags. An explosion couldn't even scratch an ice shield. If Haku needs to he just puts up a second shield.

Please read before you reply. I not once suggested Konan is breaking through the Ice, don't put words in my mouth. I said she'll engulf the Ice Shield and wait out Haku's leave where Haku dies. It's not like Haku can do anything inside there.

Not seeing how Haku starting off with ice needles = he automatically loses. Tbh, it's kind of ridiculous that you're implying this battle will be over in less than a minute.

It is, because once Konan initiates her attack, it's an attack to suffocate by engulfing Haku in paper/exploding on her. Haku will get caught by these absurdly fast papers, or she will enter Ice Shield as YOU suggested. At this point the fight is done because Haku either dies from chakra loss or she dies from releasing her Ice Shield and getting her face blown off.

-Konan had prepared a battle plan specifically for countering kamui in that instance.
-Obito was instead of looking out for paper bombs. And even then, he could have just gone ghost to escape the explosion but chose to warp away the explosion instead.

She simply knew how Kamui works and could find a way around it with her papers. And no, he most definitely could not go ghost in that situation. He was attempting to warp Konan away but instead warped the explosion and thus prevented both of their death. He can't go ghost while warping something away, which is why he got blown away again later when he was trying to warp himself away.

-Haku has already .
-The traveling speed of Konan's paper is slow enough for base Jiraiya to an attack with large AOE from close-medium range. So she's not "blitzing with paper bombs".

Which fly at far lesser speeds. Konan could raise her hand and attach explosive tags to Obito before he could warp himself away, despite the speed at which his warping occurs. Blitzing is definitely happening here, not sure why you're giving Haku other people's reaction speeds either. Haku as shit reaction speed and got bested by early part 1 Sasuke. The only time she is fast is during her Mirror jutsu.

Besides, even if Haku doesn't know they're paper bombs, he will still see the attack coming and choose to block or evade, and is easily capable of doing either. Konan has no counter to getting frozen in an ice cube. Like Icelerate said, people's body heat prevents Haku from insta-freezing people, but if Konan uses her paper body she has no body heat. If she uses her normal body, water needles GG.

She can't evade the paper bombs, not a chance in hell. He can block with Ice Shield, but as I have already said, that is the end of it. And lol at body heat being the reason she can't insta-freeze people. That's completely baseless, her Ice can form in any location and has frozen surrounding air in the past, where people were breathing icy breaths. Katon didn't even affect Haku's Ice, I'm pretty sure body heat isn't going to have the slightest affect on Konan.
 

Beans2

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Not exactly sure how you can quantify her reaction speed from a moment in which she was attacking, and then got counter-attacked. That's like saying Ay couldn't dodge Sasuke's Chidori had he not been attacking at the time as well.

Konan was attacking from long range. Not comparable to physically going up to a person and then getting outmaneuvered. Jiraiya dodged the paper planes and counterattacked at the same time, but Konan could not halt her attack and dodge in time. Anyway, what reaction feats does Konan have that let her evade getting frozen in a block of ice near-instantly?

Please read before you reply. I not once suggested Konan is breaking through the Ice, don't put words in my mouth. I said she'll engulf the Ice Shield and wait out Haku's leave where Haku dies. It's not like Haku can do anything inside there.

Lmao...this strategy fails because:

-Konan can't outlast Haku.
-Haku can just thaw a portion of the ice, , then freeze Konan in an ice cube instead of attacking with needles.
-The various mirrors containing Haku's image means Konan doesn't know where she's going to be attacked from.

It is, because once Konan initiates her attack, it's an attack to suffocate by engulfing Haku in paper/exploding on her. Haku will get caught by these absurdly fast papers, or she will enter Ice Shield as YOU suggested. At this point the fight is done because Haku either dies from chakra loss or she dies from releasing her Ice Shield and getting her face blown off.

Those "absurdly fast papers" were dodged by base Jiraiya so I see no reason why they would blitz Haku before he can dodge. As I said, thawing a portion of the ice shield lets Haku get the hell out of there if he needs to, and Konan wouldn't know where he is exiting, or even know which is the real Haku, due to his image being projected all over the ice mirrors.

She simply knew how Kamui works and could find a way around it with her papers. And no, he most definitely could not go ghost in that situation. He was attempting to warp Konan away but instead warped the explosion and thus prevented both of their death. He can't go ghost while warping something away, which is why he got blown away again later when he was trying to warp himself away.

He saw that they were paper bombs before they exploded, but decided to continue warping instead of cancelling the warp and going ghost.

Which fly at far lesser speeds. Konan could raise her hand and attach explosive tags to Obito before he could warp himself away, despite the speed at which his warping occurs. Blitzing is definitely happening here, not sure why you're giving Haku other people's reaction speeds either. Haku as shit reaction speed and got bested by early part 1 Sasuke. The only time she is fast is during her Mirror jutsu.

That's because the paper bombs were literally surrounding Obito and it doesn't take much time to attach them to him before he warps away. The Jiraiya vs Konan encounter is proof enough that Konan's paper attacks aren't nearly as fast as you're saying they are. Haku puts up an ice shield to block. End of story.

She can't evade the paper bombs, not a chance in hell. He can block with Ice Shield, but as I have already said, that is the end of it. And lol at body heat being the reason she can't insta-freeze people. That's completely baseless, her Ice can form in any location and has frozen surrounding air in the past, where people were breathing icy breaths. Katon didn't even affect Haku's Ice, I'm pretty sure body heat isn't going to have the slightest affect on Konan.

Then I see no counter to Haku insta-freezing Konan in a block of ice.
 

Apêx1

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Konan was attacking from long range. Not comparable to physically going up to a person and then getting outmaneuvered. Jiraiya dodged the paper planes and counterattacked at the same time, but Konan could not halt her attack and dodge in time. Anyway, what reaction feats does Konan have that let her evade getting frozen in a block of ice near-instantly?

Haku got by part 1 Sasuke in the speed department, that's the end of all speed related debates. That Sasuke couldn't even react to Base Lee in Part 1 at a much later point, this is literally a no comparison discussion.
@bold the reaction feats which allow her to avoid something that doesn't exist.

Lmao...this strategy fails because:

-Konan can't outlast Haku.
-Haku can just thaw a portion of the ice, , then freeze Konan in an ice cube instead of attacking with needles.
-The various mirrors containing Haku's image means Konan doesn't know where she's going to be attacked from.

-Um, what? Haku has a 2 in stamina, gtfo here. She's continuously wasting chakra maintaining her ice whereas Konan can simply use that small amount of paper for a much, much longer time since she could manipulate 600 Billion at one go for 10 minutes straight.
-

Those "absurdly fast papers" were dodged by base Jiraiya so I see no reason why they would blitz Haku before he can dodge. As I said, thawing a portion of the ice shield lets Haku get the hell out of there if he needs to, and Konan wouldn't know where he is exiting, or even know which is the real Haku, due to his image being projected all over the ice mirrors.

Because she's slower then part 1 Sasuke, stop using this retarded logic of Jiraiya dodged so Haku can dodge. It makes NO sense given Jiraiya is portrayed to be above Kisame's tier. Oh lord you don't know what the hell you are talking about smfh. If Haku is in the damned ice shield then she can't possibly be using her Ice Mirror's to somehow project her image, because.. SHE'S iN THE SHIELD. Not to mention, Konan engulfs the Ice Shield Haku creates, as I already stated 3 times now. It doesn't matter WHERE Haku exits, unless it's underground Haku gets CAUGHT.

He saw that they were paper bombs before they exploded, but decided to continue warping instead of cancelling the warp and going ghost.

It's official, you don't even read manga from right to left OR EVEN from left to right. You read it from bottom to top. Now try and read it from top to bottom, right to left --> . He is trying to warp Konan, and then, on the BOTTOM panel he notices the explosive tags. At that point he's already trying to warp Konan, so he can't instantly go ghost form like you are trying to suggest. Thus he warped the explosion itself instead of dying.

That's because the paper bombs were literally surrounding Obito and it doesn't take much time to attach them to him before he warps away. The Jiraiya vs Konan encounter is proof enough that Konan's paper attacks aren't nearly as fast as you're saying they are. Haku puts up an ice shield to block. End of story.


Then I see no counter to Haku insta-freezing Konan in a block of ice.

1. He tries to warp himself. 2. Konan reacts. 3. She raises her hand. 4. She manipulates the paper bombs and attaches them to Obito, and they are at least 1 meter from him. Uh, yes, they are pretty damn fast if they can still accomplish this after all the things which preceded it.

@bold, the only possibility for this is if Haku is right next to Konan, otherwise she won't be forming that Ice block anywhere near the term 'quickly'.
 

Braiyan

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Well Haku can't freeze solid objects per say but the moisture around solid objects is fair game.

When was this stated or implied? Haku being able to freeze solid objects in the way you suggest would have come in useful when dealing with Sai and everyone else on his birds, as he could have simply froze them and ambushed them while they fell out the sky. Or against Sai's explosive tags. Or even on the scrolls the sealing team was using.

Reason Haku can't freeze the moisture around humans is due to body heat which Konan lacks.

Why would body heat stop Haku from performing this supposed ability? His mirrors were cold enough to resist Katons. He created an ice dome that withstood paper tag explosions. has appeared when he uses his ability. If Haku can create ice that cold, the more likely reason why he hasn't frozen anyone is because he simply can't use his Kekkei Genkai in that manner.

Even if I were to agree that this is the reason why Haku can't freeze people, it still doesn't mean he can freeze Konan. He has never used ice jutsu on a scale that would encapsulate Konan and all of her paper. More importantly, he has never shown the ability to do this across a wide range. So even if I assume that he can, the mere fact that his range with freezing anything does not cover all of Konan and the range from which she usually fights implies that she can easily substitute with a paper clone and render his attempts useless.
 

Imperious

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Konan wins

-paper clones were cannonized in ch. 430, clones don't need feats. they're a static jutsu supplement
-haku is not a sensor/ cannot track Konan
-ice mirrors are just as useless in mid air as on the ground(am I missing something?)
-ice dome(how is this an escape/counter?) is haku checkmating himself - gets covered w/ paper suffoca. & blown w/ bombs

other notable characters konan beats in matchups w/ mid diff:

- deidara
- 1 ms kakashi
- darui/mifune/asuma/kitsuchi etc.
- Onoki
- Tsunade
- chiyo
- Kimimaro
- sai

I did a Konan vs Deidara thread and they say Deidara stomps ;-;
 
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