Muu vs Deva

Curse Mark

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Smh what? Why do you always ask for scans of everything? lmao, this is merely the jutsu which makes him go invisible.

Because you can't make a claim without evidence. And i was just wondering what he was talking about since he's the first person on this dammn site to refer to it as that

edit: you wouldnt find it weird that i ask for evidence of your claims if you always had evidence to support what you say

PS
never responded to me in kido vs haku thread so ill take that as an informal surrender
 

Zexion~

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He casually avoided a raikiri from Kakashi :lol ? Not talking about when he was affected by the chakra rod either, just like he causually blocked Jiraiya, Casually blocked his fastest attack, Casually gang raped him, animal path impaled him right through the shoulder.

Along with avoiding an FRS.

Not to mention bar the strength advantage pain was dealing with SM Naruto.


Even if he had one of those feats thats more than anything Mu has in CQC, so you need to relax with your Nagato hate KG.
 

Apêx1

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Because you can't make a claim without evidence. And i was just wondering what he was talking about since he's the first person on this dammn site to refer to it as that

edit: you wouldnt find it weird that i ask for evidence of your claims if you always had evidence to support what you say

PS
never responded to me in kido vs haku thread so ill take that as an informal surrender

Yes you can, if I say PS GG I don't need scans of PS since I'm not attempting to debate an ignorant opposition. But ok, if you haven't seen it around then fair enough.

You barely ask me for scans though, I'm only referring to what you say in most threads I see you in. Someone says Mei shit on Susano with Futton and you ask for scans, someone says Sasuke lost his wing vs Deidara and you say scans. It's almost like you have a concussion every other day.

And lol, I'm pretty sure I responded ages ago. Unless you replied after that, in which case I didn't get any notifications/didn't feel the need to check because my point is obviously extremely concrete/nigh irrefutable.
 

Braiyan

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Don't really see how Deva loses this to be honest.
With full intel he's going to either use BT or CT from the start. If it's CT then Mu will either be crushed in 15 seconds, or so much debris would have gathered around the core that it'll be unlikely Mu could destroy it in time.

If he uses Bansho Tenin from the start, then Mu either gets stabbed full of chakra rods, or Deva (taking into account the large boulders in this battlefield), and crushes him the same way Kabuto intended to crush Naruto. If he uses as much force in his BT as the one used on (who was unable to sense it coming), then I don't see Mu being able to react much better than Naruto did. Even if he does react to split himself, then Deva either makes it rain to detect his location (in the event that Mu splits outside of his chakra rod range) and wait it out for the remainder of the 15 seconds, or stabs the double as well with (in the event Mu splits inside of his chakra rod range).

In any event Deva wins with CST once the 15 second restriction is up.
 

Tantalus Thief

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Pain wins this. He can sense him using the Rain and proceed to pull him with Basho Tensei or just throw Chibaku Tensei.
 

Curse Mark

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Yes you can, if I say PS GG I don't need scans of PS since I'm not attempting to debate an ignorant opposition. But ok, if you haven't seen it around then fair enough.

You barely ask me for scans though, I'm only referring to what you say in most threads I see you in. Someone says Mei shit on Susano with Futton and you ask for scans, someone says Sasuke lost his wing vs Deidara and you say scans. It's almost like you have a concussion every other day.

And lol, I'm pretty sure I responded ages ago. Unless you replied after that, in which case I didn't get any notifications/didn't feel the need to check because my point is obviously extremely concrete/nigh irrefutable.

irrefutable? you the one who couldnt respond lol
and saying i have a concussion would make no sense unless im repeating the same question on the same thread in response to the same thing. I ask for scans because i dont have the best memory and remembering 600+ pages of manga is troublesome and im not gonna page through it all to find what im looking for.
 

KidGamer65

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He casually avoided a raikiri from Kakashi :lol ? Not talking about when he was affected by the chakra rod either, just like he causually blocked Jiraiya, Casually blocked his fastest attack, Casually gang raped him, animal path impaled him right through the shoulder.

Along with avoiding an FRS.

Not to mention bar the strength advantage pain was dealing with SM Naruto.


Even if he had one of those feats thats more than anything Mu has in CQC, so you need to relax with your Nagato hate KG.

-Deva himself never evaded Raikiri on his own. He needed to disrupt Kakashi's chakra w/ his rod first. The only time they did that is when they had Shared Vision working with them, and please don't tell me that Shared Vision Pain and regular Pain will react the same because the Manga disagrees with you, as usual. Increased perception=Increased reactions and that's why sensors react faster than they do w/o sensing despite it simply granting them more perception than they did before. Then there's the fact that Naruto and B attributed the Edo Jins fast reactions to Sharingan and Shared Vision.

Then there's the fact that you are trying to use the path with the superior physical abilities by far to justify Deva Path easily killing Mu. Terrible logic all around in this post.

-Avoiding FRS isn't a CQC feat. Learn what CQC is.

-"GANG" raping him isn't a feat that Deva gets here because Deva is obviously by himself. :lol Stop grasping at straws.

-Animal Path got a tired and battered Jiraiya with a sneak attack. Not CQC. :lol Do I have to go in depth on what CQC is? Because it seems like you are having trouble providing these amazing CQC feats Pain has. Giving evasive/movement speed feats for evidence invisible Mu gets raped in CQC makes zero sense because movement speed (on foot) is nigh irrelevant in CQC. Sasuke is far faster than Base Naruto on foot, yet Sasuke matches Naruto in CQC.

And no, Pain was never dealing with SM Naruto in CQC. Don't wank. SM Naruto shattered his chakra rod and knocked his ass into a rock both times he tried to take him on. Don't try and mention pure speed or reactions or anything, because Base Naruto was keeping up with Pain w/o his rod perfectly in Taijutsu.

The fact you accused me of Nagato hate only confirms that you are overrating Nagato. Though I'm not surprised since you stay trying to give this man godly reaction feats when they don't exist. So we have:

-Pain dealt with KN6 is CQC.
-Nagato reacts to V2 Ay, KCM Naruto and 7G Gai.
-Nagato reacts faster than KCM Naruto.
-Nagato>Minato in reaction speed.
-Nagato reacts to Hiraishin blitz.

:lol Jesus.

1. That's because his fighting style revolves around Deva. Doesn't mean that he has to rely on it, it's simply his safest option 99% of the time. He's tactically aware of when his CD is down and up, and what he can do within that time frame, which is why he almost never got caught.

Irrelevant. The point is, he never did, thus saying he did is ignoring Manga panels, and saying he can is based on nothing.

2. Pretty sure there was no "CQC" between them, it was Deva reacting to everything KN6 had. ST countered by KN6 and Deva comes out unharmed. TBB countered by Deva and Kyuubi coms out slightly harmed just like Deva. There's clearly no indication whatsoever of Deva getting owned. Anyways, he seemed to be running at a relatively similar speed to KN6 as well, so he wasn't owned in any single aspect of their fight.

KN6 engaged Deva, Deva had to resort to Shinra Tensei to try and deal with KN6, only to get repelled, thus Zexion using the nonsense claim of "handled KN6, thus he handles Mu" makes zero sense. Whether or not you think or I think it was CQC is completely irrelevant to the main point.

Not even sure why you are trying to argue whether or not he got owned with all his abilities when it doesn't matter here. Though Deva Path ended up running, thus he got owned. The fact he had to fall back means he got owned in the close quarters battle.

-KN6 charged. He used ST, got the force blown back on him.
-KN6 used BD, he used BT, managed to avoid the brunt of the attack, but is battered. KN6 is left unharmed.
-Deva realizes he can't beat him in close quarters and falls back to use Chibaku Tensei.

Though nice attempt at sugar coating that confrontation.

3. Deva was casually reacting to Kakashi's attacks, not sure what puts Mu anywhere near that level of striking speed. Mu splits in half when Deva puts a chakra rod into one of the replica's? Deva procees to stab the other one with a chakra rod. Nothing more, nothing less.

No, he wasn't. :lol I think you and Zexion need to go back and re-read that fight.

1. Deva tries to kill Iruka.
2. Kakashi intercepts.
3. Deva tries to kick Kakashi.
4. Kakashi seamlessly evades and uses Doton Wall.
5. Kakashi gets stabbed by a chakra rod.
6. Kakashi uses Raikiri.
7. Kakashi misses because Deva disrupted his chakra, not because he was too slow or because Deva "casually" reacted to his attack, because he didn't.
8. Asura Path provides back up and Deva spams Shinra Tensei the rest of the fight, which is irrelevant to all points being made here.

As for the rest, obviously not. If he's attracting one body of Mu, then that body will be attracted. When the other body splits off, it will be stationary, rendering this follow up chakra rod strategy null and void.

4. I'd LOVE some scans of this. Because Base Naruto never was matching Deva in CQC, and as a matter of fact, he was getting shat on in a similar way to what will happen to Mu . The usage of two chakra rods.

:lol

-Says Base Naruto was shat on in CQC.
-Gives me scans of Base Naruto's clones after he split his chakra by over 20x.



Without weapons Deva Path can't even subdue Base Naruto, but somehow with a rod he's going to shit all over an invisible Mu? Nice joke.
 
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Beans2

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I don't see how Muu stands a chance at losing, tbh, let alone getting low diff. All of Deva's moves are countered.

-Shinra Tensei isn't damaging a lightened Muu if it's not focused, and Deva would have no idea where to focus it if Muu is invisible. This includes CST too.

-Bansho Tenin either gets countered by weighted boulder jutsu (Muu making himself too heavy to be drawn in), fission split (one body gets drawn in and the other attacks Deva), or lightened boulder jutsu (Muu removes gravity with this jutsu, and BT is based on gravitational attraction so he just needs to activate it when he feels himself get drawn in, then he's free to fly away).

-Chibaku Tensei is destroyed with Jinton.

-The rain technique won't work, since Muu can just fly above the rain clouds and destroy them with Jinton.

-Gedo Mazou is destroyed with Jinton.
 

Zexion~

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Bruh KG You just ****ed up.

Shared vision grants just a wider scope of vision it doesn't increase shit about reactions :lol please post where the manga "disagrees" with me on that because its never been stated. There is absoutely no difference in reactions except that he can visually tell where an attack is. Don't compare sensing which lets you see an attack before its physically and visually percievable (chakra build up) and in most cases the opponenet is assuming the shinobi can't tell what is happening, with simply a wider scope of vision.

Pain reacted to a Raikiri because he saw it .-. if he visually saw the Raikiri without shared vision, if Kakashi just tried to do the same with a raikiri in plain sight... he would dodge it .-. I don't know why you're trying to say that seeing something in shared vision is going to send an impulse movement to the brain quicker than seeing something in plain sight, both require the image to be processed by the same brain in the same amount of time.

Rest of your post is pointless banter that I already know, except that Pain clearly reacted to and blocked a strike from SM Naruto.
 
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KidGamer65

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Bruh KG You just ****ed up.

Shared vision grants just a wider scope of vision it doesn't increase shit about reactions :lol please post where the manga "disagrees" with me on that because its never been stated. There is absoutely no difference in reactions except that he can visually tell where an attack is. Don't compare sensing which lets you see an attack before its physically and visually percievable (chakra build up) and in most cases the opponenet is assuming the shinobi can't tell what is happening, with simply a wider scope of vision.

Just explained it. Sensing does the same exact thing except it doesn't work via the eyes, yet all sensors react faster than they do without sensing. And that's because increased perception=increased reflexes. Period.

Your attempt to discredit the sensing is a terrible attempt due to the simple fact that all jutsu don't have build ups where sensing would help. Everyone got that build up stuff from Amaterasu, which has shown to need a lot of build up, and now try to apply that shit to literally every single jutsu. :lol


Pain reacted to a Raikiri because he saw it .-. if he visually saw the Raikiri without shared vision, if Kakashi just tried to do the same with a raikiri in plain sight... he would dodge it .-. I don't know why you're trying to say that seeing something in shared vision is going to send an impulse movement to the brain quicker than seeing something in plain sight, both require the image to be processed by the same brain in the same amount of time.

Rest of your post is pointless banter that I already know, except that Pain clearly reacted to and blocked a strike from SM Naruto.

Addressed on two fronts. The increased perception front and the fact that you are giving the machine's feats to Deva Path. :lol The fact that Deva Path needed disruption to evade Kakashi's first Raikiri attempt tells me enough as it is.

If the rest of the post is stuff you already knew, you wouldn't be claiming those feats allow him to shit on an invisible Mu in CQC.
 

Zexion~

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Just explained it. Sensing does the same exact thing except it doesn't work via the eyes, yet all sensors react faster than they do without sensing. And that's because increased perception=increased reflexes. Period.

Your attempt to discredit the sensing is a terrible attempt due to the simple fact that all jutsu don't have build ups where sensing would help. Everyone got that build up stuff from Amaterasu, which has shown to need a lot of build up, and now try to apply that shit to literally every single jutsu. :lol




Addressed on two fronts. The increased perception front and the fact that you are giving the machine's feats to Deva Path. :lol The fact that Deva Path needed disruption to evade Kakashi's first Raikiri attempt tells me enough as it is.

If the rest of the post is stuff you already knew, you wouldn't be claiming those feats allow him to shit on an invisible Mu in CQC.

-Not invisible with Rain sensing

-Stick to the Asura > Deva thing, Sensing is the same without build up jutsu..... Merely gives you wider range of view = more time to react, if someone's remaining in plain sight the whole time anyways its not needed smh.

He shits on a visible featless Mu in CQC :lol
 

KidGamer65

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-Not invisible with Rain sensing

-Stick to the Asura > Deva thing, Sensing is the same without build up jutsu..... Merely gives you wider range of view = more time to react, if someone's remaining in plain sight the whole time anyways its not needed smh.

He shits on a visible featless Mu in CQC :lol

More time to react=You react faster=Me being right=You beign wrong. :lol

-Uh what? :lol. Rain only lets Pain know his location, it doesn't change the fact that he is invisible and thus he won't be able to read when he attacks/defends. He'll only know that he is there.

-Absolutely wrong.
 

Beans2

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Why does Zexion always reply with a few sentences or bullet points when he quotes paragraphs, instead of actually countering the whole thing?
 

Zexion~

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More time to react=You react faster=Me being right=You beign wrong. :lol

-Uh what? :lol. Rain only lets Pain know his location, it doesn't change the fact that he is invisible and thus he won't be able to read when he attacks/defends. He'll only know that he is there.

-Absolutely wrong.

-More time to react means shit when you can see him the whole time anyways you fool :lol, are you really trying to argue this?

Can you tell me with all seriousness if:

-Asura was by himself with his head faced the other way he wouldn't react in the exact same way...... Sensing doesn't increase or decrease your chances of getting blitzed unless its meant to be an ambush.

Fused Kisame would still be blitzed by a V2 Bee if put in that same situation for instance, unless you can find me proof where sensing negated a straight blitz from the front?

-If you're having Mu engage him in CQC all he needs to know is his location....lets not forget he can see chakra as well.

-Again what are his feats please? :lol


Why does Zexion always reply with a few sentences or bullet points when he quotes paragraphs, instead of actually countering the whole thing?

What? Your ignorance shines through again, I always counter the entire thing hence why i'm known as "stubborn" and KG can attest to this with contempt :lol

Just not in the mood to argue that seriously right now.
 
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KidGamer65

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-More time to react means shit when you can see him the whole ****ing time anyways you idiot :lol, are you really trying to argue this?

Can you tell me with all seriousness if:

-Asura was by himself with his head faced the other way he wouldn't react in the exact same way...... Sensing doesn't increase or decrease your chances of getting blitzed unless its meant to be an ambush.

Fused Kisame would still be blitzed by a V2 Ay if put in that same situation for instance, unless you can find me proof where sensing negated a straight blitz from the front?

-If you're having Mu engage him in CQC all he needs to know is his location....lets not forget he can see chakra as well.

-Again what are his feats please? :lol

Zexion, please pull your head out of Nagato's fictional ass and stop being a retard.

-Naruto gets a higher level of sensing, Sage Sensing, and that lets him better react to Obito despite being able to see him. Sage Sensing>>>Normal Sensing, but it's still sensing. If I used your logic, it wouldn't mean shit at all. So please don't whine.

-Kabuto implies Shared Vision boosts reaction speed when he states that it was meant to compensate for Nagato's immobility.

Not gonna bother answering your example because it's irrelevant. Kisame being blitzed means that Kisame+Sensing isn't enough, not that Kisame+Sensing isn't>Kisame alone.

Not really. He knows his location, but he doesn't know if he's attacking or defending, so please tell me more about how Deva Path blocks without knowing:

-What angle the blade is coming from.
-Where exactly to strike to get past his guard (since he won't even know if he'll be attacking or defending)

Deva is fighting blind, he doesn't need superb feats to kill someone who can barely fight back. Not to mention you go on about the rain jutsu, but ignore the fact that it doesn't even give the precise location of the target. He only knows that someone has entered the village/area IIRC.

And Mu's ability erases his chakra, so Rinnegan won't pick it up. Though that is the only way Pain wins here.
 

Zexion~

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Zexion, please pull your head out of Nagato's fictional ass and stop being a retard.

-Naruto gets a higher level of sensing, Sage Sensing, and that lets him better react to Obito despite being able to see him. Sage Sensing>>>Normal Sensing, but it's still sensing. If I used your logic, it wouldn't mean shit at all. So please don't whine.

-Kabuto implies Shared Vision boosts reaction speed when he states that it was meant to compensate for Nagato's immobility.

Not gonna bother answering your example because it's irrelevant. Kisame being blitzed means that Kisame+Sensing isn't enough, not that Kisame+Sensing isn't>Kisame alone.

Not really. He knows his location, but he doesn't know if he's attacking or defending, so please tell me more about how Deva Path blocks without knowing:

-What angle the blade is coming from.
-Where exactly to strike to get past his guard (since he won't even know if he'll be attacking or defending)

Deva is fighting blind, he doesn't need superb feats to kill someone who can barely fight back. Not to mention you go on about the rain jutsu, but ignore the fact that it doesn't even give the precise location of the target. He only knows that someone has entered the village/area IIRC.

And Mu's ability erases his chakra, so Rinnegan won't pick it up. Though that is the only way Pain wins here.

It makes up for mobility because its hard for him to move around and view the battlefield giving his opponents an easier edge to catch him off guard with, but since he shares vision with things that can move they see for him its not needed if he can see it all himself although it clearly helps to increase your range of vision against alot of opponenets......Immobility doesn't really mean shit for Nagato's reactions when they only need to be mental for more than half his techniques.

Can you post this Obito scan?

Again you didn't answer my other example....If Asura was turned around would he be blitzed by Kaksahi?

Shared vision makes it harder to catch Pain off guard bro, same with sensing doesn't magically increase your physical reactions :lol.

Seen and reacted to with shared vision = Seen and reacted to with normal vision (shared vision Pain barely reacted to FRS, Single Pain barely reacted to FRS).


Anyways.... if Mu is moving towards Pain = Attack, if he's not Defend (although what exactly is he defending with) Not to mention your whole plan was having him split off during BT and charge Pain :lol Which you need feats of Mu overcoming him in CQC if you want to argue that.


Edit-How am I wanking Nagato? I'm saying this technique doesn't enhance his reactions .-. Not making him out to be stronger than he is.
 

DrProof

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Deva can take imo. Cool match-up tho. Need more like this.
 

KidGamer65

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It makes up for mobility because its hard for him to move around and view the battlefield giving his opponents an easier edge to catch him off guard with, but since he shares vision with things that can move they see for him its not needed if he can see it all himself although it clearly helps to increase your range of vision against alot of opponenets......Immobility doesn't really mean shit for Nagato's reactions when they only need to be mental for more than half his techniques.

No, it's not hard for him to view the battlefield. He can view the battlefield like any normal person. The only thing he can't do is move around, as in from point A to point B on his own. It's for reacting to incoming attacks faster to compensate for the fact that he has trouble moving on his own.

And :lol You sound ridiculous since reacting faster means you will react faster mentally and physically.

Can you post this Obito scan?



That's the end of that.

Again you didn't answer my other example....If Asura was turned around would he be blitzed by Kaksahi?

I didn't answer it because it's not relevant to anything being stated here. Why would he be blitzed when facing Kakashi when he reacted to him w/ Shared Vision turned around?

Shared vision makes it harder to catch Pain off guard bro, same with sensing doesn't magically increase your physical reactions :lol.

Manga disagrees, again.

Seen and reacted to with shared vision = Seen and reacted to with normal vision (shared vision Pain barely reacted to FRS, Single Pain barely reacted to FRS).

Manga disagreed.


Anyways.... if Mu is moving towards Pain = Attack, if he's not Defend (although what exactly is he defending with) Not to mention your whole plan was having him split off during BT and charge Pain :lol Which you need feats of Mu overcoming him in CQC if you want to argue that.

If this is CQC, why would they be moving toward/away each other? They'd be in the same general position. Not to mention your whole plan falls apart because Rain Tiger doesn't give exact locations. Let's not ignore that this time.

And that is exactly what is happening here. Mu splits off, and goes invisible and engages Pain.
 

Zexion~

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No, it's not hard for him to view the battlefield. He can view the battlefield like any normal person. The only thing he can't do is move around, as in from point A to point B on his own. It's for reacting to incoming attacks faster to compensate for the fact that he has trouble moving on his own.

And :lol You sound ridiculous since reacting faster means you will react faster mentally and physically.





That's the end of that.



I didn't answer it because it's not relevant to anything being stated here. Why would he be blitzed when facing Kakashi when he reacted to him w/ Shared Vision turned around?



Manga disagrees, again.



Manga disagreed.




If this is CQC, why would they be moving toward/away each other? They'd be in the same general position. Not to mention your whole plan falls apart because Rain Tiger doesn't give exact locations. Let's not ignore that this time.

And that is exactly what is happening here. Mu splits off, and goes invisible and engages Pain.

Bro I've clearly stated that is what I'm saying here :lol,


Seems like Naruto was just having trouble tracking him......

You've switched up like three times no :lol "he can sense his location only" if his chakra is being disturbed he can tell where it is.


Anyways if he sees Mu he can react with ease, he SAW Kakashi and reacted :lol arguing for no reason at this point.
 

KidGamer65

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Bro I've clearly stated that is what I'm saying here :lol,

And your question is not only dumb, but it's completely irrelevant as it literally changes nothing.


Seems like Naruto was just having trouble tracking him......

You've switched up like three times no :lol "he can sense his location only" if his chakra is being disturbed he can tell where it is.


Anyways if he sees Mu he can react with ease, he SAW Kakashi and reacted :lol arguing for no reason at this point.

Wow. Why do I even bother? :lol Manga panels can be provided and you still keep arguing your flawed opinion.

You must be registered for see images


"I'm starting to be able to SENSE HIM".

Once he was able to better sense him, he was able to tag him. Boosted reaction speed.

Don't try and debate Manga fact, it's irritating.

No, that's exactly how the jutsu has worked from the jump. Let's learn what switching up actually is. :lol. He senses their presence, not their location. I suggest we try reading the Manga before we start giving this jutsu imaginary abilities.

-He won't see Mu. So that's irrelevant.
-Even if he did see Mu, reacting doesn't mean that he wins the CQC confrontation.
 
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