EZQ
Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2012
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Here’s my judgement
This won’t be like Kidgamer vs Zexion lol this time i copy-pasted one post per time. Ok here we go.
First argument: The set up
Second argument: Animal path
Third argument: Asura path
Fourth argument: Preta path
Fifht argument: Deva path
How the battle proceeds:
Veredict
This won’t be like Kidgamer vs Zexion lol this time i copy-pasted one post per time. Ok here we go.
First argument: The set up
Beans states that the Gokage would start the battle by setting up their combos. Mei will use Hidden Mist Jutsu to cover the other kage, while Ay and Onoki get in their backpack combo. Onoki will make a rock clone which will lighten Gaara's sand to give it a speed boost. Gaara will spread his sensor sand over the battlefield. This dual screen of sand and mist completely shuts off Nagato's perception of the battlefield around him.
1. The mist will block the Rinnegan's vision and break the visual link Nagato has with his summoning animals.
2. The chakra in the wide scale sensor sand will jam Nagato's sensing.
I think there’s nothing to argue here . Dox tried to counter this by saying this is a special jutsu from that Aburame guy, which I agree, but, Gaara’s sensor sand, which is obviously enhaced with a special chakra, could at least make a “replica” of this jutsu. It might not be as effective as this aburame’s jutsu, and considering Nagato’s sensing should be > that guy’s, I give it a 50%, meaning that I think Nagato’s sensing wouldn’t be completely jammed.
Dox stated then how Nagato would start, by summons his Rinnegan Summonings to start off the battle while taking flight and getting his distance, With the combination of Deva's levitation and Asura path's Rocket boots {1→2} this basically gives Nagato flight in the scan of Madara we saw him Bijuu height when levitated he can get much higher as Deva path has already shown when he used Chou Shira Tensei on the Leaf Village. Madara was shown to have decent speed when using Deva abilties as flight, Nagato using the same technique in conjunction with Rocket boost give him better flight ability and would increase his speed and mobility.
I do agree with this method, even if as bean stated right earlier, it’s not a “fast” flight, the combined levitation and asura’s rockets can give him enough mobility to not get fodderized in the air. Tho Beans after stated that all the ones on the Gokage team can fly which is true, since Onoki is there, so Beans won there, Nagato being on air doesn’t put him on a safe place, since the Gokage can fly too.
So at the end, Nagato’s sensing is kind of jammed, and his linked vision is useless. Nagato starting the fight by going airbone doesn’t save him since the Gokage can fly too so Gokage definitely has the upper hand with the set up +beans
I must agree with Dox however that, while being airbone, he’s more prepared to counter a speedblitz from backpack combo Ay+Onoki, since flying is not as fast as Ay’s speed. Let’s see how that plays out.
Also I almost forgot to add that as beans stated The bugs have a different chakra signature than the Hyuga in the bottom panel, but the wide scale bug jamming blocked the Mist shinobi's sensing so he couldn't sense anyone below him. If we go by your logic, Kakashi would have been able to see the other Edo ninja swordsmen through Hidden Mist with his sharingan because they have different chakra signatures than Zabuza (the one producing the mist), but he didn't see them. Shared vision is useless due to mist obscuring their vision. Which I agree, so this doesn’t help Nagato’s sensing at all.
Also Nagato using shinra tensei to blow away the sensor sand is not viable since it means his death during the cooldown as I will refer later
1. The mist will block the Rinnegan's vision and break the visual link Nagato has with his summoning animals.
2. The chakra in the wide scale sensor sand will jam Nagato's sensing.
I think there’s nothing to argue here . Dox tried to counter this by saying this is a special jutsu from that Aburame guy, which I agree, but, Gaara’s sensor sand, which is obviously enhaced with a special chakra, could at least make a “replica” of this jutsu. It might not be as effective as this aburame’s jutsu, and considering Nagato’s sensing should be > that guy’s, I give it a 50%, meaning that I think Nagato’s sensing wouldn’t be completely jammed.
Dox stated then how Nagato would start, by summons his Rinnegan Summonings to start off the battle while taking flight and getting his distance, With the combination of Deva's levitation and Asura path's Rocket boots {1→2} this basically gives Nagato flight in the scan of Madara we saw him Bijuu height when levitated he can get much higher as Deva path has already shown when he used Chou Shira Tensei on the Leaf Village. Madara was shown to have decent speed when using Deva abilties as flight, Nagato using the same technique in conjunction with Rocket boost give him better flight ability and would increase his speed and mobility.
I do agree with this method, even if as bean stated right earlier, it’s not a “fast” flight, the combined levitation and asura’s rockets can give him enough mobility to not get fodderized in the air. Tho Beans after stated that all the ones on the Gokage team can fly which is true, since Onoki is there, so Beans won there, Nagato being on air doesn’t put him on a safe place, since the Gokage can fly too.
So at the end, Nagato’s sensing is kind of jammed, and his linked vision is useless. Nagato starting the fight by going airbone doesn’t save him since the Gokage can fly too so Gokage definitely has the upper hand with the set up +beans
I must agree with Dox however that, while being airbone, he’s more prepared to counter a speedblitz from backpack combo Ay+Onoki, since flying is not as fast as Ay’s speed. Let’s see how that plays out.
Also I almost forgot to add that as beans stated The bugs have a different chakra signature than the Hyuga in the bottom panel, but the wide scale bug jamming blocked the Mist shinobi's sensing so he couldn't sense anyone below him. If we go by your logic, Kakashi would have been able to see the other Edo ninja swordsmen through Hidden Mist with his sharingan because they have different chakra signatures than Zabuza (the one producing the mist), but he didn't see them. Shared vision is useless due to mist obscuring their vision. Which I agree, so this doesn’t help Nagato’s sensing at all.
Also Nagato using shinra tensei to blow away the sensor sand is not viable since it means his death during the cooldown as I will refer later
All the summons are countered with heavy weight rock punch or crushed by Gaara. The chameleon can be located by sensing sand, which if is blowed away then it automatically ends in nagato’s death (let’s state this now for no further trouble, if Nagato uses shinra tensei, Onoki+Ay’s combo trolls it by taking away gravity, and take advantage of the cooldown, so every time Dox uses shinra tensei for his argument, it’s nullified). Cerberus gets killed by Onoki and the bird gets taken down by Gaara (which also nullifies dox’s argument of Nagato having shared vision with his bird on the air outside the mist).
Beans won there
Beans won there
Useless on the attack. It’s useful for Nagato to have a 360 field vision thanks to having 3 faces. And also as explained before it helps to his flight. Not a lot to argue here
As for the arguments I read so far I think it’s pretty clear it’s useful for mei’s attacks and Gaara’s sand. I think dox had the right word there. Madara’s example is kind of a contradiction, and in the example beans gave there are a lot of outside factors, like for example, madara coulb be absorbing the lightining instead of the sand and that’s why the sand didn’t fall, or, the sand could have been absorbed little by little but it wasn’t fast enough to fall before the kage’s combo was completed.
Also, I liked dox’s example a lot about comparing Bee’s lariat to Ay’s lariat, showing clearly the strength difference between the brother, and Nagato was on time to absorbs all of the v2 cloack with preta before getting even a single scratch, which leads me to believe that, even if Nagato can’t react to Ay, he could at least activate preta which absorbs pretty fast before getting a lot of damage. So good job there for dox on showing a viable way to at least survive the back pack shitblitz. Since he also showed that this punch emits this kind of chakra cannon, which nagato can absorb.
I must say however that I don’t think Nagato can keep performing this against Ay’s overwhelming speed, and it doesn’t even guarantee his survival, it only shows a viable way to survive it, but with the lack of a second post to solidify this argument, it’s kind of a moot point.
Also, I liked dox’s example a lot about comparing Bee’s lariat to Ay’s lariat, showing clearly the strength difference between the brother, and Nagato was on time to absorbs all of the v2 cloack with preta before getting even a single scratch, which leads me to believe that, even if Nagato can’t react to Ay, he could at least activate preta which absorbs pretty fast before getting a lot of damage. So good job there for dox on showing a viable way to at least survive the back pack shitblitz. Since he also showed that this punch emits this kind of chakra cannon, which nagato can absorb.
I must say however that I don’t think Nagato can keep performing this against Ay’s overwhelming speed, and it doesn’t even guarantee his survival, it only shows a viable way to survive it, but with the lack of a second post to solidify this argument, it’s kind of a moot point.
Beans+++ on going on a detailed explanation on how Onoki’s weight control trolls gravitational changes, I think that this argument changes the outcome of the match radically, since everytime Nagato performs shinra tensei here, he gets blitzed thanks to Onoki’s ability.
CST is death for Nagato since it means long cooldown. He can’t track Ay’s speed thus can’t really get him with concentrated CST. If he doesn’t gather it on a single opponent and decides to use it on a 360° field to actually make sure he hits everyone, he gets blitzed by Ay (who survives the CST since his weight is almost null).
CT’s core gets destroyed by Jinton.
Dox’s arguments against the shitblitz focus on the fact that Nagato can fly to avoid the shitblitz, but beans countered this well here: ]You might say that Ay's shunshin can't cover a distance like that because his momentum will eventually slow him down, but here's the beautiful thing about the backpack combo with Onoki: Ay is weightless, and has no gravity. That means he has less weight to carry himself forward and can cross greater distances faster (I can run faster normally than I can when I'm carrying 35 lb barbells so don't deny that weight is important.) Since Onoki removed Ay's gravity and the gravity of the air around him, there's no friction or air resistance slowing him down. In other words, Ay will still be moving at the same speed he was when he first kicked off the ground, thirty seconds later. It's the same principle as if I throw a rock in outer space, the rock will continue to travel through a straight line forever since there is no gravity acting upon it, and Databook states that the jutsu also lightens the atmosphere around the target so there's no air resistance.
Because of this, Nagato being airborne won't save him from a blitz since Ay can cross incredible distances if he's lightened, and Ay was already shown capable of jumping high into the sky (x)
The lack of dox’s second post doesn’t leave me choice but to believe this shits on Nagato’s flying tactic.
CST is death for Nagato since it means long cooldown. He can’t track Ay’s speed thus can’t really get him with concentrated CST. If he doesn’t gather it on a single opponent and decides to use it on a 360° field to actually make sure he hits everyone, he gets blitzed by Ay (who survives the CST since his weight is almost null).
CT’s core gets destroyed by Jinton.
Dox’s arguments against the shitblitz focus on the fact that Nagato can fly to avoid the shitblitz, but beans countered this well here: ]You might say that Ay's shunshin can't cover a distance like that because his momentum will eventually slow him down, but here's the beautiful thing about the backpack combo with Onoki: Ay is weightless, and has no gravity. That means he has less weight to carry himself forward and can cross greater distances faster (I can run faster normally than I can when I'm carrying 35 lb barbells so don't deny that weight is important.) Since Onoki removed Ay's gravity and the gravity of the air around him, there's no friction or air resistance slowing him down. In other words, Ay will still be moving at the same speed he was when he first kicked off the ground, thirty seconds later. It's the same principle as if I throw a rock in outer space, the rock will continue to travel through a straight line forever since there is no gravity acting upon it, and Databook states that the jutsu also lightens the atmosphere around the target so there's no air resistance.
Because of this, Nagato being airborne won't save him from a blitz since Ay can cross incredible distances if he's lightened, and Ay was already shown capable of jumping high into the sky (x)
The lack of dox’s second post doesn’t leave me choice but to believe this shits on Nagato’s flying tactic.
-The gokage start as beans showed. They can jam Nagato’s sensing (which wouldn’t be completely jammed) and also they can block the shared vision with the mist.
-Nagato summons the animals, which would all get shat on, and the exceptions are the bird (which is the only one that gives Nagato a shared vision on the air), Cerberus and the chameleon. The first two would get destroyed by Gaara and Onoki, and the chameleon gets tracked with sensins sand (which if Nagato uses ST to blow away, he dies on the cooldown) and then destroyed by Ay or Gaara.
-Nagato would get overwhelmed as the only think he can do is try to survive Ay’s punch by absorbing it with preta (which is the only argument Dox managed to slightly convince me), but this doesn’t guarantee his survival since he can’t really do anything here.
-Nagato summons the animals, which would all get shat on, and the exceptions are the bird (which is the only one that gives Nagato a shared vision on the air), Cerberus and the chameleon. The first two would get destroyed by Gaara and Onoki, and the chameleon gets tracked with sensins sand (which if Nagato uses ST to blow away, he dies on the cooldown) and then destroyed by Ay or Gaara.
-Nagato would get overwhelmed as the only think he can do is try to survive Ay’s punch by absorbing it with preta (which is the only argument Dox managed to slightly convince me), but this doesn’t guarantee his survival since he can’t really do anything here.
Unorthodox won
Beans destroyed him
