why are people downing Pain

The Demon Hawk

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Years and years later,people still get this wrong

What naruto meant was he could not defeat sasuke with force.this scene was referenced again during the final fight.

Okay, so Naruto meant that he couldn't defeat Sasuke with force, yet he showed his desire to gain Kurama's powers to defeat Sasuke which is all about force. Makes sense.

Naruto > pain >> MS sasuke

Pain > MS Sasuke > SM Naruto
 
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Nick01

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Okay, so Naruto meant that he couldn't defeat Sasuke with force, yet he showed his desire to gain Kurama's powers to defeat Sasuke which is all about force. Makes sense.

If Naruto decided to fight Sasuke right then and there, he would've won easily(only because Sasuke was already exhausted).
If Sasuke was fully healed, it could go either way. Sasuke also showed his desire to transplant Itachi's eyes to defeat Naruto.
 

DrProof

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So is his hearing. What exactly are you trying to say?

....

Six Paths.

....

Nagato

....

Connected by Chakra

....

Connected Optically

....

What one sees

....

They all see.

....

Sharingan Genjutsu

....

One shots

....

Do you understand now?
 

The Demon Hawk

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If Naruto decided to fight Sasuke right then and there, he would've won easily(only because Sasuke was already exhausted).
If Sasuke was fully healed, it could go either way. Sasuke also showed his desire to transplant Itachi's eyes to defeat Naruto.

No, Naruto couldn't have defeated Sasuke right there and then because Obito would've protected Sasuke. Zetsu was there to inform him. If it was a 1v1 fight, then of course Sasuke would lose because he was really exhausted and couldn't use his powers.

If Sasuke was fully healed, he would win because he had more power. MS's powers are stronger and superior to SM. Plus, Susanoo lasts much longer than SM which is only 5 minutes (Naruto didn't have back up clones for additional time and collecting natural energy there would mean certain death), whereas Sasuke who wasn't completely recovered from his fight in the Kage Summit could completely outlast Izanagi's 10 minute time limit.

@bold Irrelevant. BTW, Sasuke decided to transplant Itachi's eyes because he wanted to crush Naruto with all he had i.e full power, not just for defeating Naruto. He could've still defeated Naruto but his victory wouldn't be certain, using Itachi's eyes would assure his victory over Naruto. Whereas, Naruto wanted Kurama to stand a chance against Sasuke. Another reason why Sasuke wanted Itachi's eyes was because he was going blind.
 
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ComplexCity

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....

Six Paths.

....

Nagato

....

Connected by Chakra

....

Connected Optically

....

What one sees

....

They all see.

....

Sharingan Genjutsu

....

One shots

....

Do you understand now?

....


Six paths


......



Nagato



......




Connected by chakra


......



Hears and speaks through the dead bodies


......



Frog song


......



Did not effect Nagato
 

Chaosmark101

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Okay, so Naruto meant that he couldn't defeat Sasuke with force, yet he showed his desire to gain Kurama's powers to defeat Sasuke which is all about force. Makes sense.
Doesn't matter what Naruto said. Sasuke was in no condition to fight after Danzo against fresh Naruto.
Without plot, he would have gotten whooped.

Pain > MS Sasuke > SM Naruto
Pain > War Arc SM Naruto >> MS Sasuke (Danzo fight) = SM Naruto (Pain arc)
 

HENI

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Years and years later,people still get this wrong

What naruto meant was he could not defeat sasuke with force.this scene was referenced again during the final fight.

Getting the Nine Tails power = more force
 

DrProof

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....


Six paths


......



Nagato



......




Connected by chakra


......



Hears and speaks through the dead bodies


......



Frog song


......



Did not effect Nagato

The paths aren't connected audibly. Get your facts straight.
 

The Demon Hawk

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Doesn't matter what Naruto said. Sasuke was in no condition to fight after Danzo against fresh Naruto.
Without plot, he would have gotten whooped.

You didn't understand what I was saying at all. Reread the post.

@bold I'm well aware of that. When was I referring to one specific occasion?

@underlined Of course it matters. You'll understand why after you understand my post.

Pain > War Arc SM Naruto >> MS Sasuke (Danzo fight) = SM Naruto (Pain arc)

Pain >> War Arc SM Naruto >= MS Sasuke (blindness excluded) > Pain Arc SM Naruto.
 

Chaosmark101

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You didn't understand what I was saying at all. Reread the post.

@bold I'm well aware of that. When was I referring to one specific occasion?

@underlined Of course it matters. You'll understand why after you understand my post.
I did you, were referring to the indra/ashura thing right?
that came up immediately after didn't it?

Pain >> War Arc SM Naruto >= MS Sasuke (blindness excluded) > Pain Arc SM Naruto.
What a joke. Pain casually wipes the floor with both o f the guys since CT & CST turns them to paste.

War Arc SM Naruto destroys danzo fight MS Sasuke when he takes a Odama Rasenshuriken to the grill
 

The Demon Hawk

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I did you, were referring to the indra/ashura thing right?
that came up immediately after didn't it?

No, bro. Actually, the other guy was saying that people misunderstood Naruto's words with K11. So he was trying to explain that Naruto implied that he couldn't defeat Sasuke with force when he said that he couldn't defeat Sasuke. I was condemning his claims by saying that Naruto showed his desire to gain Kurama's powers to fight Sasuke which are all about force. So this clearly means that Naruto wasn't saying that he couldn't defeat Sasuke because of force reason, but rather he felt that he didn't have enough power to defeat Sasuke.

What a joke. Pain casually wipes the floor with both o f the guys since CT & CST turns them to paste.

Yes, this goes perfectly along with my equation, doesn't it? Or did I contradict it somehow?

War Arc SM Naruto destroys danzo fight MS Sasuke when he takes a Odama Rasenshuriken to the grill

Sasuke will simply dodge that. It is too slow to hit for the speed Sasuke has.
 
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Chaosmark101

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No, bro. Actually, the other guy was saying that people misunderstood Naruto's words with K11. So he was trying to explain that Naruto implied that he couldn't defeat Sasuke with force when he said that he couldn't defeat Sasuke. I was condemning his claims by saying that Naruto showed his desire to gain Kurama's powers to fight Sasuke which are all about force. So this clearly means that Naruto wasn't saying that he couldn't defeat Sasuke because of force reason, but rather he felt that he didn't have enough power to defeat Sasuke.
Yeah that was kinda stupid I agree.
>can't beat him with strength
> goes on a quest to obtain more strength anyways
#logic


Yes, this goes perfectly along with my equation, doesn't it? Or did I contradict it somehow?
MS Sasuke is not above War Arc SM Naruto ask the vs section.

Sasuke will simply dodge that. It is too slow to hit for the speed Sasuke has.
I'm sorry dude, but I'm calling bullshit here. Madara & Hashirama were well around , Naruto , & it hit them both .
MS Sasuke has no feats saying he can dodge, or react to that sorry :lol
 

The Demon Hawk

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Yeah that was kinda stupid I agree.
>can't beat him with strength
> goes on a quest to obtain more strength anyways
#logic

Exactly.

MS Sasuke is not above War Arc SM Naruto ask the vs section.

I never said he was. Go read the post again.

I'm sorry dude, but I'm calling bullshit here. Madara & Hashirama were well around , Naruto , & it hit them both .

Firstly, it was an unexpected attack which was launched while Madara was distracted fighting Hashirama. Madara didn't see that being made (it's making is a slow process), so that wasted most of the time in preparing to escape.

Secondly, even after he saw that being launched, Madara couldn't escape because he was binded by the wooden dragon (most dominant reason).

Thirdly, Madara was an Edo, so he wasn't going to die anyway. So that hitting him wasn't something Madara was worried about too much.

I'm sorry, but you just saw the obvious and missed the details and viable reasons, but my vision and comprehension isn't that limited.

MS Sasuke has no feats saying he can dodge, or react to that sorry :lol

The time it takes to make one of those (it's a slow process) and the time is takes to throw it and reach its target (it isn't fast) gives enough time for someone as fast as Sasuke to escape. His footspeed is enough for that, but additionally, he can also summon his hawk for getting away.

Secondly, Sasuke can use his hawk to stay in air, due to which Naruto will have to launch it in air and the risk of it exploding would be negated because it can't explode in air. And without it exploding, dodging it is very easy.

Moreover, while Naruto is creating the Odama Rasenshuriken, Sasuke can quickly shoot a Susanoo Arrow at him before that (which is WAY faster to be made and reach its target than Odama FRS), then Naruto will have only two options. Either he has to disturb the making of Rasenshuriken while simultaneously wasting all the chakra he used and dodge Sasuke's Arrow, or he has to take the Susanoo Arrow and die.

In addition to that, Sasuke can throw a Susanoo Arrow at Odama Rasenshuriken and make it explode on impact much farther away from himself thus protecting himself from it.

Or maybe, Sasuke can even throw a Susanoo Arrow on Odama Rasenshuriken while it is being made, and make it explode there and then taking Naruto within its reach and killing him.

You think something as slow and restricting (for Naruto) as Odama Rasenshuriken is a good thing to be used against someone as fast and versatile as Sasuke? Then you're heavily delusional.
 
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Chaosmark101

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I never said he was. Go read the post again.
The hawk gets FRS'd too. It has no feats better than

Firstly, it was an unexpected attack which was launched while Madara was distracted fighting Hashirama. Madara didn't see that being made (it's making is a slow process), so that wasted most of the time in preparing to escape.

Secondly, even after he saw that being launched, Madara couldn't escape because he was binded by the wooden dragon (most dominant reason).

Thirdly, Madara was an Edo, so he wasn't going to die anyway. So that hitting him wasn't something Madara was worried about too much.

I'm sorry, but you just saw the obvious and missed the details and viable reasons, but my vision and comprehension isn't that limited.
:lol :lol :lol
1. It being unexpected, is irrelevant when edo madara himself has no feats supporting him dodging an attack as quick as that. Hashirama . Once he .
2.Irrelevant
3.Well obviously :rolleyes: It still did it's job stunning edo madara long enough for the sealing team to get there.

Any living person would die from that jutsu.

The time it takes to make one of those (it's a slow process) and the time is takes to throw it and reach its target (it isn't fast) gives enough time for someone as fast as Sasuke to escape. His footspeed is enough for that, but additionally, he can also summon his hawk for getting away.
Wank & no scans why am I not surprised? You & me are friends bro, but your gonna have to stop BS'ing yourself.

Who says creating Odama Rasenshuriken is slow, you?
The very moment Naruto scaled the God tree, , the very next page , & Its once Kakashi finished . Considering the Huge distance it travels & Its enormous AOE. He dies a terrible death, do not deny that

Secondly, Sasuke can use his hawk to stay in air, due to which Naruto will have to launch it in air and the risk of it exploding would be negated because it can't explode in air. And without it exploding, dodging it is very easy.
already addressed above that the hawk has 0 feats of being able to dodge FRS or Odama Rasenshuriken.

Not to mention Naruto has 3+ boss summons under his belt in the form of Giant toads. Which can easily restrain the bird with their tounges, or chop it up.

Moreover, while Naruto is creating the Odama Rasenshuriken, Sasuke can quickly shoot a Susanoo Arrow at him before that (which is WAY faster to be made and reach its target than Odama FRS), then Naruto will have only two options. Either he has to disturb the making of Rasenshuriken while simultaneously wasting all the chakra he used and dodge Sasuke's Arrow, or he has to take the Susanoo Arrow and die.
I LOVE THIS ONE LOLOLOL. The only times MS Sasuke has shot Susanoo arrow were at Danzo & Kakashi. both ninja are slower than pain arc SM Naruto, do not have reactions on par with pain arc or war arc sm naruto. Too put this into perspective
SM Kabuto was able to from EMS Sasuke. SM Kabuto being slower, not by too much, but slower than SM Naruto. EG. Susanoo arrows are Lol'd at

In addition to that, Sasuke can throw a Susanoo Arrow at Odama Rasenshuriken and make it explode on impact much farther away from himself thus protecting himself from it.
Wouldn't get the chance, Odama FRS would likely eradicate the susanoo arrow anyways.

Or maybe, Sasuke can even throw a Susanoo Arrow on Odama Rasenshuriken while it is being made, and make it explode there and then taking Naruto within its reach and killing him.
Again, not happening.

You think something as slow and restricting (for Naruto) as Odama Rasenshuriken is a good thing to be used against someone as fast and versatile as Sasuke? Then you're heavily delusional.
:lol

War arc SM Naruto creates 2 kage level SM bunshin to fight MS Sasuke @ CQC. What happens there is irrelevant, most likely they overwhelm him if he doesn't use Susanoo & Amaterasu. But while they keep him busy SM Naruto has already prepared Odama Rasenshuriken & He nukes Sasuke GG
He beats MS Sasuke low difficulty-mid difficulty. The power gap is too large.
 
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The Demon Hawk

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The hawk gets FRS'd too. It has no feats better than

You don't need any speed feats to dodge FRS in air. All it requires is simple air maneuvering and FRS will pass away. As I said, FRS won't explode air so there is no need of escaping from its blast range.

:lol :lol :lol
1. It being unexpected, is irrelevant when edo madara himself has no feats supporting him dodging an attack as quick as that. Hashirama . Once he .

It's not irrelevant. Madara could back some distance while it was being prepared, but it being unexpected didn't provide Madara the chance, and that's aside from being binded by the wooden dragon. Also, FRS isn't that fast.

@bold So now you're calculating time from manga scans? What the hell, bro? Manga scans don't show things in motion, so you can't find out "How long?" from scans. It actually took more time than what is evident by scans.

2.Irrelevant

How is that irrelevant? How is a hurdle in Madara's motion (being binded) irrelevant when it comes to movement and dodging? You're being pure ignorant right now.

3.Well obviously :rolleyes: It still did it's job stunning edo madara long enough for the sealing team to get there.

At least you get that. You should also understand that when a person is binded by something, he can't move i.e. he can't dodge or escape either.

Any living person would die from that jutsu.

Yes, they would if they didn't have a defense strong enough or they don't evade it.

Wank & no scans why am I not surprised? You & me are friends bro, but your gonna have to stop BS'ing yourself.

Who says creating Odama Rasenshuriken is slow, you?

No, not me. The manga does.

The very moment Naruto scaled the God tree, , the very next page , & Its once Kakashi finished .

Dude, how come you aren't levelheaded enough to understand that time cannot be calculated from manga scans because it does not show things in motion? All of the above reasoning is irrelevant and false because time can't be calculated that way.

Considering the Huge distance it travels & Its enormous AOE. He dies a terrible death, do not deny that

It's logically deniable. Your calculation of time using manga scans is making your argument fallacious.

already addressed above that the hawk has 0 feats of being able to dodge FRS or Odama Rasenshuriken.

I also told you that how he will dodge FRS or Odama FRS (see first quote reply).

Not to mention Naruto has 3+ boss summons under his belt in the form of Giant toads. Which can easily restrain the bird with their tounges, or chop it up.

The hawk has to be in range of the toads for that to happen. And going out of the range is not a big problem for the hawk.

I LOVE THIS ONE LOLOLOL. The only times MS Sasuke has shot Susanoo arrow were at Danzo & Kakashi. both ninja are slower than pain arc SM Naruto, do not have reactions on par with pain arc or war arc sm naruto. Too put this into perspective
SM Kabuto was able to from EMS Sasuke. SM Kabuto being slower, not by too much, but slower than SM Naruto. EG. Susanoo arrows are Lol'd at

You didn't understand jack about what I was saying, right? When did I say Naruto can't dodge Susanoo Arrow? I said Naruto can dodge Susanoo Arrow but he has to disturb the creation of Odama FRS while simultaneously wasting the chakra he utilized. Because if he stays there, he'll die by the arrow.

Wouldn't get the chance, Odama FRS would likely eradicate the susanoo arrow anyways.

Yes, that's what I'm saying. As soon as Odama FRS comes in contact with Susanoo Arrow, it will blast. So Sasuke can use Susanoo Arrow to make Odama FRS blast at a farther distance making himself safe from its explosion because Susanoo Arrow will take the explosion instead and get destroyed.

Again, not happening.

:lol

Why not happening? What's out of possibility here?

War arc SM Naruto creates 2 kage level SM bunshin to fight MS Sasuke @ CQC. What happens there is irrelevant, most likely they overwhelm him if he doesn't use Susanoo & Amaterasu. But while they keep him busy SM Naruto has already prepared Odama Rasenshuriken & He nukes Sasuke GG

Susanoo will most likely destroy those SM clones at CQC, it has much higher raw power. And if Sasuke has any problem with those clones, he will avoid CQC by leaping into the air with his hawk.

And I already told you how FRS gets countered in air, so FRS also won't be able to land on him. So your speculative counters can't really happen.

Plus, Sasuke has more than one strategy to outlast SM. As soon as Naruto enters Sage Mode, Sasuke will fly far away with his hawk where Naruto's attacks won't reach and wait there until Naruto's Sage Mode inevitably runs out. He'll do this a couple of times until Naruto gets exhausted and loses chakra due to entering Sage Mode for several times. And if Naruto uses clones to collect natural energy for him, then he can't use clones for fighting in the battlefield.

He beats MS Sasuke low difficulty-mid difficulty. The power gap is too large.

That's only going by your assumptions and defected logic.
 

Chaosmark101

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You don't need any speed feats to dodge FRS in air. All it requires is simple air maneuvering and FRS will pass away. As I said, FRS won't explode air so there is no need of escaping from its blast range.
Gonna need some proof that he'll be able to do that, & you completely ignored my post regarding the hawk dodging it.


It's not irrelevant. Madara could back some distance while it was being prepared, but it being unexpected didn't provide Madara the chance, and that's aside from being binded by the wooden dragon. Also, FRS isn't that fast.
It is irrelevant, because your just tacking on shit to say.

@bold So now you're calculating time from manga scans? What the hell, bro? Manga scans don't show things in motion, so you can't find out "How long?" from scans. It actually took more time than what is evident by scans.
Smh. If Naruto threw the Odama Rasenshuriken 200 meters away from one page & it hit them both the next page it's fast end of story. Neither even knew it was coming.

How is that irrelevant? How is a hurdle in Madara's motion (being binded) irrelevant when it comes to movement and dodging? You're being pure ignorant right now.
addressed above, this is besides War arc SM naruto vs ms sasuke


At least you get that. You should also understand that when a person is binded by something, he can't move i.e. he can't dodge or escape either.[/QUOTE] quite changing the subject

Yes, they would if they didn't have a defense strong enough or they don't evade it.
MS Sasuke has no Susanoo that would let him live that Odama FRS. A regular senpo FRS destroys versions 1-3

No, not me. The manga does.
your blatantly denying the manga here pal.

Dude, how come you aren't levelheaded enough to understand that time cannot be calculated from manga scans because it does not show things in motion? All of the above reasoning is irrelevant and false because time can't be calculated that way.
Literally one page flip & they were hit. Stop denying it

It's logically deniable. Your calculation of time using manga scans is making your argument fallacious.
very Next page bruh

I also told you that how he will dodge FRS or Odama FRS (see first quote reply).
Bruh you didn't show me anything! You just said "Sasuke will maneuver in the air" That's some BS! Especially if the FRS is aimed at the ground, it'll explode on impact & here is the AOE to shut up your nonsense.

You must be registered for see images

The hawk has to be in range of the toads for that to happen. And going out of the range is not a big problem for the hawk.
Once again you failed to provide any proof.

You didn't understand jack about what I was saying, right? When did I say Naruto can't dodge Susanoo Arrow? I said Naruto can dodge Susanoo Arrow but he has to disturb the creation of Odama FRS while simultaneously wasting the chakra he utilized. Because if he stays there, he'll die by the arrow.
He's not gonna know which Naruto is the real Naruto. & SM Naruto bunshin throwing FRS, Cho odama Rasengan & frog katas at him will keep him busy for his inevitable death by Odama FRS.


Yes, that's what I'm saying. As soon as Odama FRS comes in contact with Susanoo Arrow, it will blast. So Sasuke can use Susanoo Arrow to make Odama FRS blast at a farther distance making himself safe from its explosion because Susanoo Arrow will take the explosion instead and get destroyed.
Please did you just say Susanoo arrow would cause Odama FRS to explode :lol The microscopic wind blades shit on it without enton. Come on



Why not happening? What's out of possibility here?
Because Naruto's Fire power is much >>> Danzo's thus hI'm launching an offensive while needing breathing room is fallacious.

Susanoo will most likely destroy those SM clones at CQC, it has much higher raw power. And if Sasuke has any problem with those clones, he will avoid CQC by leaping into the air with his hawk.
Not before it's GG by Odama Rasenshuriken, also I'd like too see Susanoo tank .

And I already told you how FRS gets countered in air, so FRS also won't be able to land on him. So your speculative counters can't really happen.
you provided no proof that'd work so it's merely a baseless counter.

Plus, Sasuke has more than one strategy to outlast SM. As soon as Naruto enters Sage Mode, Sasuke will fly far away with his hawk where Naruto's attacks won't reach and wait there until Naruto's Sage Mode inevitably runs out. He'll do this a couple of times until Naruto gets exhausted and loses chakra due to entering Sage Mode for several times. And if Naruto uses clones to collect natural energy for him, then he can't use clones for fighting in the battlefield.
So you agree to that his only chance of winning is to run away? :lol Shit your making this easy on me man :lmao. Not to mention this provides an opportunity for Naruto to gather more Natural Energy, summon his toad army + ma & Pa etc. Toad confrontation chant will get prepped, & that'll be GG.

You know aside from Odama FRS GG.

That's only going by your assumptions and defected logic.
Nope that's going by the manga, you like your fav to much to admit he's outclassed here. You even believed he was equal with KCM Naruto! LOLOL
 

shelke

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Sasuke easily wins in the same scenario if put before Pein in lieu of Naruto. I already explained that in another thread.
 
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