When I really think about Obito's plan.

[VongolaX]

And then went straight back to the Rin dying

Also Madara didn't start thinking in the whole It till and actually wanted Harashima way to be true until he read the tablet BZ Altered

The whole tablet thing started here:

Spoiler

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Before the fight with Hashirama, and the death of his brother was just a simple reminder of why he should IT the world as well. Sasuke didn't immediately started planning to takeover the world right after Itachi died, he starting talking about if right after the Kaguya fight finished. Sasuke went straight back to the Itachi dying business after they just finish saving the world from obito, madara, and kaguya.

Same as Obito in this regard, he didn't go straight into taking over the world after Rin died. He listened to what Madara had to say and also read the stone tablet like madara before challenging the shinobi world.

Spoiler

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[Diabound]

What a hypocrite. Dimiss my argument in the top paragraph for applying real life moral concepts and then you do just that in the second.
Explain how Kakashi casually killing for a paycheck is better than Obito killing to establish world peace.

-Sigh-

Spoiler

And how the hell is it being hypocritical when I told you it's a matter of perspective? :lol You gave your perspective and I simply gave you mine, but I clearly said there is no right or wrong answer - hence my statement, "it's all a matter of perspective."

That fact that you want to keep arguing about this means you're nothing but an arrogant fool, as if the two of us could settle an intricate issue like this with varying opinions. Why don't we discuss immigration or healthcare while we're at it? Lmao.

Maybe it's my fault. I suppose that instead of giving you my stance on this issue I should've just told you to **** off and take this shit to the General Discussion.

How Obito feels on the matter:

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Obito fully aware of Kakashi's reputation encourages him to become Hokage:

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Riker Slade on scene:

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Yeah, good luck trying to convince everyone that your stance on the matter is the correct one, buddy, but no one else cares - not even the characters in question, so why chastise people for it?

 

[Punk Hazard]

-Sigh-

Spoiler

And how the hell is it being hypocritical when I told you it's a matter of perspective? :lol You gave your perspective and I simply gave you mine, but I clearly said there is no right or wrong answer - hence my statement, "it's all a matter of perspective."

That fact that you want to keep arguing about this means you're nothing but an arrogant fool, as if the two of us could settle an intricate issue like this with varying opinions. Why don't we discuss immigration or healthcare while we're at it? Lmao.

Maybe it's my fault. I suppose that instead of giving you my stance on this issue I should've just told you to **** off and take this shit to the General Discussion.

How Obito feels on the matter:

You must be registered for see images

Obito fully aware of Kakashi's reputation encourages him to become Hokage:

You must be registered for see images

Riker Slade on scene:

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Yeah, good luck trying to convince everyone that your stance on the matter is the correct one, buddy, but no one else cares - not even the characters in question, so why chastise people for it?

You're driveling now. You chatised me for forming my opinion based on real life morals, but then went on to do the same in your second paragraph.

Like I said before, the members of Akatsuki excluding Pein, Tobi and Itachi to some degree feel justified in their actions. Kisame feels as though his crimes make him a good person. If Obito feeling like he is a criminal who did means he is, then Kisame feeling like he's not such a bad guy after for his crimes means he's a pretty good guy.

Nope, I don't think all murder is equal. That's why I asked you to explain how Kakashi killing for a paycheck is better than Obito killing for world peace. But, I suppose that went completely over your head. In all reality, Kakashi is worse because he killed simply because those were his orders and it was how he earned his income. Obito, as an adult, killed because it put him further to accomplishing world peace. Which one is actually the bad guy?

The reason I am applying real life morals is because, if you bothered to read my original post properly, I was addressing not whether or not Obito was right in the context of the story and portrayal, I was addressing the way people sympathize with Kakashi and chastise Obito when that's rather backwards. The reason I am using real life moral standards is because I'm addressing the real life emotions of real people. But I suppose that also went over your head so you can focus on your own arrogant foolishness.

 

[leezagboola]

Yeah it was lame, sure Rin may have died but back then the uchiha clan was still thriving and doing fine. Why didn't Obito say
"thank you for reviving me Madara, I will come back to help you, but first I'm gonna go see my family and let everyone know i'm alive. I know they must be very upset and worried."
Instead lives the rest of his life in a cave, never once trying to return home.

And Rin was waiting for him? Was Rin in love with him aswell? Nothing made me think Rin was in love with him and would wait 20 years for him.

 

[Diabound]

You're driveling now. You chatised me for forming my opinion based on real life morals, but then went on to do the same in your second paragraph.

Wrong. I chastised you because you brought forth one side of the coin of an issue regarding real life morals. My second paragraph brought forth the other side of the coin - and I said there is no right or wrong answer meaning it's foolish to argue about it on here, which was the point, but I guess that went over your head.

Like I said before, the members of Akatsuki excluding Pein, Tobi and Itachi to some degree feel justified in their actions. Kisame feels as though his crimes make him a good person. If Obito feeling like he is a criminal who did means he is, then Kisame feeling like he's not such a bad guy after for his crimes means he's a pretty good guy. .

Nope, I don't think all murder is equal. That's why I asked you to explain how Kakashi killing for a paycheck is better than Obito killing for world peace. But, I suppose that went completely over your head. In all reality, Kakashi is worse because he killed simply because those were his orders and it was how he earned his income. Obito, as an adult, killed because it put him further to accomplishing world peace. Which one is actually the bad guy?

The reason I am applying real life morals is because, if you bothered to read my original post properly, I was addressing not whether or not Obito was right in the context of the story and portrayal, I was addressing the way people sympathize with Kakashi and chastise Obito when that's rather backwards. The reason I am using real life moral standards is because I'm addressing the real life emotions of real people. But I suppose that also went over your head so you can focus on your own arrogant foolishness.

I get what you're saying. Obito thinking of himself as a criminal while feeling no such way toward Kakashi isn't evidence that Kakashi is not himself a "criminal". I'll give you this point, but the rest - Kakashi being worse than Obito, is your opinion.

I told you in my second post we should agree this is a matter of perspective/opinion and there is no right answer, but you want to keep arguing about why your opinion is correct when there's no correct answer here. Not to mention, people don't apply these morals into this manga as you do.

 

[Natsu Shazneel]

Yeah it was lame, sure Rin may have died but back then the uchiha clan was still thriving and doing fine. Why didn't Obito say
"thank you for reviving me Madara, I will come back to help you, but first I'm gonna go see my family and let everyone know i'm alive. I know they must be very upset and worried."
Instead lives the rest of his life in a cave, never once trying to return home.

And Rin was waiting for him? Was Rin in love with him aswell? Nothing made me think Rin was in love with him and would wait 20 years for him.

@bold: He did want to leave the cave to tell everyone he is alive. But Madara never allowed him to. Instead he kept him locked up in the cave trying to destroy every hope he had left. After he saw his own friend (who he trusted Rin with) Kill the love of his life. How could he go back to the same system he despised so much for allowing it to happen? That was basically the last of his hopes left, that got crushed away due to his friend.

 

[Atari]

No, I don't support it. However, his decision makes sense. Complete sense. It's not funny. People die every day. But it's not every day you lose someone you love so deeply. He lost Rin, and he thought he could make the world a better place with IT. His decision was an immature one, but for that, you can pin the blame on Madara for twisting him.

Nah you clearly just don't get it. He wasn't doing it for revenge. In his mind the world is ****ed up. Anyone dying in that world is irrelevant as it is already a ****ed up world regardless. He is trying to create unlimited bliss. Not a complicated concept to grasp :eww:. It took rin dying for him to come to this conclusion. Rin isn't the reason she is the Catalyst.

It's called moving on. I've lost people and probably all of us have but that's no reason to forsaken the world or even destroy it. No one should be that selfish.

Uchiha are the ones that turn love into hatred. Do not compare Obito to Kakashi in that aspect. The stronger pain is, the more hatred it brings to the Uchiha.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Wrong. I chastised you because you brought forth one side of the coin of an issue regarding real life morals. My second paragraph brought forth the other side of the coin - and I said there is no right or wrong answer meaning it's foolish to argue about it on here, which was the point, but I guess that went over your head.



I get what you're saying. Obito thinking of himself as a criminal while feeling no such way toward Kakashi isn't evidence that Kakashi is not himself a "criminal". I'll give you this point, but the rest - Kakashi being worse than Obito, is your opinion.

I told you in my second post we should agree this is a matter of perspective/opinion and there is no right answer, but you want to keep arguing about why your opinion is correct when there's no correct answer here. Not to mention, people don't apply these morals into this manga as you do.

That's why I asked you your opinion and perspective. If you can't explain your opinion or viewpoint with a valid reasoning, then it's a faulty one. Seeing which is which is the major point of a debate and many discussions.

That's kinda my point. The way people leave out these morals to defend and sympathize with Kakashi is what I'm pointing out

 

[Diabound]

That's why I asked you your opinion and perspective. If you can't explain your opinion or viewpoint with a valid reasoning, then it's a faulty one. Seeing which is which is the major point of a debate and many discussions.

Which I have neglected to do because I don't see the point in arguing over topics like this, unless it's a school essay. To me it would be like discussing who is better suited to run the US: Democrats or Republicans. We would get nowhere.

That's kinda my point. The way people leave out these morals to defend and sympathize with Kakashi is what I'm pointing out

And my point is that you can't really blame them when the manga, or characters themselves do not acknowledge this issue. Even if the issue was acknowledged in the manga or by the fans, you still wouldn't be right, as there's another side to this issue here.

You're thinking outside the box.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Which I have neglected to do because I don't see the point in arguing over topics like this, unless it's a school essay. To me it would be like discussing who is better suited to run the US: Democrats or Republicans. We would get nowhere.




And my point is that you can't really blame them when the manga, or characters themselves do not acknowledge this issue. Even if the issue was acknowledged in the manga or by the fans, you still wouldn't be right, as there's another side to this issue here.

You're thinking outside the box.

And that's the issue. You called me a fool when you really just don't wanna participate. Which makes your replies even more nonsensical.

Nope, I can. That's kinda what critical thinking and analysis is for and about. Oh? And what side is that?

That's such a major flaw, not just going with Obito is good because Kishi tried, and failed, to make it that way.

 

[Diabound]

And that's the issue. You called me a fool when you really just don't wanna participate. Which makes your replies even more nonsensical.

1. Why should I participate when I already told you multiple times this is a matter of opinion and we won't come to a definative conclusion, to which you haven't denied? To humor your ego? :lol

2. I never called you a fool for your opinion, in fact, since the beginning I've been saying you're not right or wrong, so how can I call you a fool for your opinion on this matter? You probably misunderstood me.

Nope, I can. That's kinda what critical thinking and analysis is for and about. Oh? And what side is that?

But why do it here? Why try to force your opinion: "Kakashi is a worse criminal than Obito, and fans need to realize this" down the throats of other people, when it is just that - your opinion?

If you want to make a thread discussing this matter, that's a different story, but you came here, quoted -Punk- on why his way of thinking was wrong, it wasn't, it was just different from yours.

 

[Punk Hazard]

1. Why should I participate when I already told you multiple times this is a matter of opinion and we won't come to a definative conclusion, to which you haven't denied? To humor your ego? :lol

2. I never called you a fool for your opinion, in fact, since the beginning I've been saying you're not right or wrong, so how can I call you a fool for your opinion on this matter? You probably misunderstood me.



But why do it here? Why try to force your opinion: "Kakashi is a worse criminal than Obito, and fans need to realize this" down the throats of other people, when it is just that - your opinion?

If you want to make a thread discussing this matter, that's a different story, but you came here, quoted -Punk- on why his way of thinking was wrong, it wasn't, it was just different from yours.

You don't wanna participate but you keep replying. Makes sense.

You I literally called me a fool a few posts ago.

Because this discussion is about Obito's motives and actions, and someone posted their opinion on it and I replied because it's a discussion thread? Which means you post here because you want to discuss the topic, which is what I was doing? I'm not forcing my opinion on anyone. Someone posted theirs, I replied with mine, mine was challenged and I defended. That's kinda what discussions are for.

So? I quoted someone challenging their opinion and reasoning as you did to me. Your problem is?

 

[WalksInShadows]

in retrospect, Madara just did a fantastic job in gaming Obito into going dark side. He took everything Obito loved and maneuvered everything and almost everybody into position to where he would come to have an equally profound hatred for everything.

To be fair, starting the war was actually about the Gokage's refusal to hand over Bee and Naruto. But on the other hand, Obito didn't do himself any favors as a character by using what happened to Rin as a means of validating everything he did and what was planning to do.

He thought he'd be making the world better. He was young when his loved ones died, he had nobody, and was twisted by Madara. Did you forget Tobirama's lecture on how Uchiha can't move on?

Tobirama's statements about the Sharingan and an Uchiha's emotions were actually about the ones who were liable to self destruct due to an inability to control their anger. It's pretty unrealistic to expect anybody to just move on after losing a loved one, whether they're Uchiha or not.

 

[Diabound]

@Riker Slade

Then this was all a misunderstanding. It seemed to me you were shoving your opinion down people's throats and acting like yours was the correct one.

Continuing to insist on discussing the matter after I told you there was no right or wrong conclusion just made things worse. I apologize.

 

[PlatinumTitan]

Didn't know 12 years Olds knew what love is

Some do. You underestimate how quickly some children mature. I fell in love for the first time at 13. It's been 3 years, and I still think about her.

 

[Demonic.]

So if I go on a massacre to spare as many people as I can from living in this rotten world i am better than soldiers shooting ISIS fodders because *suspense* it is the thought that counts? Interesting.

By the way is the mass extinction of the human population really peace?

peace

1. Freedom from disturbance

2. Living in harmony

If the world is caught in a genjutsu no one will reproduce = extinction. How peaceful :yayy:

 

[~Ethereal~]

Laughing is an understatement, it makes your brain freeze just thinking about Obito's goals. :WHAT: