[VS] Danzo vs Kakashi

[Apêx1]

You asked me and I provided them. Your just putting chakra control feats on make believe standards to determine Kakashi has the chakra control that Danzo doesnt have.

Whos twisting what? The scan you used: "spatial recomposition" = Rasengan. That itself is A rank. The problem was adding Raiton to it for Kakashi. Thats the context.

That's a real nice lie you have there. You did not provide me a single scan of chakra control, not one. And lol, Kakashi has far more chakra control feats then Danzo could dream of, stop grasping at straws. Bring me SCANS of his chakra control AND his proficiency with the Sharingan or CONCEDE. Last time I will argue this with you.

[

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]. The 4th produced the Rasengan which requires chakra control to the point where it is A rank. Kakashi can copy it at just that level. Meaning Kakashi can copy jutsu that are A rank or below. Adding Raiton to Rasengan makes it S rank in the same way adding Futon to it makes FRS S rank. Kakashi clearly said he cannot copy jutsu at that level.

Being able to spam now doesnt change the fact that it still takes a toll on him even War arc he needed to recover and had Kurama support. Hashirama's cells isn't completely irrelevant since manga disagrees[

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"]1[/URL]]. Danzo had the orginal cells while Obito had to tinkered Zetsu cells.

No, having his 3T active does not take a toll on him in the War Arc as far as I am concerned. He needed to recover? BM Naruto recovered twice, and Bee recovered twice. Since when is Kakashi an exception? He doesn't even have Biju reserves so if anything he's the one who should be recovering 3 times. And not sure how Danzo having the real Hashirama cells is any different then something that was cultivated out of them.

Baseless:

Hasnt shown superior in Genjutsu
Hasnt shown precog being no different
Hasnt shown MS usege being superior

I didnt say he copied anything. I mention that to be able to use Mokuton, one has to be able to manipulate both Earth and Water style, which Danzo did.

WHAT???????
1. Danzo has not shown Sharingan Genjutsu barring KA, which is the most powerful Genjutsu in the manga and even Konohmaru could use given he attained the eye. NO Genjutsu feats there. Meanwhile Kakashi was on par with a Genjutsu user like Obito who could control the every move of a Jinchuriki Mizukage

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2. Kakashi has shown the ability to fight v2 Jinchuriki's which Naruto failed against terribly. Kakashi has shown the ability to fight Itachi without getting raped. Kakashi was fighting Obito. What exactly warrants Danzo's pre-cog being this incredible to see things that KCM Naruto could barely react to?

3. Danzo has shown one usage of KA. Kakashi has pretty much been using Kamui at an extreme level, to the point where Sharingan users could no longer notice the speed of his Kamui [

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Yes, but to what extent can he use Mokuton? I'm not giving him random feats that he hasn't shown, the only thing he can use is the Mokuton he released from his right arm. And no, any Mokuton he could use would be 1/1000000th of the original's power.

Baseless? Read DB, his Futon are B ranked.

>Base on the reason of not showing copying feats excludes it?
> Lol, shown every feat a Sharingan can do and secret Sharingan ability bar copying somehow = no Sharingan feats
> Base on make believe requirements
> above.

And? That means his chakra control is decent, he should be using A rank ninjutsu, while Kakashi is using S rank ninjutsu. But ony because he can use S rank jutsu doesn't mean he can copy S rank jutsu, because those jutsu require training to master. Kakashi can copy A rank with a single viewing of the jutsu - no training. No, he's only shown KA and Izanagi, no real Sharingan feats, just abilities which are either natural given by the Sharingan (all MS jutsu are) and Izanagi, which is the only reason he wanted those Sharingan's.
Once again, show me his Chakra control and actual Sharingan abilities or concede.

Then this out of context to support your point much? Nothing implied it takes small amount of chakra control. How does not being able to control it with low chakra means a failure in chakra control? Even on his death bed? Danzo still implied under his condition he can still used the Sharingan. Use its precog to read through Chidori strike and was contemplating who to use KA on.

That wasn't directed at you. But no, no pre-cog against Chidori, it was a sucidial attack, using pre-cog means he'd have evaded it and countered. Mind you, if you look again Danzo's eye was patched up the entire fight.

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Meaning he doesn't use his eye because it doesn't grant him much besides KA.

 

[Oblivionx]

the only way kakashi can possibly lose this is because of chakra reserves but if he has war arc reserves he wins...! he is better than sasuke at taijutsu and is more agile, experienced and intelligent...! the fight needs to last ten minutes and i don't think MS sasuke had more reserves than war arc kakashi so kakashi wins mid to high diff since sasuke won high diff... and kakashi has ten minutes to figure out izanagi, if sasuke could do it then so can kakashi... kakashi already had more knowledge about uchiha techs than MS sasuke as he actually lived with the clan...

 

[Brother Numpsay]

That's a real nice lie you have there. You did not provide me a single scan of chakra control, not one. And lol, Kakashi has far more chakra control feats then Danzo could dream of, stop grasping at straws. Bring me SCANS of his chakra control AND his proficiency with the Sharingan or CONCEDE. Last time I will argue this with you.

1. Used a stronger version of Four Symbols Seal (S rank) on his death bed via Reverse Four Symbols Seal. And yes he pre activated it, so dont bring up that this jutsu works when his a corpse.
2. Already addressed wielding far more Sharingan then Kakashi, which requires more chakra control.
3. Already addressed being capable of manipulating Hashirama cells, which Obito states isnt easy to control.
4. Can use 3T Sharingan usage like any other Sharingan wielder [

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5. Can use MS, and knew about it, which is why he stole it. Way before Kakashi learned that he had a MS ability.

[

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]. The 4th produced the Rasengan which requires chakra control to the point where it is A rank. Kakashi can copy it at just that level. Meaning Kakashi can copy jutsu that are A rank or below. Adding Raiton to Rasengan makes it S rank in the same way adding Futon to it makes FRS S rank. Kakashi clearly said he cannot copy jutsu at that level.

Lol stop. Kakashi can't copy without a Sharingan. He learned from Minato the same way Minato taught Jiraya and Jiraya to Naruto. And Sasuke learning Chidori from Kakashi. Copy in that context doesnt mean what your implying. We know Kakashi can copy A rank because he copied Great Waterfall, not because he can use Rasengan. He learn Rasengan so hopfully he can surpass Minato in chakra manipluation but failed and end up making another S rank jutsu with nature[

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] Stop making some make believe chakra control standards that makes you think Danzo can't copy these element A-B rank jutsu.

No, having his 3T active does not take a toll on him in the War Arc as far as I am concerned. He needed to recover? BM Naruto recovered twice, and Bee recovered twice. Since when is Kakashi an exception? He doesn't even have Biju reserves so if anything he's the one who should be recovering 3 times. And not sure how Danzo having the real Hashirama cells is any different then something that was cultivated out of them.

I was exaggerating. I was making that point that Kakashi only is capable of wielding 1 Sharingan by himself. Danzo can hold 11.

Hashirama face plant is the original source of his cells, Zetsu just carries a diluted version.

WHAT???????
1. Danzo has not shown Sharingan Genjutsu barring KA, which is the most powerful Genjutsu in the manga and even Konohmaru could use given he attained the eye. NO Genjutsu feats there. Meanwhile Kakashi was on par with a Genjutsu user like Obito who could control the every move of a Jinchuriki Mizukage

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2. Kakashi has shown the ability to fight v2 Jinchuriki's which Naruto failed against terribly. Kakashi has shown the ability to fight Itachi without getting raped. Kakashi was fighting Obito. What exactly warrants Danzo's pre-cog being this incredible to see things that KCM Naruto could barely react to?

3. Danzo has shown one usage of KA. Kakashi has pretty much been using Kamui at an extreme level, to the point where Sharingan users could no longer notice the speed of his Kamui [

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Yes, but to what extent can he use Mokuton? I'm not giving him random feats that he hasn't shown, the only thing he can use is the Mokuton he released from his right arm. And no, any Mokuton he could use would be 1/1000000th of the original's power.

1. Lol so Danzo can use its MS ability but can't use a weaker version via 3T, correct? @Bold, what?
2. No idea what manga your reading, Naruto was fighting along side and your saying his superior then KCM Naruto? Just more make believe stuff. Both Kakashi and Danzo are the same tier based on their reaction against Susanoo arrow. And Danzo wasn't able to activate Shisui's eye yet for precog support so nothing implies inferiority
3. Not relevant. KA doesn't function like Ammy and Kamui. Its works by accessing a stronger variant of an near-unbreakable visual genjutsu and needs a decade to do again. Doesnt matter who you are.

Not relevant. No one is giving him random feats. I am going by what the manga implies. To use Mokuton you have to be efficient in utilizing Suiton and Doton. Then combine it to make Mokuton. I was implying for Danzo to produce Mokuton, he has to be capable of using Suiton chakra and Doton chakra. Doesn't matter if the source of Mokuton is coming from the cells he is manipulating. The Mokuton part is irrelevant to my point.

And? That means his chakra control is decent, he should be using A rank ninjutsu, while Kakashi is using S rank ninjutsu. But ony because he can use S rank jutsu doesn't mean he can copy S rank jutsu, because those jutsu require training to master. Kakashi can copy A rank with a single viewing of the jutsu - no training. No, he's only shown KA and Izanagi, no real Sharingan feats, just abilities which are either natural given by the Sharingan (all MS jutsu are) and Izanagi, which is the only reason he wanted those Sharingan's.
Once again, show me his Chakra control and actual Sharingan abilities or concede.

Decent? That points his chakra control the same as any Kage level. And is already capable of using S rank jutsus. Everything thing else is a waste of replying to.

That wasn't directed at you. But no, no pre-cog against Chidori, it was a sucidial attack, using pre-cog means he'd have evaded it and countered. Mind you, if you look again Danzo's eye was patched up the entire fight.

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Meaning he doesn't use his eye because it doesn't grant him much besides KA.

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].... inb4 eye deteriorated excuses

 

[Apêx1]

1. Used a stronger version of Four Symbols Seal (S rank) on his death bed via Reverse Four Symbols Seal. And yes he pre activated it, so dont bring up that this jutsu works when his a corpse.
2. Already addressed wielding far more Sharingan then Kakashi, which requires more chakra control.
3. Already addressed being capable of manipulating Hashirama cells, which Obito states isnt easy to control.
4. Can use 3T Sharingan usage like any other Sharingan wielder [

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5. Can use MS, and knew about it, which is why he stole it. Way before Kakashi learned that he had a MS ability.

1. Based on what are any of these claims true? Pretty sure these are all from the wikia and none of them are backed by the DBIV which ONLY states this: "Danzo's Urashishoufuin is basically exactly as it was presented in the manga. It's a seal that is activated after ones death and it's a blood seal. The only thing interesting the DB says is that it's an especially strong Shishoufuin, so I guess there are many different types of "shishoufuin" that exist and this is one of the strongest (Minato's seal he used to seal Kurama into Naruto is also a "shishoufuin")."

Not stronger then Minato's seal, not S rank, nothing. Anyways, I can't possibly see how seals would require large amounts of chakra control when they don't seem to even use chakra. Minato used seals while extremely low on chakra and sealed both the Kyuubi and himself, I don't think it's ever been indicated to require chakra, or large amounts of it, so even if it's a S rank jutsu it's only difficult due to the markings required, not the chakra employed.

2. Which would only drain more chakra, it has nothing to do with chakra control. Not to mention he could only implant those eyes on his Hashirama DNA arm. That's the reason he has another eye which is normal instead of having 2 eyes which use the Sharingan; he can't handle it without the Hashirama DNA.

3. But he only said it's not easy while near death. That's not a quantifiable chakra control feat anyways because nothing about the amount of control it requires.

4. Baseless claim is baseless. They are a bunch of fodder, there's nothing he's done with it that's impressive at the slightest, especially when he fought Sasuke while it was closed.

5. Stole it to prevent Shisui's attempt to stop the coup with his KA. Not that it matters because you still can't prove how effective his usage with it is, let alone anywhere near Kakashi's level.

Lol stop. Kakashi can't copy without a Sharingan. He learned from Minato the same way Minato taught Jiraya and Jiraya to Naruto. And Sasuke learning Chidori from Kakashi. Copy in that context doesnt mean what your implying. We know Kakashi can copy A rank because he copied Great Waterfall, not because he can use Rasengan. He learn Rasengan so hopfully he can surpass Minato in chakra manipluation but failed and end up making another S rank jutsu with nature[

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] Stop making some make believe chakra control standards that makes you think Danzo can't copy these element A-B rank jutsu.

Oh god. Please quote the exact part that Kakashi stated he copied Rasengan, because I guarantee you it's out of context or made up. He copied it, not learned it. Naruto had to learn it in the same way everyone else did (Kakashi too). But Kakashi stated that he can copy jutsu at just that level, and copying any jutsu above A rank isn't possible for him. He's talking about two totally different things here. Anyways, why are we debating this if you already know he can copy A rank jutsu, I'm only using that scan as evidence that he can copy A rank jutsu. Everything else is irrelevant. No feats for Danzo=not happening.

I was exaggerating. I was making that point that Kakashi only is capable of wielding 1 Sharingan by himself. Danzo can hold 11.

Hashirama face plant is the original source of his cells, Zetsu just carries a diluted version.

Yep, on his Hashirama arm. Hashirama arm is not a source of chakra control, it's a source of a powerful Sharingan station on his arm. Nothing to do with Danzo's own chakra control so stop bringing it up.

1. Lol so Danzo can use its MS ability but can't use a weaker version via 3T, correct? @Bold, what?
2. No idea what manga your reading, Naruto was fighting along side and your saying his superior then KCM Naruto? Just more make believe stuff. Both Kakashi and Danzo are the same tier based on their reaction against Susanoo arrow. And Danzo wasn't able to activate Shisui's eye yet for precog support so nothing implies inferiority
3. Not relevant. KA doesn't function like Ammy and Kamui. Its works by accessing a stronger variant of an near-unbreakable visual genjutsu and needs a decade to do again. Doesnt matter who you are.

1. It's an airborne ability in the MS. And I didn't say he can't use it, I said we don't know how well he can use it. Inb4 you make up feats for that too.
2. Excuse me? LMAO. Naruto gets raped by the first attack of a Jin, and then again and again

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Kakashi was doing just fine against them, landing hits

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I'd love for you to show me a scan of Naruto actually landing a hit on them smh, because it never happened, and he was actually struck twice or three by the non-v2 mode Jins.

3. Yet Shisui was intending to use his KA on the entire clan to prevent coup. That'd take 10 millennia by your logic. Not sure what the rest is supposed to imply, because Kakshi's skill is far above Danzo's in terms of his MS, non-debatable topic given Danzo's lack of feats.

Not relevant. No one is giving him random feats. I am going by what the manga implies. To use Mokuton you have to be efficient in utilizing Suiton and Doton. Then combine it to make Mokuton. I was implying for Danzo to produce Mokuton, he has to be capable of using Suiton chakra and Doton chakra. Doesn't matter if the source of Mokuton is coming from the cells he is manipulating. The Mokuton part is irrelevant to my point.

Yes, when exactly did I deny that? Doesn't change the fact that those attacks would still be below Kakashi's level given Kakashi is more proficient with his ninjutsu when he was on par with a Suiton affinity fighter and has even countered Kisame's attacks.

Decent? That points his chakra control the same as any Kage level. And is already capable of using S rank jutsus. Everything thing else is a waste of replying to.


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].... inb4 eye deteriorated excuses

So now Danzo is Tsunade and Onoki level? Interesting lmao. Please stop making these retarded claims with the wikia as your source.

He was half blind, his SHaringan wasn't even visible on one eye lmao. Saying inb4 doesn't make you immune to the argument that shits all over your claim .

 

[Brooks]

false. Seeing as genjutsu was the reason he lost.

No, Danzo lost to a reality simulation Genjutsu(which he wasn't aware he was in one until the end of his battle against Sasuke....Kakashi as far as I am aware hasn't shown his capable of using this type of Genjutsu nor can he overpower Danzo in Genjutsu as he isn't an Uchiha.​

What? If a kunai is thrown at you instead of weaving seals you block the kunai. Can't do both at the same time. Tbh I don't even understand the situations you brought up. Haku, hanzo, and others made it clear. When 1 hand is occupied making seals is impossible. The only work around is 1 handed seals (only minato, itachi and Haku showe such things) or justu without seals (part of reason why rasengan was created). It's already been shown that it takes time to activate and deactivate izanagi(a time window kakashi can exploit seeing as he exploited windows as small a 5 seconds) and it's already been shown that even kage lvl ninja can be forced not to weave seals or not weave seals quick enough (mei for example on multiple occasions, Itachi on occasion)

Why would Danzo feel the need to block a kunai when can simply dodge it and produce to wave his hand seals at the same time? The fact you think a kunai would have any relevance on someone of Danzo's level sight is simply laughable.​

That jutsu requires seals. My argument shuts that down

Your argument doesn't shut anything down as I already countered it. Danzo could wave hand seals before Susanoo arrow was fired...so, good luck to Kakashi's tricks have any relevance.​

I ment mifune. Sorry.

Okay.​

 

[Brother Numpsay]

1. Based on what are any of these claims true? Pretty sure these are all from the wikia and none of them are backed by the DBIV which ONLY states this: "Danzo's Urashishoufuin is basically exactly as it was presented in the manga. It's a seal that is activated after ones death and it's a blood seal. The only thing interesting the DB says is that it's an especially strong Shishoufuin, so I guess there are many different types of "shishoufuin" that exist and this is one of the strongest (Minato's seal he used to seal Kurama into Naruto is also a "shishoufuin")."

Not stronger then Minato's seal, not S rank, nothing. Anyways, I can't possibly see how seals would require large amounts of chakra control when they don't seem to even use chakra. Minato used seals while extremely low on chakra and sealed both the Kyuubi and himself, I don't think it's ever been indicated to require chakra, or large amounts of it, so even if it's a S rank jutsu it's only difficult due to the markings required, not the chakra employed.

Base manga. Danzo said "I can't let you guys live" and activates the jutsu, then has his reminisce with Hiruzen. All of this mean he was still alive. Your quoting a paraphrase version of the DB, when there is far more better translation.

Even then deductive reasoning should be applied. RDS uses Four Symbol which = Four Symbol. The reverse process is no different. So reguardless on how you look at it the tech is the same level. Chakra employment is not relevant here unless your implying, at the end of the day, Kakashi has more then Danzo.

2. Which would only drain more chakra, it has nothing to do with chakra control. Not to mention he could only implant those eyes on his Hashirama DNA arm. That's the reason he has another eye which is normal instead of having 2 eyes which use the Sharingan; he can't handle it without the Hashirama DNA.

So how does Kakashi improve with his Sharingan? By gaining more chakra? No chakra control does imply here.

Not relevant since Hashirama DNA is part of his possession and had to maintain both Sharingans and DNA.

3. But he only said it's not easy while near death. That's not a quantifiable chakra control feat anyways because nothing about the amount of control it requires.

Nitpicking. Danzo clearly lost control of his chakra and was near death, personally. Obito's statement was specifically to Danzo. Not a general statement. That proves that maintenance is important to control the cells.

4. Baseless claim is baseless. They are a bunch of fodder, there's nothing he's done with it that's impressive at the slightest, especially when he fought Sasuke while it was closed.

Your statement being "baseless claim" is based on a natural ability of the Sharingan, isnt a rebuttal. Using them on bunch of fodders isn't relevant. I outright showed that he used what the Sharingan is capable of. Now but that on his physical stats and use deductive reasoning.

5. Stole it to prevent Shisui's attempt to stop the coup with his KA. Not that it matters because you still can't prove how effective his usage with it is, let alone anywhere near Kakashi's level.

Lol waste of my time. There's only one usage for KA and that manipulation with Genjutsu. There no way you can determine who's better a MS when they all know how to use MS.

Oh god. Please quote the exact part that Kakashi stated he copied Rasengan, because I guarantee you it's out of context or made up. He copied it, not learned it. Naruto had to learn it in the same way everyone else did (Kakashi too). But Kakashi stated that he can copy jutsu at just that level, and copying any jutsu above A rank isn't possible for him. He's talking about two totally different things here. Anyways, why are we debating this if you already know he can copy A rank jutsu, I'm only using that scan as evidence that he can copy A rank jutsu. Everything else is irrelevant. No feats for Danzo=not happening.

I only argued here only because your basing your claim off of a context that doesnt support the claim. You outright stated Kakashi learned it like Naruto then take a context about learning Rasengan to mean he can copy any A rank ninjutsu.

Not having the feats doesn't mean its not true. Unless your willing to believe part 1 2-tomoe Sasuke is superior then a 3T Sharingan. DB states its a natural ability plus feats of weaker characters can do copying = use deductive reasoning.

Yep, on his Hashirama arm. Hashirama arm is not a source of chakra control, it's a source of a powerful Sharingan station on his arm. Nothing to do with Danzo's own chakra control so stop bringing it up.

Nope Hashirama arm only supports physical stamina boost. He still needs to control and maintain both. So stop denying it.

1. It's an airborne ability in the MS. And I didn't say he can't use it, I said we don't know how well he can use it. Inb4 you make up feats for that too.
2. Excuse me? LMAO. Naruto gets raped by the first attack of a Jin, and then again and again

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Kakashi was doing just fine against them, landing hits

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I'd love for you to show me a scan of Naruto actually landing a hit on them smh, because it never happened, and he was actually struck twice or three by the non-v2 mode Jins.

3. Yet Shisui was intending to use his KA on the entire clan to prevent coup. That'd take 10 millennia by your logic. Not sure what the rest is supposed to imply, because Kakshi's skill is far above Danzo's in terms of his MS, non-debatable topic given Danzo's lack of feats.

1. deductive reasoning. It isn't going to be any weaker then 3T Sharingan.
2. Irrelevant scene, since Kakashi would of got worst treatment do dont even think about it. They split the fights when Kakashi and Guy stepped in. Naruto was able to parry them just fine when they split it up[

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3. Still making irrelevant points and the following. It was implying that you cant determine skill base on MS when they are all different. Period.

Yes, when exactly did I deny that? Doesn't change the fact that those attacks would still be below Kakashi's level given Kakashi is more proficient with his ninjutsu when he was on par with a Suiton affinity fighter and has even countered Kisame's attacks.

Kakashi isn't better then Yamato (Doton and Suiton), not by feats. You can argue being better then Danzo buts its not relevant. Since being able to produce Mokuton means he is efficient in using Suiton and Doton. So he can copy them base on his skill. Even not being able to do A rank Suiton/Doton would be irrelevant at this point.

So now Danzo is Tsunade and Onoki level? Interesting lmao. Please stop making these retarded claims with the wikia as your source.

He was half blind, his SHaringan wasn't even visible on one eye lmao. Saying inb4 doesn't make you immune to the argument that shits all over your claim .

By feats his upgrade is = to Hiruzen, so yes?

Not relevant since Danzo was in a worst condition then he was so their healthy conditions isn't going to change that. If you want to ignore this reasoning I could say that Danzo>=MS Sasuke> Kakashi since Kakashi

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Blinded Sasuke.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

No, Danzo lost to a reality simulation Genjutsu(which he wasn't aware he was in one until the end of his battle against Sasuke....Kakashi as far as I am aware hasn't shown his capable of using this type of Genjutsu nor can he overpower Danzo in Genjutsu as he isn't an Uchiha.​

Why would Danzo feel the need to block a kunai when can simply dodge it and produce to wave his hand seals at the same time? The fact you think a kunai would have any relevance on someone of Danzo's level sight is simply laughable.​

Your argument doesn't shut anything down as I already countered it. Danzo could wave hand seals before Susanoo arrow was fired...so, good luck to Kakashi's tricks have any relevance.​

Okay.​

Actually that type of genjutsu was the first genjutsu he used in cannon(on sakura), and he abused it again against Zabuza. Putting ideas in his head, making zabuza appear behind him weaving seals, etc. Then he does it once more with obito. So yeah. Blood matters not. The tool is as good as the user, and by feats danzo fell for the same trick twice.

That's the point of shuriken jutsu. Making it so that you're opponent can't just dodge, or better yet forcing them to take extra steps to do so. Kakashi already shown this against naruto. Forcing him in the air then forcing him to use shadow clone, all with shuriken. And like I said. It's a combination. Not just 1 aspect at a time.

Actually he couldn't. He used a tree to dodge(correct me if I'm wrong tho,)

 

[Brooks]

Actually that type of genjutsu was the first genjutsu he used in cannon(on sakura), and he abused it again against Zabuza. Putting ideas in his head, making zabuza appear behind him weaving seals, etc. Then he does it once more with obito. So yeah. Blood matters not. The tool is as good as the user, and by feats danzo fell for the same trick twice.

Kakashi took advantage of Sakura emotions and plus it was so obvious as Sasuke(who previously disliked Sakura) would be so warm to her out of nowhere and neither of his opponents had a Sharingan to defend themselves. And what makes you think Kakashi is the only one capable of using Genjutsu here?

Actually, Danzo seen through Sasuke's first Genjutsu attempt and only fallen for the second Genjutsu.​

That's the point of shuriken jutsu. Making it so that you're opponent can't just dodge, or better yet forcing them to take extra steps to do so. Kakashi already shown this against naruto. Forcing him in the air then forcing him to use shadow clone, all with shuriken. And like I said. It's a combination. Not just 1 aspect at a time.

It would be pointless as Kakashi already allowed Danzo to wave his hand seals and even if Kakashi does a combination of attacks he still wouldn't do it faster than Danzo...So, the attempt of using Shuriken would pointless as Izanagi would be active at that time and get himself kill to blind side Kakashi(who let is guard down after the kill).​

Actually he couldn't. He used a tree to dodge(correct me if I'm wrong tho,)

I am talking about before hand when Danzo undo Izanagi before Sasuke could fire Susanoo arrow(which wouldn't take long), but yes...he did you use Mokuton to block the arrow.​

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Kakashi took advantage of Sakura emotions and plus it was so obvious as Sasuke(who previously disliked Sakura) would be so warm to her out of nowhere and neither of his opponents had a Sharingan to defend themselves. And what makes you think Kakashi is the only one capable of using Genjutsu here?

Actually, Danzo seen through Sasuke's first Genjutsu attempt and only fallen for the second Genjutsu.​

It would be pointless as Kakashi already allowed Danzo to wave his hand seals and even if Kakashi does a combination of attacks he still wouldn't do it faster than Danzo...So, the attempt of using Shuriken would pointless as Izanagi would be active at that time and get himself kill to blind side Kakashi(who let is guard down after the kill).​

I am talking about before hand when Danzo undo Izanagi before Sasuke could fire Susanoo arrow(which wouldn't take long), but yes...he did you use Mokuton to block the arrow.​

Both cases brought up were reality simulation, somthing you said he couldn't do because he lacked feats.
Let me use your argument against you: Danzo as far as I'm shown hasn't been capable of using that type of genjutsu or one that can overpower kakashi. and no danzo got caught by both. The first genjutsu let sasuke get close to danzo b4 the curse seal kicked in. The second tricked Danzo's arm.

Why can't his execution be faster than Danzo's. He doesn't have reputable speed feats.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. It's your counter argument so I'm allowed to ask for proof.

 

[solorflare99]

Won't do much as he needs a one shot-kill attack to take down Danzo.​

Isn't Danzo the same guy that got taken out by Shurikens? :wut:

 

[Brooks]

Isn't Danzo the same guy that got taken out by Shurikens? :wut:

Sasuke did while Danzo was in mid-air(hence no movement speed).

A bloody kunai thrown by 6-Gate Lee was able to reach Gudōdama before 8-Gate Gai(simply because he was in mid-air) and Gaara was able to stop Ei's attack at full speed with his sand(again, because he was in mid-air). So, that kind of downplaying isn't going get you anywhere.​

 

[solorflare99]

Sasuke did while Danzo was in mid-air(hence no movement speed).

A bloody kunai thrown by 6-Gate Lee was able to reach Gudōdama before 8-Gate Gai(simply because he was in mid-air) and Gaara was able to stop Ei's attack at full speed with his sand(again, because he was in mid-air). So, that kind of downplaying isn't going get you anywhere.​

Mid air doesn't change the fact that he taken out by shurikens. It doesn't matter that he didn't dodge, his durability is so shit he got taken out by shurikens.

 

[Brooks]

Both cases brought up were reality simulation, somthing you said he couldn't do because he lacked feats.
Let me use your argument against you: Danzo as far as I'm shown hasn't been capable of using that type of genjutsu or one that can overpower kakashi. and no danzo got caught by both. The first genjutsu let sasuke get close to danzo b4 the curse seal kicked in. The second tricked Danzo's arm.

Genjutsu in general is Yin element(allowing one to create what they want), but by no means is it a reality simulation genjutsu as Kakashi created unrealistic events especially against Zabuza. To be a reality simulation genjutsu you must make your opponent feel the environment is normal and nothing has changed, but Kakashi made Zabuza think he could see the future somehow.

I never stated Danzo could use reality simulation genjutsu nor can he overpower Kakashi in one.​

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Why can't his execution be faster than Danzo's. He doesn't have reputable speed feats.

Because Danzo could undo Izangai before Sasuke fired his Susanoo arrow...I would love to see what feats Kakashi has that puts Danzo to shame.​

I'm not sure what you're talking about. It's your counter argument so I'm allowed to ask for proof.

Here you go.​

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Mid air doesn't change the fact that he taken out by shurikens. It doesn't matter that he didn't dodge, his durability is so shit he got taken out by shurikens.

*States Shurikens killed Danzo, but still continues to say him being in mid-air doesn't matter even though that was the main reason*

Please, go take your retarded shit elsewhere.

Also, Danzo survived a Kusanagi no Tsurugi: Chidorigatana and later was still alive after Chidori Eisō went through him along with Karin.​

 

[solorflare99]

*States Shurikens killed Danzo, but still continues to say him being mid-air doesn't matter even though that was the main reason*

Please, go take your retarded shit elsewhere.

Also, Danzo survived a Kusanagi no Tsurugi: Chidorigatana and later was still alive after Chidori Eisō went through him along with Karin.​

Him being in mid air is why he got hit, but that doesn't change the fact that his durability is shit.

He survived chidori blade but became even more fooder preceding and couldn't take on a tired and virtually blind sasuke. Then he got hit by chidori spear and new his only option was to kill himself. Fodder is fodder without his power to respawn.

 

[HiddenSound]

Him being in mid air is why he got hit, but that doesn't change the fact that his durability is shit.

He survived chidori blade but became even more fooder preceding and couldn't take on a tired and virtually blind sasuke. Then he got hit by chidori spear and new his only option was to kill himself. Fodder is fodder without his power to respawn.

VS section should be off limits to certain people.

 

[BLAZE]

VS section should be off limits to certain people.

lml dat guy once stated EMS Madara+Kyuubi>>> JJ Madara

 

[WreckRolled]

didn t read a word (like everyone else) danzo wins because i say so

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Genjutsu in general is Yin element(allowing one to create what they want), but by no means is it a reality simulation genjutsu as Kakashi created unrealistic events especially against Zabuza. To be a reality simulation genjutsu you must make your opponent feel the environment is normal and nothing has changed, but Kakashi made Zabuza think he could see the future somehow.

I never stated Danzo could use reality simulation genjutsu nor can he overpower Kakashi in one.​

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Because Danzo could undo Izangai before Sasuke fired his Susanoo arrow...I would love to see what feats Kakashi has that puts Danzo to shame.​

Here you go.​

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*States Shurikens killed Danzo, but still continues to say him being in mid-air doesn't matter even though that was the main reason*

Please, go take your retarded shit elsewhere.

Also, Danzo survived a Kusanagi no Tsurugi: Chidorigatana and later was still alive after Chidori Eisō went through him along with Karin.​

Genjutsu in general is Yin element(allowing one to create what they want), but by no means is it a reality simulation genjutsu as Kakashi created unrealistic events especially against Zabuza. To be a reality simulation genjutsu you must make your opponent feel the environment is normal and nothing has changed, but Kakashi made Zabuza think he could see the future somehow.

I never stated Danzo could use reality simulation genjutsu nor can he overpower Kakashi in one.​

Spoiler

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Because Danzo could undo Izangai before Sasuke fired his Susanoo arrow...I would love to see what feats Kakashi has that puts Danzo to shame.​

Here you go.​

Spoiler

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*States Shurikens killed Danzo, but still continues to say him being in mid-air doesn't matter even though that was the main reason*

Please, go take your retarded shit elsewhere.

Also, Danzo survived a Kusanagi no Tsurugi: Chidorigatana and later was still alive after Chidori Eisō went through him along with Karin.​

Why are we bringing up yin an yang? It is reality simulation. Sakura felt the same before and during the genjutsu. Even when she saw sasuke she genuinely believed he was hurt. Just like danzo believed he had an eye left, or believed itachi was there. I'll admit I'm a little off base on the zabuza one since it's more akin to hypnosis or gaslighting.
Susanoo arrow hype comes from its flying speed. It's prep time is actually quite long, so you're not saying much there. But if you're harping for a comparable feat I'd say him saving himself sakura and obito from lava.

Thx.

 

[Haizaki]

- Kakashi has no proper counter to Baku. When has he shown to use Katon in the Manga? Can't remember at all. Can Kakashi warp something that large? No assumptions. He only copies technique he chooses to copy or at least known to us..0 evidence that he has copied Katon from the Akatuski members until he shows us what he copied like he's always done.

- The location doesn't help Kakashi pull off his clone trickery. Underwater? He'll be noticed and seen easily. It won't even be good for him as well since he won't be breathing and his vision won't be as clear.

Danzo ends up winning this fight.

 

[Apêx1]

- Kakashi has no proper counter to Baku. When has he shown to use Katon in the Manga? Can't remember at all. Can Kakashi warp something that large? No assumptions. He only copies technique he chooses to copy or at least known to us..0 evidence that he has copied Katon from the Akatuski members until he shows us what he copied like he's always done.

Any technique has seen can be copied. Madara was copying Mouton and Ranton techniques 80 years later, and he had no reason to copy KKG which he cannot copy. Kakashi not being able to copy the techniques he's seen Itachi or Kakuzu use is rather fallacious, especially when he's the "Copy Ninja" and he has all chakra natures. If he saw them=he has access to them, regardless of how many times you can say 'feats or gtfo'.

- The location doesn't help Kakashi pull off his clone trickery. Underwater? He'll be noticed and seen easily. It won't even be good for him as well since he won't be breathing and his vision won't be as clear.

Suiton Bunshin's would instantly spawn from the water, they don't need any prep [

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]. Kakashi has used Kisame's shark [

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] and he has used powerful Suiton's that Zabuza could use [

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][

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]. Defensive jutsu like his Suiton Wall are also really effective [

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], given it blocked a large explosion in the past and stopped these drilling bullets. I do feel like Water locations give Kakashi a massive power-up, especially when you add in that Raiton attacks like his running panther can be conducted in the water to Danzo's surprise.

Danzo ends up winning this fight.

Doubt it.