Can amaterasu and susanoo be absorbed?

[TrollKing]

Mangphaxxx:

Ama been absorbed

Susanoo can't be absorbed

 

[xxSAGExx]

But it's solid object. Solid objects have not been shown to be absorbed.



@bold I don't understand two things about your argument. If it's real wood then how can it absorb chakra? Real wood shouldn't be able to do that. Also how can it be created with various densities and hardness? Real wood isn't hard enough to withstand an explosion whereas Hashi's wood is. Also, if it is created with chakra and controlled by it, so shouldn't it be composed of chakra?



My argument is about solid objects. Solids objects can't be realistically absorbed. Therefore, it also makes it doubtful that solid objects can be absorbed by PP especially since no solid object has been shown to be absorbed.

What would you classify FRS? It's more solid than gas or liquid yet that was absorbed by Edo Madara. Pretha Pein absorbed liquid when Adam Jiraiya used Boiling oil. Bee in his tail cloak mode version 2 tails can be seen as physical can't they? Bee used them as horns after Kisame if I remember right but his chakra was absorbed by Kisame and Edo Nagato absorbed it as well. BZ said Kaguya can absorb any jutsu and as far as I know it's still Pretha path

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and she did absorb Amaterasu

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.

 

[shelke]

@bold I don't understand two things about your argument. If it's real wood then how can it absorb chakra? Real wood shouldn't be able to do that. Also how can it be created with various densities and hardness? Real wood isn't hard enough to withstand an explosion whereas Hashi's wood is. Also, if it is created with chakra and controlled by it, so shouldn't it be composed of chakra?

No, my point was that chakra is used to give life to the ground and Mokuton is created; it literally bursts out of the ground. Even Earth techs that manipulate the ground are not Chakra Earth but real earth manipulated with chakra. PP, if used on such techs, won't absorb the earth as it's real. It will simply take out the chakra within it to cancel it out. For example, Gaara can control the sand and make it with his Chakra as well. But that doesn't mean that sand is chakra. It is real Sand. When Sasuke used Enton, it consumed the chakra in that portion, but the Sand wasn't damaged in any manner, even though, there isn't any element that hasn't been sure to be consumed by Amaterasu bar Earth.

That is why I cannot see PP absorbing Mokuton techs, bar Wood Dragon as I believe it's entirely created through Chakra. I don't remember it ever sprouting out of the ground. PP will render them useless as the chakra within it is absorbed, so, it won't be controllable.

 

[shelke]

What would you classify FRS? It's more solid than gas or liquid yet that was absorbed by Edo Madara. Pretha Pein absorbed liquid when Adam Jiraiya used Boiling oil. Bee in his tail cloak mode version 2 tails can be seen as physical can't they? Bee used them as horns after Kisame if I remember right but his chakra was absorbed by Kisame and Edo Nagato absorbed it as well. BZ said Kaguya can absorb any jutsu and as far as I know it's still Pretha path

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and she did absorb Amaterasu

You must be registered for see links

.

Kaguya doesn't have Petra Path. All Chakra simply becomes a part of her. Absorption doesn't mean that everyone would have PP, when few individuals in the manga have had this ability along with tools such as Samehada.

 

[The Demon Hawk]

Sussano is the users chakara giving form to sussano. If you absorb their/the chakra (which is basically all sussano is) there is no sussano. Therefore, yes it can be absorbed.

Yes, I'm aware of what Susanoo is. And I also see that you're twisting things to force your Susanoo absorption theory. The way you're saying (absorbing user's chakra means absorbing Susanoo), then almost everything can be absorbed. BTW, you can't absorb the user's chakra when the Susanoo is around.

 

[The Demon Hawk]

What would you classify FRS? It's more solid than gas or liquid yet that was absorbed by Edo Madara. Pretha Pein absorbed liquid when Adam Jiraiya used Boiling oil. Bee in his tail cloak mode version 2 tails can be seen as physical can't they? Bee used them as horns after Kisame if I remember right but his chakra was absorbed by Kisame and Edo Nagato absorbed it as well. BZ said Kaguya can absorb any jutsu and as far as I know it's still Pretha path

You must be registered for see links

and she did absorb Amaterasu

You must be registered for see links

.

FRS, or Rasengan in general, isn't solid, it's more like energy. The chakra molds and spins to form Rasengan, the form it attains is stable but not solid.

No, my point was that chakra is used to give life to the ground and Mokuton is created; it literally bursts out of the ground. Even Earth techs that manipulate the ground are not Chakra Earth but real earth manipulated with chakra. PP, if used on such techs, won't absorb the earth as it's real. It will simply take out the chakra within it to cancel it out. For example, Gaara can control the sand and make it with his Chakra as well. But that doesn't mean that sand is chakra. It is real Sand. When Sasuke used Enton, it consumed the chakra in that portion, but the Sand wasn't damaged in any manner, even though, there isn't any element that hasn't been sure to be consumed by Amaterasu bar Earth.

That is why I cannot see PP absorbing Mokuton techs, bar Wood Dragon as I believe it's entirely created through Chakra. I don't remember it ever sprouting out of the ground. PP will render them useless as the chakra within it is absorbed, so, it won't be controllable.

I understand what you're saying, and that isn't logically wrong or impossible. In fact, it seems very viable and understandable, and I would've agreed with it if it weren't for the details. But the point still remains.

If it is "real" wood, how come it possesses all the unusual characteristics which real wood doesn't possess? If it's real wood, then it should just be a moderately strong solid object emerging from the ground and being controlled by chakra. So how it absorbs chakra? How does it having varying density and can be hardened enough to tank a TBB explosion? How can it be completely separated from the ground like the Wood summons? How will you explain these abnormalities?

And if it's simply chakra fueling to the ground to create Wood, then why does it needs to have the specific Earth and Water elements? You simply give chakra to the ground right, it's JUST chakra (Yang chakra to be specific), then what's the need for having the specific nature transformations of Earth and Water?

Regarding Gaara, Gaara uses the surrounding sand, contrary to Hashirama creating it.

 

[ComplexCity]

Yes, I'm aware of what Susanoo is. And I also see that you're twisting things to force your Susanoo absorption theory. The way you're saying (absorbing user's chakra means absorbing Susanoo), then almost everything can be absorbed. BTW, you can't absorb the user's chakra when the Susanoo is around.

Ok so show me a manga scan of that happening because as far as I'm concerned it's possible and nothing in the manga suggest that the end of your statement is true at all. Sussano is the users chakra so I don't know what exactly trying to say


Nobody is twisting the manga, use your common sense. Sussano is not limitless like Bijuu chakra is, there is a limit to how much the caster has. Sussano is a solid made from the users chakra and literally has a shroud of chakra around it. Chakra =/= wood

 

[Aznkidd]

For some reason ppl never try to absorb Susano'o or the Kyuubi avatar. I have always found that weird.

Low level absorb jutsu or even rinnegan absorb wont able to absorb susanoo or kyuubi avatar that got enchanced with rikudou power.

 

[ANiMUS]

Low level absorb jutsu or even rinnegan absorb wont able to absorb susanoo or kyuubi avatar that got enchanced with rikudou power.

If u say so :| Tenseigan apparently can though

 

[Ripple Hole]

Plot to avoid 1 shoting the main Uchiha .

 

[KesOnFire]

Amaterasu can be. susanooo? wtf lol

 

[The Demon Hawk]

Ok so show me a manga scan of that happening because as far as I'm concerned it's possible and nothing in the manga suggest that the end of your statement is true at all. Sussano is the users chakra so I don't know what exactly trying to say


Nobody is twisting the manga, use your common sense. Sussano is not limitless like Bijuu chakra is, there is a limit to how much the caster has. Sussano is a solid made from the users chakra and literally has a shroud of chakra around it. Chakra =/= wood

One suggestion. Try not to bring manga scans into this argument, because you know what will happen if I demand a manga scan to support yourself. Let's move on.

The point is not about absorbing the user's chakra. The point is Susanoo itself CAN'T be absorbed. So the quantity difference between the chakra of bijuus and Susanoo user don't matter.

@bold That's the point. Susanoo is a solid object. In real life, solid objects can't be absorbed. But in NV, that could be possible, but the fact that it isn't shown and common sense says solid objects can't be absorbed in enough proof that Susanoo can't be absorbed.

 

[ComplexCity]

One suggestion. Try not to bring manga scans into this argument, because you know what will happen if I demand a manga scan to support yourself. Let's move on.

The point is not about absorbing the user's chakra. The point is Susanoo itself CAN'T be absorbed. So the quantity difference between the chakra of bijuus and Susanoo user don't matter.

@bold That's the point. Susanoo is a solid object. In real life, solid objects can't be absorbed. But in NV, that could be possible, but the fact that it isn't shown and common sense says solid objects can't be absorbed in enough proof that Susanoo can't be absorbed.

*facepalm*

Sussano = the users chakara what is so hard to understand?

They do matter for the simple fact that when bijuu lose chakra they don't go away as when Kurama had no chakra to give to Naruto he still remained. Unlike an Uchiha who uses Sussano, when the users is out of chakra, then Sussano is lost. Sussano, solid or not, is surround by a shroud of chakra around it. Just as Naruto is a solid and lost his senjutsu chakara through contact, the same will happen with Sussano except that it will lose its form.


There's no need to ask for manga scans because unless you can prove that Sussano isn't pure chakra, there really is no need to provide any since according to the DB and manga, the PP has never failed to absorb chakara. It's your duty to provide manga scans to disprove what I'm saying

 

[Im Still Robin]

Absorbing susanoo is a waste of time.

It's considered chakra, but unless susanoo is like a talkless tailed beast then it's pointless.

It would be a waste of time because I doubt you get any actual usable/absorb able chakra from it.

 

[~Ethereal~]

Maybe.

 

[shelke]

I understand what you're saying, and that isn't logically wrong or impossible. In fact, it seems very viable and understandable, and I would've agreed with it if it weren't for the details. But the point still remains.

If it is "real" wood, how come it possesses all the unusual characteristics which real wood doesn't possess? If it's real wood, then it should just be a moderately strong solid object emerging from the ground and being controlled by chakra. So how it absorbs chakra? How does it having varying density and can be hardened enough to tank a TBB explosion? How can it be completely separated from the ground like the Wood summons? How will you explain these abnormalities?

And if it's simply chakra fueling to the ground to create Wood, then why does it needs to have the specific Earth and Water elements? You simply give chakra to the ground right, it's JUST chakra (Yang chakra to be specific), then what's the need for having the specific nature transformations of Earth and Water?

Regarding Gaara, Gaara uses the surrounding sand, contrary to Hashirama creating it.

Because it's fueled by chakra and it obviously strengthens it and gives it those qualities. The manga has left a "fill in the blank" kinda loop hole in all of this, but this is the best explanation I can come up with.

No, you misunderstood me. PP will cancel out the tech by pulling out the chakra from it. The wood will be useless then. Hashirama won't be able to control it. As for Mokuton that it's Youton or Yang release. In other words, it breathes life into things. It doesn't create things out of nothing. That would be Inton or Yin Release. Both of these processes are simply watered down version of Creation of All Things / Onmyouton:

Spoiler

Databook

Ying Yang/Onmyouton

Inton (Yin/Dark), which creates form from nothing, and Youton (Yang/Light), which breathes life into form. Skillfully manipulating these two elements, the Sage of Six Paths, Ootsutsuki Hagoromo, developed the Banbutsu Souzou (Creation of All Things) Jutsu. Creating the nine Bijuu out of the Juubi's chakra was also the result of Onmyouton. Afterwards, Inton was inherited more predominately in the Uchiha clan, while Youton was inherited more predominately in the Senju clan.

The ground already has the ability to produce wood. Mokuton simply breathes life into the ground and literally controls that process. The wood is real. Gaara's Sand is also real. Rasangan and Katon or Raiton attacks or cloak for the last one, aren't real; they are made entirely of Chakra. PP can only absorb something that's entirely made up of chakra.

As I explained earlier that (almost all) Earth Element attacks normally work in a very similar manner to Mokuton. Earth is already there, but the user infuses certain portion of the earth with Chakra to manipulate it. For example, in some cases hands are literally slapped on the ground to manipulate it.

The thing about Mokuton is that it's a self-sustaining system kind of a technique. The woods are real, they won't disappear if Hashirama dies. They will remain. Only that the chakra Hashirama used to make it would disappear, freeing them of control. It's very similar to Kabuto's Inorganic Transmigration.

Do you remember Danzo? Hashirama's arm literally made a tree grow out of it. Did it disappear when Danzo died? His arm was literally reacting and combining with trees when he was low on chakra. In part one, the Anbu member states that Hashirama's life force became the root of the tree: meaning, the life force was controlling its growth. The tree is still real:

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Spoiler

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Then we have white Zetsu as well. His body literally reacts to tree roots as well. The ground has the ability to produce flora as well, which is why I used Gaara's example. It's not the same thing but the analogy is safe enough to be used for Mokuton as well. This is the best way I can explain this. Mokuton cannot be absorbed by PP if it sprouts from the ground. The chakra inside it can be. It will simply be rendered ineffective.

 

[Aznkidd]

Because it's fueled by chakra and it obviously strengthens it and gives it those qualities. The manga has left a "fill in the blank" kinda loop hole in all of this, but this is the best explanation I can come up with.

No, you misunderstood me. PP will cancel out the tech by pulling out the chakra from it. The wood will be useless then. Hashirama won't be able to control it. As for Mokuton that it's Youton or Yang release. In other words, it breathes life into things. It doesn't create things out of nothing. That would be Inton or Yin Release. Both of these processes are simply watered down version of Creation of All Things / Onmyouton:

Spoiler

Databook

Ying Yang/Onmyouton

Inton (Yin/Dark), which creates form from nothing, and Youton (Yang/Light), which breathes life into form. Skillfully manipulating these two elements, the Sage of Six Paths, Ootsutsuki Hagoromo, developed the Banbutsu Souzou (Creation of All Things) Jutsu. Creating the nine Bijuu out of the Juubi's chakra was also the result of Onmyouton. Afterwards, Inton was inherited more predominately in the Uchiha clan, while Youton was inherited more predominately in the Senju clan.

The ground already has the ability to produce wood. Mokuton simply breathes life into the ground and literally controls that process. The wood is real. Gaara's Sand is also real. Rasangan and Katon or Raiton attacks or cloak for the last one, aren't real; they are made entirely of Chakra. PP can only absorb something that's entirely made up of chakra.

As I explained earlier that (almost all) Earth Element attacks normally work in a very similar manner to Mokuton. Earth is already there, but the user infuses certain portion of the earth with Chakra to manipulate it. For example, in some cases hands are literally slapped on the ground to manipulate it.

The thing about Mokuton is that it's a self-sustaining system kind of a technique. The woods are real, they won't disappear if Hashirama dies. They will remain. Only that the chakra Hashirama used to make it would disappear, freeing them of control. It's very similar to Kabuto's Inorganic Transmigration.

Do you remember Danzo? Hashirama's arm literally made a tree grow out of it. Did it disappear when Danzo died? His arm was literally reacting and combining with trees when he was low on chakra. In part one, the Anbu member states that Hashirama's life force became the root of the tree: meaning, the life force was controlling its growth. The tree is still real:

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Spoiler

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Then we have white Zetsu as well. His body literally reacts to tree roots as well. The ground has the ability to produce flora as well, which is why I used Gaara's example. It's not the same thing but the analogy is safe enough to be used for Mokuton as well. This is the best way I can explain this. Mokuton cannot be absorbed by PP if it sprouts from the ground. The chakra inside it can be. It will simply be rendered ineffective.

Just one thing, Hashi mokuton is super strong cause it has another effect....and that is ability to absorb and sustain/stop the object. 2 absorb ability clashing against each other....

 

[SUPERDEADLYKING]

hmm it would be interesting lol

 

[The Demon Hawk]

*facepalm*

Sussano = the users chakara what is so hard to understand?

They do matter for the simple fact that when bijuu lose chakra they don't go away as when Kurama had no chakra to give to Naruto he still remained. Unlike an Uchiha who uses Sussano, when the users is out of chakra, then Sussano is lost. Sussano, solid or not, is surround by a shroud of chakra around it. Just as Naruto is a solid and lost his senjutsu chakara through contact, the same will happen with Sussano except that it will lose its form.


There's no need to ask for manga scans because unless you can prove that Sussano isn't pure chakra, there really is no need to provide any since according to the DB and manga, the PP has never failed to absorb chakara. It's your duty to provide manga scans to disprove what I'm saying

Nothing is hard to "understand". I know Susanoo is a humanoid creature created by the user's chakra manifestation. My argument is about the state of the object.

Forget about the Bijuus for a moment. They're irrelevant for now. Because Bijuus are actually animals created by Hagoromo and are chakra monsters given a form.

Dude, the comparison of Naruto with Susanoo is ridiculous. Chakra is absorbed from within Naruto with physical contact. But jutsus and techniques are absorbed as a whole, not the chakra within them. Naruto is not himself chakra like Susanoo is.

To eliminate the Susanoo, chakra can be absorbed from the user, but that won't be possible since Susanoo won't allow someone to make physical contact with the user. And Susanoo itself can't be absorbed since it has to be absorbed as a whole since techniques are absorbed as a whole, not just chakra. The reason is that Susanoo is a solid form.

If PP has never failed to absorb chakra, it has also never once succeeded in absorbing solid objects. So the duty to provide manga scans in equal on both of us.

Spoiler

Oh and BTW, it's better for your side if PP can't absorb solid chakra objects. Because if PP can absorb solidified chakra, then Sasuke has a huge advantage over Naruto because he will be able to absorb Kurama Avatar then. And I know you wouldn't want that to happen. So be a good boy and agree with my theory.

Because it's fueled by chakra and it obviously strengthens it and gives it those qualities. The manga has left a "fill in the blank" kinda loop hole in all of this, but this is the best explanation I can come up with.

No, you misunderstood me. PP will cancel out the tech by pulling out the chakra from it. The wood will be useless then. Hashirama won't be able to control it. As for Mokuton that it's Youton or Yang release. In other words, it breathes life into things. It doesn't create things out of nothing. That would be Inton or Yin Release. Both of these processes are simply watered down version of Creation of All Things / Onmyouton:

Spoiler

Databook

Ying Yang/Onmyouton

Inton (Yin/Dark), which creates form from nothing, and Youton (Yang/Light), which breathes life into form. Skillfully manipulating these two elements, the Sage of Six Paths, Ootsutsuki Hagoromo, developed the Banbutsu Souzou (Creation of All Things) Jutsu. Creating the nine Bijuu out of the Juubi's chakra was also the result of Onmyouton. Afterwards, Inton was inherited more predominately in the Uchiha clan, while Youton was inherited more predominately in the Senju clan.

The ground already has the ability to produce wood. Mokuton simply breathes life into the ground and literally controls that process. The wood is real. Gaara's Sand is also real. Rasangan and Katon or Raiton attacks or cloak for the last one, aren't real; they are made entirely of Chakra. PP can only absorb something that's entirely made up of chakra.

As I explained earlier that (almost all) Earth Element attacks normally work in a very similar manner to Mokuton. Earth is already there, but the user infuses certain portion of the earth with Chakra to manipulate it. For example, in some cases hands are literally slapped on the ground to manipulate it.

The thing about Mokuton is that it's a self-sustaining system kind of a technique. The woods are real, they won't disappear if Hashirama dies. They will remain. Only that the chakra Hashirama used to make it would disappear, freeing them of control. It's very similar to Kabuto's Inorganic Transmigration.

Do you remember Danzo? Hashirama's arm literally made a tree grow out of it. Did it disappear when Danzo died? His arm was literally reacting and combining with trees when he was low on chakra. In part one, the Anbu member states that Hashirama's life force became the root of the tree: meaning, the life force was controlling its growth. The tree is still real:

You must be registered for see links

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Then we have white Zetsu as well. His body literally reacts to tree roots as well. The ground has the ability to produce flora as well, which is why I used Gaara's example. It's not the same thing but the analogy is safe enough to be used for Mokuton as well. This is the best way I can explain this. Mokuton cannot be absorbed by PP if it sprouts from the ground. The chakra inside it can be. It will simply be rendered ineffective.

Okay, now I understand your explanation completely and also agree with it. But regardless of that, it doesn't disprove my point that solid objects can't be absorbed.

Here's a question. Is Gate of the Great God technique real wood or chakra created wood? If it is real wood, then how come it is falling from above rather than coming from the ground? And if it's chakra created wood, then it proves my point that solid objects cannot be absorbed (unless Madara likes being binded by wood and didn't feel like absorbing it OR he forgot that he even had Preta Path).

Plot to avoid 1 shoting the main Uchiha .

You're talking like everybody has got chakra absorption ability. Dumb hater!

 

[shelke]

Just one thing, Hashi mokuton is super strong cause it has another effect....and that is ability to absorb and sustain/stop the object. 2 absorb ability clashing against each other....

Rephrase your post. I don't understand what you are trying to say.

Okay, now I understand your explanation completely and also agree with it. But regardless of that, it doesn't disprove my point that solid objects can't be absorbed.

Here's a question. Is Gate of the Great God technique real wood or chakra created wood? If it is real wood, then how come it is falling from above rather than coming from the ground? And if it's chakra created wood, then it proves my point that solid objects cannot be absorbed (unless Madara likes being binded by wood and didn't feel like absorbing it OR he forgot that he even had Preta Path).

You're talking like everybody has got chakra absorption ability. Dumb hater!

No, I didn't disagree with you. I actually agree.

I believe it's chakra wood as it's a Sage Art technique and doesn't sprout from the ground. Madara couldn't move, as I explained above, because certain Mokuton techs have a property to cancel out "all Ninjutsu". He couldn't absorb it, because his ninjutsu was cancelled. If you want me to get a scan, I can get a scan for you as Hashirama clearly mentions it as to why he couldn't absorb it, otherwise, he would have.