Kisame vs Itachi

[Beans2]

Location: Kisame vs Bee
Intel: Manga
Distance: 40 meters
Restrictions: None

 

[EZQ]

Kisame wins with manga knowledge and a starting distance beyond 15 m

 

[Zexion~]

Itachi wins, his genjutsu master has captured experts on the sharingan like Hebi Sasuke, and samehada didn't react to Killer bee being put in a genjutsu. So at best, samehada is slow at noticing genjutsu. Given that even the bijuu method wasn't quick enough to break out of the genjutsu before Itachi struck next.


I love arguing for Kisame, but Itachi is portrayed as and is superior in many fields over Kisame. It'd be a high diff fight imo.

 

[Lariatoo]

Itachi med high diffs.

 

[Apêx1]

Itachi high diffs. No counters to Genjutsu or Yata+Totsuka.

 

[moonfriez]

How many times do we have to debate this. No matter how many times people claim kisame can win, no matter how much evidence you think you have, itachi is portrayed as vastly superior. He won in the manga during their "fight", and if they were to go all out itachi would win too. It's the portrayal people, and nothing can save kisame

 

[Beans2]

Itachi high diffs. No counters to Genjutsu or Yata+Totsuka.

Itachi is not using Tsukuyomi while maintaining more than a ribcage Susanoo, and Itachi needs to use at least V3 to stop himself from being oneshotted from GSB. If Kisame puts up water dome to trap Itachi, he won't be able to dodge GSB with shunshin. Any genjutsu besides Tsukuyomi is not a threat to Kisame and he himself or Samehada can break him out if he even does get caught.

Furthermore, eye contact is not happening. With intel Kisame will opt to use water dome, which dulls vision through its vast expanse of water.

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On top of that, Itachi would have to make eye contact with Itachi from behind Susanoo, since without it he's left vulnerable to 1,000 feeding sharks. Susanoo is partially opaque, just like water, and if Kisame is fighting from a range especially, all he has to do is look at Susanoo, not look at Itachi specifically.

If that's not enough, the final nail in the coffin is that fused Kisame is a sensor and can fight perfectly fine in Water Dome without vision [

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] so Itachi is never catching Kisame in visual genjutsu.

 

[Worm]

Pissame probably gets pierced by Totsuka after he assumes it's a chakra blade and tries to absorb it. Unless this isn't fanfiction manga Pissame and rather is canonical omnipotent Pissame. In which case, Pissame has this.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

If Samehada can break Kisame out of a genjutsu, it cannically isn't as quick as the partner Bijuu method. Itachi was able to get out a ninjutsu, albeit weak, in the time that it took for Bee and Hachibi to break the basic genjutsu. If Kisame gets trapped in a visual genjutsu, Itachi will clear the distance, use Tsyukuyomi and manipulate Kisame to throw away Samehada.

Susano'o arm or a kunai to the head/throat would end it. His chance is fusing or clones, to escape genjutsu.

 

[King Of Pop]

lets see if this one has many pages as the ms sasuke one.

OT itachi mid/high dif.

 

[Beans2]

If Samehada can break Kisame out of a genjutsu, it cannically isn't as quick as the partner Bijuu method. Itachi was able to get out a ninjutsu, albeit weak, in the time that it took for Bee and Hachibi to break the basic genjutsu. If Kisame gets trapped in a visual genjutsu, Itachi will clear the distance, use Tsyukuyomi and manipulate Kisame to throw away Samehada.

Susano'o arm or a kunai to the head/throat would end it. His chance is fusing or clones, to escape genjutsu.

1. How is fused Kisame in water dome getting caught by genjutsu in the first place?
2. How is Itachi closing the distance between them underwater?

Just admit that Kisame stomps.

 

[Apêx1]

Itachi is not using Tsukuyomi while maintaining more than a ribcage Susanoo, and Itachi needs to use at least V3 to stop himself from being oneshotted from GSB. If Kisame puts up water dome to trap Itachi, he won't be able to dodge GSB with shunshin. Any genjutsu besides Tsukuyomi is not a threat to Kisame and he himself or Samehada can break him out if he even does get caught.

@underlined, Itachi knows about Kisame's large scale ninjutsu too and replaces himself with a crow clone.
Are you suggesting Kisame is creating GSB within the water dome? Clarify
Not seeing how Samehada would know to break him out when it can't sense chakra flow. Kisame is put into Genjutsu and Samehada doesn't do anything because it's clueless. Any Genjutsu ends Kisame.

Furthermore, eye contact is not happening. With intel Kisame will opt to use water dome, which dulls vision through its vast expanse of water.

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You can still see, just to a lesser degree. Sharingan's precise vision should make up for that though, and once Kisame is within a 5 meter range he's most definitely prone to Genjutsu. Please let's not forget about Itachi's exploding Bunshin's as well, which could be used to force Kisame to pick one of the two/three. Picking the wrong one would result in tremendous damage given underwater explosions are far more powerful then outside of water explosions.

On top of that, Itachi would have to make eye contact with Itachi from behind Susanoo, since without it he's left vulnerable to 1,000 feeding sharks. Susanoo is partially opaque, just like water, and if Kisame is fighting from a range especially, all he has to do is look at Susanoo, not look at Itachi specifically.

If that's not enough, the final nail in the coffin is that fused Kisame is a sensor and can fight perfectly fine in Water Dome without vision [

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] so Itachi is never catching Kisame in visual genjutsu.

I'd like you to fix this first sentence up since I'm not really understanding what you mean, also, are you saying this is done within WD? Anyways, if Itachi uses v4 Susano within the water you can almost guarantee Kisame is getting stabbed by Totsuka (no intel on it as far as I recall) while he's absorbing some of the Susano.

It is pure conjecture to suggest Kisame can fight perfectly while closing his eyes. Yes, he's a proficient sensor while fused and can move around in the water to a particular location without sight. But to say he can fight effectively, let alone perfectly is noting but an assumption. He's not SM level sensing, never was never will be. Doing this will end up with Kisame getting stabbed by Totsuka.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

1. How is fused Kisame in water dome getting caught by genjutsu in the first place?
2. How is Itachi closing the distance between them underwater?

Just admit that Kisame stomps.

I didn't mention fused Kisame or the Water Dome. I even said he'd command Kisame to throw Samehada way. . This is all pertaining to the portions before that, as of course Kisamehada is an entity without weakness.

 

[Haizaki]

Kisame wins. I wonder how Itachi is going to supposedly risk landing Tsukoyomi on a man who can create multiple water clones preventing Itachi from distinguishing the real from the fake. Genjutsu doesn't work on clones and Itachi is left opened once he takes that risk. Not to mention Samehada that can heal him.

Several ways the Shark man can win this fight. He's a bad matchup for the MS users.

 

[Beans2]

@underlined, Itachi knows about Kisame's large scale ninjutsu too and replaces himself with a crow clone.

Not as easy as you're saying. Not nearly as easy as you're saying. First off it was never implied that Itachi had intel on GSB. "Large scale ninjutsu" doesn't cut it because that doesn't guarantee that Itachi will try to dodge instead of attempt to tank it.

Second, this is taking place underwater since there's literally nothing Itachi can do to prevent himself getting caught in water dome, or evade its aoe. If he tries to "replace himself" with a crow clone, that means for this strategy to work the real Itachi has to swim out of GSB's

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. Something he's simply not fast enough to do. Otherwise the shark missile just devours both Itachi and his clone.

Are you suggesting Kisame is creating GSB within the water dome? Clarify

Yes.

Not seeing how Samehada would know to break him out when it can't sense chakra flow. Kisame is put into Genjutsu and Samehada doesn't do anything because it's clueless. Any Genjutsu ends Kisame.

Samehada can sense chakra.

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Sensors can sense chakra flow to tell if someone else has their chakras disturbed.

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Samehada only needs to

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Kisame, and the pain will

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.

Don't see how any genjutsu would end Kisame, when only Tsukuyomi does mental damage to the person caught. Any other genjutsu just paralyzes him, and Kisame breaks out by disturbing his chakra flow, inflicting pain on himself, or Samehada does either of those for him. I mean, I guess he can bite off his tongue if he really needs to.

You can still see, just to a lesser degree. Sharingan's precise vision should make up for that though, and once Kisame is within a 5 meter range he's most definitely prone to Genjutsu. Please let's not forget about Itachi's exploding Bunshin's as well, which could be used to force Kisame to pick one of the two/three. Picking the wrong one would result in tremendous damage given underwater explosions are far more powerful then outside of water explosions.

1. This is Kisame's vision we're talking about, not Itachi's. If Kisame's vision is impaired by both the water and the partial opacity of Susanoo, and he has intel on genjutsu, and he can just look at Susanoo instead of Itachi's eyes, and he doesn't need eyesight at all in the first place, how the hell is he making eye contact?

2. How is Itachi getting Kisame in a five meter range?

30% Kisame already managed to evade an explosion of similar size [

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]. Kisame also tanks exploding bunshin with zero difficulty. Exploding clones were never shown to pack much power, and he has Samehada to heal him from whatever damage he may take.

I'd like you to fix this first sentence up since I'm not really understanding what you mean, also, are you saying this is done within WD? Anyways, if Itachi uses v4 Susano within the water you can almost guarantee Kisame is getting stabbed by Totsuka (no intel on it as far as I recall) while he's absorbing some of the Susano.

Sure. What I mean is Susanoo is semitransparent. Itachi's eyes are behind Susanoo. That means it's easier for Kisame to avoid eye contact since from a distance, with water obscuring his vision as well as Susanoo. Kisame would actually have to try to look for Itachi's eyes to make eye contact. It's much easier for him to look at Susanoo as a whole and focus on that, than to look specifically at Itachi.

Kisame is not getting stabbed by Totsuka, because he can stay out of its range. He wouldn't choose the risky strategy of going up to Susanoo and absorbing it. Not when he can do some from a distance with GSB, or just outlast V4 Susanoo.

It is pure conjecture to suggest Kisame can fight perfectly while closing his eyes. Yes, he's a proficient sensor while fused and can move around in the water to a particular location without sight. But to say he can fight effectively, let alone perfectly is noting but an assumption. He's not SM level sensing, never was never will be. Doing this will end up with Kisame getting stabbed by Totsuka.

Kisame already fought perfectly well with no vision

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, so that kills your point. His reactions and stuff would be slowed down sure, but winning this battle for Kisame is as simple as sitting in water dome and waiting for V4/V3 Susanoo to come down so he can one shot with GSB. Or he just outlasts period and Itachi drowns.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

Kisame wins. I wonder how Itachi is going to supposedly risk landing Tsukoyomi on a man who can create multiple water clones preventing Itachi from distinguishing the real from the fake. Genjutsu doesn't work on clones and Itachi is left opened once he takes that risk. Not to mention Samehada that can heal him.

Several ways the Shark man can win this fight. He's a bad matchup for the MS users.

Ey Evani, I've got a few questions relating to this strategy. The first being - How are clones going to be confusing Itachi? To a man who can easily take in Kisame's top speed and react to it, he shouldn't be distracted or unable to recall the original's position. Based off of physical capabilities alone, Itachi should know who is and who isn't a clone, considering the strength of the Mizu Bunshin's are a tenth of the original.

Which also brings me to my next point, Itachi will immediately recognize Kisame from the crowd, based on the fact that he'll have chakra that dwarfs the clones, and Itachi's sharingan can see quantity of chakra [

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]. At the end of the day, the Kisame using large scale suiton is the target, unless this is a ploy to just fuse. Which would be sorta meaningless, as he could just fuse and still get the same end result.

 

[ARGUS]

Itachi wins mid/high diff

 

[RustledJimmies]

I was gonna say Pissame can't lose, but Itachi wins since Zex said so, and we all know his word is law.

 

[LuckyMan]

Ey Evani, I've got a few questions relating to this strategy. The first being - How are clones going to be confusing Itachi? To a man who can easily take in Kisame's top speed and react to it, he shouldn't be distracted or unable to recall the original's position. Based off of physical capabilities alone, Itachi should know who is and who isn't a clone, considering the strength of the Mizu Bunshin's are a tenth of the original.

Which also brings me to my next point, Itachi will immediately recognize Kisame from the crowd, based on the fact that he'll have chakra that dwarfs the clones, and Itachi's sharingan can see quantity of chakra [

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]. At the end of the day, the Kisame using large scale suiton is the target, unless this is a ploy to just fuse. Which would be sorta meaningless, as he could just fuse and still get the same end result.

Then he makes 10 clones? 10% of Kisame chakra is still a shit ton more than most characters.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

Then he makes 10 clones? 10% of Kisame chakra is still a shit ton more than most characters.

Sure, but 10% Kisame is still physically inferior to the original, who possesses the full strength. They're worthless to mention, and just making them doesn't confuse Itachi. If he's incapable of any quick movement to hide the original in the mass of clones, I don't see why Itachi can't just target the real one.