Gold And Silver Bros Are Stronger Than Tobirama

[Lariatoo]

we also dont know if kinkaku and ginkaku were even there lol. It was only stated that they were the kinkaku unit of 20 bounty hunters. I dont know why people always try to bring kakuzu into this, he wasnt there :|. I personally dont believe those 20 ninja were more skilled than the dozens of anbu a 13 yr old obito killed.

Hiruzen seemed to think he could take them as well lol

We bring mostly because he was the only bounty hunter alive at the time that we know of :lol
And Hiruzen's was probably just bravado só that his teammates won't get scared and tried to detain him of going. Trust me, he was going with complete certain of his death.

 

[Remedy]

Just because its simpler doesnt change the fact that he has a marking on his stone face to teleport to. He looked fine, he has the chakra. This is the same guy who teleported 2 Bijuu at once.

Their mission was over as far as i cant tell. Their aim was only to escape, so i dont think he would have been regarded as scum. All they were trying to do was get back to konoha. So nope, i dont know what mission you are talking about.

HE had a marking on his monument to teleport to, but as for having chakra to teleport others, or If he could. The feats you're talking about was post death, and still he wasnt seen teleporting masses like Minato, usually one or two at a time. All of the details leading to his death and the war specifically were off panel, so you're highly assuming without taking circumstances in account that lead to him not doing so. Their aim may have been to escape with something really valuable on hand, or to relay a message to a Village. We don't know, so it's stupid to automatically categorize it without knowing the full details of what transpired.

 

[KesOnFire]

Tobirama would rekt them.

Tobirama was ambushed.

 

[SW442]

Agreed. KinGin appear to be stronger than Tobirama, seeing as they both almost killed 2 Kage. When Kishi drew the Kage, when talking about the coup, he had blood all around them. Seems to show the brothers bloodied up both Kage when they went there.

And also, people keep merging 2 events together. The Kinkaku Unit has nothing to do with the events Raikage is speaking of.

KinGin and the Kinkaku Butai

Spoiler

People always say "Tobirama lost to 20 ninja."

That was 2 separate events. The coup happened during an alliance meeting, where the Raikage was also with him for back-up. Databook states KinGin left both of them in critical condition, and that they used their weapons, in combination with Kyuubi chakra. But nothing about them bringing a squad there.

Then later, shown in Danzou's flashback, the Kinkaku Butai is what actually killed Tobirama, and KinGin may, or may not, have been apart of the group when that happened.

I don't see how people think both happened in one day. Since Tobirama was killed there, it had to have happened after the coup, since a dead man wouldn't have arrived at a meeting. And because it happened after the coup incident, it couldn't have been the same day because Tobirama was half-dead when KinGin got done with him. He does not look half-dead when telling Hiruzen and Danzou to run.

Those events did not happen on the same day. Two Separate Battles that people seem content to run together into 1 event. Now whether KinGin were in the force at the time all boils down to headcanon. We don't know anything about the Kinkaku Butai, other than it had 20 ninja. But that encounter had nothing to do with the coup d'etat that happened before it, where KinGin attacked during an alliance meeting-not out in the forest.

 

[Narutobirama]

Agreed. KinGin appear to be stronger than Tobirama, seeing as they both almost killed 2 Kage. When Kishi drew the Kage, when talking about the coup, he had blood all around them. Seems to show the brothers bloodied up both Kage when they went there.

And also, people keep merging 2 events together. The Kinkaku Unit has nothing to do with the events Raikage is speaking of.

KinGin and the Kinkaku Butai

Spoiler

People always say "Tobirama lost to 20 ninja."

That was 2 separate events. The coup happened during an alliance meeting, where the Raikage was also with him for back-up. Databook states KinGin left both of them in critical condition, and that they used their weapons, in combination with Kyuubi chakra. But nothing about them bringing a squad there.

Then later, shown in Danzou's flashback, the Kinkaku Butai is what actually killed Tobirama, and KinGin may, or may not, have been apart of the group when that happened.

I don't see how people think both happened in one day. Since Tobirama was killed there, it had to have happened after the coup, since a dead man wouldn't have arrived at a meeting. And because it happened after the coup incident, it couldn't have been the same day because Tobirama was half-dead when KinGin got done with him. He does not look half-dead when telling Hiruzen and Danzou to run.

Those events did not happen on the same day. Two Separate Battles that people seem content to run together into 1 event. Now whether KinGin were in the force at the time all boils down to headcanon. We don't know anything about the Kinkaku Butai, other than it had 20 ninja. But that encounter had nothing to do with the coup d'etat that happened before it, where KinGin attacked during an alliance meeting-not out in the forest.

Up until now, any team named after someone was a team lead by that person. Like Team Tobirama, Team Kakashi and other teams. Unless otherwise stated, I believe it is safe to assume Kinkaku was in that team. And considering Kinkaku and Ginkaku fought together, I would assume Ginkaku as well.

Also, we can't really know whether it was two events or not. It could have been the same event. Or maybe it happened the same day. Tobirama being nearly dead can be interpreted in many ways. It could mean he was injured and on the verge of dying. But there are other possibilities, such as some non-physical attacks being used on him, such as sealing Jutsu. Or he was almost completely drained of Chakra. There is many possibilities because it was not explained what happened at that time.

It is possible, Tobirama was ambushed and managed to escape but then sacrificed himself and fought Kinkaku force.

 

[Lariatoo]

Up until now, any team named after someone was a team lead by that person. Like Team Tobirama, Team Kakashi and other teams. Unless otherwise stated, I believe it is safe to assume Kinkaku was in that team. And considering Kinkaku and Ginkaku fought together, I would assume Ginkaku as well.

Also, we can't really know whether it was two events or not. It could have been the same event. Or maybe it happened the same day. Tobirama being nearly dead can be interpreted in many ways. It could mean he was injured and on the verge of dying. But there are other possibilities, such as some non-physical attacks being used on him, such as sealing Jutsu. Or he was almost completely drained of Chakra. There is many possibilities because it was not explained what happened at that time.

It is possible, Tobirama was ambushed and managed to escape but then sacrificed himself and fought Kinkaku force.

I personally like that theory that that ceremony where they were ambushed was a plot all along by Kumo to take down the Hokage by surprise and kickstart a war in the lead, but Tobirama managed to survive and escape with a handful of jonin, only to be promptly hunted by the Kinkaku squad.

 

[SW442]

Up until now, any team named after someone was a team lead by that person. Like Team Tobirama, Team Kakashi and other teams. Unless otherwise stated, I believe it is safe to assume Kinkaku was in that team. And considering Kinkaku and Ginkaku fought together, I would assume Ginkaku as well.

Also, we can't really know whether it was two events or not. It could have been the same event. Or maybe it happened the same day. Tobirama being nearly dead can be interpreted in many ways. It could mean he was injured and on the verge of dying. But there are other possibilities, such as some non-physical attacks being used on him, such as sealing Jutsu. Or he was almost completely drained of Chakra. There is many possibilities because it was not explained what happened at that time.

It is possible, Tobirama was ambushed and managed to escape but then sacrificed himself and fought Kinkaku force.

By that token, if KinGin were both in it, why would it only be named after 1 of them? It's no issue saying KinGin Kyoda", so "KinGin Butai" wouldn't be hard either. KinGin were a team, and treated one another as equals, even though Kin seemed to be stronger. So, if they had a team, leadership would be shared among them. They don't call each other "The Kinkaku Brothers."

I think people are making it more complicated than it should be. The verge of death. Kishi drew the Kage with blood splattered around them. KinGin bloodied them up when there, and they were left in critical condition. It was a physical beat down. Sealing doesn't leave blood behind-we saw that with Samui, Atsui, and Ginkaku. The Kage didn't get sealed.

I don't think it's as complex as some fans seem determined to make it. Databook states KinGin faught the Kage with those weapons, and Kyuubi chakra. But nothing was said of the Kinkaku Unit when mentioning the brothers. The Kinkaku Unit was mentioned on Tobirama's page, but didn't mention KinGin specifically in that confrontation. Kishi seems to keep them separate. Only thing shared is a name. It was a simple battle, where Tobirama and the Riakage lost. But Tobirama at least was able to get medical attention, and recover from his injuries, until his official death in the forest.

But if we have to get complex, I could say Kishi just used the name for the force as a reference of Journey to the West. But it was a good bit before the war arc, where he probably hadn't thought to include the actual Gold Horn and Silver Horn, from Journey to the West, along with their weapons. KinGin could have been a thought he had later, and thus we have this case with a character sharing a name with something else, even if they may not be affiliated, in the sense he was there. Sometimes authors don't plan absolutely everything out in advance. And I think Kishi admitted to that.

Just seems simple that it was 2 events.

 

[Narutobirama]

By that token, if KinGin were both in it, why would it only be named after 1 of them? It's no issue saying KinGin Kyoda", so "KinGin Butai" wouldn't be hard either. KinGin were a team, and treated one another as equals, even though Kin seemed to be stronger. So, if they had a team, leadership would be shared among them. They don't call each other "The Kinkaku Brothers."

I think people are making it more complicated than it should be. The verge of death. Kishi drew the Kage with blood splattered around them. KinGin bloodied them up when there, and they were left in critical condition. It was a physical beat down. Sealing doesn't leave blood behind-we saw that with Samui, Atsui, and Ginkaku. The Kage didn't get sealed.

I don't think it's as complex as some fans seem determined to make it. Databook states KinGin faught the Kage with those weapons, and Kyuubi chakra. But nothing was said of the Kinkaku Unit when mentioning the brothers. The Kinkaku Unit was mentioned on Tobirama's page, but didn't mention KinGin specifically in that confrontation. Kishi seems to keep them separate. Only thing shared is a name. It was a simple battle, where Tobirama and the Riakage lost. But Tobirama at least was able to get medical attention, and recover from his injuries, until his official death in the forest.

But if we have to get complex, I could say Kishi just used the name for the force as a reference of Journey to the West. But it was a good bit before the war arc, where he probably hadn't thought to include the actual Gold Horn and Silver Horn, from Journey to the West, along with their weapons. KinGin could have been a thought he had later, and thus we have this case with a character sharing a name with something else, even if they may not be affiliated, in the sense he was there. Sometimes authors don't plan absolutely everything out in advance. And I think Kishi admitted to that.

Just seems simple that it was 2 events.

I am not saying that it was a complex situation but it might have been one. Very important things were left out so unless we get more information we won't be able to know what happened.

Also, Kinkaku was clearly stronger and even Ginkaku seemed to follow what Kinkaku's plans. Even the name Kinkaku means gold, while Ginkaku silver, so clearly Kinkaku was above Ginkaku. And Kinkaku was probably the older one. So, it is very possible the team would be called Kinkaku team.

Obviously, when Kinkaku team was first mentioned, they were unknown. But, since he knew that Tobirama sacrificed himself against Kinkaku team, he decided to create Kinkaku and Ginkaku. In my opinion, they were in the team. And possibly Kakuzu because he seemed to know Kinkaku and Ginkaku and he admitted he lost two or three hearts some time after his fight with Hashirama.

 

[ToshiZO]

lol no those were two completely seperate events.

 

[Narutobirama]

lol no those were two completely seperate events.

It is possible they were separate events but it is not confirmed they were or that they weren't.

 

[SW442]

I am not saying that it was a complex situation but it might have been one. Very important things were left out so unless we get more information we won't be able to know what happened.

Also, Kinkaku was clearly stronger and even Ginkaku seemed to follow what Kinkaku's plans. Even the name Kinkaku means gold, while Ginkaku silver, so clearly Kinkaku was above Ginkaku. And Kinkaku was probably the older one. So, it is very possible the team would be called Kinkaku team.

Obviously, when Kinkaku team was first mentioned, they were unknown. But, since he knew that Tobirama sacrificed himself against Kinkaku team, he decided to create Kinkaku and Ginkaku. In my opinion, they were in the team. And possibly Kakuzu because he seemed to know Kinkaku and Ginkaku and he admitted he lost two or three hearts some time after his fight with Hashirama.

Regarding their ages, it's unknown what the deal is. Some say Ginkaku is older.

Databook gave their info.
Kinkaku = 44, born Mar. 7
Ginkaku = 44. born Apr. 9


So, 3 possibilities.

1. They're fraternal twins, and Kinkaku was born early.
2. They're half-brothers, and their father got two women pregnant, around the same time
3. Ginkaku is older, and they died between March 7-April 9, before he turned 45.

The first 2, is not enough difference to mean much. So, it's not like Kinkaku, even if he was older, would have years of experience over Ginkaku. There's only 1 month difference in their existences. So, they're close enough to have learned and experienced everything together, seeing as they always seem to be together.

But, why would Kinkaku take the lead over a team, and have his brother below him to the point, he's no different than the other 18 ninja there. When he doesn't do that with their team? They are the Gold & Silver Brothers. Ginkaku's name is not excluded from that, even though he may be weaker. They are a team, and credited as such. So I don't see why it'd be excluded from leadership of a team they both commanded. Or that Kinkaku would have his own team over his brother, and he'd just be the tag-along, so unimportant that his name not be included, or worth mentioning.

 

[Narutobirama]

Regarding their ages, it's unknown what the deal is. Some say Ginkaku is older.

Databook gave their info.
Kinkaku = 44, born Mar. 7
Ginkaku = 44. born Apr. 9


So, 3 possibilities.

1. They're fraternal twins, and Kinkaku was born early.
2. They're half-brothers, and their father got two women pregnant, around the same time
3. Ginkaku is older, and they died between March 7-April 9, before he turned 45.

The first 2, is not enough difference to mean much. So, it's not like Kinkaku, even if he was older, would have years of experience over Ginkaku. There's only 1 month difference in their existences. So, they're close enough to have learned and experienced everything together, seeing as they always seem to be together.

But, why would Kinkaku take the lead over a team, and have his brother below him to the point, he's no different than the other 18 ninja there. When he doesn't do that with their team? They are the Gold & Silver Brothers. Ginkaku's name is not excluded from that, even though he may be weaker. They are a team, and credited as such. So I don't see why it'd be excluded from leadership of a team they both commanded. Or that Kinkaku would have his own team over his brother, and he'd just be the tag-along, so unimportant that his name not be included, or worth mentioning.

Well, there could have been a number of reasons for why Kinkaku would be the leader. Maybe he had better leadership skills, so he became the leader. Maybe Ginkaku did not mind his brother being the leader.

But why would team call themselves Kinkaku team? In my opinion, it is because Kinkaku was their leader. Other options would be that the leader was some other Shinobi named Kinkaku. But that person was never mentioned, while the Kinkaku was mentioned and on top of that fought Tobirama. So I believe it is likelier it was named after Kinkaku. Other reasons would include team naming themselves after some person not in their team but that is very unlikely.

 

[SW442]

Well, there could have been a number of reasons for why Kinkaku would be the leader. Maybe he had better leadership skills, so he became the leader. Maybe Ginkaku did not mind his brother being the leader.

But why would team call themselves Kinkaku team? In my opinion, it is because Kinkaku was their leader. Other options would be that the leader was some other Shinobi named Kinkaku. But that person was never mentioned, while the Kinkaku was mentioned and on top of that fought Tobirama. So I believe it is likelier it was named after Kinkaku. Other reasons would include team naming themselves after some person not in their team but that is very unlikely.

Well, Navy Seals aren't actually seals are they? And they're not led by seals either lol

Aside from a name, Kishi has never mentioned KinGin or the Kinkaku Butai in the same sentence. They're always separated. So, like that, seems clear the events were separated, and people are grasping a bit.

Databook gave Tobirama's info. Killed by the Kinkaku Unti. No mention of the brothers in his death. Wouldn't be hard to add, "Tobirama killed by the Kinkaku Unit, led by the infamous Gold and Silver Brothers."

Then when talking of the weapons in the databook, the brothers get mentioned using those and Kyuubi chakra to beat the Kage. No mention of a squad being with them.