[Discussion] Marineford power levels

ToshiZO

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Portrayal puts them on them same level but not that's close, Kizaru is a 98 or 97 for me.
I saw your list and we agree that Akainu and Aokiji should have the same number. I'll explain why I think Kizaru does as well.

The war is a perfect setting for portrayal, we got to see all 3 Admirals side by side. Now we all know Oda loves to do a hierarchy with his matchups (Sanji fights 3rd, Zoro 2nd, Luffy 1st ) He did the same thing during Marineford.

Akainu fights WB (Captain)

Kizaru fights Marco (2nd strongest)

Aokiji fights Jozu (3rd strongest)



and then again when Shanks appeared

Akainu stopped by Shanks (Captain)

Kizaru stopped by Ben Beckman (Vice Captain)

No one stops Aokiji


And via Akainu vs Aokiji we saw how close someone who was portrayed as 3rd is to someone who was portrayed as 1st, meaning there is barely a gap between all 3 of them.
 
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Venomous Cobra

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What's the basis for this, they're on the same level yeah but Akainu is stronger.
Well for one akainu shown no speed or good reflex that could make him react to light speed, He may react to kizaru in his base form but when he completely transforms into light I'd highly doubt that he would be able to that. And . Also other than his brute strength( ) and his ridiculously destructive light attacks, you have to admit that his haki was also closer to akainu than we thought, While akainu was hit by marco and felt pain to some degree, kizaru was just sent flying by marco but didn't even have a scratch or even show any sign of feeling pain or annoyance at all, kizaru was shown to be an excellent swordsman who overwhelmed a monster like rayleigh without even going all out.


There's just really nothing that suggests that akainu is stronger even by a little
 

Relostar Devil

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You put Croc above Jinbe. I want an actual reason why so many people are above WB, not the bs reason you gave.
He was shown in the ANIME first that's why he have to be weak but in war he fought with doffy and if he appear once again in new world than I'm pretty sure He will fight equally with luffy g4 just like doffy.
 

Phoenix110

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Whitebeard-100
Shanks-99
Miahwk-99
Garp-98
Akainu-98
Sengoku-97
Aokiji-96
Kizaru-96
Benn Beckmann-93
Blackbeard(Gura)-89
Marco-88
Jozu-85
Vista-85
Doflamingo-84
Hancock-84
Ace-80
Jinbe-80
Ivankov-80
Kuma-75
Crocodile-68
Smoker-60
Luffy-60
Moriah-55

Not that great with number scales as I don't do it often.
Too lazy to post all that bit this is kinda close to what I think
 

Uzumaki Macho

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He was shown in the ANIME first that's why he have to be weak but in war he fought with doffy and if he appear once again in new world than I'm pretty sure He will fight equally with luffy g4 just like doffy.
He attacked Doflamingo with his hook and Doflamingo casually blocked it with his foot. How is that impressive?
 

ultraChalk

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Btw Darkest Soul, when I said this, I was referring to g*oddamn Artorias.....overpowered bastard gave me nightmares in my first playthrough.....
First I read that post and was like
You must be registered for see images


Then I read this. :lmao: The feeling is mutual.

That's probably what he was thinking but it would make no sense if that were the case. Why would Oda even bother naming WB the World's Strongest Man?
You must be registered for see images
Even Akainu said it himself, and you can see here that his sickness is crippling him. And that was to hype him up so that we know what to expect. Not implying he was a disappointment by any means, but that was just to hype him up.

You're utterly insane if you think an old and sick Whitebeard can beat Shanks in his prime. And that's just how I feel.
 

Punk Hazard

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First I read that post and was like
You must be registered for see images


Then I read this. :lmao: The feeling is mutual.

You must be registered for see images
Even Akainu said it himself, and you can see here that his sickness is crippling him. And that was to hype him up so that we know what to expect. Not implying he was a disappointment by any means, but that was just to hype him up.

You're utterly insane if you think an old and sick Whitebeard can beat Shanks in his prime. And that's just how I feel.
What people don't realize is that while Whitebeard possesses the powers that made him get the title, as an old man, he can't use them as well Or fight to his fullest. Whitebeard earned the title of WSM, but his old age makes him weaker than he normally should be.
 

sandyjoe

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white beard 100
shanks 115
miahawk 105
akainu 105
sengoku 100
garp 115
aokiji 107
kizaru 95
black beard 80
black beard(gura) 90
marco 80
jozu 60
vista 70
doflamingo 70
ace 60
hancock 55
jinbe 55
ivankov 60
kuma 55
smoker 35
luffy 30
moria 28
 

-Akuma-

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I saw your list and we agree that Akainu and Aokiji should have the same number. I'll explain why I think Kizaru does as well.

The war is a perfect setting for portrayal, we got to see all 3 Admirals side by side. Now we all know Oda loves to do a hierarchy with his matchups (Sanji fights 3rd, Zoro 2nd, Luffy 1st ) He did the same thing during Marineford.

Akainu fights WB (Captain)

Kizaru fights Marco (2nd strongest)

Aokiji fights Jozu (3rd strongest)



and then again when Shanks appeared

Akainu stopped by Shanks (Captain)

Kizaru stopped by Ben Beckman (Vice Captain)

No one stops Aokiji


And via Akainu vs Aokiji we saw how close someone who was portrayed as 3rd is to someone who was portrayed as 1st, meaning there is barely a gap between all 3 of them.
That's not a accurate portrayal at all, Marco fought against Kuzan and Kizaru while Kizaru didn't want to fight Marco by himself he had to cuff him.

When Shanks appeared Kuzan never took the offensive that's why he wasn't stopped non of the comparisons are really valid.



Wow really Cobra, Kizaru only moves light speed during one and he has to materialize to attack Akainu can easily react to the attack after he materialises. Even Rayleigh was able to, Maroc and Vista htting him doesn't prove anything because they bot really came out of nowhere and Akainu didn't try to dodge. Akainu being able ot fight against WB proves he has good reactions. As for haki Akainu has the best haki out the Admirals, he was attacked by haki user and cut but still didn't bleed. While what you pointed out was more a show of durability from Kizaru, if you really want to talk about durability Akainu has the best out of the Admirals by far. As for his laser pretty sure he re-gen straight after Marco literally took a barrage of laser from him earlier, the only person to leave lasting injury on Marco as Garp.
 
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Venomous Cobra

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Wow really Cobra, Kizaru only moves light speed during one and he has to materialize to attack Akainu can easily react to the attack after he materialises. Even Rayleigh was able to, Maroc and Vista htting him doesn't prove anything because they bot really came out of nowhere and Akainu didn't try to dodge. Akainu being able ot fight against WB proves he has good reactions. As for haki Akainu has the best haki out the Admirals, he was attacked by haki user and cut but still didn't bleed. While what you pointed out was more a show of durability from Kizaru, if you really want to talk about durability Akainu has the best out of the Admirals by far. As for his laser pretty sure he re-gen straight after Marco literally took a barrage of laser from him earlier, the only person to leave lasting injury on Marco as Garp.

Completely materializing is not necessary, he could only materialize the limb of which he's using and either way akainu has never shown feats of reacting to anyone at kizaru's speed or even close. Rayleigh was being overwhelmed by kizaru, that's not really the right analogy to use here. And yeah it does, it proves that akainu is not the type to react to stuff or rather use speed to dodge, so the whole argument of akainu being able to dodge attacks of kizaru can now rest in piece as the man is yet to dodge or react anything fast. He didn't even see vista and marco cutting until the damage was already done, it was a blitz but it was useless. WB as an old man was never that fast at striking or moving, his reaction however was good which gives akainu good feats of reaction but it's ultimately nothing challenging for kizaru. I agree, in terms of durability akainu is better, but in terms of haki I truly believe that they're equal, after kizaru took a kick from marco and he instantly got up like nothing happened which is kind of equivalent to akainu tanking their attack, his haki isn't that much since it didn't nullify the pain while kizaru's did.

But my overall point is that they're equal
 

ToshiZO

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That's not a accurate portrayal at all, Marco fought against Kuzan and Kizaru while Kizaru didn't want to fight Marco by himself he had to cuff him.

When Shanks appeared Kuzan never took the offensive that's why he wasn't stopped non of the comparisons are really valid.
Kuzan was freezing the water.

And no we all know for the most part it was Kizaru vs Marco, Aokiji vs Jozu and Akainu vs WB. Each of them had brief scuffles with the other but it was Aokiji who got rid of Jozu, it was Kizaru who was shooting beams to weaken Marco when he had on the cuffs, and obviously Akainu and a couple good meetings with Whitebeard.

You can deny all you want but those were the most focused on matchups. Now thats 1 Yonkou crew out of the way.

In comes the Red Hair Pirates. Now guess what? Once again Akainu is matched up with Shanks the Yonkou crew captain, Kizaru gets Beckman you think Oda is doing this just for fun?

Through 2 Yonkou crews we have Akainu being paired with the Captain and Kizaru being paired with the Second hand man. Whatever circumstances are involved, these matchups hold true. This is clean portrayal.

How can the strongest man not defeat other men in 1v1? Even when sick, WB was directly called the WSM numerous times.
Maybe because he got that title in his prime? People fall off, father time catches up you can't be the strongest forever, the war was Oda telling us many times WB is no longer at the top of the food chain any more, his time has passed and its a new era.
 

Uzumaki Macho

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Kuzan was freezing the water.

And no we all know for the most part it was Kizaru vs Marco, Aokiji vs Jozu and Akainu vs WB. Each of them had brief scuffles with the other but it was Aokiji who got rid of Jozu, it was Kizaru who was shooting beams to weaken Marco when he had on the cuffs, and obviously Akainu and a couple good meetings with Whitebeard.

You can deny all you want but those were the most focused on matchups. Now thats 1 Yonkou crew out of the way.

In comes the Red Hair Pirates. Now guess what? Once again Akainu is matched up with Shanks the Yonkou crew captain, Kizaru gets Beckman you think Oda is doing this just for fun?

Through 2 Yonkou crews we have Akainu being paired with the Captain and Kizaru being paired with the Second hand man. Whatever circumstances are involved, these matchups hold true. This is clean portrayal.


Maybe because he got that title in his prime? People fall off, father time catches up you can't be the strongest forever, the war was Oda telling us many times WB is no longer at the top of the food chain any more, his time has passed and its a new era.
WB was introduced as the WSM when he was old and sick. Why would Oda bother introducing him as the WSM of it isn't true?
 

jiraiya lives

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I saw your list and we agree that Akainu and Aokiji should have the same number. I'll explain why I think Kizaru does as well.

The war is a perfect setting for portrayal, we got to see all 3 Admirals side by side. Now we all know Oda loves to do a hierarchy with his matchups (Sanji fights 3rd, Zoro 2nd, Luffy 1st ) He did the same thing during Marineford.

Akainu fights WB (Captain)

Kizaru fights Marco (2nd strongest)

Aokiji fights Jozu (3rd strongest)



and then again when Shanks appeared

Akainu stopped by Shanks (Captain)

Kizaru stopped by Ben Beckman (Vice Captain)

No one stops Aokiji


And via Akainu vs Aokiji we saw how close someone who was portrayed as 3rd is to someone who was portrayed as 1st, meaning there is barely a gap between all 3 of them.
Hmm interesting. I've never really looked at it like this, prior to the war Oda also had Kizaru be the one to fight Rayleigh. So far he's been matched up with 3 right hand men of 3 of the most notorious and powerful pirate crews ever.... Another thing to note, though it may not mean much is the fact that leading up to marineford the admirals were introduced in the order of Aokiji - Kizaru - Akainu
 

ToshiZO

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WB was introduced as the WSM when he was old and sick. Why would Oda bother introducing him as the WSM of it isn't true?
Whats wrong with him being introduced as the Worlds Strongest Man? Since at one point he was and until you fight him for it and beat him his title remains.

A title is only truly valid if it is being tested. The test was the War and Oda clearly showed Wb was no longer the man who had received that title.

In a 1v1 WB doesn't even have a 5% chance to take down the likes of Akainu. And I'll explain why.
This is to everyone else as well who thinks WB could have beaten Shanks, Akainu, or the other Admirals.

1. Many people bring up the stab wound he got as the reason he was so weakened BUT its the very fact that someone of that caliber could give WB that stab wound is what makes him weak. Crocodile said
Marco immediately . Notice two things with Marco's statement. People always complain about Squards attack being a cheapshot but Oda doesn't allow that to be used as an excuse, the other thing look at the emphasis on the life support WB was on. WB had to be under constant medical care on his ship as soon as he takes those off his health is in jeopardy

2. Whitebeard not once could damage an Admiral during the war (with an exception I'll get into later). VS / VS / VS

Not once was he shown superior to an Admiral.

It took Ace's death AND a complete for WB to damage an Admiral and despite all this Akainu took half his head arguably dealing just as much lasting damage as he received from WB. WB had to be in Rage mode AND needed a cheapshot.

3. WB could not handle battling a top tier for too long at his condition. This is the most important one and it absolutely can't be argued.

In the middle of his battle with Akainu WB suffers a notice what Akainu says (once again Oda letting us know his era is over).

This is what Marco had to once again building up from his thoughts last time when he got stabbed. Meaning Marco clearly knew WB would eventually succumb to this whilst fighting.

NOW WB is wiiide open for an against a top tier, this was in a way plot shield Akainu could have gone for the head if he wanted but that wouldn't work for the plot.

Here is more , Sengoku is telling fodders to attack WB and even they are able to damage him, IMAGINE what Akainu could have done during this time ATLEAST one more magma punch could have been givin to WB during this time.

SO whether or not you think Akainu could have ended WB then and there, WB even if he would have survived would have been in a downward struggle losing battle as he already has massive damage taken while Akainu has nothing.


There is no way in hell WB could have taken on any one on Akainu's level with his ongoing problems, do you realize how long top tiers can fight against each other ? You think WB wouldn't suffer some sort of health related issue during a battle with Shanks or Akainu/other Admirals? That is a joke if I've ever heard one.

Like I said WB Cannot beat Shanks, Akainu, Kizaru or Kuzan at that stage of the story. Its right there smack dab for us to take in but most of you can't get past the title and see what Oda was trying to show with the whole Start of a new Era parallel.



@Jiraiya Lives
Yea I was gonna write those two things out as well but they arent as solid (especially the order of appearance), well aware of those, nice catch.
 
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