[Discussion] Plotholes with HxH *gasp*

[Avani]

Gyo was introduced in the Heaven's Arena arc. Gon used it to see Hisoka's Bungee Gum in their fight while Machi and Wing did the same thing to see through Hisoka's In which was then taught to Gon, Killua and Zushi as they replayed the fight to learn to see through his In. So it was already a concept that existed before and during the Phantom Troupe arc and the Spidera are top tier Nen users, if Machi could use it. There is no reason to suspect the others couldn't do it either. Assuming they couldn't, Machi should've been enough. To see through his tricks at one point but at another time forgetting to use it is an amateur mistake. One that Bisky made sure to correct about Gon and Killua by making them use Gyo everytime she pointed her finger. The Phantom Troupe aren't amateurs, they're professionals.

Sometimes it's just for the convenience of the plot you know and you have to give a writer some rope. If no one made a mistake and did everything right all the time one may not have a story to tell. Just imagine - what would have happened if the King and his bodyguards would have fought a more coordinated fight with Gon and company? Chimeras lost because each of them was doing things on his own by the end and they didn't act as a unit. They thought they were doing their best in the kings interest but their decisions were individual decisions and not coordinated and in the end it didn't work out neither for them nor their king. But would you prefer it in any other way?

 

[Yubel]

Sometimes it's just for the convenience of the plot you know and you have to give a writer some rope. If no one made a mistake and did everything right all the time one may not have a story to tell. Just imagine - what would have happened if the King and his bodyguards would have fought a more coordinated fight with Gon and company? Chimeras lost because each of them was doing things on his own by the end and they didn't act as a unit. They thought they were doing their best in the kings interest but their decisions were individual decisions and not coordinated and in the end it didn't work out neither for them nor their king. But would you prefer it in any other way?

That is known as plot shield to protect the main characters for the continuation of the story. This however, wasn't a plot shield. It was a plot hole, nothing in particular made them commit this mistake that made them lose their boss and Pakunoda. If they would've used Gyo they would've seen through the Bungee Gum attached to the paper of Hisoka's fortune and then would've further suspected him. Once they've read the real thing they would've killed Hisoka, gone back to Meteor City and avoided the entire prophecy.

 

[Freecss]

Zhoom brought up quite a really good point. One of their rules is not to fight someone in the Troupe. They left everything at Chrollo's hand considering he was the leader. It was Chrollo's choice. Also they didn't want to cause trouble with Hisoka.

 

[Avani]

That is known as plot shield to protect the main characters for the continuation of the story. This however, wasn't a plot shield. It was a plot hole, nothing in particular made them commit this mistake that made them lose their boss and Pakunoda. If they would've used Gyo they would've seen through the Bungee Gum attached to the paper of Hisoka's fortune and then would've further suspected him. Once they've read the real thing they would've killed Hisoka, gone back to Meteor City and avoided the entire prophecy.

Some of you are too nit picky. Writer did give an explanation on his part. Whether it convinced you or not is another matter. I myself found Hisoka's presence in Phantom troupe and subsequently in Greed island a little too convenient but that's it. For me it's not enough to call it a plot hole.

 

[Yubel]

Some of you are too nit picky. Writer did give an explanation on his part. Whether it convinced you or not is another matter. I myself found Hisoka's presence in Phantom troupe and subsequently in Greed island a little too convenient but that's it. For me it's not enough to call it a plot hole.

Maybe it doesn't matter to you because you don't care but I found this being Togashi's mistake of planning bigger things for Hisoka yet having written himself into a corner so he had to nerf the Troupe's intelligence to give himself a pass.

 

[Avani]

Maybe it doesn't matter to you because you don't care but I found this being Togashi's mistake of planning bigger things for Hisoka yet having written himself into a corner so he had to nerf the Troupe's intelligence to give himself a pass.

That's if he planned something that big for Hisoka ...And I can agree with nurfing intelligence to an extent against the plothole argument. A plothole for me is something that cannot be explained at all. :shrug:

 

[Yubel]

That's if he planned something that big for Hisoka ...And I can agree with nurfing intelligence to an extent against the plothole argument. A plothole for me is something that cannot be explained at all. :shrug:

Not seeing through his cheap trick was a plot hole.

 

[Avani]

Not seeing through his cheap trick was a plot hole.

Well then what makes you think that Togashi had planned something big for a character like Hisoka? He seems to be a character to be brought in when needed and then dropped when that specific task is done. He wanted to have an ultimate fight with Gon but unless Gon gets his nen back that wouldn't happen. Frankly I don't see his story going anywhere at the moment. As things are now, I hope we get to see the rest of the dark continent arc first. ....

 

[Yubel]

Well then what makes you think that Togashi had planned something big for a character like Hisoka? He seems to be a character to be brought in when needed and then dropped when that specific task is done. He wanted to have an ultimate fight with Gon but unless Gon gets his nen back that wouldn't happen. Frankly I don't see his story going anywhere at the moment. As things are now, I hope we get to see the rest of the dark continent arc first. ....

Hisoka is a character that is saved to be one of Gon's greatest enemies. He is also a character that has shown he has more of a role to play then any other villian. That's why he wouldn't get killed by people like the Phantom Troupe. Gon has also gotten his Nen back, he just couldn't use it in the latest chapters for some reason but Hisoka doesn't care, if Gon loses his nen he'll be just like Chrollo to him, a broken toy. My point is Hisoka is the most important villian because he was there since the first arc and is still alive when other villians are dead or disabled.

 

[Avani]

Hisoka is a character that is saved to be one of Gon's greatest enemies. He is also a character that has shown he has more of a role to play then any other villian. That's why he wouldn't get killed by people like the Phantom Troupe. Gon has also gotten his Nen back, he just couldn't use it in the latest chapters for some reason but Hisoka doesn't care, if Gon loses his nen he'll be just like Chrollo to him, a broken toy. My point is Hisoka is the most important villian because he was there since the first arc and is still alive when other villians are dead or disabled.

Currently he is a villain for hire, with no actual aim other than one day fighting and beating up a new upcoming star or the likes that already are one... No matter how dangerous he is, he is just a psychopathic creep. Though of course he can be scarier than the Chimera king or his bodyguards or the dark continent characters but unless Togashi does some kind of BZ versions for him it would be hard for him to match with them...

 

[Yubel]

Currently he is a villain for hire, with no actual aim other than one day fighting and beating up a new upcoming star or the likes that already are one... No matter how dangerous he is, he is just a psychopathic creep. Though of course he can be scarier than the Chimera king or his bodyguards or the dark continent characters but unless Togashi does some kind of BZ versions for him it would be hard for him to match with them...

What is BZ? Hisoka might not be as good as the strongest HxH characters but he is up there + he is way more savvy than most of them but he failed against the Phantom Troupe in this regard, Togashi had to save him.

 

[Avani]

Togashi had to save him.

Ain't that the truth? And they weren't even the biggest bad yet. I rest my case.

 

[Yubel]

Ain't that the truth? And they weren't even the biggest bad yet. I rest my case.

You didn't have a case, I said it was a plot hole and you now agree with me suddently. It's quite obvious Hisoka isn't strong enough to take on the entire Troupe, I only see the King managing such a feat. However he is the most important villian in the series because of him being there almost every arc and he will continue to be there when every other villian is gone. I said that his scheme against the Phantom Troupe to make them stay was a plot hole because it actually failed and Togashi had to give him a pass. I didn't argue whether it was good or bad, whether Hisoka is the strongest or not, that's where you directed the topic out of nowhere.

 

[Avani]

You didn't have a case, I said it was a plot hole and you now agree with me suddently. It's quite obvious Hisoka isn't strong enough to take on the entire Troupe, I only see the King managing such a feat. However he is the most important villian in the series because of him being there almost every arc and he will continue to be there when every other villian is gone. I said that his scheme against the Phantom Troupe to make them stay was a plot hole because it actually failed and Togashi had to give him a pass. I didn't argue whether it was good or bad, whether Hisoka is the strongest or not, that's where you directed the topic out of nowhere.

I already told you my opinion about your initial post before Post 28. Post 28 onwards I was pointing out that your initial argument makes an opposite suggestion about Hisoka's capabilities and future than your own high personal hopes for that character. I also suggested that you are expecting to him to be more than he looks the way BZ in Naruto. :shrug:

 

[Yubel]

I already told you my opinion about your initial post before Post 28. Post 28 onwards I was pointing out that your initial argument makes an opposite suggestion about Hisoka's capabilities and future than your own high personal hopes for that character. I also suggested that you are expecting to him to be more than he looks the way BZ in Naruto. :shrug:

So what if it does? It simply means that I'm being real, I don't automatically associate being an important villian with being the strongest. That would be like saying Gon must be the strongest character in the series otherwise he can't be the protagonist. The importance of the character doesn't necessarily imply strength and my personal hopes for the character doesn't diminish my argument in anyway. Even if he was the most op villian in the series capable of taking out the Phantom Troupe solo he still should've gotten exposed with his trick there.

 

[Avani]

So what if it does? It simply means that I'm being real,......

Why so defensive? It was just an observation.

 

[Yubel]

Why so defensive? It was just an observation.

Why the ad hominem? I was simply wondering why it was relevant and you ignored the rest of my reply.

 

[Avani]

Why the ad hominem? I was simply wondering why it was relevant and you ignored the rest of my reply.

So the only way you can reply a question is by asking anther question and avoiding it. It was relevant because you made both the statements. I am not interested in replying rest of it. It's not like you are interested in what others have to say. You have been only pushing for your personal view dogmatically with little consideration for what others have to say about something. And people can see that. If you notice others left the thread long time ago. It's now my turn.

 

[Yubel]

So the only way you can reply a question is by asking anther question and avoiding it. It was relevant because you made both the statements. I am not interested in replying rest of it. It's not like you are interested in what others have to say. You have been only pushing for your personal view dogmatically with little consideration for what others have to say about something. And people can see that. If you notice others left the thread long time ago. It's now my turn.

It doesnt matter because I already made my point in the OP, the rest was me adressing any questions anyone might have. You say you're not interested but you didn't have a counter-argument so you resort to ad hominem and when I call you out on it you run away, I don't want to waste my time with someone who use logical fallacies, bye.

 

[Avani]

It doesnt matter because I already made my point in the OP, the rest was me adressing any questions anyone might have. You say you're not interested but you didn't have a counter-argument so you resort to ad hominem and when I call you out on it you run away, I don't want to waste my time with someone who use logical fallacies, bye.

LOl Don't you think you need to understand the distinction between an argument or a statement of fact before you can cry fallacies?

If you made your point already so did I. Agree to disagree rather than trying to make up for lack of a convincing argument with rudeness.