[VS] VOTE 3: Sasuke vs Naruto

[KidGamer65]

Not at all, how is losing his new mode the same as loosing chakra? It'd be worse if I said Sasuke lost his Rinnegan but that's obviously false. Neither would loose their transformations but chakra is entirely possible.


Obtaining Hagoromo's chakra grants the user the Rinnegan. There is an obvious distinction since Kakashi had Rikudo chakra & He didn't manifest Rinnegan (which your saying = Rikudo chakra) & Nagato who had Hagoromo's chakra in his eye sockets. But doesn't seem to have a Rikudo chakra buff like the others.


Hey I believed chapter 700 Sasuke too be much stronger than Rinnegan Sasuke. But Gaiden Sasuke Was not very impressive.
1. He was weaker
2. Loses his powers from Dimension shifting (his chakra grew though)
3. Reacts far slower than the last Sasuke & Rinnegan Sasuke

Thats all

No it's not, and it makes zero sense. Your chakra doesn't vanish into thin air for no reason.

There is no distinction. Not sure why you are trying to argue when Hagoromo clearly stated that Madara awakened HIS chakra. Unless you are telling me that there are multiple Hagoromos running around here, it's all the chakra of one person and one person alone. Rikudo Chakra has a different effect depending on who you are.

1. Only Indra and Ashura incarnates can get the Rinnegan.
2. Nagato never had Hagoromo's chakra. He had the Rinnegan's powerful chakra and that's different.


Wat?

1. Gaiden Sasuke was not weaker than any other version of Sasuke when he was at full power. Stop using Gaiden Sasuke's performance to judge him at full power when he clearly stated that he was weakened from traveling through Kaguya's dimensions.
2. :lol He loses his powers when he uses too much chakra going through her dimensions. How does that have anything to do with Sasuke getting weaker?
3. No, he doesn't. Once again, you are making stuff up. Sasuke had no trouble reacting to anything that came at him during Gaiden, the only issue is when Sarada was about to get killed, so he threw himself in front of the blades.

Gaiden Sasuke is by far the strongest incarnation of Sasuke in the franchise and it isn't even close. Any claims of him being weaker than The Last Sasuke or Manga Sasuke are pretty much unsubstantiated and/or backed by Sasuke's performance when he was stated to be weakened due to using too much power.

 

[Brooks]

He's already been scaled. He and Naruto were on par basically in the movie but Naruto didn't use Ashura Avatar, while Sasuke was using his best thing, PS, so Naruto is stronger.

And do you have any proof Naruto might not use this so call "Ashura Avatar" or is this what they call horse shit?​

 

[Chaosmark101]

there is nothing indicating he doesnt have it. why would he lose it?

not sure how the bold makes sense. are you saying the last sasuke cant do ps chidori or ps sword? his chidori is much stronger than his vote self outside of ps.

lack of feats doesnt mean hes weaker than before. he can shift dimensions, something he couldnt do before which shows he improved further.your chakra logically grows stronger as you age, gaiden sasuke would shit all over his last counterpart.

I don't know why he would lose it. Both Naruto & Sasuke were considerably weaker weren't they?

& The bold meaning he was already able to do more powerful attacks back when he was just 17.

Also I got it,

 

[LuckyMan]

And do you have any proof Naruto might not use this so call "Ashura Avatar" or is this what they call horse shit?​

I never said he might not use it. Spoilers been saying Naruto only used regular Kurama mode (one he used at VOTE 2 before Ashura) so if he and Sasuke were equal then, Naruto will be stronger if he takes it a step further and goes Ashura Avatar.

 

[Brooks]

I never said he might not use it. Spoilers been saying Naruto only used regular Kurama mode (one he used at VOTE 2 before Ashura) so if he and Sasuke were equal then, Naruto will be stronger if he takes it a step further and goes Ashura Avatar.

The difference is Kishimoto made the statement of them being on par(the same person who wrote the story and knows how things are going to go), while the individuals who made this spoilers still don't have clear evidence for this statement and are only posting what has already been leaked.​

 

[Chaosmark101]

No it's not, and it makes zero sense. Your chakra doesn't vanish into thin air for no reason.

There is no distinction. Not sure why you are trying to argue when Hagoromo clearly stated that Madara awakened HIS chakra. Unless you are telling me that there are multiple Hagoromos running around here, it's all the chakra of one person and one person alone. Rikudo Chakra has a different effect depending on who you are.

Ok

1. Only Indra and Ashura incarnates can get the Rinnegan.
2. Nagato never had Hagoromo's chakra. He had the Rinnegan's powerful chakra and that's different.

Have a problem with #2. THAT makes no sense.
If Rinnegan = Hagoromo's chakra his dojutsu, how does the user using it not have his chakra? The Rinnegan is his chakra.

1. Gaiden Sasuke was not weaker than any other version of Sasuke when he was at full power. Stop using Gaiden Sasuke's performance to judge him at full power when he clearly stated that he was weakened from traveling through Kaguya's dimensions.
2. :lol He loses his powers when he uses too much chakra going through her dimensions. How does that have anything to do with Sasuke getting weaker?
3. No, he doesn't. Once again, you are making stuff up. Sasuke had no trouble reacting to anything that came at him during Gaiden, the only issue is when Sarada was about to get killed, so he threw himself in front of the blades.

Gaiden Sasuke is by far the strongest incarnation of Sasuke in the franchise and it isn't even close. Any claims of him being weaker than The Last Sasuke or Manga Sasuke are pretty much unsubstantiated and/or backed by Sasuke's performance when he was stated to be weakened due to using too much power.

I concede then

 

[solorflare99]

Kishi said Sasuke is on par with rusty Naruto.

So I think we know who would win.

 

[LuckyMan]

The difference is Kishimoto made the statement of them being on par(the same person who wrote the story and knows how things are going to go), while the individuals who made this spoilers still don't have clear evidence for this statement and are only posting what has already been leaked.​

It was originally leaked by people who saw the early screening of the movie though. We should take it with a grain of salt but I think the spoilers are most likely true.

Kishimoto said they were on par, but from a strictly feat perspective Naruto can mid difficulty Sasuke, Rinnegan mastered or not.

 

[KidGamer65]

Ok


Have a problem with #2. THAT makes no sense.
If Rinnegan = Hagoromo's chakra his dojutsu, how does the user using it not have his chakra? The Rinnegan is his chakra.


I concede then

Hagoromo's chakra awakens the Rinnegan. No one ever said that Rinnegan was his chakra. Ever.

 

[Brooks]

It was originally leaked by people who saw the early screening of the movie though. We should take it with a grain of salt but I think the spoilers are most likely true.

Kishimoto said they were on par, but from a strictly feat perspective Naruto can mid difficulty Sasuke, Rinnegan mastered or not.

Just one more question....which spoiler was it stated Naruto only used regular Kurama mode?​

 

[Zee U]

Well, Kishimoto did indeed say that Sasuke's true abilities were on par with Naruto's, doubt he left out the NE absorption. Considering Japanese's different meanings and complicate wording it's obvious to me that "true abilities" are their strongest ones, which leads to two possible cases:

a. PS isn't Sasuke's strongest tech
b. The constructs weren't equal. I mean, we already had a similar case with the fusion againts JJ Obito where BSM was probably superior to Senjutsu PS, assuming they were equal in the movie without seeing it is a big asumption (and going by the screenshots we only see the fusion attacking with the PS blade and not resorting to BDs)

If Kishimoto left out such a big ability of Naruto's arsenal i don't really know what to say.

 

[Apêx1]

Weight is barely helpful, if at all, PS armoring Gedo doesn't meld their chakra together, and Gedo armored with PS's strength isn't going to be Gedo+PS. PS is just armor when it's used to cover another entity. If he does what Madara did with Kyuubi and has his Susanoo hold the blades, then it will be Susanoo's strength alone behind the blade. If he lets Gedo hold the blade, then it will be Gedo's physical strength....and Gedo Mazo's physical power is nothing compared to Sasuke's Susanoo. So firepower won't change when it comes to PS Slash.

-Gedo's own attacks aren't even worth mentioning here. Wouldn't even harm BM Naruto let alone RSM Naruto. It makes no difference.
-Madara was only able to connect to the Gedo via Hashirama's genetic material. He put the Mazo in the flower, conected it to the Hashirama clone and then had a tube running from the flower to his back. [

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] Sasuke can't even do that. Nor is he going to be able to absorb anything while in Susanoo due to the fact that he can't release chakra while absorbing chakra.

The only way to stop that is to break away from CQC and focus on nukes.

Ok.
-Fair enough, but that still doesn't mean Sasuke can't absorb its chakra with Preta. Itachi has shown to be capable of being seperate from his Susano, so Sasuke simply creates an ethereal area around him in which he absorbs chakra from the Gedo while his own Susano remains unaffected.

Mazo was stated to have an incredible life force, not the life force of the Juubi itself. So no, he's not going to be any pseudo Hagoromo. Not to mention having it only means he gets a giant boost in vitality, not that he gets a massive power up.

1. No, SM is Naruto's power.
2. Yes, there is no definitive reason why it wouldn't count as Naruto's power, but once again, they are shown fighting relatively on par in the movie, and Naruto isn't using his Ashura Avatar. Main reason why it's possible the movie statement refers to Naruto's regular Kurama Avatar.

Ok, still gives him an insane power-up based on the change from 3T Genjutsu to mini-IT level. Doesn't have to become pseudo Hagromo to be superior to Nardo. Genjutsu is Yin yet it got a huge boost from the Gedo. Makes no sense to say it's only boosting vitality, because vitality is Yang. Also, it seems to be a pseudo Juubi based on the fact that it is implied to give the Rinnegan if you're in sync with it (and have Uchiha DNA) [

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].

1. Agreed.
2. No there isn't. Him being able to gather excessive amounts of NE is a part of his power. It also makes no sense to claim they are equals in reference to his regular avatar, unless that's the context it is written in (it isn't though). Kishi stated they're on par, whether Naruto used Asura mode and whether Asura mode is stronger then the avatar he used is pure conjecture at best. Current IC Sasuke=Current IC Nardo. When Sasuke becomes OC and summons the Gedo the tides of the battle change though.

 

[KidGamer65]

Ok.
-Fair enough, but that still doesn't mean Sasuke can't absorb its chakra with Preta. Itachi has shown to be capable of being seperate from his Susano, so Sasuke simply creates an ethereal area around him in which he absorbs chakra from the Gedo while his own Susano remains unaffected.

Ok then, let's say Sasuke absorbs the Gedo's chakra. Still not a big enough boost to gap the bridge between PS and Ashura Avatar, so he still gets whooped.

Ok, still gives him an insane power-up based on the change from 3T Genjutsu to mini-IT level. Doesn't have to become pseudo Hagromo to be superior to Nardo. Genjutsu is Yin yet it got a huge boost from the Gedo. Makes no sense to say it's only boosting vitality, because vitality is Yang.

One that would let him beat Naruto's Avatar or survive it's final attack? No and no. The only way the Gedo boost matters is if Naruto's Avatar really does equal Sasuke's after the 15 yrs of growth.

2. No there isn't. Him being able to gather excessive amounts of NE is a part of his power. It also makes no sense to claim they are equals in reference to his regular avatar, unless that's the context it is written in (it isn't though). Kishi stated they're on par, whether Naruto used Asura mode and whether Asura mode is stronger then the avatar he used is pure conjecture at best. Current IC Sasuke=Current IC Nardo. When Sasuke becomes OC and summons the Gedo the tides of the battle change though.

The context it's written is completely irrelevant when the movie outright shows them fighting on par together, and Naruto is not using his Ashura Avatar. He's using his regular Avatar. I hope the bold isn't saying what I think it's saying.

 

[Apêx1]

Ok then, let's say Sasuke absorbs the Gedo's chakra. Still not a big enough boost to gap the bridge between PS and Ashura Avatar, so he still gets whooped.

You're assuming they progressed equally, but according to Kishi they are on par so Sasuke progressed far more.

One that would let him beat Naruto's Avatar or survive it's final attack? No and no. The only way the Gedo boost matters is if Naruto's Avatar really does equal Sasuke's after the 15 yrs of growth.

Opinionated though, and if they're on par before it then he's above post-Gedo absorption.

The context it's written is completely irrelevant when the movie outright shows them fighting on par together, and Naruto is not using his Ashura Avatar. He's using his regular Avatar. I hope the bold isn't saying what I think it's saying.

Yes, on par. Don't really care what you think, at one thread you jack off to whatever Kishi says because his word is law and at another thread you start acting like it's less relevant then the logic you want to apply. Logic<Kishi=fact. They're on par, and if Naruto was trying his best to survive then he was obviously using his strongest construct.

 

[KidGamer65]

You're assuming they progressed equally, but according to Kishi they are on par so Sasuke progressed far more.

Their on screen performance in battle completely disagrees with this. Though it's hilarious that you think Sasuke would progress so much faster than Naruto would that he'd surpass him when he's also gotten the other half of Kurama.

Opinionated though, and if they're on par before it then he's above post-Gedo absorption.

If the bold were true, but it's not.

Yes, on par. Don't really care what you think, at one thread you jack off to whatever Kishi says because his word is law and at another thread you start acting like it's less relevant then the logic you want to apply. Logic<Kishi=fact. They're on par, and if Naruto was trying his best to survive then he was obviously using his strongest construct.

Lol, you are starting to sound foolish. Stop complaining about Kishi's word and me denying when Kishi's word isn't false. I've already given you a scenario where Kishi's word is true and what we have clearly seen remains true. Naruto and Sasuke are shown to be on par, and Naruto was not using Ashura Avatar.

And now you are claiming that

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, was the Ashura Avatar? :lol. Stop ignoring facts and grasping at straws in order to back up your claims. Do I have to go on Google images and show you pictures of the Ashura Avatar? Because one has three heads and the other doesn't. One has 6 arms and the other doesn't. In fact, let me post another picture.

Spoiler

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Yup. Totally the Ashura Avatar.

 

[Apêx1]

Their on screen performance in battle completely disagrees with this. Though it's hilarious that you think Sasuke would progress so much faster than Naruto would that he'd surpass him when he's also gotten the other half of Kurama.
If the bold were true, but it's not.

Sasuke was always far more talented then that scrub anyways.

Lol, you are starting to sound foolish. Stop complaining about Kishi's word and me denying when Kishi's word isn't false. I've already given you a scenario where Kishi's word is true and what we have clearly seen remains true. Naruto and Sasuke are shown to be on par, and Naruto was not using Ashura Avatar.

And now you are claiming that

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, was the Ashura Avatar? :lol. Stop ignoring facts and grasping at straws in order to back up your claims. Do I have to go on Google images and show you pictures of the Ashura Avatar? Because one has three heads and the other doesn't. One has 6 arms and the other doesn't. In fact, let me post another picture.

Spoiler

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Yup. Totally the Ashura Avatar.

Please quote me saying that avatar is his Asura avatar smh. And if you want to believe that Naruto isn't using his full power to defend what he's tried to defend since chapter 1 then you can go ahead and fallaciously believe that. Meanwhile I'll be sipping on this tea knowing that said avatar had as much chakra imbued into it as the fusion of all the Kurama avatars that created Asura avatar.

 

[KidGamer65]

Sasuke was always far more talented then that scrub anyways.




Please quote me saying that avatar is his Asura avatar smh. And if you want to believe that Naruto isn't using his full power to defend what he's tried to defend since chapter 1 then you can go ahead and fallaciously believe that. Meanwhile I'll be sipping on this tea knowing that said avatar had as much chakra imbued into it as the fusion of all the Kurama avatars that created Asura avatar.

Yet Naruto is still on par with him. :lol

and if Naruto was trying his best to survive then he was obviously using his strongest construct.

Strongest construct for Naruto=His Ashura Avatar w/ the same amount of NE he gathered at VoTE. Either way you meant it, whether what he used in the movie=Ashura Avatar or not, it's still nonsense, and the bold is an assumption a baseless one at that. The amount of chakra used for Naruto's Avatar does not change. He always uses a set amount of chakra. Did it for BSM and BM, and for RSM.

If you want to blatantly ignore the fact that that Naruto's strongest form is

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, and that

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isn't

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, and that for him to reach his peak level of power he needs to take in the excess Nature Energy AND fuse his clones together, then I'll just be sitting here laughing at your attempt to deny fact in an attempt to preserve your argument.

 

[DHOH]

Kishi said Sasuke = Naruto no matter how anyone tries to make their opinions facts..

 

[RustledJimmies]

Sasuke using PS while Naruto is using Kurama avatar doesn't mean that both constructs are on par with each other. That's like me saying that base Sasuke = RSM Naruto without his avatar just because they fought together against momoshiki. Makes no sense, why would kishimoto exclude Naruto's strongest attack from his arsenal when saying sasuke is on par with him?

 

[LuckyMan]

Just one more question....which spoiler was it stated Naruto only used regular Kurama mode?​

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Some are here too.

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Naruto didn't use Gudodama nor Ashura Avatar in the movie but still matched Sasuke. Naruto is stronger of the two, though not sure why you would need spoilers to know that was the case, its been that way forever, its his show.