Naruto>> Sauce's Dimension Shift

[TrollKing]

No. Its not a sharingan/EMS eye technique that is for everyone.
Madara specifically says that he was the only one back in the day, who could see through it.

No other sharingan user has been able to do this if memory serves me right.

Even Obito with the Rinnegan in his eye, couldnt see through clones.

So its not that Rinnegan allows this perse.

Madara was the only ems

Obito was not the original wielder of rinnegan like nagato, so their rinnegan power was very weak in comparison

Limbo >>>>>>>>>>> some clones

If sasuke can see the invisible limbo clone which can not be touched, what stopping him from seeing shadow clones?

 

[Meowazziel]

Madara was the only ems

Obito was not the original wielder of rinnegan like nagato, so their rinnegan power was very weak in comparison

Limbo >>>>>>>>>>> some clones

If sasuke can see the invisible limbo clone which can not be touched, what stopping him from seeing shadow clones?

Because Rinnegan specifically see's the Limbo world.

It doesnt see everything necessarily.

It cant see all the tenketsus for example, which Byakugan can.
It cant see 360 degree almost and very far like Byakugan either.

So Rinnegan having the power to see Limbo, doenst automatically make it able to see the difference between shadow clones and the real person.

Rinnegan can see a a Limbo person in the Limbo world and a non-Limbo person in the normal world.

That is different from seeing the difference between a shadow clone and a real person, who are both in the normal world.

Madara could already see through shadowclones/woodclones and the real person, before he had the Rinnegan. So Rinnegan is not relevant for this discussion in that sense.

So either its an perception ability of the EMS (or someone with Indra in them with EMS), that carries on to your Rinnegan, if you had it as EMS
or it is Madara's unique ability.

I have to assume the latter, as long as I dont see a scan where Sasuke see's through a shadow clone, either through actions, words or both.

 

[TrollKing]

Because Rinnegan specifically see's the Limbo world.

It doesnt see everything necessarily.

It cant see all the tenketsus for example, which Byakugan can.
It cant see 360 degree almost and very far like Byakugan either.

So Rinnegan having the power to see Limbo, doenst automatically make it able to see the difference between shadow clones and the real person.

Rinnegan can see a a Limbo person in the Limbo world and a non-Limbo person in the normal world.

That is different from seeing the difference between a shadow clone and a real person, who are both in the normal world.

Madara could already see through shadowclones/woodclones and the real person, before he had the Rinnegan. So Rinnegan is not relevant for this discussion in that sense.

So either its an perception ability of the EMS (or someone with Indra in them with EMS), that carries on to your Rinnegan, if you had it as EMS
or it is Madara's unique ability.

Here's a scan regarding the eyes of madara 2.0

Spoiler

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Nothing can fool these eyes(but a shadow clone can?) :lol:

 

[Meowazziel]

Here's a scan regarding the eyes of madara 2.0

Nothing can fool these eyes(but a shadow clone can?) :lol:

You dont have to take those words about nothing can fool it, literally.

He wasnt even sure if his daughter was in front of him .

I am not against Sasuke being able to see through clones if that appears to be a fact.
I just want to see enough proof or solid arguments that he can.

Saying things like Rinnegan can see better than EMS, therefore Sasuske can see through clones doesnt work for me.
Same goes for Limbo as explained.

 

[TrollKing]

You dont have to take those words about nothing can fool it, literally.

He wasnt even sure if his daughter was in front of him .

I am not against Sasuke being able to see through clones if that appears to be a fact.
I just want to see enough proof or solid arguments that he can.

Saying things like Rinnegan can see better than EMS, therefore Sasuske can see through clones doesnt work for me.
Same goes for Limbo as explained.

Yes you don't always need to take words too literally.

I should give a more proper translation of those words

"No ordinary jutsu can hide from those eyes"

So I didn't give absolute 100% proof for that even though that might actually be what the scan said

No ordinary meaning jutsu appeared before war arc. Why before war arc? Because war arc bsm and ems were haxx already. After getting rsm and rinnegan, that's even a league above that. And gaiden is 10 years after meaning they are even stronger than war arc

Now bring this shadow clones jutsu to fool these eyes. Seriously it just doesn't make sense. And certainly kishi not intending that. And we also see throughout the manga that sasuke never got fooled by clones except before he got sharingan

 

[Meowazziel]

Kaguya, with her Rinne-Sharingan + Byakugan , couldnt see through clones.
She thought the real Naruto was the one with the Truth seeking balls, but Naruto made a clone wear those and right before that, she thought she had killed the real one in the sand like dimension.

So its not weird if Sasuke is not able to see through shadow clones, if Kaguya failed at it right?

 

[TrollKing]

Kaguya, with her Rinne-Sharingan + Byakugan , couldnt see through clones.
She thought the real Naruto was the one with the Truth seeking balls, but Naruto made a clone wear those and right before that, she thought she had killed the real one in the sand like dimension.

So its not weird if Sasuke is not able to see through shadow clones, if Kaguya failed at it right?

I thought its canon kaguya was stupid and was severely nerfed. She didn't use any rinnegan tech except absorbing chakra so that ama couldn't turn her into ashes

 

[Meowazziel]

I thought its canon kaguya was stupid and was severely nerfed. She didn't use any rinnegan tech except absorbing chakra so that ama couldn't turn her into ashes

Maybe she cant use all the Rinnegan jutsus.

She has a Rinne-Sharingan after all (red Rinnegan with Sharingan 9 tomoe).
Which seems a bit different from a Rinnegan, Sharingan and also from Sasuke his 6 tomoe Rinnegan (white).
As far as we know, Rinnegan and Sharingan have come after her.
Hagoromo with the Rinnegan and Indra with the Sharingan.

Which paths would have been useful in her battle?
Absorbing jutsus. She used that.

Push and pull.
I dont think she used that one and that might have helped in some situations.
Stuff like Chibaku tensei and Shinra tensei comes from this right? So maybe those jutsus were first made by the sage Hagoromo.
That she couldnt do that, because thats how her prison was made?

Some of the paths are Rinnegan only maybe and are not in the Rinne-Sharingan by default.

The other paths werent useful for her in that battle.

 

[TrollingSage]

but its mangafact that sasuke can tell the difference to. Look back at vote1

That was anime only. In other words, filler

Yes you don't always need to take words too literally.

I should give a more proper translation of those words

"No ordinary jutsu can hide from those eyes"

So I didn't give absolute 100% proof for that even though that might actually be what the scan said

No ordinary meaning jutsu appeared before war arc. Why before war arc? Because war arc bsm and ems were haxx already. After getting rsm and rinnegan, that's even a league above that. And gaiden is 10 years after meaning they are even stronger than war arc

Now bring this shadow clones jutsu to fool these eyes. Seriously it just doesn't make sense. And certainly kishi not intending that. And we also see throughout the manga that sasuke never got fooled by clones except before he got sharingan

Shadow clone isn't an ordinary jutsu. It's a forbidden technique which requires an extraordinary amount of chakra to spam the way Naruto does

 

[TrollKing]

That was anime only. In other words, filler

Shadow clone isn't an ordinary jutsu. It's a forbidden technique which requires an extraordinary amount of chakra to spam the way Naruto does

To spam it, yes you need to have a lot of chakra. But only to use it, not that difficult.

 

[TrollKing]

Maybe she cant use all the Rinnegan jutsus.

She has a Rinne-Sharingan after all (red Rinnegan with Sharingan 9 tomoe).
Which seems a bit different from a Rinnegan, Sharingan and also from Sasuke his 6 tomoe Rinnegan (white).
As far as we know, Rinnegan and Sharingan have come after her.
Hagoromo with the Rinnegan and Indra with the Sharingan.

Which paths would have been useful in her battle?
Absorbing jutsus. She used that.

Push and pull.
I dont think she used that one and that might have helped in some situations.
Stuff like Chibaku tensei and Shinra tensei comes from this right? So maybe those jutsus were first made by the sage Hagoromo.
That she couldnt do that, because thats how her prison was made?

Some of the paths are Rinnegan only maybe and are not in the Rinne-Sharingan by default.

The other paths werent useful for her in that battle.

So its either her superior nine tomes is severely nerfed or her eyes just different from rinnegan in many ways, so her lack of feats is hard to account for rinnegan power

 

[Meowazziel]

Maybe the host of Indra, can differentiate between the real host of Asura and a shadow clone?
After all, both Hashirama and Naruto are hosts of Asura and almost nobody used shadowclones back than I think, seeing Tobirama is the inventor of that jutsu.

Maybe seeing through the real one and shadow clones it an EMS ability.

Maybe only hosts of Indra can do it.

Maybe its just unique to Madara.

I dont wanna scan through the whole manga to see Sasuke fall for a shadowclone.
Although he did fall for a Deidara clay clone (chapter 360, second half).
Which could imply that he cant see through shadow clones with 3 tomoe at least.

or her eyes just different from rinnegan

I think this one.

 

[sasukeultimateninja]

You really are underestimating the dimension travel power of the rinnengan. Sasuke can go far distance with it. For naruto even if he has a mark on sasuke, so far as sasuke is at a far distance it would be difficult for him to catch up to him.

 

[sasukeultimateninja]

Beside sasuke is not the type you can easily fool him with clones, especially if it is naruto because he knows very well that he uses clones for diversion in order attack.

 

[TrollKing]

Maybe the host of Indra, can differentiate between the real host of Asura and a shadow clone?
After all, both Hashirama and Naruto are hosts of Asura and almost nobody used shadowclones back than I think, seeing Tobirama is the inventor of that jutsu.

Maybe seeing through the real one and shadow clones it an EMS ability.

Maybe only hosts of Indra can do it.

Maybe its just unique to Madara.

I dont wanna scan through the whole manga to see Sasuke fall for a shadowclone.
Although he did fall for a Deidara clay clone (chapter 360, second half).
Which could imply that he cant see through shadow clones with 3 tomoe at least.
I think this one.

First three chapter, naruto fooled him with clone once

And yea also got fooled by clay clone once too

I see madara vs hashi has many parallel with naruto vs sasuke too. And that's part of where I draw the thesis of some of the more technical things since kishi loves to omit these parts

 

[Meowazziel]

I see madara vs hashi has many parallel with naruto vs sasuke too. And that's part of where I draw the thesis of some of the more technical things since kishi loves to omit these parts

Can you elaborate?
You mean to say that Indra's host can see through shadowclones through his dojutsu?
Or that he can see through shadow/wood clones of Asura's host through a dojutsu?
Something else?

 

[XxTayxX]

That was anime only. In other words, filler

Shadow clone isn't an ordinary jutsu. It's a forbidden technique which requires an extraordinary amount of chakra to spam the way Naruto does

thats filler, but everyone counts the last as canon? :|

 

[BSK]

Kakashi knew which was the real itachi when he went back to the village while kurenia did not.

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[TrollKing]

Can you elaborate?
You mean to say that Indra's host can see through shadowclones through his dojutsu?
Or that he can see through shadow/wood clones of Asura's host through a dojutsu?
Something else?

I do not see it as special transmigration power. The notion of transmigration was not introduced till the end of war arc after 600+ chapters.

However the parallels of naruto and sasuke was being set up enough in part 1. Vote 1 sasuke vs naruto was the parallel of hashi vs naruto. The parallel based on overall power level and tactics. Jutsu may not be paralleled though, but we see it is the case for sasuke ps and madara ps, so sasuke does inherit some of madara's power and so oro stated sasuke will surpass madara(but sasuke won't gain limbo especially oro may not have indicate rinnegan/limbo)

Madara had to be able to see through hashi clones with his eyes to be able to par with hashi. The same for sasuke, its impossible for sasuke to be par with naruto if he can't differentiate clones while naruto is expert at clone spamming.

Though I aware you said deidara clone fooled sasuke once, and maybe 1-3 more occasions at best, it could be due to some reasons as sasuke normally don't fall for it much like madara.

Also indra and ashura does parallel naruto and sasuke in many ways. And by examining naruto and sasuke or madara and hashi, we would also have a good idea of the most probable way of how indra and ashura fight and how they counter each other on what tactics while we don't have a definite idea of what jutsu they used.

In short, sasuke can't fight on par with naruto when naruto spam clones if he can't see them through

When sasuke fight naruto, he is much like madara fought with hashi

If madara can't tell hashi clones, madara gets negged. Same way for sasuke

 

[TrollingSage]

Kakashi knew which was the real itachi when he went back to the village while kurenia did not.

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Because he knew Itachi couldn't get behind him that fast. The only conclusion was that it was a clone.