Main Stream Rappers Can't Compete

[Lrrrrr]

Lol @ how do they compete

By actually making good music? You do realize it's music at the end of the day right? Just being able to spit means nothing in hip hop music if that's pretty much all you can do, everyone can rap these days. Not everyone has substance and not everyone can make quality music or master the artistry...

You're calling out people who mastered it and have a body of work that goes beyond just penning shit down to showout with. It would be different if actually making music wasn't involved but..yeah..this is kind of a primarily music based culture...in case you didn't notice.

And what do you consider "quality music"? Kanye and Jay Z mastering hip hop? Psh, yeah maybe before they became what they are now. And I'm confused as to what you mean by "actually making music". Is having good rhymes and good flow not music?

Op has clearly no idea on rap

The fact you mentioned kanye and jayz aswell

just no.

Lol you're free to express your reasons. Throughout the discussion on this post I've stated my reasoning, where's yours? I mention Kanye and Jay Z cause they're famous rappers who aren't nearly as good as they were before or close to many in the underground.

Meanwhile...there's dope rappers in the underground that actually have incredible music making skills that need more of a spotlight...

But everyone who's got next is just following the current formula...

You don't need a smash hit to be something in hip hop anymore anyways....the qualifications for "mainstream" have changed a lot since the internet became a medium for this shit.

You seem to have agreed to my point on main stream hip hop, so not sure if you're against or for it since you made two different posts talking about different ish things.

 

[slimshady18]

Very true. I just wanna know how Kanye or Jay Z fans would think their rappers even have a chance against this guy.

Jay z has reasonable doubt arguably the best album of all time blueprint and kanye has collage droput late registration and graduation they help make rap what it is today

 

[xxsasukex]

Drake Solos this thread, Drizzy is the man, Drizzy is a beast. Aubrey Graham Drake is a king Amongst boys. Deal with it

 

[SasukeTheEmo]

And what do you consider "quality music"? Kanye and Jay Z mastering hip hop? Psh, yeah maybe before they became what they are now. And I'm confused as to what you mean by "actually making music". Is having good rhymes and good flow not music?

When talking about "music" he's referring to the composition. You know... chords, time signatures and all that sorta stuff.
Rhymes/bars/lyrics all fall under the song-writing aspect.

 

[FemmeFatale]

Kanye and jay z are actually known though, no shade

 

[SonictheHedgehog]

And what do you consider "quality music"? Kanye and Jay Z mastering hip hop? Psh, yeah maybe before they became what they are now. And I'm confused as to what you mean by "actually making music". Is having good rhymes and good flow not music?

No...it takes WAY more than just having a good flow and rhyme patterns to make quality music. And it's because people think otherwise that so many underground artists fail to do it.

No matter what your opinion is on them now Hov and Ye have bodies of work and the accolades to back them up. You're letting your opinion cloud your judgement and disrespecting two of the people that became skilled in the artistry to the point that they have a collection of classics lmao.

You seem to have agreed to my point on main stream hip hop, so not sure if you're against or for it since you made two different posts talking about different ish things.

I'm pretty much impartial towards both sides of the schism in the hip hop community that seem to have been created (underground vs mainstream) until it comes to actual artists that I like or dislike and breaking down different shit that actually is more subjective.

I'm only speaking facts...that doesn't change my stance on your initial point. You have to understand the fact that it takes more than just a decent pengame. Otherwise there would be no substance...if you just want to listen to bars you could tune in to URL or something.

But even the rappers there have to make sure they have a certain level of substance if they want to prosper. Lol.

Delivery, beat selection, subject matter, organization, sonic quality

Imagine some of the most prominent classics without these :lol

 

[SasukeTheEmo]

disrespecting two of the people that became skilled in the artistry to the point that they have a collection of classics lmao.

What classics?
Reasonable Doubt is average at best. Same with College Dropout.

 

[SonictheHedgehog]

What classics?
Reasonable Doubt is average at best. Same with College Dropout.

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Oh is that so?

Go ahead and dethrone all of these highly acclaimed classics and tell us how overrated they are.

You must be registered for see images

 

[SasukeTheEmo]

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Oh is that so?

Go ahead and dethrone all of these highly acclaimed classics and tell us how overrated they are.

You must be registered for see images

Highly acclaimed by who?
Oh, mainstream media...

 

[Kaneki Kun]

Kanye and jay z are actually known though, no shade

You can't use that as an argument.

Highly acclaimed by who?
Oh, mainstream media...

By the people and reviewers, whether you like it or not there are reviewers who's opinions are valued higher than yours and are respected, I'm talking about any generic person that says how dope young thug is. I'm talking about critics that know the music scene.

Not to mention fans of the artist, fans of the album itself, fans of Rap/Hip-Hop, from people in general.
You can't use mainstream media as an argument because you yourself contribute to the mainstream media scene.

Don't forget these highly acclaimed albums are also praised by rappers themselves and in the underground scene as well, they are an inspiration to them.

 

[SasukeTheEmo]

You can't use that as an argument.

By the people and reviewers, whether you like it or not there are reviewers who's opinions are valued higher than yours and are respected, I'm talking about any generic person that says how dope young thug is. I'm talking about critics that know the music scene.

Not to mention fans of the artist, fans of the album itself, fans of Rap/Hip-Hop, from people in general.
You can't use mainstream media as an argument because you yourself contribute to the mainstream media scene.

Don't forget these highly acclaimed albums are also praised by rappers themselves and in the underground scene as well, they are an inspiration to them.

Ah the appeal to authority fallacy.
Well done.

 

[Lariatoo]

Meh. The guys form Epic Rap Battles of History are waaay above any mainstream rapper that I can think.

 

[SonictheHedgehog]

Highly acclaimed by who?
Oh, mainstream media...

A plethora of artists, obscure or not, grew looking up to them :lol What are you talking about?

Whether you accept it or not, this is music at the end of the day. The ability to make music is needed.

Hov and Ye have that. If you think otherwise I can't expect a serious discussion with you, even though I'm aware of the fact that you're an elitist type troll. Lol.

Meh. The guys form Epic Rap Battles of History are waaay above any mainstream rapper that I can think.

You must be registered for see images

 

[Lrrrrr]

Jay z has reasonable doubt arguably the best album of all time blueprint and kanye has collage droput late registration and graduation they help make rap what it is today

All subjective of course. But they made what rap is today? So 2Chainz, Bobby Shmurda, those guys were the outcome of those albums? Nah man, they may have been good but not to the point where they've made it what it is today, since so much is crap.

Drake Solos this thread, Drizzy is the man, Drizzy is a beast. Aubrey Graham Drake is a king Amongst boys. Deal with it

Mm idk about that lol.

When talking about "music" he's referring to the composition. You know... chords, time signatures and all that sorta stuff.
Rhymes/bars/lyrics all fall under the song-writing aspect.

Well sure, but that could be just as opinionated as anything else. Ones definition of music is ear shattering dubstep, while another's are those like George Michael, etc.

Kanye and jay z are actually known though, no shade

Well yeah, so is the Kardashian family lol. But who really knows what they even do?

No...it takes WAY more than just having a good flow and rhyme patterns to make quality music. And it's because people think otherwise that so many underground artists fail to do it.

No matter what your opinion is on them now Hov and Ye have bodies of work and the accolades to back them up. You're letting your opinion cloud your judgement and disrespecting two of the people that became skilled in the artistry to the point that they have a collection of classics lmao.



I'm pretty much impartial towards both sides of the schism in the hip hop community that seem to have been created (underground vs mainstream) until it comes to actual artists that I like or dislike and breaking down different shit that actually is more subjective.

I'm only speaking facts...that doesn't change my stance on your initial point. You have to understand the fact that it takes more than just a decent pengame. Otherwise there would be no substance...if you just want to listen to bars you could tune in to URL or something.

But even the rappers there have to make sure they have a certain level of substance if they want to prosper. Lol.

Delivery, beat selection, subject matter, organization, sonic quality

Imagine some of the most prominent classics without these :lol

Okay so the bottom parts are what you define as quality music I'll take it? Delivery - that's subjective to a point. One says Lil Wayne has good delivery, but realistically he essentially just talks throughout with barely any flow. Beat selection - This goes hand in hand with subject matter. If your using Solitary Confinement's lyrics and flow, you're not going to add the beat of Rapper's Delight. The beat's in underground rap (from ones I've heard) match the tone of the lyrics themselves. In Jay z and Kanye's case, where they have many songs pertaining to themselves and their success, they can have catchier beats that people might enjoy more. And if you're unable to really listen to underground music because of the sound quality, be real lol. Yeah it may not be the best as the millionaire main stream rappers of today, but it's still good. Organization - This song in particular that I posted has great organization, if you're talking about organization of the lyrics themselves. Many underground rappers tell stories more so than songs that have different topics throughout it. My judgment isn't clouded at all, in fact I've said many times over within my posts that both Jay Z and Kanye have good music from before, but comparing their music now to before you can tell the difference in quality - or at least I can.

 

[SonictheHedgehog]

Okay so the bottom parts are what you define as quality music I'll take it?

You taking that assumption and rolling with it for a whole paragraph..I can't understand why you'd do that. I was just listing things for an example.

Delivery - that's subjective to a point. One says Lil Wayne has good delivery, but realistically he essentially just talks throughout with barely any flow.

Can't take your arguments seriously after that comment, but you can distinguish an obviously flawed delivery from a great delivery.

Beat selection - This goes hand in hand with subject matter. If your using Solitary Confinement's lyrics and flow, you're not going to add the beat of Rapper's Delight. The beat's in underground rap (from ones I've heard) match the tone of the lyrics themselves. In Jay z and Kanye's case, where they have many songs pertaining to themselves and their success, they can have catchier beats that people might enjoy more.

What did you accomplish by trying to break down beat selection like I don't know what it is? On a grander scale, when you're making an album your beat selection is important. That was what I was referring to...which is why I mentioned ALBUMS and not tracks..

And if you're unable to really listen to underground music because of the sound quality, be real lol.
Yeah it may not be the best as the millionaire main stream rappers of today, but it's still good.

I don't think you completely understood what I meant by sonic quality.... you also seem to be under the impression that I'm dissing all underground artists.

Organization - This song in particular that I posted has great organization, if you're talking about organization of the lyrics themselves. Many underground rappers tell stories more so than songs that have different topics throughout it.

I'm referring to project based organization...

My judgment isn't clouded at all, in fact I've said many times over within my posts that both Jay Z and Kanye have good music from before, but comparing their music now to before you can tell the difference in quality - or at least I can.

That doesn't matter. They have a highly acclaimed body of work that speaks for itself no matter what you think of their current shit.

Even with their newest shit you can at least acknowledge the fact that they have experience with the artistry. Some underground artists can't even rhyme on beat or properly master their sounds or voice projection.

I've seen many people jump on a beat and have their voice sounding 2x louder than the instrumental.

 

[Kaneki Kun]

Ah the appeal to authority fallacy.
Well done.

Ignorance is bliss.

 

[Multiply]

No one cares about lyrical miracle raps.



[video=youtube;YYYneHJ3M7k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYYneHJ3M7k[/video]
Straight up, this is better than what you posted in the OP. He didn't say SHIT in this song either :lol.

 

[Chakra Wizard]

Kinda picked a bad example to compare them to (decent storytelling, but that's all I saw), but even then, mainstream and the underground are part of the same musical genre, so there are good and bad rappers in both. A bad rapper is a bad rapper, whether he's well-known or not, but the really good ones who happen to be mainstream are by no means less brilliant than those who keep to the underground scene (whether they like the competitive environment or just can't find a label).

Em and Nas are considered lyrical geniuses because they are, even today (I don't feel Jay or Kanye as much), and just cause guys like Tech or Earl CAN compete doesn't mean they're better, because on many levels, they're still not. Em's been killing Tech lyrically in recent years and as far as storytelling goes, no rapper mainstream or underground has much chance of competing with Nas (except maybe Kendrick).

 

[Professor Finesser]

Very true. I just wanna know how Kanye or Jay Z fans would think their rappers even have a chance against this guy.

A difference in opinion maybe? Lmao College Dropout and Graduation are some of the greatest albums of all time.

And Jay Z is one of the greats.

 

[Lrrrrr]

You taking that assumption and rolling with it for a whole paragraph..I can't understand why you'd do that. I was just listing things for an example.



Can't take your arguments seriously after that comment, but you can distinguish an obviously flawed delivery from a great delivery.



What did you accomplish by trying to break down beat selection like I don't know what it is? On a grander scale, when you're making an album your beat selection is important. That was what I was referring to...which is why I mentioned ALBUMS and not tracks..




I don't think you completely understood what I meant by sonic quality.... you also seem to be under the impression that I'm dissing all underground artists.



I'm referring to project based organization...



That doesn't matter. They have a highly acclaimed body of work that speaks for itself no matter what you think of their current shit.

Even with their newest shit you can at least acknowledge the fact that they have experience with the artistry. Some underground artists can't even rhyme on beat or properly master their sounds or voice projection.

I've seen many people jump on a beat and have their voice sounding 2x louder than the instrumental.

You said what would those albums be without those things you listed, so it's safe to assume that all of that is taken into account when making quality music. And well if you don't want to take it seriously than you don't have to, but I've heard enough songs to know Lil Wayne has one of crappiest deliveries in rap. I broke it down not because I didn't think you wouldn't get it, but because I wanted to give my side of what I think it takes to make good music. I don't know any other definition of sonic quality, you're free to tell me. And I don't assume you hate all underground rap, but like many people, they give me lyrics, beats, flow and delivery and it's not even that great - yet they use it to tell me how much better that artist is than the one I posted. And of course they do, they wouldn't be as popular as they are if they didn't, but if I was counting ALL mainstream (which I wasn't, only modern day) I would have to include Biggie, Tupac, Easy E, etc. I wouldn't say these lyrics are better than the ones they had, but my point was during the present main stream honestly has gone down hill. And yeah I've heard crappy underground rappers. You assumed I was talking about the entire underground vs mainstream, when I wasn't.

No one cares about lyrical miracle raps.



[video=youtube;YYYneHJ3M7k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYYneHJ3M7k[/video]
Straight up, this is better than what you posted in the OP. He didn't say SHIT in this song either :lol.

No one cares for lyrics? I think you'll be quite alone in this one, but if that's what you like than go right ahead lol. There's room for all types of music.

Kinda picked a bad example to compare them to (decent storytelling, but that's all I saw), but even then, mainstream and the underground are part of the same musical genre, so there are good and bad rappers in both. A bad rapper is a bad rapper, whether he's well-known or not, but the really good ones who happen to be mainstream are by no means less brilliant than those who keep to the underground scene (whether they like the competitive environment or just can't find a label).

Em and Nas are considered lyrical geniuses because they are, even today (I don't feel Jay or Kanye as much), and just cause guys like Tech or Earl CAN compete doesn't mean they're better, because on many levels, they're still not. Em's been killing Tech lyrically in recent years and as far as storytelling goes, no rapper mainstream or underground has much chance of competing with Nas (except maybe Kendrick).

I wasn't comparing the entire underground vs entire mainstream. I was comparing one artist who made a good song to the mainstream now-a-days. If you don't think there was any flow or semi-sophisticated lyrics, than I guess I can't really say anything that'll change your mind lol. And yeah I might have to disagree with you there. Eminem is good, but I would rank IT over him lyrically, but delivery wise or flow Eminem has it. And as far as story telling goes, IT is better than Kendrick, and maybe on par with Nas.

A difference in opinion maybe? Lmao College Dropout and Graduation are some of the greatest albums of all time.

And Jay Z is one of the greats.

Well yeah of course lol, that's a simple answer. But comparing lyrics and all (realistically) there could be some discussion. And I don't consider Jay Z one of the greats personally.