Gold and Silver vs Kakuzu and Hidan 2.0

[Zexion~]

The blast can't look weaker. Fact is, the epicentre/area of detonation is the strongest and has the highest energy concentration whereas the energy reduces the further you get away from the centre. That's how explosions work in the first place.

Yes.....and Deva changed the TBB so that he was on the outskirts with the massive piece of ground.

 

[Apêx1]

Yes.....and Deva changed the TBB so that he was on the outskirts with the massive piece of ground.

Again, you are wrong. Completely.

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What? That area is completely concentrated and is vaporising rocks at the edge of it.

Spoiler

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So.. The massive level of energy in a TBB allows it to be powerful in its centre and close to the outskirts of the explosion.

 

[KidGamer65]

Deva Path was in this part of the explosion

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and was against the wall here

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Absolutely no reason whatsoever to suggest Deva had moved locations from where he was given his back was pinned to the wall. He could move towards Naruto and he'd go into the epicentre of the explosion. But he was still at pretty much one of the highest areas of energy concentration in the explosion. Until you can prove to me how he would've escaped faster than a high-energy explosion can detonate, you have no point here. Rasengan beating him or not, it wouldn't matter anyways because Rasengan wouldn't have the energy to vaporise rock at any part of its explosion, whereas TBB was vaporising rock at its weakest point. Being closer to the middle or near the end wouldn't change anything hence it doesn't add to your argument.
.

The striked out part is irrelevant since it's countering a claim I never made. A claim I wouldn't have to make anyway.

If Deva is up against a wall, then he'd be right around this area, which is nowhere near the center. That's right at the edge of the explosion. So no, he was not near the center or any of the areas where the energy concentration would be the highest.

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Don't say he was in the center because there is no wall for him to be against in the center. Just open space.

Deva taking the blast at it's weakest point means that you can't say or imply that Kakuzu or Hidan would tank it when they would be right in the middle. Which is the main point I'm trying to make.

@Bold lets not be argumentative. The attack power can annihilate anyone who doesn't have super armor. Lets argue with good reasoning. A knife and wind sabre isnt more significant then Kakuzu's Futon nor will I assume Shiruken and Raiton spear is as significant a TBB, since Bee's weakest part of the body can withstand it, while it can't for Shiruken and Raiton.

When you can actually prove that, get back to me. If Fuuton was enough to wipe out Hidan's body, then his body would've been wiped out. Fuuton is no where near Bijuu Dama in power so please don't even mention it again as you have nothing but a weak argument here. If Bijuu Dama hits Hidan and Kakuzu, and they die a terrible, terrible death.

Bold is irrelevant. In fact, this whole part of your post is irrelevant since you tried to tell me Hidan has taken explosive damage, but Fuuton Atsugai is not explosive damage. He's never taken any attack with explosive damage, ever. Not to mention the sheer fact that KN6 BD is tiers above any attack Hidan has ever encountered ends this part of the discussion.

Being able to challenge Kakashi in CQC is a good feat, considering Kakashi can handle multiple V2 heads that puts up a challenge = to a single Kurama V2 CQC. The conditions clearly shows blocking Hidan's attack is not an option. Physical contact to his weapons and Kunai's means cursed.

It's irrelevant if he gets cursed in CQC since Hidan can't perform his ritual while he's fighting one of them in CQC. Kakashi never "handled" the Jins in CQC. He used Chidori, it got tanked, the other one dodged it, and then he got pushed back. Not to mention KN6>Any of the V2 Jins.

The attack is pressure... It does both "crush" and blow as we seen in the manga, and explanation of the jutsu via DB...

No, it doesn't. The Manga never showed it blowing anything, nor did it even blow it's target, Hidan. He'd just get hit. Plain and simple.

My premise is if they were to most likely dodge the element blast, Kakauzu Katon is perfect for them to do that, since it covers the whole floor (not literally) then springs up. The way everyone dodge it in canon is most likely going to happen here.

They have V2 Naruto speed, and as you said, it doesn't cover the whole floor. Jumping from side to side or jumping back makes more sense than jumping in the air.

Not a terrible idea. Gin or Kin are able to parry Hidan's weapon, the element pushing Hidan gives more force for his strike intention, and over power the parry of the brothers, thus gets tagged.

Kakuzu can neglect or over power Bashosen since Bashosen can only use a single elements at a time, while Kakuzu can combine his for multiple. Plus the fact that Kakuzu can fight too, just like he did to Kakashi. So its a "3" (more then 3) v 1 scenario. So no there is no soloing here.

Whether or not he can overpower Bashosen doesn't matter. Even if he does, whatever gets past is shrugged off by his cloak. Kakuzu wouldn't even be able to get past the cloak with a head on attack. It being a 3 v 1 doesn't change the facts.

-They can't hurt him without Hidan's curse.
-Hidan is never going to get the opportunity to curse him. If he comes close, he gets split in half just like Orochimaru did. Whether or not he tags him in CQC is irrelevant since he needs to retreat to use the curse.
-Once Bijuu Dama is used, it's good game and there is literally no argument you can conjure up that'd change that.

 

[Apêx1]

The striked out part is irrelevant since it's countering a claim I never made. A claim I wouldn't have to make anyway.

If Deva is up against a wall, then he'd be right around this area, which is nowhere near the center. That's right at the edge of the explosion. So no, he was not near the center or any of the areas where the energy concentration would be the highest.

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Don't say he was in the center because there is no wall for him to be against in the center. Just open space.

Deva taking the blast at it's weakest point means that you can't say or imply that Kakuzu or Hidan would tank it when they would be right in the middle. Which is the main point I'm trying to make.

Ok.

Then my bad, I mistook the stones behind him.

In the scan I posted Deva was 1 meter away from KN4 Naruto whose TBB was on the verge of detonation. So again, unless you believe Deva can outrun the speed of a blast that extends this large [

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] then I don't see how far he could've possibly gone from the 1 meter distance between him and Naruto. Gamakichi is completely dwarfed, and that's after you take into the account how far the explosion is from him (as in Gamakichi looks bigger since he's closer). I personally don't see how you can possibly argue that he could be a quarter of the speed of that explosion, and the only thing you can possibly argue is the time it took after Deva used BT for the TBB to detonate. But clearly not much since it was already unstable while he was 1 meter from Naruto, given the altered shape of the TBB.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

When you can actually prove that, get back to me. If Fuuton was enough to wipe out Hidan's body, then his body would've been wiped out. Fuuton is no where near Bijuu Dama in power so please don't even mention it again as you have nothing but a weak argument here. If Bijuu Dama hits Hidan and Kakuzu, and they die a terrible, terrible death.

Prove what? Why are you asking me to prove something just for the sake of you dropping rationality?

- Kakashi needed to dodged it.
- The outskirts, to where he escape, caught his clothing/armor and destroyed it
- Conclusion: Kakashi taking the full effect would do much worst.

Seriously what happens when you get hit by high velocity of wind?

Never claimed its near BD, what I am claiming is ABC logic dont work against Hidan's body.

Bold is irrelevant. In fact, this whole part of your post is irrelevant since you tried to tell me Hidan has taken explosive damage, but Fuuton Atsugai is not explosive damage. He's never taken any attack with explosive damage, ever. Not to mention the sheer fact that KN6 BD is tiers above any attack Hidan has ever encountered ends this part of the discussion.

Dude are being serious? Atsugai is pressure damage. what happens when that energy is release? Lmao its no different then Zaku's ability, but at a much much higher strength and scale.

Now you want me to read manga to you:

Hidan has encounter Asuma's fire style, that explodes
Hidan has encounter Shikumaru's Kunai attached with an explosive tag

Tiers is irrelevant to my argument. My claim is his immortality enables him to take and withstand attacks that can kill a ninja, but is vulnerable to anything that can cut him, even if the cutting power is inferior to what he is capable of tanking. Therefore ABC logic of the attack does not work.

It's irrelevant if he gets cursed in CQC since Hidan can't perform his ritual while he's fighting one of them in CQC. Kakashi never "handled" the Jins in CQC. He used Chidori, it got tanked, the other one dodged it, and then he got pushed back. Not to mention KN6>Any of the V2 Jins.

Hidan has never ever ever had trouble retreating back to the ritual. Not when he has his cable wire to tag both close and mid range, 5 Ghost and Kakuzu keep them at bay, and his Kunai's the can be planted in multiple places as much as FTG. Lol So that still means handling and even then you only sharing the first half of the fight. Plus the fact that they had Sharingan and Rinne vision.

No, it doesn't. The Manga never showed it blowing anything, nor did it even blow it's target, Hidan. He'd just get hit. Plain and simple.

Gonna start ignoring manga now? Lets just ignore the line marks in the background of Choji and Shiki[

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] indicating the action motion, gust from the attack. Lets ignore the fact that they begin sliding back[

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]

Lets just ignore that Hidan and Kakashi were absent, until Kakashi came to intercept Gian and Hidan seen returning after.

They have V2 Naruto speed, and as you said, it doesn't cover the whole floor. Jumping from side to side or jumping back makes more sense than jumping in the air.

I wasnt arguing V2 is being used, during this happening.

Whether or not he can overpower Bashosen doesn't matter. Even if he does, whatever gets past is shrugged off by his cloak. Kakuzu wouldn't even be able to get past the cloak with a head on attack. It being a 3 v 1 doesn't change the facts.

-They can't hurt him without Hidan's curse.
-Hidan is never going to get the opportunity to curse him. If he comes close, he gets split in half just like Orochimaru did. Whether or not he tags him in CQC is irrelevant since he needs to retreat to use the curse.
-Once Bijuu Dama is used, it's good game and there is literally no argument you can conjure up that'd change that.

It changes everything. He gets bodied around (regardless if it hurts him or not) and gets a free tag from Hidan, or Kakuzu holding one of his weapons.

Addressed CQC. Even then, Bloodlust strikes first, and gets tagged over it[

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[KidGamer65]

Prove what? Why are you asking me to prove something just for the sake of you dropping rationality?

- Kakashi needed to dodged it.
- The outskirts, to where he escape, caught his clothing/armor and destroyed it
- Conclusion: Kakashi taking the full effect would do much worst.

Seriously what happens when you get hit by high velocity of wind?

Never claimed its near BD, what I am claiming is ABC logic dont work against Hidan's body.

Which you literally have zero proof for. Now please stop wasting my time with this nonsense. You make, no, sense. If Atsugai was strong enough to wreck HIDAN (Don't give a shit about Kakashi) then he would be wrecked. Hidan being able to tank whatever attack no matter the strength is probably the stupidest thing I've heard all week, and I've heard a low of stupid things this week.

Hidan taking Atsugai and not being damaged means that Hidan can take Atsugai. If I used this terrible logic, I'd be running around saying that he tanks Kurama's Bijuu Dama because "He can't be vaporized by an attack of that magnitude based on the fact that he tanked Kakuzu's fodder Fuuton".

Lmao.

Dude are being serious? Atsugai is pressure damage. what happens when that energy is release? Lmao its no different then Zaku's ability, but at a much much higher strength and scale.

That's not the same as an explosion in the sense of Bijuu Dama. I should asking you if you are being serious. That is blunt force damage. Not explosive damage.

Now you want me to read manga to you:

Hidan has encounter Asuma's fire style, that explodes
Hidan has encounter Shikumaru's Kunai attached with an explosive tag

Now let me read the Manga to you, because you apparently don't know what the words "tank" and "explosive" mean.

Hidan was ripped apart by the Wire and Explosive Tag combo. That's not tanking. KATON BURNS. FIRE BURNS. It does not explode like Bijuu Dama does, so once again. Your point sounds foolish. Please drop it.

Tiers is irrelevant to my argument. My claim is his immortality enables him to take and withstand attacks that can kill a ninja, but is vulnerable to anything that can cut him, even if the cutting power is inferior to what he is capable of tanking. Therefore ABC logic of the attack does not work.

Your argument is piss poor and has no basis behind it. It's just you taking one instance where he survived Atsugai and using that to say he can tank much stronger things because he's immortal.

Hidan has never ever ever had trouble retreating back to the ritual. Not when he has his cable wire to tag both close and mid range, 5 Ghost and Kakuzu keep them at bay, and his Kunai's the can be planted in multiple places as much as FTG. Lol So that still means handling and even then you only sharing the first half of the fight. Plus the fact that they had Sharingan and Rinne vision.

Who cares what trouble Hidan has never had in the Manga when he's never fought a CQC combatant as fast and powerful as KN6 before? Lmao. What in the hell are you talking about with the bold? His cable wire isn't going to help him retreat, fighting at mid range isn't going to stop him from getting punked considering

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can do this, while

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can do this, let alone KN6.

If Kakuzu needs to back him up with elemental jutsu, then you are only proving the point I'm trying to make, that Hidan can't fight them in CQC.

Gonna start ignoring manga now? Lets just ignore the line marks in the background of Choji and Shiki[

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] indicating the action motion, gust from the attack. Lets ignore the fact that they begin sliding back[

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]

Lmao, are you daft? They were on the outskirts of that blast and they didn't even slide back a full meter. If that had hit them, they wouldn't be getting blown backwards. Hirudora's shockwaves were strong enough to blow back the people on Turtle Island, but anyone with common sense knows that if Hirudora hits you, you won't be blown away by the wind. You'll be crushed by the wind.

Lets just ignore that Hidan and Kakashi were absent, until Kakashi came to intercept Gian and Hidan seen returning after.

Let's also ignore the fact that they were on the other side of the battlefield, which is why they were absent.

I wasnt arguing V2 is being used, during this happening.

Irrelevant since the fight will eventually lead to V2.

It changes everything. He gets bodied around (regardless if it hurts him or not) and gets a free tag from Hidan, or Kakuzu holding one of his weapons.

The only attacks that would move him is Atsugai and Suiton, which can be easily dodged. So no, he doesn't get bodied around by anything nor does Hidan tagging him matter when he'd be clobbered in CQC before he ever retreated.

Addressed CQC. Even then, Bloodlust strikes first, and gets tagged over it[

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]

Not even sure what you are trying to say here.

Ok.

Then my bad, I mistook the stones behind him.

In the scan I posted Deva was 1 meter away from KN4 Naruto whose TBB was on the verge of detonation. So again, unless you believe Deva can outrun the speed of a blast that extends this large [

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] then I don't see how far he could've possibly gone from the 1 meter distance between him and Naruto. Gamakichi is completely dwarfed, and that's after you take into the account how far the explosion is from him (as in Gamakichi looks bigger since he's closer). I personally don't see how you can possibly argue that he could be a quarter of the speed of that explosion, and the only thing you can possibly argue is the time it took after Deva used BT for the TBB to detonate. But clearly not much since it was already unstable while he was 1 meter from Naruto, given the altered shape of the TBB.

Once again, I don't need to prove any of that.

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There are only two walls that they could be up against, and they are both on the outskirts of the explosion. That BT+rock combo is most likely the reason why the explosion barely caught them. There's no way he was in the center as there is no wall there. He couldn't have been farther back because that is closer to where Gamakichi was, and they couldn't even see KN6 from where they were.

 

[Strict]

Even Orochimaru said that a Bijuudama from V4 Naruto would have killed him and Orochimaru is tough to kill. So a direct hit from a Bijuudama would turn Hidan to dust. Neither Hidan nor Kakuzu can put a scratch on the brothers when they're in their Jinchuriki form.

 

[Apêx1]

Once again, I don't need to prove any of that.

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There are only two walls that they could be up against, and they are both on the outskirts of the explosion. That BT+rock combo is most likely the reason why the explosion barely caught them. There's no way he was in the center as there is no wall there. He couldn't have been farther back because that is closer to where Gamakichi was, and they couldn't even see KN6 from where they were.

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You can see the two red circles I have drawn, both of which are the detonation points of the explosion. The BT pushes Naruto closer to Deva and it explodes at that point in the ground. So there's no wall behind Deva, those are just broken rocks next to his feet (doesn't change much). You can see how the green lines represent equal dispersion of the energy from the point of detonation, which happened right next to Deva. Unless Deva can outrun explosions as massive as that one, (would put him on a completely different level then other Naruto characters) then there's no chance he moved much from that point I already showed you as the point of detonation. Energy spreads out equally, it wouldn't stop at the wall and for no reason continue to the bottom-left, similarly to how the point of detonation couldn't have possibly been in the middle of the area if there was actually a wall behind them (hence there isn't).

 

[KidGamer65]

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You can see the two red circles I have drawn, both of which are the detonation points of the explosion. The BT pushes Naruto closer to Deva and it explodes at that point in the ground. So there's no wall behind Deva, those are just broken rocks next to his feet (doesn't change much). You can see how the green lines represent equal dispersion of the energy from the point of detonation, which happened right next to Deva. Unless Deva can outrun explosions as massive as that one, (would put him on a completely different level then other Naruto characters) then there's no chance he moved much from that point I already showed you as the point of detonation. Energy spreads out equally, it wouldn't stop at the wall and for no reason continue to the bottom-left, similarly to how the point of detonation couldn't have possibly been in the middle of the area if there was actually a wall behind them (hence there isn't).

Wrong.

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That pretty much proves my point. There is no wall in the middle. That means that the Bijuu Dama didn't explode when and where you assume it exploded. KN6 tried to fire, the rock hit his face and caused him to misfire, thus they were caught on the outskirts or the edge of the explosion. Makes more sense than implying he tanked a KN6 Bijuu Dama point blank.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Which you literally have zero proof for. Now please stop wasting my time with this nonsense. You make, no, sense. If Atsugai was strong enough to wreck HIDAN (Don't give a shit about Kakashi) then he would be wrecked. Hidan being able to tank whatever attack no matter the strength is probably the stupidest thing I've heard all week, and I've heard a low of stupid things this week.

Hidan taking Atsugai and not being damaged means that Hidan can take Atsugai. If I used this terrible logic, I'd be running around saying that he tanks Kurama's Bijuu Dama because "He can't be vaporized by an attack of that magnitude based on the fact that he tanked Kakuzu's fodder Fuuton".

Lmao.

Your asking me to prove a negative. "Proof that Hidan would survive the attack if he wasnt immortal". And my premise puts Hidan's durability in comparison to Gyuki's tail, not that he can take whatever attack he wants.

That's not the same as an explosion in the sense of Bijuu Dama. I should asking you if you are being serious. That is blunt force damage. Not explosive damage.

Both force applies combustive

Now let me read the Manga to you, because you apparently don't know what the words "tank" and "explosive" mean.

Hidan was ripped apart by the Wire and Explosive Tag combo. That's not tanking. KATON BURNS. FIRE BURNS. It does not explode like Bijuu Dama does, so once again. Your point sounds foolish. Please drop it.

Ok, a direct hit would mean the end of Hidan.

Your argument is piss poor and has no basis behind it. It's just you taking one instance where he survived Atsugai and using that to say he can tank much stronger things because he's immortal.

What you just explain is called a basis.

Who cares what trouble Hidan has never had in the Manga when he's never fought a CQC combatant as fast and powerful as KN6 before? Lmao. What in the hell are you talking about with the bold? His cable wire isn't going to help him retreat, fighting at mid range isn't going to stop him from getting punked considering

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can do this, while

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can do this, let alone KN6.

What speed feats does it have that would give Hidan trouble in the first place?

Im talking about @bold conditions Hidan is capable of for 2.0:

-Planting tools (weapons) on surfaces are capable of creating the ritual seal.

Shockwaves arent taking out Hidan. In fact it will help him retreat, being blown back, all while already touching his chakra.

If Kakuzu needs to back him up with elemental jutsu, then you are only proving the point I'm trying to make, that Hidan can't fight them in CQC.

What point? Did i ever say Hidan can take both of them in CQC? My whole argument is base on team work.

Lmao, are you daft? They were on the outskirts of that blast and they didn't even slide back a full meter. If that had hit them, they wouldn't be getting blown backwards. Hirudora's shockwaves were strong enough to blow back the people on Turtle Island, but anyone with common sense knows that if Hirudora hits you, you won't be blown away by the wind. You'll be crushed by the wind.

Irrelevant to how far they slide, you try to make a claim that the Futon never blown anything, which is debunked. And Hirudora =/= Kakuzu's since Kakuzu's blast isn't focused on a single point like Hirudora (As it can drag you in the position of the casters command). Anyone with common sense would know getting hit by this wind would get dragged the same direction its pushing.

Let's also ignore the fact that they were on the other side of the battlefield, which is why they were absent.

The hell you talking about here?

Irrelevant since the fight will eventually lead to V2.

??????? How does that change my intentional claim to which I was arguing for?

The only attacks that would move him is Atsugai and Suiton, which can be easily dodged. So no, he doesn't get bodied around by anything nor does Hidan tagging him matter when he'd be clobbered in CQC before he ever retreated.

Nope no evidence they can easily dodge it or even anticipate it happening. And how are they clobbering Hidan and simultaneously dodging Kakuzu's attack?

Not even sure what you are trying to say here.

in Manga, bloodlust Kinkaku rampage and attack first. If this happens here, he will end up physically touching Hidan's weapons. Or Hidan acrobat out and throws his weapons or Kunai to tag whatever he uses to attack.