Nine fatally shot in Charleston Church

Aim64C

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In theory - that link should be a page that is routinely updated with the latest.

"3 a.m. (EDT)

A South Carolina legislative leader says the church's pastor, state Sen. Clementa Pinckney, is among those killed in a shooting at a historic black church in downtown Charleston that authorities are calling a hate crime.

House Minority Leader Todd Rutherford says Pinckney was killed along with eight others in the Wednesday night shooting at Emanuel AME Church.

Authorities are still searching for the shooter, who's described as a white male in his early 20s."


Some of the other reports I'm seeing place the primary suspect as being an employee of the church.

Al Sharpton is also inbound, so further destruction and calamity to follow.
 

Bronze

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Suspect can't be a white man. It can only be a Muslim, right, Aim64C? :lol

Joke aside; Obama needs to sort out gun control laws because his African-American people are being targeted out of racial hate, while he's still in office.
 

Crusch

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Suspect can't be a white man. It can only be a Muslim, right, Aim64C? :lol

Joke aside; Obama needs to sort out gun control laws because his African-American people are being targeted out of racial hate, while he's still in office.
Chicago has strict gun control laws, how is that working out?
This is sad. Hope the suspect gets caught before hurting more people.
 

Aim64C

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Suspect can't be a white man. It can only be a Muslim, right, Aim64C? :lol
He's actually a socialist.

Which, if you check my posting record, it isn't 'right wing' people who execute random shootings. It's a pretty safe bet that if it is a mass shooting involving a racial majority - it is a socialist, often of the revolutionary progressive variety.

Although what you cited was a religion, which can be held regardless of ethnicity. Though muslims have, historically, structured social castes (races) around ethnic origins. Which is one of the challenges ISIS faces as they grow larger. There is the belief in Islam that Arabs are superior to non-Arabs (which makes sense, seeing as it is Arabic that is the 'true' form of the revealed wisdom of the creating deity).

But I digress.

Joke aside; Obama needs to sort out gun control laws because his African-American people are being targeted out of racial hate, while he's still in office.
Spare the rhetoric.

This was a revolutionary progressive who believes he will be able to trigger a civil war.

Whether or not he succeeds is irrelevant to the inevitability of that civil war. It will happen and contingencies are being made for it by the various concerned parties for when it does.

He committed his act in a gun-free zone. Firearms are not allowed in churches.

His father is the one who gifted him the handgun on his 21st birthday.

That said, this is a light casualty weekend for Chicago. Black gangs shoot and kill each other all the time in an area with the strictest gun control laws in America.

Frankly, I don't trust you with my security, so I'll be keeping my means of defense, thankyou.
 

Babadook

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There is the belief in Islam that Arabs are superior to non-Arabs (which makes sense, seeing as it is Arabic that is the 'true' form of the revealed wisdom of the creating deity).
Sometimes I wonder where you get your ideas from...

"All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety (taqwa) and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. " <<< Quote from the last speech of the Prophet pbuh.







If you mean that some Arabs today are arrogant and boastful about being Arabs- well, it has no basis in islam. It's another question what the language of the revelation is. As language has not much to do with race. There are people with Arab parents born in non-Arab countries, never learning Arabic. There are non-Arabs mastering the Arabic language. Etc.
 

Aim64C

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Sometimes I wonder where you get your ideas from...
Reality.

"All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety (taqwa) and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. " <<< Quote from the last speech of the Prophet pbuh.
The last speech? Really? According to whom?

The Hadith give no such account. You should know me better, by now. There's a reason I demand Muslims cite a reference in the Qu'ran or Hadith when none is given for a claim.

That "last speech" actually comes from Syed F. H. Faizi, who pulled that sermon from various derived books that were not accepted by the ulema. He didn't know the source, and therefor couldn't cite one.

No such sermon exists in authenticated Hadith.

Compare to a passage from the Bible:

“There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.” (Galatians 3:28)

This particular section of the sermon is borrowed and the various translations building the narrative can be traced back to early converts from Christianity in islam-occupied regions.

If you mean that some Arabs today are arrogant and boastful about being Arabs- well, it has no basis in islam. It's another question what the language of the revelation is. As language has not much to do with race. There are people with Arab parents born in non-Arab countries, never learning Arabic. There are non-Arabs mastering the Arabic language. Etc.


"If the person who wishes to seek Islamic knowledge is not a native speaker of Arabic, he needs to learn the language and acquire a solid understanding of it. This will enable him to understand the meanings being indicated by the Qur’ân and Sunnah with respect to Islamic Law. Once he is equipped with this ability, he will be able to carry out what the Qur’ân and Sunnah command of him and shun what these two sources prohibit him. "

While appropriations are made to make it sound like it's "okay" to 'not be Arab' - the reality of this is that if I were to go before an Islamic trial, my testimony is inferior to a native arab speaker, particularly where nuances of law are concerned. Or, similarly, if I were to bring charges against a native arab speaker, my understanding of the law is brought into question.

This can be seen time and time again in any debate including a muslim. There is always some magical context that us non-arab speakers don't understand and we're just too ignorant to get it.

No logical counter is given. No explanation of -how- our interpretation is incorrect. Just the assertion that it's incorrect and then some recounting of story from tradition that isn't in their Hadith.

But we are getting side-tracked, here.
 

Babadook

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Which reality? Whose reality?

The last speech? Really? According to whom?

The Hadith give no such account. You should know me better, by now. There's a reason I demand Muslims cite a reference in the Qu'ran or Hadith when none is given for a claim.
I know you well enough. You are notorious for quoting things out of context, misquoting things, using ad hominem, ad verecundiam, strawman arguments as well as red herrings and altogether the Gish Gallop by posting long arse posts that you require your opponent to read while you don't always bother to reply when others- like me- have answered with a long arse post. :) Did I miss some great fetaures of you?

Anyway, I digress.

That "last speech" actually comes from Syed F. H. Faizi, who pulled that sermon from various derived books that were not accepted by the ulema. He didn't know the source, and therefor couldn't cite one.
And that accusation comes from islamwatch dot org. Very legit source of information. Well, most of your knowledge regarding islam is derived from sites that fall into a pattern of confirmation bias. You didn't even have the guts to link the site smh.

No such sermon exists in authenticated Hadith.
Wikipedia. At least check wikipedia.

"The following hadith is reported in Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal:

From Abi Nadrah: Someone who heard the sermon of the Messenger of Allah in the middle of the days of at-Tashriq narrated to me that he said, "O people! Indeed, your Lord is one and your father is one. Indeed, there is no superiority of an Arab over a non-Arab, nor of a non-Arab over an Arab, nor of a white over a black, nor a black over a white, except by taqwa. Have I conveyed the message?" They replied, "You have conveyed it, Messenger of Allah!" Then he said, "What day is this?" They replied, "A sacred day." Then he said, "What month is this?" They replied, "A sacred month." Then he said, "What city is this?" They replied, "A sacred city." He said, "Allah has made your blood and your property (the narrator said, 'I don't know if he said "and your honor" or not') as sacred as this day of yours, in this month of yours, in this city of yours. Have I conveyed the message?" They replied, "You have conveyed it, Messenger of Allah!" He said, "Let whomever is present tell whomever is absent."




You can also see the source for that version of the last speech here:

Source: Musnad Ahmad 22978

Grade: Sahih (authentic) according to Al-Wadi’ee



But if you insist, I can quote you other ahadeeth.

- Thank God Who has removed from you the blemish of ignorance and its arrogance. O people, men are divided into classes: the pious and righteous, who are honorable in the sight of Allah, and the sinful and vicious, who are contemptible in the sight of Allah, whereas all men are the children of Adam and Adam had been created by Allah from clay. (Baihaqi, Tirmidhi).

- You are all the children of Adam, and Adam was created from the dust. Let the people give up boasting of their ancestors, otherwise they will stand more degraded than a mean insect in the sight of Allah. (Bazzar).



Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “There are certainly people who brag about their ancestors who have died. Verily, they are coal for Hellfire such that they are more contemptible to Allah than the beetle that rolls dung with its nose. Verily, Allah has removed from you the pride of the time of ignorance with its boasting about ancestors. Verily, either one is a believer who fears Allah or a miserable sinner. The people are all the children of Adam, and Adam was created from dust.”

Source: Sunan At-Tirmidhi 3955

Grade: Hasan (fair) according to Ibn Hajar




Hadith - Al-Tirmidhi #5198, Narrated AbuDharr [Ahmad transmitted it]
Allah's Messenger said to him, "You are not better than people with red or black skins unless you excel them in piety."



Narrated Anas bin Malik:

Allah's Apostle said, "You should listen to and obey, your ruler even if he was an Ethiopian (black) slave whose head looks like a raisin."

I suggest you check this site you. It contains legit hadiths on who are the best ones among muslims. None of them mention race, or being Arab.

From the Quran:

"O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted." (Sahih International, for your service)

Your favourite tafseer of Ibn Kathir on the above verse:

"Allah the Exalted declares to mankind that He has created them all from a single person, `Adam, and from that person He created his mate, Hawwa'. From their offspring He made nations, comprised of tribe, which include subtribes of all sizes. It was also said that `nations refers to non-Arabs, while `tribes refers to Arabs. Various statements about this were collected in an individual introduction from the book, Al-Inbah, by Abu `Amr Ibn `Abdul-Barr, and from the book, Al-Qasad wal-Amam fi Ma`rifah Ansab Al-Arab wal-`Ajam. Therefore, all people are the descendants of `Adam and Hawwa' and share this honor equally. The only difference between them is in the religion that revolves around their obedience to Allah the Exalted and their following of His Messenger . After He forbade backbiting and belittling other people, alerting mankind that they are all equal in their humanity.

(Verily, the most honorable of you with Allah is that (believer) who has At-Taqwa.) meaning, `you earn honor with Allah the Exalted on account of Taqwa, not family lineage.' There are many Hadiths from the Prophet that support this meaning. Al-Bukhari narrated that Abu Hurayrah said, "Some people asked the Prophet , `Who is the most honorable among people' He replied, (The most honorable among them with Allah is the one who has the most Taqwa.) They said, `We did not ask you about this.' He said, (Then the most honorable person is Yusuf, Allah's Prophet, the son of Allah's Prophet, the son of Allah's Prophet, the son of Allah's Khalil.) They said, `We did not ask you about this.' He said, (Then you want to ask me about the Arab lineage) They said, `Yes.' He said, (Those among you who were best in Jahiliyyah, are the best among you in Islam, if they attain religious understanding.)'' Al-Bukhari collected this Hadith in several places of his Sahih, An-Nasa'i did as well in the Tafsir section of his Sunan. Muslim recorded that Abu Hurayrah said that the Messenger of Allah said, (Verily, Allah does not look at your shapes or wealth, but he looks at your hearts and actions.) Ibn Majah also collected this Hadith. Ibn Abi Hatim recorded that `Abdullah bin `Umar said, "On the day Makkah was conquered, the Messenger of Allah performed Tawaf around the Ka`bah while riding his camel, Al-Qaswa', and was touching the corners with a stick he had in his hand. He did not find a place in the Masjid where his camel could sit and had to dismount on men's hands. He led his camel to the bottom of the valley, where he had her sit down. The Messenger of Allah later gave a speech while riding Al-Qaswa' and said, after thanking Allah the Exalted and praising Him as He should be praised, (O people! Allah the Exalted has removed from you the slogans of Jahiliyyah and its tradition of honoring forefathers. Men are of two types, a man who is righteous, fearful of Allah and honorable to Allah, or a man who is vicious, miserable and little to Allah the Exalted. Verily, Allah the Exalted and Most Honored said, (O mankind! We have created you from a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Verily, the most honorable of you with Allah is that (believer) who has At-Taqwa. Verily, Allah is All-Knowing, All-Aware.))"





"If the person who wishes to seek Islamic knowledge is not a native speaker of Arabic, he needs to learn the language and acquire a solid understanding of it. This will enable him to understand the meanings being indicated by the Qur’ân and Sunnah with respect to Islamic Law. Once he is equipped with this ability, he will be able to carry out what the Qur’ân and Sunnah command of him and shun what these two sources prohibit him. "
As I said: red herring. Learning Arabic has nothing to do with Arabs being superior: they are not, as I've already proved.
 
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