Actually I change my mind, I can't really prove that he had the training in the first place, since not being able to tolerate it could mean the training itself. But otherwise Orochimaru would surely destroy him given his much higher base stats translating into higher SM stats.
Now that I think about it, Base Kabutomaru is much closer or debatable superior to Oro, so even SM Oro is into question. Ill wait until an actual thread is made with conditions like these.
Orochimaru has already proven that he is more then capable of not only de-activating Kabuto's sage mode, but he also can remove his own chakra from kabuto's body with ease:
Can people stop with this crappy argument. Being able to take back his chakra doesn't begin to = Orochimaru being able to do it in combat. Not when Oro is outclassed in speed, reflexes, taijutsu, and ninjutsu here. Zero arguments have been made to think Orochimaru succeeds here.
Can people stop with this crappy argument. Being able to take back his chakra doesn't begin to = Orochimaru being able to do it in combat. Not when Oro is outclassed in speed, reflexes, taijutsu, and ninjutsu here. Zero arguments have been made to think Orochimaru succeeds here.
You are suggesting that speed, reflexes, and taijutsu are going to make or break this battle and that simply is not the case. Orochimaru is filled with hax that even kabuto cant overcome and which is why kabuto wanted his power so much.
@ bold: Orochimaru touching and regaining his chakra from obito will not be a issue, the only question is how long is it going to take and the location. Orochimaru has many techniques that can leave kabuto paralyzed such as
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which will leave kabuto temporarily paralyzed and give orochimaru more then enough time to take his chakra back and deactivate his sage mode. Because kabuto openly admitted his inferiority to orochimaru's powerful chakra its clear that orochimaru can easily bind kabuto long enough to remove his chakra.
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Orochimaru also have the other option of fighting kabuto in his
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and
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. Which will also lead to kabuto getting deactivated and having his chakra removed.
Just because kabuto has sage mode doesnt give him the win, orochimaru is as versatile as hiruzen in terms of the utilization of jutsu and techniques. He has many ways to pull out a win.
You should pay closer attention to the details in the manga.
Kabuto only possesses: Senjutsu + some of orochimaru's chakra
Orochimaru possesses: Senjutsu + All his original powerful chakra + Hashirama's Cell boost
Kabuto's sage mode offers him senjutsu, yet orochimaru already has senjutsu + hashirama's cells. Kabuto may have access to hashirama's cells's but he didnt infuse them into his body like orochimaru did. So there is still a gap between the two in terms of who has the more powerful chakra and that goes to Orochimaru.
Kabuto totally dominates this fight, he has way better feats and way more powers. Hozuki+Uzumaki+Kaguya+Orochi healing factor basically makes Kabuto unkillable by Orochimaru.
I would like to say Orochimaru considering Orochimaru can potentially use Mokuton and Sage Mode whereas Kabuto had lost the majority of Orochimaru's' chakra that made him so powerful and possibly allowed him to sustain Sage Mode in the first place.
You are suggesting that speed, reflexes, and taijutsu are going to make or break this battle and that simply is not the case. Orochimaru is filled with hax that even kabuto cant overcome and which is why kabuto wanted his power so much.
Lol another joke. Everything in Orochimaru's arsenal Kabuto possess, period. Kabuto made his body part of Orochimaru so there's nothing that Oro can do that could take him out, as much as someone part of him with a "Super Form".
@ bold: Orochimaru touching and regaining his chakra from obito will not be a issue, the only question is how long is it going to take and the location.
Lol is this a joke this jutsu has only been effected to people and fodders, and fodder animals which are far inferior mind and body to Oro. And yet you think this is going to work again a Super Orochimaru yet alone any Kage level Shinobi's. Not talking you serious here, you are desperately reaching here.
Because kabuto openly admitted his inferiority to orochimaru's powerful chakra its clear that orochimaru can easily bind kabuto long enough to remove his chakra.
Lol what a joke, and also selective reading. Kabuto admitting inferiority dont mean crap when he outright gain Oro powerful chakra and used it for himself. And manga outright showed his progression of having Orochimaru's DNA[
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>
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] and finally tamed it via War arc[
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]. .So that gap now is Orochimaru = Orochimaru. Nah never mind its more like Orochimaru < Orochimaru+Kabuto mix + other DNA Mix
Bro you know nothing about Kabuto LMAO. Kabuto POSSESSES ALL OF ORO JUTSU AND OUTRIGHT SHOWS USING THESE MOVES. Yet you think Kabuto would get effected to all the fluids that Kabuto has become part of, LMAO!
Just because kabuto has sage mode doesnt give him the win, orochimaru is as versatile as hiruzen in terms of the utilization of jutsu and techniques. He has many ways to pull out a win.
Lol all your arguments are trashed and ignorant on Kabuto's behalf. Your attempting to argue Orochimaru fights his superior self, which also has all of his abilities + More, is really sad. Throw in Hiruzen and he still losses
You should pay closer attention to the details in the manga.
Kabuto only possesses: Senjutsu + some of orochimaru's chakra
Orochimaru possesses: Senjutsu + All his original powerful chakra + Hashirama's Cell boost
Kabuto's sage mode offers him senjutsu, yet orochimaru already has senjutsu + hashirama's cells. Kabuto may have access to hashirama's cells's but he didnt infuse them into his body like orochimaru did. So there is still a gap between the two in terms of who has the more powerful chakra and that goes to Orochimaru.
Um no you pay close attention to manga instead of selected reading.
1. Kabuto possessing some of Oro is irrelevant since he only needed "more" to strengthen the binding of Edo, fact. That part is irrelevant to the effects of this match up.
2. Oro use of Senjutsu is far inferior and not helping him at all to in this match up. As he has no feats to suggest he can balance the nature and increase his attacks and phyical body to that as SM users.
3. All Hashirama cells do is give him limited Mokuton ability, and a Physical/Stamina boost, absolutely nothing else. So its irrelevant to Orochimaru's attack power output.
Lol another joke. Everything in Orochimaru's arsenal Kabuto possess, period. Kabuto made his body part of Orochimaru so there's nothing that Oro can do that could take him out, as much as someone part of him with a "Super Form".
Dude I don't think you fully understand how kabuto's body modifications work. Just because kabuto absorbed orochimaru's DNA does not mean he has access to all of Orochimaru's techniques as you stated in the Bold. Kabuto does not have:
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Kage Bunshin no Jutsu
Orochimaru no Juinjutsu
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And the manga and Databook support that. Kabuto would have to know the proper hand signs to activate these techniques, so just because he has orochiamaru's DNA does not mean he can use these techniques. On the other hand
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, which means orochimaru has full intel on kabuto and makes this fight lean more in Orochimaru;s favor anyway.
By your logic Obito, Madara, Naruto, Danzo, Yamato, and Orochimaru should all be able to use Hashirama's
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, because they all have his DNA inside them. That is absolutely ridiculous!!!
Lol is this a joke this jutsu has only been effected to people and fodders, and fodder animals which are far inferior mind and body to Oro. And yet you think this is going to work again a Super Orochimaru yet alone any Kage level Shinobi's. Not talking you serious here, you are desperately reaching here.
Please stop using the word Super Orochimaru, kabuto cant be super orochimaru if he constantly states that he needs orochimaru's chakra becuase its more powerful then his own. Orochimaru by default still has more powerful chakra than kabuto (these are kabuto's words, not my own).
And to correct your BOLD about Kanashibari no Jutsu, please read this databook entry:
Kanashibari no Jutsu
A technique that physically restrains an opponent, as if the opponent had been tied in invisible steel ropes. It debilitates the victim for a short period of time, which allows the user to either strike again, or take the target into custody. This ninjutsu intensity will vary greatly according to the user's level of skill. The technique can also be cast on every target at once, depending on the user's skill, and won't fail a shinobi during their missions.
First Databook, page 176
The underline states that it's intensity varies greatly according to the users level of skill, and since we have already established multiple times (even you agreed) that orochimaru's power is greater than kabuto's and since the manga and databook both stated that orochimaru is
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, its common sense that kabuto would be caught in the jutsu. It is clearly stated that the skill level of caster is what determines who is caught and kabuto is nowhere near as skillful as orochimaru (which is why he implanted different poeple's DNA within himself) and also orochimaru strength of his chakra easily overpowers kabuto's own chakra.
Once again, kabuto is not a super orochimaru. Thats like saying obito is a super hashirama because he has hashirama DNA + mokuton + a mangekyuo sharingan.. It doesnt make any since; kabuto is not as powerful as orochiamaru even if he has a few of orochiamaru's own techniques.
Lol what a joke, and also selective reading. Kabuto admitting inferiority dont mean crap when he outright gain Oro powerful chakra and used it for himself. And manga outright showed his progression of having Orochimaru's DNA[
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>
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] and finally tamed it via War arc[
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]. .So that gap now is Orochimaru = Orochimaru. Nah never mind its more like Orochimaru < Orochimaru+Kabuto mix + other DNA Mix
Bro you know nothing about Kabuto LMAO. Kabuto POSSESSES ALL OF ORO JUTSU AND OUTRIGHT SHOWS USING THESE MOVES. Yet you think Kabuto would get effected to all the fluids that Kabuto has become part of, LMAO!
Um no you pay close attention to manga instead of selected reading.
1. Kabuto possessing some of Oro is irrelevant since he only needed "more" to strengthen the binding of Edo, fact. That part is irrelevant to the effects of this match up.
2. Oro use of Senjutsu is far inferior and not helping him at all to in this match up. As he has no feats to suggest he can balance the nature and increase his attacks and phyical body to that as SM users.
3. All Hashirama cells do is give him limited Mokuton ability, and a Physical/Stamina boost, absolutely nothing else. So its irrelevant to Orochimaru's attack power output.
1. It is relevant when we are discussing who has the more powerful chakra, because if orochimaru's chakra is superior than he can easily overcome kabuto with his Kanashibari no Jutsu, deactivate kabuto's Sage mode, and take his chakra back. Orochimaru had stronger chakra before he was ressurected, so now that he is back and also has hashirama's DNA he definitely trumps kabuto 3/10th or whatever smaller percentage that he has. And you have already admitted multiple times that orochimaru has superior chakra so thats game.
2. The fact that he created sealing jutsu with senjutsu means that he is able to balance its nature.
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. And his body has received a physical and stamina boost by him absorbing zetsu.
3. It gives the user mokuton abilities, auto regeneration, a stamina boost, and also increase that power of ones strength/chakra power which has been stated many times in the manga. Hashirama even made reference that orochimaru used his cells to increase the POWER of his techniques
Please come back with actual proof and not a more of that Super Orochimaru non sense. That isnt accurate in the slightest way. By that Logic naruto must be Super Hashirama and Nagato must have been Super Madara, and Obito must have been Super Hagaromo.
XD
And as a side note, because im sure you forgot.
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which could also mean his body has more senjutsu chakra than originally.
Dude I don't think you fully understand how kabuto's body modifications work. Just because kabuto absorbed orochimaru's DNA does not mean he has access to all of Orochimaru's techniques as you stated in the Bold. Kabuto does not have:
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Kage Bunshin no Jutsu
Orochimaru no Juinjutsu
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And the manga and Databook support that. Kabuto would have to know the proper hand signs to activate these techniques, so just because he has orochiamaru's DNA does not mean he can use these techniques.
Den'ien'ei (伝異遠影, Tradition Strange Distant Shadow - as "the strange shadows passed down over a long time.")
Utilising the power of senjutsu, Kabuto is able to freely use the abilities, talents, and kekkei genkai of the shinobi whose DNA he integrates within himself. As a strategic alternative, he can instead channel their collective abilities into mindless clones, respective to each shinobi, that are generated through his naval snake.
Please share with me how full intel of each other means Oro has intel advantage. Please share with me how full intel gives him the right to counter Kabuto's jutsus.
Still makes zero sense to think he is going to pull it off. Not when Kabuto has better strike speed, reflexes, and Hashirama poison, that has Orochimaru down by a mere bite.
Please stop using the word Super Orochimaru, kabuto cant be super orochimaru if he constantly states that he needs orochimaru's chakra becuase its more powerful then his own. Orochimaru by default still has more powerful chakra than kabuto (these are kabuto's words, not my own).
And to correct your BOLD about Kanashibari no Jutsu, please read this databook entry:
The underline states that it's intensity varies greatly according to the users level of skill, and since we have already established multiple times (even you agreed) that orochimaru's power is greater than kabuto's and since the manga and databook both stated that orochimaru is
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, its common sense that kabuto would be caught in the jutsu. It is clearly stated that the skill level of caster is what determines who is caught and kabuto is nowhere near as skillful as orochimaru (which is why he implanted different poeple's DNA within himself) and also orochimaru strength of his chakra easily overpowers kabuto's own chakra.
Once again, kabuto is not a super orochimaru. Thats like saying obito is a super hashirama because he has hashirama DNA + mokuton + a mangekyuo sharingan.. It doesnt make any since; kabuto is not as powerful as orochiamaru even if he has a few of orochiamaru's own techniques.
1. It is relevant when we are discussing who has the more powerful chakra, because if orochimaru's chakra is superior than he can easily overcome kabuto with his Kanashibari no Jutsu, deactivate kabuto's Sage mode, and take his chakra back. Orochimaru had stronger chakra before he was ressurected, so now that he is back and also has hashirama's DNA he definitely trumps kabuto 3/10th or whatever smaller percentage that he has. And you have already admitted multiple times that orochimaru has superior chakra so thats game.
2. The fact that he created sealing jutsu with senjutsu means that he is able to balance its nature.
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. And his body has received a physical and stamina boost by him absorbing zetsu.
3. It gives the user mokuton abilities, auto regeneration, a stamina boost, and also increase that power of ones strength/chakra power which has been stated many times in the manga. Hashirama even made reference that orochimaru used his cells to increase the POWER of his techniques
Please come back with actual proof and not a more of that Super Orochimaru non sense. That isnt accurate in the slightest way. By that Logic naruto must be Super Hashirama and Nagato must have been Super Madara, and Obito must have been Super Hagaromo.
XD
And as a side note, because im sure you forgot.
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which could also mean his body has more senjutsu chakra than originally.
Just sat down a thought it over and your right. Even with zetsu, orochimaru still doesnt have the feats for me to say he can defeat kabuto. I realized I had misinformed myself on certain things.
I think the nostalgia that orochimaru brings me clouded my judgement on this match, but none-the-less you are right.
VIZ:"Kabuto: Jugo's clan have always had control over natural energy sources.
That's the secret behind those rampages..The ability causes them to suddenly become more powerful and wild. Lord Orochimaru wasn't interested in Jugo's rampages...So much as the Origin of his clans power.
He Finally tracked down the source of the power... And that was the Ryuchi Cave.
Lord Orochimaru immediately tried to acquire that power... But.. He didn't yet possess a body that could tolerate it..Thats why..."
It implies Orochimaru trained for it but his body couldn't tolerate the implementation of it. That could mean Oro can utilise it now that he has a Zetsu body. And as I said before, scale all their feats identically and Oro wins because he'd be far higher given his base stats are much higher. Not to mention he can outsmart Kabuto, his healing is probably superior given he's been cut in half, his chakra is more potent, etc. Sound 5 abilities won't win it for Kabuto.
You can assume as much as you'd like, interpret it in the way that benefits you most, but what is bolded is just what it is. "Orochimaru immediately tried to access this power...". This could imply training but does not directly state that Orochimaru partook in training for this process. In fact, this could be interpreted in several ways, such as it implying that Orochimaru brought test samples of the subject back to his laboratory for studying and tests. He most likely tested the effect it had on several individuals, studied the results and made conclusions (Actually, that's exactly what he did. It' s a fact, right in the Manga), but no "training" was required or even attempted for him to make himself eligible for sage mode. assuming he could even manage "training" in such an ill body that he was made near crippled and killed in bed by Sasuke. Try to make arguments that are canon to (and proven by fact based off of) Manga and Anime, rather than push a debate based off of a rudimentary theory. Please, I'm bored, I encourage you to attempt countering me.
