[Discussion] What's your thought on multiculturalism and immigration?

Astarte

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I see many people from developed countries (mostly european countries) complaining about immigrants or disliking a heterogenous population. There are still having many nationalist and racist movements nowadays, as in Ukraine, for example, where are many Neo-Nazi parties that have an absurd number of supporters and were the main responsible for their crisis. Greece also has a big Neo-Nazi party (Golden Dawn). The number of right wing parties is increasing in other countries too, such as France, Spain, etc.

What's your thought on that matter? Do you agree or not with multiculturalism and immigration?
 
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Kaneki Kun

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They all make great food so I welcome them with open arms.
 

Hàdes1

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Its bad really.

Every country have its own culture (if they arent in another culture)

Everyone with the same culture would make the world really plain. Nothing new. Nothing unique
 

Power Bottom

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I believe people are idiots for complaining about something like this.

I agree with it.
 

Astarte

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Its bad really.

Every country have its own culture (if they arent in another culture)

Everyone with the same culture would make the world really plain. Nothing new. Nothing unique

I like the idea of preserving each culture, but I don't like the idea of using violence against immigrants or any different folk, many immigrants go to another country seeking better living conditions and a decent life. They are humans too.
 

Jazzy Stardust

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Well I live in and have been to every state in the US. So I have no problem with it, the more different cultures and people you are exposed to overall help you be a better person.
 

Wabbit

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It should nt be problem if immigrants and governments stay secular.
Politicians often tilt towards immigrants and **** natives and then you get another who promises to stop them.
 

Babadook

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The government here has just launched a campaign against immigration. They made big placards on the streets. The placards say things like 'don't take away our jobs if you come here' . Some activists painted black the texts, and so now the police are protecting the placards. *facepalm*

Then the next day when an egyptian politician came here, the pm said that 'we respect your country and foreigners'.

Hypocrisy at its best.

Also, there is a difference between refugees and immigrants. As for the former, if it's verified that the person is persecuted, then he/she is eligible for refugee status (according to EU laws). You can't tell these people to go home...Go home where? Into the middle of a war?
As for so called 'economical' immigrants...well, here it's not as big a problem as they are trying to make it look like. Emigration is a bigger problem- and our emigrants are the immigrants of other countries. There are about half a million people working in the West, and only 40000 people asked for refugee status in the past 2-3 yrs, out of which only about 500 get the status yearly. Now the other 39500 go further to Western-Europe. So I guess it's a bigger problem there, but migration has always been there in the world, so we are all descendants of people who were once migrants.

Some interesting statistics:

Structurally, there is substantial South-South and North-North migration, i.e., most emigrant from high-income OECD countries migrate to other high-income countries, and a substantial part (estimated at 43%) of emigrants from developing countries migrate to other developing countries. The United Nations Population Fund says that, “While the North has experienced a higher absolute increase in the migrant stock since 2000 (32 million) compared to the South (25 million), the South recorded a higher growth rate. Between 2000 and 2013, the average annual rate of change of the migrant population in the developing regions (2.3%) slightly exceeded that of the developed regions (2.1%).

The top ten destination countries are the USA, Russian Federation, Germany, Saudi Arabia, Canada, the UK, Spain, France, Australia and India. The top ten countries of origin are Mexico, India, the Russian Federation, China, Ukraine, Bangladesh, Pakistan, the UK, the Philippines and Turkey.[citation needed]

The top ten migration corridors worldwide are 1. Mexico–United States; 2. Russia–Ukraine; 3. Ukraine–Russia; 4. Bangladesh–India; 5. Turkey–Germany; 6. Kazakhstan–Russia; 7. Russia–Kazakhstan; 8. China–Hong Kong; 9. China–United States; 10. Philippines–United States.

Remittance, i.e., funds transferred by migrant workers to their home country, is a substantial part of the œconomy of some countries. The top ten remittance recipients in 2010 were (estimates in billion US dollar) 1. India (55; 2.7% of GDP), 2. China (51; 0.5% of GNP), Mexico (22.6; 1.8% of GDP), Philippines (21.3; 7.8% of GDP), France (15.9; 0.5% of GDP), Germany (11.6; 0.2% of GDP), Bangladesh (11.1; 7.2% of GDP), Belgium (10.4; 1.9% of GDP), Spain (10.2; 0.7% of GDP), Nigeria (10.0; 1.9% of GDP)





While I'm not saying it is not causing issues/tensions, but the fuss going on is a bit exaggerated imo. Not all immigrants are bad, and many of them have assimilated. I know many people like that. But I understand the concerns of those who had negative experience with immigrants. But the media of course shows only the problematic people. It's not news that Muhammad XY found a job and lives a normal life like his neighbor John Smith. The irony is that the other day a representative, who himself is a lebanonese immigrant, said that immigration is bad coz they'll start blowing things up. Yeah sure. Like, how many bombings happened here by immigrants in the past years? Zero. There a few individuals in Europe every year who start a shooting but still millions can live normally here. I also know that immigrants are overrepresented in crime statistics, but that goes for minorities in general. We have native ethnic minorities here who are responsible for 90% of crimes. Now I know that prevention is better than regret, but generalizing is stupid imho. And I like chinese turkish indian etc cuisine. The other day I sat in a chinese restaurant where they were also selling japanese tea and there was coffee offered, written on the wall in arabic. Is such multiculturalism bad? I don't think so. I find it hypocritical to say 'we want business with you, we want your resources but don't come here with your culture'. Like, business has cultural implications too... You don't negotiate with a chinese the same as you do with an arab, f.e. People of different cultures could trade and live next to each other for millenia, sure there are tensions and clashes, and I know some people say 'even one of our people getting hurt is too much to pay for multiculturalism': but then ban animes too coz some kid killed himself when Itachi died...

And yeah rather extreme right wing parties are on the rise. It can be explained with game theory. Their strategy is aggressive and dominates others.
 
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BlacLord™

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Its bad really.

Every country have its own culture (if they arent in another culture)

Everyone with the same culture would make the world really plain. Nothing new. Nothing unique

The idea that a nation loses its cultural identity is false; any nation can be multicultural and keep its own culture at the core. The pros of immigration vastly outweigh the cons... and I can say that with confidence because I'm living in a country with an ever increasing immigrant population.

They're keeping England's economy above water and encourages tolerance. Even if we have lying c*nts leading some people to believe that all foreign people are "dirty criminals taking over the country."
 
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Filosoofis

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I see many people from developed countries (mostly european countries) complaining about immigrants or disliking a heterogenous population. There are still having many nationalist and racist movements nowadays, as in Ukraine, for example, where are many Neo-Nazi parties that have an absurd number of supporters and were the main responsible for their crisis. Greece also has a big Neo-Nazi party (Golden Dawn). The number of right wing parties is increasing in other countries too, such as France, Spain, etc.

What's your thought on that matter? Do you agree or not with multiculturalism and immigration?

I'm against multiculturalism since it is bad for the native population and culture of a country. There are schools in germany/UK/france where you can't eat whatever you want or wear because of Muslims on that school. That is something what is going too far for me. Most European countries are full enough we don't need more immigrants. There might have been a time when they were nice to have for the bad jobs but right now they are just grabbing money and after 10 years still no job or learned the language of the country. Europe should be only for Europeans or people who have potenial. Like north-Americans or High-developed countries in the east. Not those 3rd world Muslim/african countries.
 

Defence

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Its bad really.

Every country have its own culture (if they arent in another culture)

Everyone with the same culture would make the world really plain. Nothing new. Nothing unique

You can't enjoy the benefits that come with globalisation without integration of cultures. Free movement / asylum seekers comes as a consequence of starting up wars or joining unions to benefit from trading (EU).

People always want the benefits only and it doesn't work that way. Every culture is derives from a mixture of past cultures. There's no escaping mixing with others from other places. Looking back historically, we are all products of different origins.
 

Hàdes1

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The idea that a nation loses its cultural identity is false; any nation can be multicultural and keep its own culture at the core. The pros of immigration vastly outweigh the cons... and I can say that with confidence because I'm living in a country with an ever increasing immigrant population.

They're keeping England's economy above water and encourages tolerance. Even if we have lying c*nts leading some people to believe that all foreign people are "dirty criminals taking over the country."

Your wrong .

After a centry of multicultreing that culture will be lost/forgotten by the next generation

Many cultures experinenced that fate
 

BlacLord™

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Your wrong .

After a centry of multicultreing that culture will be lost/forgotten by the next generation

Many cultures experinenced that fate

No, you're wrong.

The UK and France have been experiencing multiculturalism for decades, and whilst other cultures have integrated themselves into said societies, "the core" has remained centre stage. Why? Because the roots have been growing and strengthening for more years than can be counted.

You're wrong about cultures disappearing due to the integration of others too. For two reasons: the first being that you're comparing the current time to those long ago. Long ago, the dynamics of the world shifted much more often and much more drastically due to the overwhelming desires for war and domination - that is not, and hasn't been so for many, many years. The British Empire dominated the world for an entire century, heavily implanting their mark on the cultures of many nations, especially India to which was known as the British Raj. Even with an overwhelming influence, India's culture remained wholly on top.

The influence of the empire was so present and strong on the global stage that it's golden era was dubbed Pax Britannica. Even with this much presence of the British culture, the cultures of other nations remained and remain strong to this day, despite battling a plethora of dynamic shifts in history. Cultures are dynamic and ever-changing anyway, regardless of attempted artificial input.

Secondly, cultures don't just end up "lost/forgotten" because a) If they were lost or forgotten, we wouldn't know they were lost or forgotten but since you are labelling cultures lost/forgotten, you know of their existence so they clearly aren't lost or forgotten because their existence are acknowledged and present and b) as I've already said, cultures are dynamic concepts which change and evolve over time of their own accord.
 

Ldude

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In my own country, multiculturalism is not as big an issue as it appears to be in Europe (based on what I've heard from native Europeans.) I can't comment much on multiculturalism in Europe because I'm not very knowledgeable in that region. However, it will suffice to say that I do not buy into "humanitarian" propaganda that a country must accept other people simply because their lives are tougher elsewhere. When people are illegally trying to enter a country, they cannot claim deserving to stay. There are actually people blaming European immigration laws for illegals dying at sea. Frankly, I find that absurd.

I live in the US, and I do support strong borders. Allowing illegal immigrants into our country is not going to help our economy. All of those people ought to be deported. Multiculturalism becomes a problem when foreigners come here and try to make everyone else cater to their old laws. Tolerance? Sure. Adapting the entire country for certain minority groups? Hell no.
 

Aim64C

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I see many people from developed countries (mostly european countries) complaining about immigrants or disliking a heterogenous population. There are still having many nationalist and racist movements nowadays, as in Ukraine, for example, where are many Neo-Nazi parties that have an absurd number of supporters and were the main responsible for their crisis. Greece also has a big Neo-Nazi party (Golden Dawn). The number of right wing parties is increasing in other countries too, such as France, Spain, etc.

What's your thought on that matter? Do you agree or not with multiculturalism and immigration?

The problem with most of these countries (including the U.S.) is that they have various cradle-to-grave policies where they argue that the government's responsibility is to take care of the poor and underprivileged - to be a 'safety net.'

Obviously, when you import a bunch of people from the shit holes of the world and then qualify them for such programs, you simply have a population that starts at the same level of dysfunction that such systems reduce their target populations to (IE - socialism depreciates the value of society and reduces it to a third world shit hole).

By providing for these groups through the ambiguousness of government systems, these people never have to integrate into your society. They never have to learn to work with other people, to share ideas with other people, or to look at the world in any other way than the way they did back when they were living in a shit hole. As such, they tend to take the same ideas that kept a society in a shit hole and try to apply them to countries that are not a shit hole.

The end result is a population that is entirely parasitic that exploits the political system to keep the integrated population subsidizing its existence and cries racism when anyone realizes that it's a purely negative deal.

So, no, once you adopt socialist policies, immigration kills you.

If you don't have socialist policies, immigration doesn't kill you.

Unless those immigrants bring socialist ideas with them and start using political pressure to get them passed.

Multiculturalism works to a point. The problem is that what many people fail to understand is that many cultures include a view of government. If my culture is Islam, then my view of government is essentially Sharia. That is what my culture expresses as right and just.

Sharia does not comply with western values. Therefor, the culture of Islam cannot be permitted within western nations - or at least cannot be allowed to gain any political power. It doesn't matter if that is what these people 'appreciate' - it is incompatible with the way of life of that nation and will destroy that nation if it allowed to take root.

The same goes for the socialist ideas of Europe being communicated to regions of the United States. The culture of Europe largely is that of unconstrained governments that have virtually unlimited power to intervene in any affairs deemed necessary. Governments manage the people.

This is the inverse of the culture in America and how the government and legal structure in America were set up to work (this has since changed, and a lot of people are about to die over the conflict that has grown over it). Even though many of us can trace our roots back to Europe and can even trace our family traditions and social culture back to European roots - the political culture has to be rejected and cannot be tolerated if America is to remain its own nation.

There are certain things about your nation that make it your nation. In the case of America, immigration and multiculturalism are fine up until the point when the structure of government begins to change and empower the various racial and interest groups over each other. The Constitution is supposed to preside over -all- special interests and stand as a common agreement that it is the model we are going to uphold.

When that changes, you no longer have America outside of an ambiguous claim to be American because of where you were born.

All of the individuals who are to be considered able to participate in their government's operations -must- be one with the key points of the culture of that nation. The U.S. has a rather simple unifying cultural point - the Constitution. Anyone who would be willing to sign their name to it, themselves as a legally binding contract can be considered to be a citizen. Compliance with the contract is the defining point of culture for Americans.

If people do not agree to that contract - they shouldn't be allowed to vote. They should be able to own property, own a business, have children, and go about their lives; but only those who agree with the rules of how our government works can participate in the government. Otherwise - it's a lawless government where special interests take priority and we end up killing each other - which is probably within two years from now, likely less.

Europe is a more exclusive club. The reason France is different from Spain and considered its own nation goes back thousands of years over countless wars that established territorial boundaries. In theory - a Constitutional government could work to create a union of the various nations within Europe - but the view of government in Europe dooms that solution to failure. Constitutions that establish limits upon a governing body are meaningless when the people expect and accept a government that can grant itself authority over any situation it sees fit.

Which means that it is even more important for people in Europe to ensure that the people they are letting into their societies are aboard with their ideas.

The reality is that Europe is about to literally explode over the next several years. The muslim populations are only going to get more antagonistic and more accusatory of those around them. This is going to start to become ridiculous, even to the average person. Politicians will try to appease both groups but end up only pissing everyone off. The groups that are saying something about it (various supremacist groups keyed to the themes of each nation they are in) will end up getting more general support because these groups are the only ones appealing to the personal experience of the average person.

The average person isn't (or wasn't) a racist until they are expected to apologize and bend over backwards for a population that shot up an art gallery deemed offensive to a religion.

Now, there are people who will spread both cheeks and ask for it without the lube - Europe has plenty of them, too. Which is why it's going to become such a mess.

So - if by "culture" you mean things like style of dress, food, and family traditions, then - yes, multiculturalism and immigration are fine.

If by "culture" you mean 'ideas of government' and 'purpose of law' - then, no, multiculturalism and immigration will destroy nations.

If you are going to move to France, then you need to learn to be French. If you are going to move to Korea, then you need to learn to be Korean. If you are going to move to Russia, you need to learn to be Russian. - Or, at least how to interface with these groups and become part of their society (even if you preserve your own traditions... and why would you move some place that does not allow you to preserve traditions you are attached to?).
 

Hàdes1

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No, you're wrong.

The UK and France have been experiencing multiculturalism for decades, and whilst other cultures have integrated themselves into said societies, "the core" has remained centre stage. Why? Because the roots have been growing and strengthening for more years than can be counted.

You're wrong about cultures disappearing due to the integration of others too. For two reasons: the first being that you're comparing the current time to those long ago. Long ago, the dynamics of the world shifted much more often and much more drastically due to the overwhelming desires for war and domination - that is not, and hasn't been so for many, many years. The British Empire dominated the world for an entire century, heavily implanting their mark on the cultures of many nations, especially India to which was known as the British Raj. Even with an overwhelming influence, India's culture remained wholly on top.

The influence of the empire was so present and strong on the global stage that it's golden era was dubbed Pax Britannica. Even with this much presence of the British culture, the cultures of other nations remained and remain strong to this day, despite battling a plethora of dynamic shifts in history. Cultures are dynamic and ever-changing anyway, regardless of attempted artificial input.

Secondly, cultures don't just end up "lost/forgotten" because a) If they were lost or forgotten, we wouldn't know they were lost or forgotten but since you are labelling cultures lost/forgotten, you know of their existence so they clearly aren't lost or forgotten because their existence are acknowledged and present and b) as I've already said, cultures are dynamic concepts which change and evolve over time of their own accord.

That doesnt apply to all cultures. People are diff

I know some countries that speak diff languge than theirs

They were invaded but they taken that culture and forgotten theirs

Also about lost/forgotten thing. I didnt mean they were forgotten by history. I meant that they arent paracticed by its people anymore
 
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Brian Griffin

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The reason why life in Europe is better is because they have lot of land,resources and low population.The immigrants are leaving their home countries because of too much population,corruption and poverty.
They should stay in their home nation fix their own nation than giving their skills to some other nation.

Their are multiculturalism and immigration problems not just in Europe but in every Nation and state in the world.Hong Kong has same problem against chinese who are not born in Hong kong.

The recent happenings and Nazi groups on Europe are just a distraction created by corrupt politicians and bankers who sold all the land to some chinese billionairs who will never use those lands
 

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Not to shabby. Usually these kind of threads do get out of hand already and I end up having to trash it. I am thinking about closing it however it's not that bad overall. Let's keep it that way so that I do not have to trash this thread.
 

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It can be good or bad, really.

I come from Saudi Arabia, and more than 10% of the population are immigrants; some from India, Pakistan and Africa. As Bond said; immigration can be good to strengthen the economy. These 10% immigrants are slave labours, who are backbone in engineering construction, house servants, street cleaning, etc. But even that has its own cons, since native will find it hard to be employed.

As for multiculturalism, not really. As long as domestic policies remain in place and immigration does not allow this, then the native culture will remain at its place - Gulf Arab states are an example of that. They are immigrant, slave labour force but its culture still governs the laws.
 
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