Kakuzu vs Hebi Sasuke

Lord Tywin

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Distance is 30 meters
Location is Deidara vs Sasuke.
Orochimaru can't take control of Sasuke. So no 8 headed serpent.
 

Omar19992010

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It'd be a tough Match but I'd go with Kakuzu High Difficulty.
 

Zexion~

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Manda makes this rough, but Kakuzu takes it.
 

KidGamer65

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Hebi Sasuke>Wind Arc Base Naruto>Kakuzu at full power.

I wonder who wins? :rolleyes:
 

Xlad

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Sasuke shits.
 

Zexion~

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Okay, i've simmered down a bit with Kakuzu but these threads are too much.

Speed-I know everyone likes to god hype his massive speed, but lets take a look at Deidara, who was not only able to dodge him while distracted (Which Kakuzu being the less arrogant and loudmouthed combatant WON'T be) -
Then again reacted to it despite not even looking at him, . Now then lets take a look at how Deidara fared in the past against a similar opponent of Kakuzu's.



- - (Substitution wasn't used till after hence the "guh"). Whats that? He was blitzed by an even lesser base Naruto? Sure he had no arms but Kakuzu wasn't in prime condition himself :lol but hey, who am I to say that plot isn't a thing :rolleyes:

Kakuzu has already shown he can react to Kakashi's top speed (Raikiri speed=Top speed) - sure he thought he was dead and his reactions were down but that doesn't change the fact that he was traveling top speed (rated = to Hebi Sasuke's) yet he was still able to intercept him. So if you think Sasuke is going to close down 15 m and magically chidori Kakuzu through the chest you're surely mistaken, :lol

Raiton- Sure Sasuke can manipulate his Chidori into rather interesting variants but give me one of those besides Kirin which is rarely used that shows any hint of being devastating. Meanwhile Kakuzu's got more elements on a much more massive scale coming at him from all angles and you really think he's going to be able to land a blow? Even if he did make a run for Kakuzu please tell me you are all intelligent enough to realize where the hearts would be? He would literally be turning his back on the main offensive threat. Which in turn gets him blasted from behind with any jutsu really, Pre-Cog isn't working when your not even looking at them, and his jutsu are large enough so that not reacting to them at the precise moment gets you killed.

Curse Mark- Not much to really note here, his wings aren't tanking the fuuton as they would merely provide a vessel for Sasuke to be crushed in, tbh if he tries to use wings to defend, the gian heart would rip through them and end his life, as again he has to block his eye sight.

Those are the only real main threats here besides Manda which if anyone bothers to make an argument i'll take down.

In the end Sasuke can dodge around for a bit, but the moment he tries and goes offensive his lack of devastating firepower and sturdy defenses get him killed.
 

ARGUS

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Sasuke wins mid diff
 

Team7monaa

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The distance is really favoring Kakuzu but Sasuke's got the elemental advantage and the Sharingan to his use. He can definitely get rid of Kakuzu's Doton heart, that's almost a given. He'll need to summons some snakes in order to keep pace with the rest of the hearts and Manda's actually got some feats to throw around here. If Sasuke manages to keep Kakuzu at bay enough to prep Kirin, then it's a game.

Sasuke High-Diff.
 

New Dawn

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Kakuzu hi diff cuz of elemental adv + curse mark + summons. Take the last 2 awayitll be low-mid.
 

KidGamer65

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Okay, i've simmered down a bit with Kakuzu but these threads are too much.

Speed-I know everyone likes to god hype his massive speed, but lets take a look at Deidara, who was not only able to dodge him while distracted (Which Kakuzu being the less arrogant and loudmouthed combatant WON'T be) -
Then again reacted to it despite not even looking at him, . Now then lets take a look at how Deidara fared in the past against a similar opponent of Kakuzu's.



- - (Substitution wasn't used till after hence the "guh"). Whats that? He was blitzed by an even lesser base Naruto? Sure he had no arms but Kakuzu wasn't in prime condition himself :lol but hey, who am I to say that plot isn't a thing :rolleyes:

Dude, what?

1. Deidara reacted the second time because Obito literally screamed out that Sasuke was above him.

2. Deidara ever legitimately get blitzed by Base Naruto. He reacted in the first panel, and the second one was a surprise attack. Not to mention it was a clone. Not sure why you are trying to prove that substitution wasn't used till after when Naruto punched Deidara, never lost sight of him (neither did we the reader lose sight of him) and beat the crap out of him till the clone reverted to normal. Deidara never got blitzed. He reacted to surprise attack 1, and then Naruto got a clone with surprise attack 2.

3. Even if these are both legit, it just means Deidara was unable to react to a surprise attack from Naruto. Don't compare a surprise attack against someone with no kind of extra perception like sensing to a straight forward attack. Plot is obviously not involved.

Kakuzu has already shown he can react to Kakashi's top speed (Raikiri speed=Top speed) - sure he thought he was dead and his reactions were down but that doesn't change the fact that he was traveling top speed (rated = to Hebi Sasuke's) yet he was still able to intercept him. So if you think Sasuke is going to close down 15 m and magically chidori Kakuzu through the chest you're surely mistaken, :lol

No, it's not. Shunshin speed>Obviously the speed Sasuke and Kakashi use Raikiri at. Why in the world would you even compare someone running to them using chakra to augment their speed in the form of a quick burst? That is Shunshin. All of Sasuke and Kakashi's best speed feats come from Shunshin. Not Chidori/Raikiri. So reacting to Kakashi running doesn't mean that he can react to Sasuke's Shunshin, which is faster than Early Part 2 Kakashi's Shunshin at any rate. Not sure where you got the bold from, but if you'd like to correct me by showing me any speed feats that prove Kakashi's Shunshin at that point=Sasuke's Shunshin, then I'll be obliged to agree.

Considering 15m is shorter (I think) than the distance Hebi Sasuke almost blitzed Deidara at, and considering Deidara's speed feats are better than Kakuzu's, I wouldn't be surprised if he was able to blitz. But the distance is 30 meters. So a blitz won't occur here.

Raiton- Sure Sasuke can manipulate his Chidori into rather interesting variants but give me one of those besides Kirin which is rarely used that shows any hint of being devastating. Meanwhile Kakuzu's got more elements on a much more massive scale coming at him from all angles and you really think he's going to be able to land a blow? Even if he did make a run for Kakuzu please tell me you are all intelligent enough to realize where the hearts would be? He would literally be turning his back on the main offensive threat. Which in turn gets him blasted from behind with any jutsu really, Pre-Cog isn't working when your not even looking at them, and his jutsu are large enough so that not reacting to them at the precise moment gets you killed.
Yes, he can't just loldash for Kakuzu and hope for the best. Doesn't mean he won't be able to land a blow. Pre cog isn't needed to dodge half of Kakuzu's attacks as none of them are fast except for Gian given Kakashi's performance against them. That's why he can just pick off the masks first. If he closes in on each one in close quarters, it's GG since reacting to Sasuke's Shunshin from less than 15 meters is hard or impossible for Kakuzu let alone the masks. Chidori Eiso right to the mask should be strong enough to obliterate each one, or maybe some Katon used in close quarters so the other masks can't rescue the targeted one.

Summons like Manda and Fodder Snakes used by Oro in Part 1 should be enough to meatshield the elemental attacks if need be. They also let Sasuke heat up the atmosphere with Katon so he can use Kirin. Considering they are literally right next to a forest, meaning Sasuke can set trees on fire with Katon to fuel his attack, pulling it off shouldn't be too hard. Once Kirin is prepped. It's truly GG Kakuzu. Even if Sasuke can't take him out by picking off his masks and then picking off the main body, evade, protecting himself, and setting up Kirin is a good enough strategy to decisively take the match.

Curse Mark- Not much to really note here, his wings aren't tanking the fuuton as they would merely provide a vessel for Sasuke to be crushed in, tbh if he tries to use wings to defend, the gian heart would rip through them and end his life, as again he has to block his eye sight.

When will you stop saying this? If the Wind is not strong enough to get past his wings and crush him, then it won't crush him. It's not going to magically bypass his wings and crush them both along with Sasuke. The jutsu states that it crushes the opponent with extreme air pressure or some stuff like that. Where does that imply that a defense attached to his body won't work? Lol. Gian can't be used while Fuuton is hitting Sasuke, so this scenario of yours isn't ever going to occur. If Kakuzu uses Fuuton, it hits Sasuke and he tanks it. If he follows up with Gian, Sasuke easily evades it or he blocks with Black Chidori.
 

super yang

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kakuzu wins

sasuke hasn't a single advantage ITT
 

Oblivionx

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Kakazu takes it...! that arc kakashi without MS was stronger or equal to hebi sasuke and still failed to take down kakazu even with stealth advantage as kakazu was focused to enemy infront so even if sasuke is as good as kakashi, in a one on one he ain't even taking that doton heart down easily... sasuke fans like to compare that arc naruto with sasuke since sasuke was stronger at that point in time and naruto took down kakazu without realizing that it was plot that gave naruto the win and FRS is far more destructive than any jutsu hebi sasuke has. it took down 3 hearts at once.
kakazu mid to high diff...
 

Zexion~

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So its one of these days.

Dude, what?

1. Deidara reacted the second time because Obito literally screamed out that Sasuke was above him.

:lol so being slow enough for Tobi to exclaim that is still a thing.

2. Deidara ever legitimately get blitzed by Base Naruto. He reacted in the first panel, and the second one was a surprise attack. Not to mention it was a clone. Not sure why you are trying to prove that substitution wasn't used till after when Naruto punched Deidara, never lost sight of him (neither did we the reader lose sight of him) and beat the crap out of him till the clone reverted to normal. Deidara never got blitzed. He reacted to surprise attack 1, and then Naruto got a clone with surprise attack 2.

He didn't react the first time, Naruto went for Gaara.

Are you good? That is exactly what happened to Kakuzu, he had his eyes on what he thought was the real Naruto the got slammed from behind. Don't know why you're saying clone when Kakashi stated it was substitution Which he didn't use till after Naruto punched him in the face as he clearly has blood running from his mouth that he didn't have before.

Before:

After:

3. Even if these are both legit, it just means Deidara was unable to react to a surprise attack from Naruto. Don't compare a surprise attack against someone with no kind of extra perception like sensing to a straight forward attack. Plot is obviously not involved.

A surprise attack based on a clone feint Naruto had planned from the beginning...that is EXACTLY what happened to Kakuzu. Of course its plot, unless you want to tell me how that clone/real Naruto got all the way behind Deidara, that quickly, without him noticing. Hey...wait, that sounds like what happened to Kakuzu.


No, it's not. Shunshin speed>Obviously the speed Sasuke and Kakashi use Raikiri at. Why in the world would you even compare someone running to them using chakra to augment their speed in the form of a quick burst? That is Shunshin. All of Sasuke and Kakashi's best speed feats come from Shunshin. Not Chidori/Raikiri. So reacting to Kakashi running doesn't mean that he can react to Sasuke's Shunshin, which is faster than Early Part 2 Kakashi's Shunshin at any rate. Not sure where you got the bold from, but if you'd like to correct me by showing me any speed feats that prove Kakashi's Shunshin at that point=Sasuke's Shunshin, then I'll be obliged to agree.

Doesn't change the fact at all that he can use Shunsin with the Raikiri, for short bursts which is what that was.

Anyways, i'm not going to go through the manga and link every shunsin feat of Kakashi's they've faced different opponents..and there never is really any definite proof that it was one or the other (shunsin/normal speed) except mere debaters conjecture (maybe sometimes it has a sfx) Kakashi did engage Sasuke

Kakuzu's jutsu are fast, faster than C2 arguably which Sasuke could barely avoid, especially when the hearts themselves are nearer to Sasuke than they were Kakashi (Kakuzu wanted his heart) Lets not forget Kakuzu has reacted to a Bijuu attack directly in front of him as well and he's caught Kakashi twice, meaning he wasn't able to shunsin away.

Considering 15m is shorter (I think) than the distance Hebi Sasuke almost blitzed Deidara at, and considering Deidara's speed feats are better than Kakuzu's, I wouldn't be surprised if he was able to blitz. But the distance is 30 meters. So a blitz won't occur here.

Nah Deidara was like 10 meters away from Sasuke if I recall. Even still his threads blitzed Kakashi at like 5 meters, so why wouldn't he be able to send them out at Sasuke to halt a blitz?


Yes, he can't just loldash for Kakuzu and hope for the best. Doesn't mean he won't be able to land a blow. Pre cog isn't needed to dodge half of Kakuzu's attacks as none of them are fast except for Gian given Kakashi's performance against them. That's why he can just pick off the masks first. If he closes in on each one in close quarters, it's GG since reacting to Sasuke's Shunshin from less than 15 meters is hard or impossible for Kakuzu let alone the masks. Chidori Eiso right to the mask should be strong enough to obliterate each one, or maybe some Katon used in close quarters so the other masks can't rescue the targeted one.

Once Sasuke showcases his speed Kakuzu obviously is going to move back, or if Sasuke looks busy he'd see no need to. The masks aren't going to be 5 meters in front of him. Especially not after he shows sharp spear. They'll be in the air or a distance away, sure he can close down on one, but what stops the other masks from attacking him from behind while he's trying to KO another?

Did you just say Pre-Cog isn't needed for the fuuton? Kakashi barely made it out of there even WITH it, Hidan was hit first and blown away hence why he had an opportunity to even dodge in the first place, had the wind mask came up from behind Kakashi instead, he would no longer be among the living.

Also, while Sasuke's firing of katons and using raiton on the hearts what will Kakuzu's normal body be doing? :lol he'd be grabbed by threads and yanked out of there. Don't know why you think the hearts will be in like a 5 meter circle around Sasuke btw, the jutsu are large enough to give each other plenty of space not allowing Sasuke to get the chance to take them all out at once.

Summons like Manda and Fodder Snakes used by Oro in Part 1 should be enough to meatshield the elemental attacks if need be. They also let Sasuke heat up the atmosphere with Katon so he can use Kirin. Considering they are literally right next to a forest, meaning Sasuke can set trees on fire with Katon to fuel his attack, pulling it off shouldn't be too hard. Once Kirin is prepped. It's truly GG Kakuzu. Even if Sasuke can't take him out by picking off his masks and then picking off the main body, evade, protecting himself, and setting up Kirin is a good enough strategy to decisively take the match.

Atsugai blows away any attempt at setting up a focal point for temperature of the atmosphere, or at least can blow away the cloud lucky for me its the one heart that can truly fly as well :lol. Then there is the fact that Amertarasu was needed to even use Kirin, hence why it was a jutsu specifically designed to kill Itachi. How many times has Katon been used in the manga, and never has it even indicated an atmosphere change.

When will you stop saying this? If the Wind is not strong enough to get past his wings and crush him, then it won't crush him. It's not going to magically bypass his wings and crush them both along with Sasuke. The jutsu states that it crushes the opponent with extreme air pressure or some stuff like that. Where does that imply that a defense attached to his body won't work? Lol. Gian can't be used while Fuuton is hitting Sasuke, so this scenario of yours isn't ever going to occur. If Kakuzu uses Fuuton, it hits Sasuke and he tanks it. If he follows up with Gian, Sasuke easily evades it or he blocks with Black Chidori.

Jesus christ, do you know what covering yourself with something under air pressure does? It literally crushes that thing onto you stop underrating the jutsu. Then there is the fact that any hole in the defense means its GG Sasuke. (For example, poke the smallest hole in the airplane and the air pressure does the rest) Doubt this jutsu can cover up Sasuke perfectly as the jusu attacks the ground as well (creates a crater) so in the end he dies. He's going to easily evade Gian after getting his wings ****ed up and his body damaged? (If your scenario even worked...which it doesn't)

Proof Black Chidori = Raikiri?

He needs to dodge Atsugai :lol or he's dead.
 

KidGamer65

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So its one of these days.





:lol so being slow enough for Tobi to exclaim that is still a thing.

Not really.


He didn't react the first time, Naruto went for Gaara.

Does that change the fact that he reacted? :lol Naruto jumped, attacked, Deidara reacted. That simple.

Are you good? That is exactly what happened to Kakuzu, he had his eyes on what he thought was the real Naruto the got slammed from behind. Don't know why you're saying clone when Kakashi stated it was substitution Which he didn't use till after Naruto punched him in the face as he clearly has blood running from his mouth that he didn't have before.

Dude....what?

1. Substitution is what he used to switch himself with the clone. Is that not a clone that Naruto hit? Or did you forget what Deidara's clay clones look like. Lmao....

2. Ok. I'll agree that Naruto did get Deidara. Was it a blitz? No. Is Kakuzu's scenario similar? Yes. It's the same actually. Does that change anything? No. Plot had shit to do with anything here. Deidara was hit because he let his guard down as Kakashi so clearly stated the panel before Naruto smacks him in the face.

Not sure if you are trying (still :lol) to find excuses to justify what happened to Kakuzu, but plot is not one of them. Please drop it. It's getting annoying.


A surprise attack based on a clone feint Naruto had planned from the beginning...that is EXACTLY what happened to Kakuzu. Of course its plot, unless you want to tell me how that clone/real Naruto got all the way behind Deidara, that quickly, without him noticing. Hey...wait, that sounds like what happened to Kakuzu.

Hey...wait, you comparing the two scenarios doesn't mean that they occurred because of plot. They occurred because the people getting hit were unable to do shit about it. Not even sure what point you are trying to make here.


The bold is EXACTLY what happened. Deidara let his guard down and got smacked because of it. Deidara isn't a sensor. Him letting his guard down and getting taken by surprise obviously isn't a surprise. Don't try and make it into one. Kakuzu's situation is even worse considering he was on guard the whole entire time. He just got tricked. Deidara got hit because he let his guard down.




Doesn't change the fact at all that he can use Shunsin with the Raikiri, for short bursts which is what that was.

Doesn't change the fact that he didn't, nor does he ever. He runs. That was him running, or should I say about to start running before Kakuzu hit him, not him using Shunshin. Lmao.

Anyways, i'm not going to go through the manga and link every shunsin feat of Kakashi's they've faced different opponents..and there never is really any definite proof that it was one or the other (shunsin/normal speed) except mere debaters conjecture (maybe sometimes it has a sfx) Kakashi did engage Sasuke

How is Kakashi evading a kick from an exhausted Sasuke w/o Sharingan and w/ bad eyesight proof that they are equal in Shunshin? Lmao. This doesn't show any kind of equality, unless you want to assume that Kakashi=Tired blind non Sharingan Sasuke in speed.

Kakuzu's jutsu are fast, faster than C2 arguably which Sasuke could barely avoid, especially when the hearts themselves are nearer to Sasuke than they were Kakashi (Kakuzu wanted his heart) Lets not forget Kakuzu has reacted to a Bijuu attack directly in front of him as well and he's caught Kakashi twice, meaning he wasn't able to shunsin away.

What the hell? Are you kidding me here? And you tell me you don't still overrate this guy. :rolleyes:

1. Fuuton was evaded point blank by someone who isn't as fast as Hebi Sasuke. Hebi Sasuke barely evaded C2 (Note: Hebi Sasuke using CM2>Hebi Sasuke using CM1>Hebi Sasuke using only Sharingan when it comes to speed as curse mark enhances physical abilities)

2. Gian, his fastest attack, was easily intercepted by Kakashi from god knows where. Yet someone faster barely evaded C2. Yet somehow Kakuzu's jutsu are not only near C2's speed, they are "arguably faster". Lmao.

3. Katon was evaded by Team 10 and Kakashi. Guess their speed>Curse Mark enhanced Sasuke considering his jutsu are apparently "faster" than C2.

Note that all these evasions occurred at a distance smaller than what was between . Let's not even throw in the fact that Sasuke w/o the Curse Mark was fast enough to outright evade C2 regardless. The only reason he didn't carelessly evade the others is because of Deidara's annoying land mines. So "barely evaded" isn't even an accurate statement man.

Kakuzu reacted to an attack from a Jin transformed into her Bijuu. A Jin that didn't have full control. Any proof that it's faster than Sasuke's attacks or his Shunshin? He caught Kakashi once with a surprise attack, and another time when they were like, 2 meters away from each other.



Nah Deidara was like 10 meters away from Sasuke if I recall. Even still his threads blitzed Kakashi at like 5 meters, so why wouldn't he be able to send them out at Sasuke to halt a blitz?




Once Sasuke showcases his speed Kakuzu obviously is going to move back, or if Sasuke looks busy he'd see no need to. The masks aren't going to be 5 meters in front of him. Especially not after he shows sharp spear. They'll be in the air or a distance away, sure he can close down on one, but what stops the other masks from attacking him from behind while he's trying to KO another?

Let's see.

-Summons to pressure the masks. Summons to tank the masks attacks. Specifically Manda. The only thing that might hurt Manda is Gian, but it won't kill him by any means.

-The air? His masks can't fly. Never have shown the ability to actually fly. If they are a distance away, then all he needs to do is close in on them. I can guarantee that they won't take him out before he can hit the mask he's targeting considering the masks lack the proper speed to react to Sasuke in close quarters let alone intercept his attacks.

Did you just say Pre-Cog isn't needed for the fuuton? Kakashi barely made it out of there even WITH it, Hidan was hit first and blown away hence why he had an opportunity to even dodge in the first place, had the wind mask came up from behind Kakashi instead, he would no longer be among the living.

Pre cog was needed because Kakashi was pushed back by Hidan, distracted by him, and then attacked from point blank by the Fuuton. Kakuzu doesn't have Hidan to pressure Sasuke like he did to Kakashi, and for the love of God don't say that the masks will take his place. They don't have the speed to do anything like that.



Also, while Sasuke's firing of katons and using raiton on the hearts what will Kakuzu's normal body be doing? :lol he'd be grabbed by threads and yanked out of there. Don't know why you think the hearts will be in like a 5 meter circle around Sasuke btw, the jutsu are large enough to give each other plenty of space not allowing Sasuke to get the chance to take them all out at once.

Never said they would. You only assumed that they would because I said he uses Chidori Eiso (which extends 5 meters) to take them out, but all he needs to do is close in on them. It only depends on how close they are to Kakuzu. If they aren't close, then this yank him with the threads strategy won't work. He'd have enough time to kill the mask he's targeting, and then either cut apart his threads with Chidori Eiso or glide to safety using his wings.

Whoever said he'd take out all at once? Lmao.


Atsugai blows away any attempt at setting up a focal point for temperature of the atmosphere

Please explain to me how this makes any sense? Atsugai isn't going to stop Katon from heating up the atmosphere unless it stops the Katon, unless that is what you were saying...but if Sasuke fires it out of range, Atsugai can't do anything. I hope you aren't saying using Atsugai is going to somehow stop the atmosphere from heating up when Katon is released into it.


or at least can blow away the cloud lucky for me its the one heart that can truly fly as well :lol.


.............................

So Kakuzu's mask is going to fly up into the goddamn stratosphere and use his Atsugai to blow away thunder clouds that can make a giant dragon that flattens Mountains? Not sure what is more wrong with this statement. The fact that his mask isn't fast enough to do so before Sasuke lights Kakuzu's ass up with Kirin, the fact that Atsugai being strong enough to blow away all the clouds is supported by nothing, or the fact that you refer to it as "cloud" when there are multiple clouds.




Then there is the fact that Amertarasu was needed to even use Kirin, hence why it was a jutsu specifically designed to kill Itachi
.

What in the world are you talking about? There is a forest right next to them. Katon can be used to set a bunch of those trees on fire which provides even more fuel for Kirin. Not to mention that only means Sasuke ends up using a weaker version of Kirin since Katon isn't as hot as Amaterasu, but a weaker version isn't needed to kill Kakuzu so that doesn't even matter.

How many times has Katon been used in the manga, and never has it even indicated an atmosphere change.


How many times have you seen someone fire their Katon into the atmosphere besides Sasuke?

ZERO.

Nuff said. Point null.

Jesus christ, do you know what covering yourself with something under air pressure does? It literally crushes that thing onto you stop underrating the jutsu. Then there is the fact that any hole in the defense means its GG Sasuke. (For example, poke the smallest hole in the airplane and the air pressure does the rest) Doubt this jutsu can cover up Sasuke perfectly as the jusu attacks the ground as well (creates a crater) so in the end he dies. He's going to easily evade Gian after getting his wings ****ed up and his body damaged? (If your scenario even worked...which it doesn't)

IF THE THING IS ****ING STRONG ENOUGH TO DAMAGE THE THING COVERING YOU IN THE FIRST ****ING PLACE.
Lmao. Stop wanking this dude's jutsu. It is a Fuuton with condensed air pressure that crushes defenses. If the defense is strong enough, you tank. If it's not. You get crushed. Stop comparing ****ing atsugai to what happens in a goddamn airplane when they are not the same thing. The use of the word "air pressure" isn't going to make it the same thing.

Atsugai isn't some magic trump card that crushes all defenses just because the DB mentions "air pressure". Smh.

C2 is stronger than Atsugai by feats. Sasuke took C2 and only lost a wing. Atsugai doesn't do anything significant nor will his body get damaged.

And please show me where Atsugai ever made a crater.

Proof Black Chidori = Raikiri?

It's powered by Oro's Senjutsu Chakra and by Sasuke's chakra which is more powerful than Kakashi's at any rate. That's reason enough for me to believe it's as strong as Raikiri at the very least.
 

Zexion~

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Not really.




Does that change the fact that he reacted? :lol Naruto jumped, attacked, Deidara reacted. That simple.



Dude....what?

1. Substitution is what he used to switch himself with the clone. Is that not a clone that Naruto hit? Or did you forget what Deidara's clay clones look like. Lmao....

2. Ok. I'll agree that Naruto did get Deidara. Was it a blitz? No. Is Kakuzu's scenario similar? Yes. It's the same actually. Does that change anything? No. Plot had shit to do with anything here. Deidara was hit because he let his guard down as Kakashi so clearly stated the panel before Naruto smacks him in the face.

Not sure if you are trying (still :lol) to find excuses to justify what happened to Kakuzu, but plot is not one of them. Please drop it. It's getting annoying.




Hey...wait, you comparing the two scenarios doesn't mean that they occurred because of plot. They occurred because the people getting hit were unable to do shit about it. Not even sure what point you are trying to make here.


The bold is EXACTLY what happened. Deidara let his guard down and got smacked because of it. Deidara isn't a sensor. Him letting his guard down and getting taken by surprise obviously isn't a surprise. Don't try and make it into one. Kakuzu's situation is even worse considering he was on guard the whole entire time. He just got tricked. Deidara got hit because he let his guard down.






Doesn't change the fact that he didn't, nor does he ever. He runs. That was him running, or should I say about to start running before Kakuzu hit him, not him using Shunshin. Lmao.



How is Kakashi evading a kick from an exhausted Sasuke w/o Sharingan and w/ bad eyesight proof that they are equal in Shunshin? Lmao. This doesn't show any kind of equality, unless you want to assume that Kakashi=Tired blind non Sharingan Sasuke in speed.



What the hell? Are you kidding me here? And you tell me you don't still overrate this guy. :rolleyes:

1. Fuuton was evaded point blank by someone who isn't as fast as Hebi Sasuke. Hebi Sasuke barely evaded C2 (Note: Hebi Sasuke using CM2>Hebi Sasuke using CM1>Hebi Sasuke using only Sharingan when it comes to speed as curse mark enhances physical abilities)

2. Gian, his fastest attack, was easily intercepted by Kakashi from god knows where. Yet someone faster barely evaded C2. Yet somehow Kakuzu's jutsu are not only near C2's speed, they are "arguably faster". Lmao.

3. Katon was evaded by Team 10 and Kakashi. Guess their speed>Curse Mark enhanced Sasuke considering his jutsu are apparently "faster" than C2.

Note that all these evasions occurred at a distance smaller than what was between . Let's not even throw in the fact that Sasuke w/o the Curse Mark was fast enough to outright evade C2 regardless. The only reason he didn't carelessly evade the others is because of Deidara's annoying land mines. So "barely evaded" isn't even an accurate statement man.

Kakuzu reacted to an attack from a Jin transformed into her Bijuu. A Jin that didn't have full control. Any proof that it's faster than Sasuke's attacks or his Shunshin? He caught Kakashi once with a surprise attack, and another time when they were like, 2 meters away from each other.










Let's see.

-Summons to pressure the masks. Summons to tank the masks attacks. Specifically Manda. The only thing that might hurt Manda is Gian, but it won't kill him by any means.

-The air? His masks can't fly. Never have shown the ability to actually fly. If they are a distance away, then all he needs to do is close in on them. I can guarantee that they won't take him out before he can hit the mask he's targeting considering the masks lack the proper speed to react to Sasuke in close quarters let alone intercept his attacks.



Pre cog was needed because Kakashi was pushed back by Hidan, distracted by him, and then attacked from point blank by the Fuuton. Kakuzu doesn't have Hidan to pressure Sasuke like he did to Kakashi, and for the love of God don't say that the masks will take his place. They don't have the speed to do anything like that.





Never said they would. You only assumed that they would because I said he uses Chidori Eiso (which extends 5 meters) to take them out, but all he needs to do is close in on them. It only depends on how close they are to Kakuzu. If they aren't close, then this yank him with the threads strategy won't work. He'd have enough time to kill the mask he's targeting, and then either cut apart his threads with Chidori Eiso or glide to safety using his wings.

Whoever said he'd take out all at once? Lmao.




Please explain to me how this makes any sense? Atsugai isn't going to stop Katon from heating up the atmosphere unless it stops the Katon, unless that is what you were saying...but if Sasuke fires it out of range, Atsugai can't do anything. I hope you aren't saying using Atsugai is going to somehow stop the atmosphere from heating up when Katon is released into it.





.............................

So Kakuzu's mask is going to fly up into the goddamn stratosphere and use his Atsugai to blow away thunder clouds that can make a giant dragon that flattens Mountains? Not sure what is more wrong with this statement. The fact that his mask isn't fast enough to do so before Sasuke lights Kakuzu's ass up with Kirin, the fact that Atsugai being strong enough to blow away all the clouds is supported by nothing, or the fact that you refer to it as "cloud" when there are multiple clouds.




.

What in the world are you talking about? There is a forest right next to them. Katon can be used to set a bunch of those trees on fire which provides even more fuel for Kirin. Not to mention that only means Sasuke ends up using a weaker version of Kirin since Katon isn't as hot as Amaterasu, but a weaker version isn't needed to kill Kakuzu so that doesn't even matter.




How many times have you seen someone fire their Katon into the atmosphere besides Sasuke?

ZERO.

Nuff said. Point null.



IF THE THING IS ****ING STRONG ENOUGH TO DAMAGE THE THING COVERING YOU IN THE FIRST ****ING PLACE.
Lmao. Stop wanking this dude's jutsu. It is a Fuuton with condensed air pressure that crushes defenses. If the defense is strong enough, you tank. If it's not. You get crushed. Stop comparing ****ing atsugai to what happens in a goddamn airplane when they are not the same thing. The use of the word "air pressure" isn't going to make it the same thing.

Atsugai isn't some magic trump card that crushes all defenses just because the DB mentions "air pressure". Smh.

C2 is stronger than Atsugai by feats. Sasuke took C2 and only lost a wing. Atsugai doesn't do anything significant nor will his body get damaged.

And please show me where Atsugai ever made a crater.



It's powered by Oro's Senjutsu Chakra and by Sasuke's chakra which is more powerful than Kakashi's at any rate. That's reason enough for me to believe it's as strong as Raikiri at the very least.

I'll read and counter later, two threads of this magnitude is too much, you don't have to reply to what I say but i'm still going to say it :lol
 
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