Love the lancer .. worship the lancer !

[iNotorious]

Eh, that isn't particulary that strong of an ability in Nasuverse. Still pretty useful though. Kind of like the regenerative abilities of Dead Apostles.

I doubt that we will see a clash between characters of different vn? sorta say. Shirou + Avalon + UBW = hax! nerf please.

 

[Worm]

Nah. Not really a high chance we'll see any kind of battles between Fate-Tsuki or KnK characters. Well, we kind of did in Fate/Extra, if that counts. Nasu has other stories he has to focus on such as Tsukihime Remake, Tsukihime 2, Mahoyo 2 and Mahoyo 3.

 

[Kagustuchi]

It's impossible to beat an omnipotent, if it's possible to beat them then they weren't omnipotent to begin with.

 

[iNotorious]

Nah. Not really a high chance we'll see any kind of battles between Fate-Tsuki or KnK characters. Well, we kind of did in Fate/Extra, if that counts. Nasu has other stories he has to focus on such as Tsukihime Remake, Tsukihime 2, Mahoyo 2 and Mahoyo 3.

Saber got this.

Can saber use avalon or it's just for masters only?

 

[Worm]

It's impossible to beat an omnipotent, if it's possible to beat them then they weren't omnipotent to begin with.

As long as Omnipotence is a concept, Shiki can see it's death and kill that concept. Said being would cease to be omnipotent if the concept of omnipotence was removed from existence. The concept of air, reality, etc. all have a flaw - a ''death'' - that will completely remove the concept from it's very existence to begin with as soon as Shiki ''kills'' it. The whole law and concept that decides said being is omnipotent would become absolutely non-existant.

Technically, Shiki can see the death of absolutely any concept that exists so whether she could kill the concept of Omnipotence is highly debatable. Although, she can kill beings such as Gods or anything of the like for sure as it was confirmed by her.

Can saber use avalon or it's just for masters only?

No. She needs Shirou to Project it for her. Unless we are talking about pure heroic spirit Arturia with an Avalon that is working as it did in life instead of becoming an unsable Noble Phantasm.

 

[Kagustuchi]

As long as Omnipotence is a concept, Shiki can see it's death and kill that concept. Said being would cease to be omnipotent if the concept of omnipotence was removed from existence. The concept of air, reality, etc. all have a flaw - a ''death'' - that will completely remove the concept from it's very existence to begin with as soon as Shiki ''kills'' it. The whole law and concept that decides said being is omnipotent would become absolutely non-existant.

Technically, Shiki can see the death of absolutely any concept that exists so whether she could kill the concept of Omnipotence is highly debatable. Although, she can kill beings such as Gods or anything of the like for sure as it was confirmed by her.



No. She needs Shirou to Project it for her. Unless we are talking about pure heroic spirit Arturia with an Avalon that is working as it did in life instead of becoming an unsable Noble Phantasm.

And being omnipotent means they could do the exact same thing

 

[Worm]

And being omnipotent means they could do the exact same thing

Which leads us to the point that two users of Mystic Eyes of Death Perception cannot exist in the same universe and as long as Shiki exists, no one else can have her eyes regardless of the fact that they are omnipotent or not. Which means said being would have to ''bend'' the laws of the universe in order to be able to use the same eyes as her. However, Shiki would be able to ''kill'' such a concept of bending the laws.

It leads us to the point that Shiki could either kill it due to the laws of the universe which an omnipotent being would have to bend, depending if it's omnipotence is working inside the range of the laws of universe or if it is not, in which case, it ends up in a stalemate as neither can kill the other.

 

[Kagustuchi]

Which leads us to the point that two users of Mystic Eyes of Death Perception cannot exist in the same universe and as long as Shiki exists, no one else can have her eyes regardless of the fact that they are omnipotent or not. Which means said being would have to ''bend'' the laws of the universe in order to be able to use the same eyes as her. However, Shiki would be able to ''kill'' such a concept of bending the laws.

It leads us to the point that Shiki could either kill it due to the laws of the universe which an omnipotent being would have to bend, depending if it's omnipotence is working inside the range of the laws of universe or if it is not, in which case, it ends up in a stalemate as neither can kill the other.

Which leads us to the fact that none of that matters in the face of an omnipotenet. Being omnipotent means you can do anything and everything, nothing is beyond you.

Omnipotent could rob him of his ability or make it so that it doesn't work on them just by thinking it. There's no arguing around beating an omnipotent, as it's literally impossible. For Shiki to even stalemate him he would have to be omnipotent as well, if he's not then he loses.

 

[Shura]

Cu solos.

 

[LitzSabr]

Shiki defeating an omnipotent is kinda stretching it even if she said it. An omnipotent can just make it so that the concept can't be killed or just any other counter one can think of. Shiki wants to kill the concept but just can't bring herself to, yeah that can be done too. It doesn't matter if the solution is logical or illogical, what matters is that it will be done.

 

[Worm]

Which leads us to the fact that none of that matters in the face of an omnipotenet. Being omnipotent means you can do anything and everything, nothing is beyond you.

Omnipotent could rob him of his ability or make it so that it doesn't work on them just by thinking it. There's no arguing around beating an omnipotent, as it's literally impossible. For Shiki to even stalemate him he would have to be omnipotent as well, if he's not then he loses.

Shiki defeating an omnipotent is kinda stretching it even if she said it. An omnipotent can just make it so that the concept can't be killed or just any other counter one can think of. Shiki wants to kill the concept but just can't bring herself to, yeah that can be done too. It doesn't matter if the solution is logical or illogical, what matters is that it will be done.

Which leads us to the point that such a concept of thought of removing her abilities is completely ''killable'' by her abilities for it's activation to even take place. It would end up in Shiki constantly killing that concept of ''this concept can't be killed'' before it could even take any effect on her while the omnipotent being would constantly be creating that concept, which leads us to the point that neither would be able to kill the other. The whole concept of ''impossibility of killing an omnipotent'' is completely killable by her, but would get stalemated by the omnipotent trying to remove her abilities.

Either way, whether Shiki manages to beat an omnipotent in a fight or not is completely irrelevant to what I or Shiki herself said. I said she is capable of killing an omnipotent being and she is. Shiki CAN kill an omnipotent being, but that doesn't translate to the fact that she WILL do so in a fight. The ability to kill it is there. Does not mean it will become reality though.

 

[LitzSabr]

Omnipotent is a GOD. It doesn't matter if you try to kill the concept of a concept not being killed. If its power of making a concept unkillable can be overtaken by shiki's ailities, then the being isn't an omnipotent.
But that would make shiki's omnipotent's concept kill pointless in the place. But if the being Is actually one, then his powers or will can't be taken down.

But tbh, I know that shiki's ability should work, and maybe I too can support that notion on places just to hype ma girl xd. But like I said, if the will of an omnipotent being is taken down, then take being simply isn't one.

 

[Worm]

Omnipotent is a GOD. It doesn't matter if you try to kill the concept of a concept not being killed. If its power of making a concept unkillable can be overtaken by shiki's ailities, then the being isn't an omnipotent.
But that would make shiki's omnipotent's concept kill pointless in the place. But if the being Is actually one, then his powers or will can't be taken down.

But tbh, I know that shiki's ability should work, and maybe I too can support that notion on places just to hype ma girl xd. But like I said, if the will of an omnipotent being is taken down, then take being simply isn't one.

The whole concept of ''impossibility'' can be killed. The being ceases to be omnipotent when Shiki kills that ''concept''. All the ''it's will or power cannot be taken down'' laws and concepts are killable.

The thing is, it would literally end up in Shiki constantly ''killing'' the concept of impossibility and omnipotence, but the omnipotent being would also constantly make itself impossible to be killed. It's just running in circles.

Like I said, whether Shiki can beat an omnipotent being or not isn't the point. She most likely can't. But the whole possibility that she can kill the concept of omnipotence exists, just doesn't mean she'll be able to actually bring such a possibility into reality. Shiki is right when she says she can kill even God, just doesn't mean she would be able to do so in a fight.

 

[LitzSabr]

Them running in circles won't be happening in a real fight since an omnipotent would never allow that, neither she can defeat an omnipotent. It would just end the concept of concepts from humanity. Thats all true, but even when it comes to just killing the concept of it so as to defeat it, its not possible. Simply because of the reason that if that was, then just what kind of an omnipotent was that being? It goes against the definition, that it was All mighty. It that concept is killed essentially killing it, then the being simply wasn't a supreme one.

 

[Worm]

A paradox then. As the whole definition of it being all mighty is killable. See what I mean? It's running in circles. It's impossible to kill an omnipotent being because it's all mighty, but Shiki can kill that concept of impossibility and definition of all mighty, but the being is unkillable because it's all mighty, but Shiki can kill that concept, but the being is unkillable because.... <- Pretty much what happens.

Shiki's ability completely kills or eliminates the definition you have of an omnipotent being. The whole ''it wouldn't be omnipotent if it can be beaten'' law and definition you hold is killable so if such a law was killed, the being remains omnipotent even if it was killed because your law of ''if it is killed, then it isn't omnipotent'' has no existence anymore. Shiki can alter the rules and laws of the universe after all or recreate everything.

Edit: Just found out [] is an omnipotent being. Whelp, there it is. [] Shiki is omnipotent. Didn't know this 'till now, lol.

 

[LitzSabr]

Thats what I'm saying, if that definition is killable, then the being is not an omnipotent. All leads to this end. If the law of 'it wouldn't omnipotent if it can be beaten' doesn't exist under an omnipotent's will, then that again leads to the conclusion that it wasn't an omnipotent to begin with. I see the paradox here and I doubt ut would get solved. But the thing is, shiki can alter the rules of a universe, and an omnipotent wouldn't give a **** about that universe.

C'mon now, Shiki isn't an omnipotent. Edit: Maybe... now if I think about that. There are limitations but she can get rid of that. So its difficult to say.

 

[Worm]

Thats what I'm saying, if that definition is killable, then the being is not an omnipotent. All leads to this end. If the law of 'it wouldn't omnipotent if it can be beaten' doesn't exist under an omnipotent's will, then that again leads to the conclusion that it wasn't an omnipotent to begin with. I see the paradox here and I doubt ut would get solved. But the thing is, shiki can alter the rules of a universe, and an omnipotent wouldn't give a **** about that universe.

C'mon now, Shiki isn't an omnipotent. Lets see, can she bring back a person from death who has already gone to the origin?

Ryougi Shiki? No. Ryougi Shiki is human. Her will means nothing. [] Shiki that fills in the space between Shiki and SHIKI? Yes. It's Nasuverse's omnipotent being. She or rather it can alter the whole laws, definitions, concepts of death, events, etc. Literally everything. It is an actual omnipotent being or rather THE omnipotent being. It can wipe out everything from existence and it can create everything into existence. It is capable of doing absolutely anything.

 

[LitzSabr]

Don't tell me that someone on mal was CP? It still wouldn't be a stalemate even if shiki is taken as an omnipotent because might simply get blitzed, even before thinking. But pretty much a stalemate then if we take it away. But I need to think over her being an actual omnipotent.
And I know that she can possibly alter stuff upto universal level but that still doesn't qualify as being an omnipotent.
Think about it,
Do you think shiki can construct universes, multiple ones of them to add on? With the definition of them remaining the same as it is.

 

[Worm]

Don't tell me that someone on mal was CP? It still wouldn't be a stalemate even if shiki is taken as an omnipotent because might simply get blitzed, even before thinking. But pretty much a stalemate then if we take it away. But I need to think over her being an actual omnipotent.
And I know that she can possibly alter stuff upto universal level but that still doesn't qualify as being an omnipotent.
Think about it,
Do you think shiki can construct universes, multiple ones of them to add on? With the definition of them remaining the same as it is.

Not Fai this time. It was Steve, aka Insertanamehere. Although, Fai has the most expansive knowledge on the Nasuverse.

And yes, [] isn't human. It can recreate the whole universe and not just once. The whole blitzing doesn't really apply to [] as it doesn't have these speed limitations or anything, it is omnipotent in a literal sense. [] is fully connected to Akasha which made it omnipotent or so. It's confirmed in the series at some point though which I missed due to not paying attention at the time, I suppose so this isn't even remotely opinionated.

 

[LitzSabr]

Even with that, guy still gets biased quite sometimes. Well thats only natural though.
If thats the case, then its a stalemate. The battle won't go anywhere. Well I myself am on the sixth part of KnK in the light novel, so that detail about the void even I don't know. I did read about shiki possibly have a universal effect but really if This is the case... oh boy, my Shiki wank. I'll let you know if there was any technicality though (you haven't gotten around to read the novel yet right?).