why naruto uses "borrowed power" and sasuke does not

[To Whatever]

Actually they have a link where Kuramas chakra and Narutos is link so Kurama just constantly supplies it...It's the same as borrowing when you don't own it.

Post KCM. That's no longer the case.

1. After winning against Kurama and having a stronger seal. Naruto has more dominance over Kurama than before. He can suppress him at will if need be he can also enter the seal without succumbing to Kurama's influence.

Exhibit A: Chapter: 499 "A New Seal"

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Exhibit B: Chapter 538 "Cross-Examination"

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Note Kurama's own words on the situation: Chapter: 539 "A Bloody Night"

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Note Kurama's reaction to Naruto: Chapter 538: "Cross-Examination"

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

​

2. Their chakra is no longer linked which is good since his old seal's setup was unstable and dangerous

You must be registered for see images

Chapter: 499 "A New Seal"

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

3. Naruto's a nice guy. He won't force Kurama via tori seals or bleed him dry of chakra even though he can. although he admittedly did very early on when he received KCM.















4. Because of #3 rather than tearing chakra from someone he gained an incredibly strong partner. One that respects his own power and his resolve. One that'll answer his call and find along side him.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

P.S:

Keep in mind that Kurama is basically his summon as well as his life-long partner.

Kurama can take control of the Avatar or Naruto himself: Chapter 697 "The secret of space-time ninjutsu"​

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

​

 

[Chaosmark101]

Fighting your way up to being the best (whatever means necessary) > Borrowing/being backpacked all the way to the best

What??? Who was Sasuke "fighting" to "be the very best there ever was?" This isn't Pokemon. This is is Naruto. Sasukes only goals in Shippuden were.
1.Kill Itachi,
2. Destroy Konoha
3. Kill Naruto/Revolution
Where was he trying to the best :lol. & he was still backpacked by Naruto (who gave him a kyuubi cloak) who also backpacked, & Juugo who gave him senjutsu chakra too hurt JJ Obito.

When Itachi resupplies Sasukes reserves and aids him in battle with pep talk n strategies get back to me. Oh Itachi is dead I forgot....

Still doesn't change the fact that it's borrowed power which doesn't belong to Sasuke. I'm not saying Kurama's power belongs to Naruto either. Fact of the matter is, is that they're both borrowed and crying about the quality of one borrowed power over the other isn't relevant to the title of this thread.

He had to train his MS skill first, fight 5 Kages with 0 intel (> Pain),

:lol, Greater than Pain? The guy with Rikoudo Sennins eye's? HELL NO. Pain 1 shots each of the Gokage. None could live CST, or CT for that matter. Nice try.Also KCM Naruto fought 6 jin paths & bijuus. With no intelBijuu's >>> Kages

and he had to train his Sharingan for +3years before unlocking MS, in contrast Naruto was traveling the world with his teacher stalking women.

Who says you have to train Sharingan? You have scans of that?
Pretty much any ninja who gets Precog, ability to copy ninjutsu,taijutsu,genjutsu, cheat death, mind control, & determine someone's destiny is bound to be stronger than the average bear. Obito went from being useless to, on par/ > Kakashi when he awoke his sharingan.

Naruto not learning much during the timeskip is one of the reasons I couldn't get into NS years ago. It bothered me that he left with Jiraiya with alot of potential and only showed up with odama rasengan. Smh.

Even though Itachi wouldn't kill him Sasuke still would've suffered fatal wounds if he didn't take the fight seriously (i.e : Amaterasu), Pain was nerfed than Itachi btw.

No he wouldn't have, If Itachi fought with intent to kill. Sasuke would have been burned by Ama, or Sealed by Totsuka blade. Literally nothing was stopping him from going V4 Susanoo & ending it from the beginning. Btw

You must be registered for see links

This was before Sasuke unlocked/discovered Enton: Kagutsuchi btw. Also your point about Pain is moot because,
1. Both SM Naruto & Hebi Sasuke faced opponents who were on a whole other level than they were. (Pain & Itachi respectively.)
2. Pain > Itachi.

And it was a big deal for Sasuke to train under Orochimaru because having his body taken would have meant all his efforts were for nothing, he grew a pair to reach his ambitions, Naruto needed support for crying over his friend.

Already addressed in my last post to you.

 

[SpoilerAlerts]

But he didn't take it kurama lent his power to use as needed.

 

[To Whatever]

But he didn't take it kurama lent his power to use as needed.

He didn't have to take it. Kurama respects him and because of that he's earned the respect of the 8 other bijuu.

 

[SenseiSama]

Lol, Greater than Pain? The guy with Rikoudo Sennins eye's? HELL NO. Pain 1 shots each of the Gokage. None could live CST, or CT for that matter. Nice try.Also KCM Naruto fought 6 jin paths & bijuus. With no intelBijuu's >>> Kages

Naruto fought 6 jins but he would have lost in less than 10min if it wasn't for Gai and Kakashi. Sasuke would have defended against the jinchuuriki with Susanoo and he can genjutsu the bijuu. Kages withstood Madara who is >>>> Nagato, and Naruto had intel over Pain.

Who says you have to train Sharingan? You have scans of that?
Pretty much any ninja who gets Precog, ability to copy ninjutsu,taijutsu,genjutsu, cheat death, mind control, & determine someone's destiny is bound to be stronger than the average bear. Obito went from being useless to, on par/ > Kakashi when he awoke his sharingan.

Nope it's like saying Nagato didn't need to train to use his Rinnegan, it's obvious dojutsu needs training, Neji, Sasuke and Itachi were all workaholics in addition to having talent hence why their power-ups were beyond anyone's level.

Naruto not learning much during the timeskip is one of the reasons I couldn't get into NS years ago. It bothered me that he left with Jiraiya with alot of potential and only showed up with odama rasengan. Smh.

Agreed, and unfortunately it was after that moment I could no longer take Naruto's talents seriously

 

[adeshina365]

GOAT thread

 

[Chaosmark101]

Naruto fought 6 jins but he would have lost in less than 10min if it wasn't for Gai and Kakashi. Sasuke would have defended against the jinchuuriki with Susanoo and he can genjutsu the bijuu. Kages withstood Madara who is >>>> Nagato, and Naruto had intel over Pain.

:lol his V4 Susanoo wouldn't have protected him from those jins, especially not after having gone BM. The only reason why Kakashi & Guy fought them was because Bee Negged them when he went BM. Gai & Kakashi were saved by BM Naruto who deflected 5 TBB's & Then countered their combined bijuu dama.

Proof Sasuke would be able to put them under genjutsu when the Jins were dead? They were paths.

Nope it's like saying Nagato didn't need to train to use his Rinnegan, it's obvious dojutsu needs training, Neji, Sasuke and Itachi were all workaholics in addition to having talent hence why their power-ups were beyond anyone's level.

That's why I didn't say Doujutsu, I said just Sharingan.

Also Sasuke is a quick learner/ naturally talented, as was Indra. Neji most likely worked much harder than Sasuke since he wanted to prove his superiority to the main branch. Sasuke only trained to surpass Naruto & Itachi.

Agreed, and unfortunately it was after that moment I could no longer take Naruto's talents seriously

I always loved Naruto. He was a Boss when he defeated Gaara. I honestly didn't care for shippuden at the time it was shown here in America, since I felt it got to serious.(death of gaara) But when I heard my friends say Naruto was dying by the hands of Madara. (I stopped following after Pain arc)

I felt like I had to start reading to support him, I couldn't believe my favorite shinobi who dreamed of being hokage was about to die, from tailed beast extraction.

This was a year ago. Now I'm caught up on pretty much everything. & It made me have a newfound respect for all Naruto has done for NV during the war.

Reading from the wind training arc. Made me develop an admiration for Sasukes character too, since he's pretty cool.

 

[Merkel]

Naruto and Sasuke's powers are both taken. Naruto doesn't return the chakra he uses in battle from Kurama and obviously, Sasuke doesn't return his brother's eyes.

 

[UzumakiRyu]

Actually they have a link where Kuramas chakra and Narutos is link so Kurama just constantly supplies it...It's the same as borrowing when you don't own it.

That makes no sense that link you talk about works only one way to Naruto, Kurama's chakra through the seal is slowly fused with Naruto's own chakra there is no back and forth.

take and use (something belonging to someone else) with the intention of returning it.

 

[Dockinabix]

He had to train his MS skill first,[...]and he had to train his Sharingan for +3years before unlocking MS.

False. You are a lying liar who lies, and a big one.

He didn't trained for MS, stop saying BS. He trained his sharingan for becoming strong enough to fight Itachi. Itachi himself said that sasuke didn't had MS when they meet for the fight ( you don't have the same eyes as me stuff), and sasuke responded he didn't need it to kill him.

MS has fallen by plot into him. Show me a single panel stating he trained for MS or EMS He didn't. When he unlocked MS, he went to Bee, got his ass kicked and got his life saved by amaterasu awakening plot. After that, no training said/shown and then 5 kage summit where he display some masteries of techs he never trained to obtain.

After leaving Oro, he never trained, never , all power ups were given to him, he didn't trained for them.

in contrast Naruto was traveling the world with his teacher stalking women

It's not because Jiraiya made his pupil more wiser than you fav, that you have to spit this kind of weak argumentory.

Even though Itachi wouldn't kill him Sasuke still would've suffered fatal wounds if he didn't take the fight seriously (i.e : Amaterasu), Pain was nerfed than Itachi btw.

Itachi was dying/pein got his secret revealed.
Itachi was weaken because he was ill, otherwise sasuke would never be able to "win".( Stated by zetsu) Even if he was in full health, Itachi was as strong as 3 kakashi level jounin.
Pein by himself destroyed a whole village, wasn't weaken by any illness and still got defeated. He was the "boss" of akatsuki, no one exept tobi would have been able to kill him.

So stop this wanking, it just show how disgusting your fetishes are.

And it was a big deal for Sasuke to train under Orochimaru because having his body taken would have meant all his efforts were for nothing, he grew a pair to reach his ambitions, Naruto needed support for crying over his friend.

Growing a pair + sasuke are incompatible in part 2. ( In part one, he did have one when he was a real workaholic)

Going the easy way by following someone who enhanced him by drugs, and borderline stuff don't make you strong. It's false strengh. Because against someone with better inner strengh you fall like a card castle. orochimaru made his body stronger but his mind got way more weak. That's why tobi manipulated him so easily.

It's like Ryu vs Minoru fight in KKM. Ryu got stronger by borderline teachings with revenge for objective without making is core strong, while Minoru got stronger his core and then his body.

 

[SenseiSama]

That makes no sense that link you talk about works only one way to Naruto, Kurama's chakra through the seal is slowly fused with Naruto's own chakra there is no back and forth.

take and use (something belonging to someone else) with the intention of returning it.

BM = Kurama's chakra

Susanoo = Sasuke's chakra

 

[UzumakiRyu]

BM = Kurama's chakra

Susanoo = Sasuke's chakra

Did you even read what I said before posting this? The Chakra Kurama gives Naruto is never returned to Kurama so isn't being borrowed jeez please learn to read before posting.

 

[xxSAGExx]

How is it borrow when Naruto doesn't return it? He is "given" power which he uses and the Bijuus create more chakra. Borrowed power would be Hagoromo's seals which was returned to him.

Let's list given/borrowed/taken power:

Naruto: Yang Kurama (given. Let's him go KM/BM), SM (learned but people say Naruto takes natural energy), Yin Kurama (given after he lost Yang Kurama), 8 Bijuus chakra (given at different times but didn't access their power until he had all 9 so count that as 1), Hagoromo's Yang chakra (Given. RM), Hagoromo's sun seal (borrowed), Full Kurama (not sure what to list this as, Yang Kurama decided to go back to Naruto so given?), and Hashirama cells (given.arm).

Sasuke: CM (Given), Pill (given. Boost base stats and gave access to CM lvl 2), drugs or forbidden jutsus (given. Tsunade and Samura said Sasuke's growth rate wasn't normal so believed Orochimaru used one of the two I mentioned; he even mentioned experimenting on Sasuke, said it during the war), Orochimaru white snake powers (taken. Sasuke took it by sealing Oro), MS (Given. Itachi planned to die by Sasuke's hand, had he not then Sasuke wouldn't have MS unless he killed someone close to him or at least see them die), EMS (given/taken. Itachi told Sasuke about EMS so he would take his eyes which Sasuke eventually did. Had Itachi not plan any of this Sasuke wouldn't have them unless Obito found them and gave them to Sasuke), Kurama chakra (given. Naruto gave him chakra during the fight with Juubito), Hashirama chakra and a jutsus (given. Count as 1 since he got them at the same time), Hashirama cells (given), and Hagoromo's Yin chakra (given. Rinnegan), and Hagoromo moon seal (borrowed.).

 

[Romy9]

I'd just like to add that many people don't exactly understand the capabalities which a person who is called a Jin has. You have to have certain qualities and attributes to host a Bijuu, specially Kurama. It's not that he "borrowed" power. It's that he has an ability or capacity to use it unlike anyone else in NV. That's why only the Uzumaki were the containers. Sasuke fans obviously deliberately negate this and use the term "borrow" to help their argument.

Logically speaking, Itachi's eyes to Sasuke are a sort of a handout to further the point of Kishimoto's story, just like Kurama is to Naruto. Both parties are actually the same in this whole scenario. This debate is pointless.

 

[UzumakiRyu]

I'd just like to add that many people don't exactly understand the capabalities which a person who is called a Jin has. You have to have certain qualities and attributes to host a Bijuu, specially Kurama. It's not that he "borrowed" power. It's that he has an ability or capacity to use it unlike anyone else in NV. That's why only the Uzumaki were the containers. Sasuke fans obviously deliberately negate this and use the term "borrow" to help their argument.

Logically speaking, Itachi's eyes to Sasuke are a sort of a handout to further the point of Kishimoto's story, just like Kurama is to Naruto. Both parties are actually the same in this whole scenario. This debate is pointless.

Lol yea they use borrow so often yet always use it in the wrong context, always but that's fan logic for you.

 

[Romy9]

Lol yea they use borrow so often yet always use it in the wrong context, always but that's fan logic for you.

It's all about how you look at it. Sadly, most "fans" are just looking to cut the other's argument, even if it's illogical or ridiculous. I'm looking at it from this angle: Both Naruto and Sasuke have the abilities to use what's presented to them. Not borrowing, not stealing, not sharing or whatever infinitive you want to use. Naruto has his own birth-right ability to use Kurama's power as he pleases. Sasuke has his own birth-right ability to use Sharingan in any way he deems necessary (in this instance, it was necessary to transplant Itachi's eyes so he could see, not to mention use the amplified powers).


Simple, isn't it? Was Kakashi borrowing or stealing Obito's power? Coincidentally, A Shairngan doesn't work well without an Uchiha's body, so it was literally Kakashi's ability to use Sharingan as he did. Just to prove my point.

 

[ComplexCity]

Post KCM. That's no longer the case.

1. After winning against Kurama and having a stronger seal. Naruto has more dominance over Kurama than before. He can suppress him at will if need be he can also enter the seal without succumbing to Kurama's influence.

Exhibit A: Chapter: 499 "A New Seal"

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Exhibit B: Chapter 538 "Cross-Examination"

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Note Kurama's own words on the situation: Chapter: 539 "A Bloody Night"

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Note Kurama's reaction to Naruto: Chapter 538: "Cross-Examination"

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

​

2. Their chakra is no longer linked which is good since his old seal's setup was unstable and dangerous

You must be registered for see images

Chapter: 499 "A New Seal"

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

3. Naruto's a nice guy. He won't force Kurama via tori seals or bleed him dry of chakra even though he can. although he admittedly did very early on when he received KCM.















4. Because of #3 rather than tearing chakra from someone he gained an incredibly strong partner. One that respects his own power and his resolve. One that'll answer his call and find along side him.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

P.S:

Keep in mind that Kurama is basically his summon as well as his life-long partner.

Kurama can take control of the Avatar or Naruto himself: Chapter 697 "The secret of space-time ninjutsu"​

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

​

I love how not one Sasuke fapboy attempted to refute this.
Thread soloed

 

[lndra]

:lol Wilds soloing

 

[Gagster]

>It's 2015
>Almost 10 months after the manga has ended
>People are still discussing this.
NB will never change.

 

[King Of Pop]

=Dockinabix;19022228]
Going the easy way by following someone who enhanced him by drugs, and borderline stuff don't make you strong. It's false strengh. Because against someone with better inner strengh you fall like a card castle. orochimaru made his body stronger but his mind got way more weak. That's why tobi manipulated him so easily.

when you can show scans of orochimaru enhancing him with drugs even though statements saying that were mere assumptions, then you can talk. all what he achieved post timeskip while with orochimaru, he got through training. and no one manipulated him easily, statements like that are a myth that needs to be disproved.