[VS] Who wins these on which diff?

[Punk Hazard]

Sanji never used Hells Memories or Haki and Vergo never used Haki. Sanji was holding back more, not to mention he was already injured.

No, Vergo was holding back far more. While Sanji was holding back Hell Memories and Haki, Vergo held back using Rokushiki, Haki, and his Bamboo stick. He was in a kicking match with Sanji, this area is Sanji's expertise while it's not Vergo's. Sanji got beat at his own game while holding back two things, while Vergo managed to outclass Sanji(at best for Sanji, it's a tie, and that's still bad) while holding back every part of his main fighting style. The portrayal of Vergo>Sanji is palpably evident.

1) Smoker High diff.

(People using excuses for Sanji losing against Vergo...While the fight never continued Vergo had yet to use Coa and his bamboo stick anyone who thinks Sanji would have done better than Smoker is either biased or delusional not to mention Smoker was fighting to distract Vergo rather than win in the end)

2) Sanji & Smoker mid diff.

(Both characters are physically faster and stronger than Law while Law's DF would be tricky for both Sanji and Smoker would eventually overcome Law).

It makes no sense as to why Smoker would be holding back in that fight. He had two reasons for fighting: Repaying his debt to Law, and avenging his men. While it can be argued that Smoker aimed to accomplish both by getting Law's heart back for him and having Law defeat Smoker, it's a weak argument because it goes against Smoker's character. He hates being indebted to a pirate, and feeling like he had to rely on one. He would never let a pirate do something for him if he can do it. Smoker's desire to avenge his comrades, whom he cares about, most definitely outweighs his desire to repay his debts to someone he strongly dislikes if not hates, so you can bet he went into that fight wanting to to avenge them more than he did wanting to repay Law. Smoker could not defeat Vergo, despite his best efforts, so he settled for repaying his debts and letting Law defeat Vergo, ultimately failing to avenge his comrades personally.

 

[Bogard]

So in the end, who do you think win?

 

[Punk Hazard]

1. Either way extreme diff IMO
2. Law extreme diff

 

[Bogard]

1. Either way extreme diff IMO
2. Law extreme diff

So you think Law can beat both Smoker and Sanji? You realize that as a devil fruit user, Smoker only needs to land his jutte once to finish the fight right? And considering he is a logia, his slashing ability is useless. He already had a hard time evading his devil fruit's maneuvrability in a 1 on 1. Adding an agile of a fighter as Sanji alongside him and Law would be pressure worse, so worse that Smoker landing his jutte would be much easier

 

[Punk Hazard]

So you think Law can beat both Smoker and Sanji? You realize that as a devil fruit user, Smoker only needs to land his jutte once to finish the fight right? And considering he is a logia, his slashing ability is useless. He already had a hard time evading his devil fruit's maneuvrability in a 1 on 1. Adding an agile of a fighter as Sanji alongside him and Law would be pressure worse, so worse that Smoker landing his jutte would be much easier

Yeah, I think it's possible.

 

[Bogard]

Yeah, I think it's possible.

Explain yourself

 

[TheHokage]

It makes no sense as to why Smoker would be holding back in that fight. He had two reasons for fighting: Repaying his debt to Law

Smoker wasn't holding back at the beginning of the fight that's why on two occasions he got the better of Vergo. It was specifically stated by Vergo that Smoker wasn't fighting how he usually does (spreading his smoke out and trying to get close etc...) this means Smoker was not fighting with the intention to win he was fighting with the intention of getting Law's heart at this point which means he wasn't fighting at his full potential it's common sense.

, and avenging his men. While it can be argued that Smoker aimed to accomplish both by getting Law's heart back for him and having Law defeat Smoker, it's a weak argument because it goes against Smoker's character. He hates being indebted to a pirate, and feeling like he had to rely on one. He would never let a pirate do something for him if he can do it. Smoker's desire to avenge his comrades, whom he cares about, most definitely outweighs his desire to repay his debts to someone he strongly dislikes if not hates, so you can bet he went into that fight wanting to to avenge them more than he did wanting to repay Law. Smoker could not defeat Vergo, despite his best efforts, so he settled for repaying his debts and letting Law defeat Vergo, ultimately failing to avenge his comrades personally.

I don't disagree...I never said Smoker could beat Vergo...I'm saying had Smoker went in with the intention of 'winning' rather than getting Law's heart back where he was taking unnecessary risks, blows and fighting with a completely different style of fighting than he usually does he would have pushed Vergo to an extreme diff fight IMO he clearly showed the speed to dodge and injure Vergo.

2. Law extreme diff

You do realize the Law and Smoker fight was actually relatively even it was a brief moment of Law blinding Smoker that allowed him to pick up the advantage throughout their actual fight Smoker was physically pushing Law add Sanji in the mix then I doubt Law could fend them both off.

However I'm assuming your a fan of Law so I understand why you think Law would win.

So you think Law can beat both Smoker and Sanji? You realize that as a devil fruit user, Smoker only needs to land his jutte once to finish the fight right? And considering he is a logia, his slashing ability is useless. He already had a hard time evading his devil fruit's maneuvrability in a 1 on 1. Adding an agile of a fighter as Sanji alongside him and Law would be pressure worse, so worse that Smoker landing his jutte would be much easier

I think this is the first time we've ever agreed on anything...I-I don't even know what is right or wrong in the world anymore.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Smoker wasn't holding back at the beginning of the fight that's why on two occasions he got the better of Vergo. It was specifically stated by Vergo that Smoker wasn't fighting how he usually does (spreading his smoke out and trying to get close etc...) this means Smoker was not fighting with the intention to win he was fighting with the intention of getting Law's heart at this point which means he wasn't fighting at his full potential it's common sense.



I don't disagree...I never said Smoker could beat Vergo...I'm saying had Smoker went in with the intention of 'winning' rather than getting Law's heart back where he was taking unnecessary risks, blows and fighting with a completely different style of fighting than he usually does he would have pushed Vergo to an extreme diff fight IMO he clearly showed the speed to dodge and injure Vergo.

That didn't happen until the end of the fight. Vergo said that literally the page before he defeated Smoker. The fact that Smoker was able to get the better of Vergo twice before, but then this tactic caused him to be defeated implies that he wasn't fighting this way for the entirety of the fight.


Smoker WAS fighting the way he usually does, and he saw he wasn't getting anywhere against Vergo. He saw he was no match for him, and then switched to the tactic of pouring out smoke and getting Law's heart to the Shichibukai, a tactic that got him defeated.

 

[TheHokage]

That didn't happen until the end of the fight. Vergo said that literally the page before he defeated Smoker. The fact that Smoker was able to get the better of Vergo twice before, but then this tactic caused him to be defeated implies that he wasn't fighting this way for the entirety of the fight.

The fight was only really 3 panels...and it was during the fight Smoker changed his fighting tactics. Smoker was clearly gaining the upper hand in the beginning of the fight. You're basically agreeing with me here you know... I said Smoker was fighting like usual at the beginning of the fight that's why he was landing hits on Vergo it was only when he prioritized Law's heart (his debt to Law) he changed his tactic which.

Basically what I'm saying is -

Smoker (intention of winning) > Smoker (Intention of getting Law's heart back).

Smoker WAS fighting the way he usually does, and he saw he wasn't getting anywhere against Vergo. He saw he was no match for him, and then switched to the tactic of pouring out smoke and getting Law's heart to the Shichibukai, a tactic that got him defeated.

BOLD: Only at the beginning of the fight hence why he was able to land a punch and elbow on Vergo while also out speeding him in close combat.

Again I agree Vergo is stronger however I believe Smoker and Vergo's strength is a lot closer than people 'like' to portray. I believe a prolonged fight with Vergo would put Smoker at a disadvantage especially considering Vergo is a tank to attacks I mean this guy took Sanji's kicks (brushed them off), took Law's Counter Shock (brushed it off) and took Haki punches from Smoker (While knocked to the ground brushed them off) Smoker probably realized in the fight he couldn't keep up his advantage in the fight due to Vergo gaining the advantage in a prolonged fight so decided to trust Law who has the ability to end the fight in one shot due to the unique nature of his devil fruit.

 

[Punk Hazard]

The fight was only really 3 panels...and it was during the fight Smoker changed his fighting tactics. Smoker was clearly gaining the upper hand in the beginning of the fight. You're basically agreeing with me here you know... I said Smoker was fighting like usual at the beginning of the fight that's why he was landing hits on Vergo it was only when he prioritized Law's heart (his debt to Law) he changed his tactic which.

Basically what I'm saying is -

Smoker (intention of winning) > Smoker (Intention of getting Law's heart back).



BOLD: Only at the beginning of the fight hence why he was able to land a punch and elbow on Vergo while also out speeding him in close combat.

Again I agree Vergo is stronger however I believe Smoker and Vergo's strength is a lot closer than people 'like' to portray. I believe a prolonged fight with Vergo would put Smoker at a disadvantage especially considering Vergo is a tank to attacks I mean this guy took Sanji's kicks (brushed them off), took Law's Counter Shock (brushed it off) and took Haki punches from Smoker (While knocked to the ground brushed them off) Smoker probably realized in the fight he couldn't keep up his advantage in the fight due to Vergo gaining the advantage in a prolonged fight so decided to trust Law who has the ability to end the fight in one shot due to the unique nature of his devil fruit.

And why did Smoker prioritize getting Law's heart over fighting Vergo? Because he saw that he could not defeat him and that Vergo was leagues ahead of him. You're saying that Smoker could have extreme diffed Vergo, but instead of doing so, the relentless, pirate-hating, comrade-avenging Smoker decided to be a *****, go lazy, and let Law do his work for him? No, Smoker knew he could never stand a real chance against Vergo, hence why he prioritized getting the heart. If Smoker could have pushed the fight to extreme-diff, he would have.

 

[Tomato God]

No, Vergo was holding back far more. While Sanji was holding back Hell Memories and Haki, Vergo held back using Rokushiki, Haki, and his Bamboo stick. He was in a kicking match with Sanji, this area is Sanji's expertise while it's not Vergo's. Sanji got beat at his own game while holding back two things, while Vergo managed to outclass Sanji(at best for Sanji, it's a tie, and that's still bad) while holding back every part of his main fighting style. The portrayal of Vergo>Sanji is palpably evident.

So lets examine this more closely going from the starting point

Sanji Who had spent all day fighting from the moment of being captured then had his body wrecked by nami to the point where punches from nami put him in (comedic) yet critical states of pain. Then went to fight vergo who in the first instance of exchange of blows fractured sanjis leg. From that point on it was a dead tie. Vergo did not win nor did sanji it was a draw with them both escaping from the gas at the last second.

And if we count the number of blows exchanged in total it was sanji who kicked vergo through walls not vice versa and then once his leg was fractured he was still able to go blow for blow.

Even if vergo was blind folded and drunk there was no way he was at a bigger dissatvantage than sanji who was on par with him with a broken leg an exguasted beaten body and a whole day of fighting behind him.

 

[Dęvîa Puęrî]

Law reacted to both luffy and Doffy while I think sanji is faster then luffy (prior g4) I dnt think its by much and I think Doffy is faster then sanji and gear second

With tht being said can't law create an invisible room (like against Doffy) and shambles both of them like how he did against taishigi smoker ? Granted it won't b as easy if he can't I think he would still win or at least lose at high to extreme diff simply because he fend off fuji and doffy for a good period of time both who r over the other 2


The first fight Idk ...tbh we haven't seen enough of sanji but I give it to him only cuz smoker has been unimpressive... And can't do fbcoa and sanji can fly etc out of way of I coming attacks .. but it will be at very least high diff I need haki feats from sanji

 

[SanjiZoroLuffy]

Sanji mid diff after we see his new moves
Sanji can beat law extreme diff if he knows his DF ability see how vergo blitz law and sanji is faster then vergo so sorry law fanboys sanji can beat him add in smoker its low diff sorry.