[Discussion] About Naruto, Sasuke, Hashirama and Madara

[super michael]

I want to talk about Naruto, Sasuke, Hashirama and Madara, I start with Madara and Hashirama.

As we know in Valley of the end, when Madara was battling Hashirama, Hashirama was way stronger than Madara, the only reason Madara even stood a chance was thanks to Kurama under his control, to put a chain

Madara and Kurama =< Hashirama
Madara << Hashirama

No Kurama = Madara loses easy.

Now with Naruto and Sasuke is different, the only reason Naruto is more power than Sasuke is thanks to having Kurama as the jinchuriken.

Had Naruto not got Kurama, then Naruto would be way weaker than Sasuke.

Here is my chain

Naruto + Kurama + 8 other bijuu chakra >> Rinnengan Sasuke
Naruto without Kurama ? Rinnengan Sasuke.

Its weird how Madara needs Kurama to keep up with Hashirama, while Naruto needs Kurama to keep up or surpass Sasuke.

 

[XxTayxX]

way to start off your first post.

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[Gerkak]

Hashirama is just badass like that. The strongest non otsutsuki guy without borrowed power.

 

[Airphenom]

During the final valley fight, SASUKE had the 8 tailed beasts and half of Kurama and used their chakra for his susanoo.. it was more like Naruto+half of kurama>=Rinnegan Sasuke with 8.5 tailed beasts chakra

 

[Kaneki Kun]

What have you started *facepalm*

 

[Naruto X Hunter]

Naruto was not stronger than Sasuke. If that was the case then Masashi wouldn't have made sure Sasuke lost his sword right before fighting Naruto, and he wouldn't have had Sasuke not use multiple techniques on him such as Chibaku Tensei,and Bansho Tenin.

During the final valley fight, SASUKE had the 8 tailed beasts and half of Kurama and used their chakra for his susanoo.. it was more like Naruto+half of kurama>=Rinnegan Sasuke with 8.5 tailed beasts chakra

Selective reading

Spoiler

Naruto had chakra from all the Bijuu aswell,the Sage said it twice.

Spoiler

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And Sasuke said it twice.

Spoiler

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When Sasuke got chakra from the Bijuu,the Kyuubi gathered,and gave all the natural energy aboveground to Naruto since Naruto was too busy fighting Sasuke too gather chakra on his own.Natural energy is mixed with the users physical energy,and spiritual energy to make Senjutsu,so when Sasuke got chakra from the Bijuu Naruto got a big boost of natural energy,and Senjutsu,which powered him up.

Spoiler

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Did you forget that? Not notice? Or just decide not to mention it as a way to make Naruto seem better?

 

[3MESSIAH]

I want to talk about Naruto, Sasuke, Hashirama and Madara, I start with Madara and Hashirama.

As we know in Valley of the end, when Madara was battling Hashirama, Hashirama was way stronger than Madara, the only reason Madara even stood a chance was thanks to Kurama under his control, to put a chain

Madara and Kurama =< Hashirama
Madara << Hashirama

No Kurama = Madara loses easy.

Now with Naruto and Sasuke is different, the only reason Naruto is more power than Sasuke is thanks to having Kurama as the jinchuriken.

Had Naruto not got Kurama, then Naruto would be way weaker than Sasuke.

Here is my chain

Naruto + Kurama + 8 other bijuu chakra >> Rinnengan Sasuke
Naruto without Kurama ? Rinnengan Sasuke.

Its weird how Madara needs Kurama to keep up with Hashirama, while Naruto needs Kurama to keep up or surpass Sasuke.

During the final valley fight, SASUKE had the 8 tailed beasts and half of Kurama and used their chakra for his susanoo.. it was more like Naruto+half of kurama>=Rinnegan Sasuke with 8.5 tailed beasts chakra

naruto>sasuke?

yeah sure i guess that`s why it was a draw

smh

 

[Styles]

Naruto will never surpass Sasuke. Naruto = Sasuke. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Gerkak]

Naruto was not stronger than Sasuke. If that was the case then Masashi wouldn't have made sure Sasuke lost his sword right before fighting Naruto, and he wouldn't have had Sasuke not use multiple techniques on him such as Chibaku Tensei,and Bansho Tenin.

Sasuke still had chidori sharp spear, which is better than his sword. The sword argument is a failure and stop joking, using chibaku tensei and bansho tenin barely left sasuke winded, he almost had full chakra reserves when he fought naruto

 

[Demonic.]

This is true.

 

[Styles]

Sasuke still had chidori sharp spear, which is better than his sword. The sword argument is a failure and stop joking, using chibaku tensei and bansho tenin barely left sasuke winded, he almost had full chakra reserves when he fought naruto

Lol Can't tell if serious or not. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Mikeuhsomething36]

I don't see why this matters, but the reason it's different is because of the level of skill and knowledge. Sasuke had not yet mastered his rinnegan and Naruto wasn't fighting full throttle unlike the madara fight where madara has mastered his powers and is going full throttle and hashirama has mastered his powers but was not going full throttle until he used solo Buddha.


Also no, juubisano was destroying Naruto the stalemate was not caused by naruto's power alone but through the NE. Saying Naruto is equal to juubisano is like me taking out a student loan and compare it to someone who got a full ride via scholarship and saying taking a student loan is just as good as getting a full ride from a scholarship, which is laughably wrong

 

[Airphenom]

naruto>sasuke?

yeah sure i guess that`s why it was a draw

smh

Sure i guess thats why Sasuke admitted he lost. Get over it, Sasuke won the fight in part one, Naruto won the fight in part two, now theyre even.

 

[Tennis Robot]

Hashirama is an anomaly among the Ashura 'archetype' in that he is very gifted on his own. Both Ashura and Naruto were stated to not be talented at all and were forced to train hard to be able keep up with Indra/Sasuke (and even then, they were inferior for a long time).

So basically:

Indra, Madara, Sasuke - Extremely gifted/arrogant
Ashura, Naruto - Require hard work/help to unlock their brilliance

Hashirama - Best of both worlds (extremely gifted and not a loner)

 

[SumnNarutoRelated]

Don't ever mention Hashirama kn the same breathe as any other Shinobi. If anything, he belongs in the dbz universe

 

[Naruto X Hunter]

Sasuke still had chidori sharp spear, which is better than his sword. The sword argument is a failure and stop joking, using chibaku tensei and bansho tenin barely left sasuke winded, he almost had full chakra reserves when he fought naruto

Sasuke used his sword against Madara for a reason,cause it's effective.If having his sword didn't make a difference,and wouldn't matter,than why did Masashi purposefully make sure Sasuke lost it before fighting Naruto?

That is a clear indication that he was powering down Sasuke cause the sword would be effective.If Naruto could easily counter it,then why not have Sasuke keep his sword,use it against Naruto,and show Naruto easily countering it?

We saw how easily Sasuke was able to make his sword stab Madara threw his chest.Madara survived because he was the Juubi's jin,and had instant regeneration. Naruto doesn't have that,so no Sword for Sasuke or he could end up stabbing Naruto through the chest as easily as he did Madara.


Sasuke was able to use Chidori spear since the beginning of Part 2,and he's had a Sword since the beginning of Part 2 aswell,if Chidori spear was so much better than his sword then why even have it?

The Sword is a physical object which he can swap places with.Sasuke can't swap places with the Chidori spear which is formed from his chakra.It's obvious which one is more useful.

Also what did you mean about CT,and BT barely leaving him winded? All i said was he didn't use those techniques on Naruto at all.

Sure i guess thats why Sasuke admitted he lost. Get over it, Sasuke won the fight in part one, Naruto won the fight in part two, now theyre even.

Selective reading/reasoning again. Sasuke lost an ideology,not the physical battle. They were both laying on the ground unable to move,dieing from bloodloss from having blown each others arm off.

 

[Dr Gilgamesh]

Good thread. Sasuke > Naruto without tailed Beasts :bdpf:

 

[Gerkak]

Lol Can't tell if serious or not. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Serious, did sasuke look winded to you? He didn't look winded to me.

Even if saying he nearly had full reserves is a bit of an exaggeration, he still had a lot of chakra left in the tank

Sasuke used his sword against Madara for a reason,cause it's effective.If having his sword didn't make a difference,and wouldn't matter,than why did Masashi purposefully make sure Sasuke lost it before fighting Naruto?

That is a clear indication that he was powering down Sasuke cause the sword would be effective.If Naruto could easily counter it,then why not have Sasuke keep his sword,use it against Naruto,and show Naruto easily countering it?

We saw how easily Sasuke was able to make his sword stab Madara threw his chest.Madara survived because he was the Juubi's jin,and had instant regeneration. Naruto doesn't have that,so no Sword for Sasuke or he could end up stabbing Naruto through the chest as easily as he did Madara.


Sasuke was able to use Chidori spear since the beginning of Part 2,and he's had a Sword since the beginning of Part 2 aswell,if Chidori spear was so much better than his sword then why even have it?

The Sword is a physical object which he can swap places with.Sasuke can't swap places with the Chidori spear which is formed from his chakra.It's obvious which one is more useful.

Also what did you mean about CT,and BT barely leaving him winded? All i said was he didn't use those techniques on Naruto at all.

Sasuke lost his sword at the begining of the kaguya fight, why assume it was made to be lost because of only naruto and not kaguya?

In theory sasuke could use anything else even a kunai, why focus on the sword? You make it seem like sasuke's only chance of victory rested on him having his sword. If sasuke could easily use such a method then he would have used a kunai in place of the sword( a kunai to the heart would kill naruto as easily as sword to heart would)

Chidori sharp spear is better than his sword, that much is clear. Sasuke's sword needed s/t ninjutsu to pierce madara, but chidori sharp spear sliced him with ease. Sword failed against raikage while chidori pierced him. It is clear which is better. Why does sasuke still have the sword? Who knows, that's just like saying why does danzo need a kinai when he has his wind jutsu.

Like I said sasuke could have used a kunai in place of the sword, sasuke was able to get madara with that trick because madara still didn't understand the nature of his powers, after that he never used such trick on madara again. Why? sage mode threat perception + knowledge means madara can dodge it. Naruto who has equal if not better sensing, speed and also has knowledge will also dodge it.

Oh my bad, I thought you meant he was winded after using those. Sometimes certain techniques aren't used in battle for no reason, why didn't madara use more than limbo against naruto and sasuke, why didn't naruto use 2 TBBRS against sasuke instead of one, why didn't sasuke use indra's arrow from the beginning?

 

[Mikeuhsomething36]

Sasuke still had chidori sharp spear, which is better than his sword. The sword argument is a failure and stop joking, using chibaku tensei and bansho tenin barely left sasuke winded, he almost had full chakra reserves when he fought naruto

I wouldn't say full reserves, because throughout the time sasuke approached on the battle field, he only got healed once by kabuto I believe. From that point, sasuke's been, spamming Perfect Susano, using chakra taxing techniques, using a rinnegan that drains chakra faster than the dickens, amaterasu, CT, and much more and only got healed from kabuto and he still assisted obito with travelling from one kaguya dimension to the next because Sakura was spent and obito noted that it takes a ton of chairs to travel. And still ONLY GOT HEALED LAST TIME BY KABUTO. And we know that the rinnegan drains chakra faster than the sharnningan, and still fought a taijutsu battle for a day against Naruto and some techs here and there. If I remember correctly SM actually heals it's users and RSM should heal a lot more than just a little, Naruto used some chakra taxing techs as well but he had assistance as he is Ashura, but Sasuke had a full ride by himself. So the argument that sasuke had almost all of his chakra reserves is ludicrous, sasuke was in a much more weakened state with an inexperienced rinnegan but still fought a good fight. One can only imagine if sasuke was 100% healthy.

 

[Mikeuhsomething36]

Serious, did sasuke look winded to you? He didn't look winded to me.

Even if saying he nearly had full reserves is a bit of an exaggeration, he still had a lot of chakra left in the tank

Saying you have to look winded to be winded is like saying you have to look depressed ever single moment you breathe in order for someone to tell if you have a depressive disorder, which is false.