How Can People Hate Sasuke, But Not Gaara?

[JStar King]

Please people . Stop to minimize and ignore the sasuke's trauma and his terrible past.


Itachi Killing his own mother and father. Practically in front of his own brother Then he mentally tortures Sasuke showing the entire massacre during hours in a genjutsu. After Sasuke saw his dead parents body without can't do anything.

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Itachi mentally and emotionally tortured Sasuke. He intended to have him kill his friend, leading him to be a murderer and traitor. Telling your brother to hate you for it .Taunting him and twisting his reality.

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Then he mentally tortures him again, years later, when Sasuke was starting to heal with the help of Team 7. Itachi come back to brutally beaten sasuke and made another brutal tsukuyomi to torture Sasuke reviving his worst trauma a point to send Sasuke in a Coma state

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Sasuke is not a bad person. Sasuke lost his entire family and it affected him very deeply…
That’s why he became rude and cold to others..
Itachi's betrayal clearly caused him to develop deep psychological scars, perhaps also a mental barrier that kept him from associating closely with anyone until he was dumped into Team 7. That would explain his drastic change in personality post massacre.
Even Hagoromo and Kakashi recognize this.

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Of course Sasuke has no reasons to be ****ed up he was only betrayed by the most loved person to him his brother at the age of 8.
Lost his entire family was tortured and grew up alone without any support.

It's just depressing.
The image of that kid laying on the floor like that, like he doesn't even know what to do with himself at that point.
The memory of his parents murder still was very fresh in his mind.

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About Sasuke's redemption.
Sasuke did not start the war. He actively opposed the war, and ultimately put it to an end saving everyone in the process.
He didn't kill anyone in the war excluding White Zetsus


Sasuke redeemed his crime like enter the Akatsuki When he helped against Kabuto, Juubi, Obito, Madara and Kaguya and brought 4 Hokages to stop the war.
Sasuke helped much more to stop the war than the Five Kages together.
After still dissipated the Mugen Tsukuyomi. Saving the humanity to become white zetsus.

Without Sasuke's participation in the War the whole world would be destroyed.



About Gaara Keep in mind Gaara killed a lot more innocent people than sasuke never had.

Sasuke in part 1 and even in part 2 until Kage arc was a very benevolent person Like he refused to Kill Naruto to get MS or innocent people during his battles

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Gaara had a numerous murders and deaths in his bag at the age of 12.
Gaara was a true cold blooded murderer and psychopath in Part 1much more worse than Sasuke in his worst state during Iron Country arc. Sasuke only killed Randoms Samurais for self defense.
Gaara killed only for fun

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Gaara even enjoyed to kill and torture people in cruel ways

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He even goes for the hospital to kill an innocent lee without any defense only because he wants wihiout any reason.

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Gaara killed without no reason anyone who was in his front:

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Shukaku isn't a Excuse
Before Yashamaru died Shukaku wasn't convincing him to kill people, after Naruto came along Shukaku wasn't either. We now know that it was always his mother's love that was protecting him in the form of a Sand shield, not the Bijuu. And like Kurama Shukaku wasn't actually that malevolent.



Gaara was doing everything of his own will.

It was he who ultimately decided that he existed to kill.

He had clearly gone insane, but that's not an excuse. Sasuke too was going off the deep end, but Sasuke never turned out as bad as Gaara.

Not only are fans comparing Sasuke to Gaara. but even GAARA compared himself to Sasuke.

His similarity to Sasuke was the reason for his obsession with him in Part 1, saying he had the same eyes; eyes that knew true pain and loneliness.

In Part 2 he directly compared himself to Sasuke, crying for him and saying that his eyes were still the way Gaara's were before.

When Gaara snapped and became insane, deciding to only live for himself and to kill, it was from Yashamaru's betrayal. This is not unlike Sasuke's feelings of betrayal from Itachi, and later Konoha, except Gaara didn't have his entire family murdered.

And even if Gaara had a worse childhood, Gaara also turned out worse. He was pretty much the most evil character in the series during the time before Naruto TnJ'd him.



The only difference was Sasuke is a main character. Rival of naruto.
Gaara was a side character.

Gaara's decline to insanity, and his conversion, was quick, while Sasuke's fall and redemption was slower. Sasuke couldn't be easily converted because he still retained a very coherent mindset, which continued to reason against Naruto's advances.

Finally someone gets it. Excellent post

 

[shelke]

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Ya know, you sound like a future terrorist... First off, Sasuke planned to kill everyone in Konoha, most of whom are innocent, in killing them, he'd drive other kids insane, so they could have nightmares of their parents dying every night, oh wait, no, he'd have killed the innocent children as well. Sasuke was a hypocrite and insane, he was willing to slaughter dozens of innocent people and kill his own allies for the crimes of a handful of people (me even though the Uchiha are also responsible, considering they were willing to start a civil war for ultimately petty reasons).

You Sasuke apologists are rather irritating, you say that Sasuke wanting to commit genocide and kill innocent men, women, and children over the deaths of his family (who were traitors) is justified, yet Gaara snapping, Gaara, who was hated by everyone, never knew love, saw the one person who ever loved him try to kill him, had his own father tried to kill him, had constant attempts on his life, and never slept once in his life, makes no sense. Honestly, how would a six year old, logically, survive alone in a desert waste?

Sasuke had constant chances to change his ways and return to the light, because, regardless of what he went through, it was wrong to try and make innocent people suffer for his pain. Back on point, Sasuke had multiple chances, before turning traitor he had people that cared for and wished to help him in the village, after going psycho he had people constantly reach out to him, but he swatted them all away. Gaara, on the other hand, took the first chance he got to change, and made a complete 180 and went out of his way to atone.

Also, innocents, why do you keep saying innocents? The Uchiha, regardless of what the fanboys say, we're not innocent, they were willing to start a civil war that would likely turn into a world war all because they felt snubbed (despite being one of the most, if not the most politically powerful clan in Konoha). What are you going to bring up, the Nine Tails incident? Guess what, an Uchiha was behind that. They were willing to let thousands if not millions of innocent people die for pretty petty reasons, and we're unwilling to just negotiate. With Pain, it wasn't just Konoha, what happened to Nagato's village was a world war, innocent lives were lost on all sides, including Konoha's.

Tell me this, if someone kills my father, is it justified for me to kill them, and then their whole family as well, to kill their children who had nothing to do with what their father did, in that circumstance, what makes me any better? The taking of innocent lives isn't justified, no matter how wronged you feel. Sasuke's plan was monstrous and hypocritical, I don't know why so many people try to excuse it.

Terrorist? What's wrong, did I hurt you emotionally? Never mind, you are from America; a country terrorizing several countries, pillaging their resources and openly engaging in mass-slaughters on whims, greed, and moral corruption. Yeah, you would clearly know the dimensions and the moral high grounds for the term 'terrorist'. Which is why you talked about 'Morals' in your post. Lol This guy.

I was talking about how human psychology works. From the standpoint of a character wronged by the political infrastructure of Konoha, he had a right to attack the village. Konoha lobby didn't spare the children in his small village - it was a segregated compound after all - he chose to do the same; the blood of innocents for innocents. It's a very basic philosophy, so I would ask you to spare me your weak attempts at arguments that you believe to be turgid. Besides, Konoha was the instigator. When such a mass tragedy occurs, the village becomes a banner and the citizens the targets for anyone's vengeance; it need not necessarily be a person, but a political lobby, a village or even a country etc.

Even then, Sasuke actually went to attack the village when it was evacuated of civilians. This procedure has been confirmed several times in the manga, especially in the war arc when Sasuke noticed now the villages were empty and Mei's division was shown taking care of several evacuations. In fact, Sasuke knew through White Zetsu that Konoha had no civilians as a war was going on. Better catch up on the manga.

Your opinions on who's a traitor or not means nothing to me or anyone who knows that a clan that was segregated and spied upon for decades had every right to reclaim their share in the political set up; they were the founding fathers. I irritate you? Good, because I will try to irritate you more now. The treacherous actions were from the lobby that breached the 'equality merits set within the treaty'. Tobirama should have been tried for treason and hanged along with his tiny band of fruity apologists for breaching the treaty without the consent of the founding clan.

As for Gaara, then I am sorry, no one forced him to stay in the village. Sure, I completely accept his plight as a child, but when he grew up - 12 - 13 -, it transformed into a self-inflicted tragedy. He chose to stay in the village, he chose to bear that hatred of his family and he chose to bear the burden of attempts on his life. He could have left the village; he was strong and powerful enough to do so. I don't see any justification in your points on his 'woe is me' outlook on life, when he chose to stay with the same treacherous and murderous family himself. No wonder he turned into a psychotic nut-job.

Here we go again; the Light and Dark arguments. How old are you? Someone who is still addicted to gummy bears, I bet, because characterization, character depth, verisimilitude, and plot value remain unruffled by your merits - which are hilarious, by the way - on rights or wrongs or light and dark justifications you keep churning out repeatedly. Your opinions on skewed morals don't hinge upon how the character itself is written, or what its worth is. I suggest you do yourself an immense favour and stop talking about these self-created merits of humanity, as they don't have much worth in a discussion about characterization. Good grief ...

You believe that anyone who clings to Jingoism is a great, well-written character, has great value when it has nothing to do with it. I see no reason for Sasuke to cling to the lobby who killed every last person in his clan. Rather, Sasuke has showed the capability of a freed-human psychology; a consciousness that thinks or perceives outside these Nationalistic shenanigans and is thus far more elevated than your average Joe in the manga.

You want to talk about light? Sasuke freed many prisoners from hideouts. Sasuke is the saviour, a messiah for those men. Had he destroyed Konoha, he would have been a hero to Rain and many small villages Konoha had been terrorizing since it was created. What now? You think Light and Shadow is such a simple concept that you can make such a sweeping generalization for it? By god, dude, you are making less and less sense with each paragraph. Finally, for this para anyway, did you just place morals and Light as concepts analogous to Nationalism / Jingoism etc? I don't think there is much hope for someone like you then. Because that is just ****ing insane.

Where is the proof for this other than a few anecdotes? Pein attacked the village - nothing happened. No village took advantage of it. When Konoha was in the process of losing Kurama and that meant a precious moment for villages like Cloud and Rock to attack and eliminate the competition once and for all. Whoor what was stopping them, when Pein single-handedly rent Konoha asunder? In fact, Rock had close ties to Akatsuki as well. Sand and Sound attack, no one took advantage, when again, had Cloud and Rock or Mist attacked, Konoha wouldn't have seen the second day on the map. Nothing happened again. Why? Because treaties were in place.

Then we have your versions of who is innocent and who isn't. As I mentioned earlier; Uchiha had every right to fight back. It was their inherent and political right to have a share in the ruling lobby. They were the founding fathers. The higher lobby could have easily eliminated the threat by giving them equal treatment through dialogue, yet they chose slaughter. That is something Madara had feared long ago. Frankly speaking, Uchiha turned out to be stupid in this regard. They should have killed Itachi when they sniffed out his leanings and allied with another village like Sound and should have eliminated most of the forces. Sound and Konoha would have been amalgamated in this regard. Every body would have been happy. Also, Uchiha had a duty to their own people, not the damn village with its flip-flopping and warped morals.

Sorry, but Rain's economy and political security was persistently jeopardized by Konoha; either through wars that she itself instigated via peddling Bijuu and keeping the strongest itself, and through Root's affairs. Nagato never should have brought back the killed people to life. He should have killed Naruto and decimated Konoha, because that is what it deserved for persistently ruining Rain's economy, killing people by funding terrorists - Danzo did that quite frequently - and the slaughter of innocents because of 'collateral damage' in wars. She had what was coming to her and it was long overdue. Too bad Kishimoto decided to write this under Shounen. This would have made an excellent Seinen manga. And the way you are wording it, it seems as if you believe that Konoha was faultless. Oh boy ...

No idea what you are talking about. It depends upon the circumstances. If someone kills my whole family, damn straight I'll kill theirs. It has nothing to do with whether an action is holy or can be condoned or not, but whether there is a factor of it being justifiable or not. And who told you that my sole purpose is to excuse Sasuke's actions? Sasuke is a well written and an extremely complex character. That's all there is to it. You don't like him because he isn't light and bright? That has no value to his merit as an amazing character. In fact, morals have nothing to do with it. Keep that in mind.

 

[startup97]

Hiruzen solos.

 

[TrollingSage]

Didn't see Gaara trying to kill his own team mates

 

[Narutohokage324]

Sasuke was born a normal shinobi

Gaara was born a weapon

Sasuke was seen as a prodigy

Gaara was seen a a monster

Sasuke did not live in fear of being killed

Gaara had multiple attempts at his life

Sasuke knew love

Gaara did not

Sasuke turned evil

Gaara saw the errors of his ways

Sasuke only has his interest in mind

Gaara does not

Dat wilds soloing since the 6 :bdpf:

 

[Chie]

Presentation and personality. Fans can also tell where the author's own loyalties to his characters lie. An author's bias usually does affect the story and the reader's view on the situation.

Kishimoto does portray the Uchiha clan and others that go against the nationalistic system a certain way. And shinobi in general in another. It's no secret that in Kishimoto's mind and with his own ideals, he thought the Uchiha were wrong and that Konoha was wrong as well... but the latter less so and he does harp on the "Will of Fire" as something that is "good".

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As for what I think, in the end I don't find either to be terribly all that realistic or have the ability to feel sympathy for them outside of their very early childhoods. (No offence to fans, I understand why people like them- I just don't. Though I don't hate them either.) I cannot take Gaara seriously as someone who turned their path to something more positive, nor can I view Sasuke as a real avenger or someone who cares for his clan.

Gaara was someone who was wronged by his father for the system but years later becomes a part of the same system in his father's place and delivers a very patriotic speech saying that all of them should be unified since the Akatsuki wronged them. The villages would pay off the Akatsuki for missions and have wronged others themselves... so this wasn't the best dialogue. His end doesn't add up with his beginning.

The latter is worse. Sasuke goes on for years talking about vengeance only to never exact revenge. In chapter 698, Sasuke leaves all his ideals at the drop of a dime and only because Naruto tied with him. Yes, I understand that Naruto was willing to lose an arm for him. But the same Naruto was willing to lose his life for him in the part one fight. So, this wasn't a very touching reason. In ch 699, Kishimoto wrote him apologising for his actions. He even goes to work for the same system and was mentioned to be on a mission by Shikamaru in the latest chapter of Naruto Gaiden.

^As a reader, this leads me to question if the love for his brother and family was ever genuine. Sadly, I honestly do not think it was. The entire idea of "familial vengeance" was a burden his brother placed on him... had the latter not told him to go after him I doubt he ever would. He'd stay in the village enjoying his time with Team 7. Sasuke is mentioned to be self-centered and do what he wants to w/o ever thinking of consequences. Kishimoto is correct on this. His changes stopped making sense after the Hokage were edo'd. He was just used to continue the story and the author doesn't even think revenge of this scale is justified. He could not relate to Sasuke's character himself and as a result he filled the same Shounen rival stereotype in the end perfectly.

 

[shelke]

Presentation and personality. Fans can also tell where the author's own loyalties to his characters lie. An author's bias usually does affect the story and the reader's view on the situation.

Kishimoto does portray the Uchiha clan and others that go against the nationalistic system a certain way. And shinobi in general in another. It's no secret that in Kishimoto's mind and with his own ideals, he thought the Uchiha were wrong and that Konoha was wrong as well... but the latter less so and he does harp on the "Will of Fire" as something that is "good".

---
As for what I think, in the end I don't find either to be terribly all that realistic or have the ability to feel sympathy for them outside of their very early childhoods. (No offence to fans, I understand why people like them- I just don't. Though I don't hate them either.) I cannot take Gaara seriously as someone who turned their path to something more positive, nor can I view Sasuke as a real avenger or someone who cares for his clan.

Gaara was someone who was wronged by his father for the system but years later becomes a part of the same system in his father's place and delivers a very patriotic speech saying that all of them should be unified since the Akatsuki wronged them. The villages would pay off the Akatsuki for missions and have wronged others themselves... so this wasn't the best dialogue. His end doesn't add up with his beginning.

The latter is worse. Sasuke goes on for years talking about vengeance only to never exact revenge. In chapter 698, Sasuke leaves all his ideals at the drop of a dime and only because Naruto tied with him. Yes, I understand that Naruto was willing to lose an arm for him. But the same Naruto was willing to lose his life for him in the part one fight. So, this wasn't a very touching reason. In ch 699, Kishimoto wrote him apologising for his actions. He even goes to work for the same system and was mentioned to be on a mission by Shikamaru in the latest chapter of Naruto Gaiden.

^As a reader, this leads me to question if the love for his brother and family was ever genuine. Sadly, I honestly do not think it was. The entire idea of "familial vengeance" was a burden his brother placed on him... had the latter not told him to go after him I doubt he ever would. He'd stay in the village enjoying his time with Team 7. Sasuke is mentioned to be self-centered and do what he wants to w/o ever thinking of consequences. Kishimoto is correct on this. His changes stopped making sense after the Hokage were edo'd. He was just used to continue the story and the author doesn't even think revenge of this scale is justified. He could not relate to Sasuke's character himself and as a result he filled the same Shounen rival stereotype in the end perfectly.

I agree with most of your points bar Sasuke. You have to understand the genre constraints. This is a shounen manga. He was meant realize that 'friendship is love, friendship is life'. I thought he was fine before that confession.

Secondly, yes he would have gone after anyone had it not been Itachi. All that plot-line would have shifted to that person then.

 

[Chie]

I agree with most of your points bar Sasuke. You have to understand the genre constraints. This is a shounen manga. He was meant realize that 'friendship is love, friendship is life'. I thought he was fine before that confession.

It is a shounen manga, but that type of writing really shouldn't be brought up in the first place if the author cannot or doesn't want to see it out until the end. It still happened and is a part of his character.

People complain about Nagato and his tnj via Jiraiya's book but no one really gives it a pass and says "No problem. It was a shounen". The same can and should apply to Sasuke. And every other antagonist that did not die with their ideals.

Secondly, yes he would have gone after anyone had it not been Itachi. All that plot-line would have shifted to that person then.

Alright, I concede on this.

 

[shelke]

It is a shounen manga, but that type of writing really shouldn't be brought up in the first place if the author cannot or doesn't want to see it out until the end. It still happened and is a part of his character.

People complain about Nagato and his tnj via Jiraiya's book but no one really gives it a pass and says "No problem. It was a shounen". The same can and should apply to Sasuke. And every other antagonist that did not die with their ideals.

Alright, I concede on this.

That is Kishimoto's fault. He had no clue how to connect all the threads and make it look believable. Nagato falling for a book was even more preposterous than Sasuke's sudden alteration. It is an Out of Character plot devise to fit into the genre. It can be disregarded.

 

[Aznkidd]

One more thing you may forgot that Gaara has not slept a single night. Try yourself to not sleep within 3 days and see if you get insane or not, let alone some one can never have a full dream.

 

[Tennis Robot]

That is Kishimoto's fault. He had no clue how to connect all the threads and make it look believable. Nagato falling for a book was even more preposterous than Sasuke's sudden alteration. It is an Out of Character plot devise to fit into the genre. It can be disregarded.

I don't think it is. I think that it is very believable. Naruto didn't just TNJ people in the middle of fighting them. He had Nagato in a position where he had been defeated, and in the Sasuke/Gaara fights both fighters were at the point of exhaustion but Naruto was going to try to keep fighting. In these moments, Sasuke/Gaara realized that Naruto had something that they did not possess themselves (I am not saying that Naruto won, but that Sasuke/Gaara had revelations about their own reasons for fighting and desire to win). For Nagato, his 'godly' power had just been defeated by a kid and he himself was lost. I hope that makes sense I can try to explain it more if you want me to...

 

[shelke]

I don't think it is. I think that it is very believable. Naruto didn't just TNJ people in the middle of fighting them. He had Nagato in a position where he had been defeated, and in the Sasuke/Gaara fights both fighters were at the point of exhaustion but Naruto was going to try to keep fighting. In these moments, Sasuke/Gaara realized that Naruto had something that they did not possess themselves (I am not saying that Naruto won, but that Sasuke/Gaara had revelations about their own reasons for fighting and desire to win). For Nagato, his 'godly' power had just been defeated by a kid and he himself was lost. I hope that makes sense I can try to explain it more if you want me to...

Oh come on! Nagato still had enough chakra to bring everyone to life. Naruto? He was done. He had Konan as well. Gaara's change was unrealistic and too quick. Sure, a gradual change after the time skip would have made sense. But a complete Mr. Establishment personality after only a few months? Defeat is also not a prerequisite for change. A lot of people become stronger in their resolve after defeat.

I don't agree with the rest, as Naruto possesses everything I dislike.

 

[Tennis Robot]

Oh come on! Nagato still had enough chakra to bring everyone to life. Naruto? He was done. He had Konan as well. Gaara's change was unrealistic and too quick. Sure, a gradual change after the time skip would have made sense. But a complete Mr. Establishment personality after only a few months? Defeat is also not a prerequisite for change. A lot of people becomes stronger in their resolve after defeat.

I don't agree with the rest, as Naruto possesses everything I dislike.

Everything you dislike? Can you elaborate on that please?

 

[shelke]

Everything you dislike? Can you elaborate on that please?

His messiah complex that encompasses all the related personality traits; it's unrealistic and not relatable. Without this factor, a character becomes only a stuff of fictions with nothing grounded in reality. That makes it a poor character and a stuff of poor quality literature or stories in general.

 

[Aznkidd]

Oh come on! Nagato still had enough chakra to bring everyone to life. Naruto? He was done. He had Konan as well. Gaara's change was unrealistic and too quick. Sure, a gradual change after the time skip would have made sense. But a complete Mr. Establishment personality after only a few months? Defeat is also not a prerequisite for change. A lot of people becomes stronger in their resolve after defeat.

I don't agree with the rest, as Naruto possesses everything I dislike.

So you expect him to rip off sasuke head and he will be cool ?
You expect him to destroy Nagato and he will be awesome ?
You expect him to copy&paste almost everything and able to foreseen everything in combat like your lord ?

No, he is the example of Peace. He represent light to shine through darkness. One day his light will penetrate your hatred...

 

[Tennis Robot]

His messiah complex that encompasses all the related personality traits; it's unrealistic and not relatable. Without this factor, a character becomes only a stuff of fictions with nothing grounded in reality. That makes it a poor character and a stuff of poor quality literature or stories in general.

I found him very relatable. If it doesn't seem realistic, try it The real world is not a work of literature

 

[shelke]

I found him very relatable. If it doesn't seem realistic, try it The real world is not a work of literature

But Literature is a work inspired from real world. All philosophers agree. It has been used to bring change in societies by people such as Homer, Sophocles, Dickens, Shakespeare, Dickens, Pope etc. Let's not slight it.

 

[shelke]

So you expect him to rip off sasuke head and he will be cool ?
You expect him to destroy Nagato and he will be awesome ?
You expect him to copy&paste almost everything and able to foreseen everything in combat like your lord ?

No, he is the example of Peace. He represent light to shine through darkness. One day his light will penetrate your hatred...

You have got to be trolling or something ...

 

[Tennis Robot]

But Literature is a work inspired from real world. All philosophers agree. It has been used to bring change in societies by people such as Homer, Sophocles, Dickens, Shakespeare, Dickens, Pope etc. Let's not slight it.

That is very true, and I don't mean to insinuate that it is not vital to the progress of humanity. I'm saying that perhaps you do not believe enough in people to think that they could be like an 'unrealistic' character

 

[Aznkidd]

You have got to be trolling or something ...

Your sign and avatar show that you are some one is waiting for some one else to take you away from all the mess in your life, but since there is no one, so you think that is just unrealistic dream to come true. Everything around you just darkness. This is why you think light doesnt exist.