Ashura vs RSM Naruto.

[KidGamer65]

Hagoromo's Chakra was split in half, Yin to Indra and Yang to Ashura. Inheriting Chakra is different then being granted Chakra.

That was never stated, and I know that inheriting and transfer are different, that's why there is no evidence that Indra and Ashura inherited all his chakra just because Naruto and Sasuke both obtained half each. Not to mention you have the people mixed up. Naruto and Sasuke got all of Hagoromo's chakra split between them. Not Indra and Ashura.

To gain the Rinnegan, you first have to combine both halves of his powers, otherwise referred to as Indra and Ashura's Chakra. It was directly stated in the Manga, the Stone Tablet also said so, though it was altered, I doubt that BZ had a reason to change that little bit of info.

True, but not seeing how this is relevant.

Yin and Yang seals are a symbolisation that Naruto and Sasuke were granted more power.

No, it's not.

And actually, they do come with more powers than your giving them credit for. The seals had a unique Chakra that were mistaken for both Hagoromo and Hamura's Chakra.

1. That's because they are a sealing jutsu. They don't add to their overall power in any way, shape, or form.

2. Wrong. She saw their Sun and Moon marks, so she assumed that they were her son's reincarnations as they had the same techniques. Then she actually analyzed their chakra with the Byakugan, and saw that Hagoromo gave them the jutsu, and that they were Indra and Ashura's reincarnations.

Hamura and Hagoromo (before becoming a Jin and gaining both seals), are the current benchmark for Naruto and Sasuke.
And Kaguya's sons are more powerful than Hagoromo's sons.

True, but once again, not really relevant.

 

[Scryed]

Didn't Hagoromo state that Indra and Ashura destroyed each other or was it in the Databook? I remember reading this.


Rinnegan is the superior eye but it depends on who's using it. Hagoromo had a Rinnegan amplified by his RSM. Shouldn't it be alot stronger than the Rinnegan by itself? I'd imagine Indra's MS would've been weaker than Hagoromo's Rinnegan but Ashura's RSM would've still been inferior to Hagoromo's RSM if both Indra and Ashura destroyed each other during their fight.

Saying he unlocked his Yang chakra makes sense though I'm not so sure he's superior to Naruto since Naruto was also powered by portions of all 9 Bijuu (Being a perfect Jin makes him even more powerful than a simple Jin). Naruto's avatar ended up being as big as a PS. By the looks of it, Ashura seemed to have gotten better use of his Gudodama though.

 

[Lord of Akatsuki]

That was never stated, and I know that inheriting and transfer are different, that's why there is no evidence that Indra and Ashura inherited all his chakra just because Naruto and Sasuke both obtained half each. Not to mention you have the people mixed up. Naruto and Sasuke got all of Hagoromo's chakra split between them. Not Indra and Ashura.

They inherited the two halves of his power 'sigh'

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'Looking for stability, one god was divided into Yin and Yang, the action of the two opposing forces created all things in Nature.' The Manga has been drilling into us for ages now that the Sage's sons were both halves of his power, and that the two sons chakras and blood conjoining together will awaken the Rinnegan.

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Ashura was the Sage's yang, and Indra the Sage's Yin, together, through brining the two opposite halves together, only than can the Rinnegan be obtained, because to awaken the Rinnegan you first need to awaken Hagoromo's chakra, which can only be done through having both halves of his split power.

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Further drilling is that its been revealed the same thing happened with Kaguya.

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(Translation).
'Ever since "humans" were given form, they have fought each other and walked in a world of war. The earth was stained with blood, and as if it were absorbing that blood for nourishment, the Shinju took root in the earth. Eventually the Shinju bore a single fruit, and a certain clan came from another world seeking that fruit: the Otsutsuki clan. Kaguya, leader of the Otsutsuki, ate the fruit and became the progenitor of all chakra, and with her absolute power brought peace to the world in an instant.

After ending the turbulent era, she became known as the Rabbit Goddess and received the blessing of the people, giving birth to twins. But after that, Kaguya would occasionally use harsh means to rule the people as a dictator. The Byakugan, Sharingan, and Infinite Tsukuyomi - the people feared and respected the jutsu Kaguya wielded. Eventually, the "Rabbit Goddess" became known as a demon instead. And then, Kaguya became ruled by her desire to make all chakra her own.

To make all chakra one - Kaguya's desire eventually turned on Hagoromo and Hamura, her own twin sons with whom she had split her chakra. Kaguya formed a plan, and in order to take in all chakra, fused with the Shinju and battled against her twin sons.

The twins, assuming that the Juubi was a transformed Shinju attacking them in order to reclaim the chakra that was taken from it, faced off against it. And after a fierce battle, they activated Rikudou Chibaku Tensei. They turned it into the moon and sealed it away.'

Its been noted several times that when an Otsutsuki has children, their Chakra is split in halves between those children, and those children inherit those 'halves.'

True, but not seeing how this is relevant.

See above^

No, it's not.


1. That's because they are a sealing jutsu. They don't add to their overall power in any way, shape, or form.

2. Wrong. She saw their Sun and Moon marks, so she assumed that they were her son's reincarnations as they had the same techniques. Then she actually analyzed their chakra with the Byakugan, and saw that Hagoromo gave them the jutsu, and that they were Indra and Ashura's reincarnations.

Yes it is. The two seals were something only Hagoromo and Hamura had, the two halves of Kaguya, Naruto and Sasuke having them means that they are the only ones who could possibly gain power on their level.

When Naruto lost his Yang seal he lost the ability to heal, when he had it he could have easily regenerated his and Sasuke's arm but was wasn't able to, and hasn't shown any sort of Yang heals since. It's clearly more then mere seals.

Sorry, but your wrong here my friend. Kaguya 'sensed' Naruto and Sasuke Yin and Yang seals special chakra locked inside of the seals, and noted that the Chakra was similar to Hagoromo's and Hamura's chakras.
And even after reaffirming to herself that Naruto and Sasuke were Indra and Ashura, she still correlated them with Hamura and Hagoromo.
And unless you have manga scans, not once did she think of them as reincarnations (Transmigrants) of Hamura and Hagoromo.

 

[KidGamer65]

They inherited the two halves of his power 'sigh'

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'Looking for stability, one god was divided into Yin and Yang, the action of the two opposing forces created all things in Nature.' The Manga has been drilling into us for ages now that the Sage's sons were both halves of his power, and that the two sons chakras and blood conjoining together will awaken the Rinnegan.

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1. That stone tablet tells the truth. Ashura has Yang while Indra has Yin. Does that mean that Indra's chakra reserve+Ashura's chakra reserve=Hagoromo's chakra reserve? Obviously not. They got their chakra through inheritance, and nothing more. Hagoromo took all his chakra, gave it to Naruto and Sasuke, thus he had none left. No such thing occurred with his sons, so there is no reason to believe that Indra and Ashura are one half of the sage's total power. That only means that they are half of him in the respect that Yin and Yang are halves of Yin-Yang, which represents Hagoromo.

2. Their chakra coming together says nothing about the amount of chakra they posses, so once again, you have no point.

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Ashura was the Sage's yang, and Indra the Sage's Yin, together, through brining the two opposite halves together, only than can the Rinnegan be obtained, because to awaken the Rinnegan you first need to awaken Hagoromo's chakra, which can only be done through having both halves of his split power.

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Once again. We are talking about amount. All you've done is show that their chakra put together equals his chakra type, not that they were born with half of his power each. Lol. The fact that Ashura started out as a weakling and the fact that Indra didn't have Rinnegan like Sasuke does only hurts your point even more.

-Hagoromo has two kids, they have Yin and Yang. Sharingan, Susanoo for Indra. Whatever that Avatar is for Ashura.
-Hagoromo gives half his chakra to Naruto, and the other half to Sasuke. Sasuke gets the Rinnegan, and Naruto gets Six Paths Sage Mode.

It's obvious who is literally half of his power here, and it's not the guys who don't even have their father's abilities.

Further drilling is that its been revealed the same thing happened with Kaguya.

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(Translation).
'Ever since "humans" were given form, they have fought each other and walked in a world of war. The earth was stained with blood, and as if it were absorbing that blood for nourishment, the Shinju took root in the earth. Eventually the Shinju bore a single fruit, and a certain clan came from another world seeking that fruit: the Otsutsuki clan. Kaguya, leader of the Otsutsuki, ate the fruit and became the progenitor of all chakra, and with her absolute power brought peace to the world in an instant.



After ending the turbulent era, she became known as the Rabbit Goddess and received the blessing of the people, giving birth to twins. But after that, Kaguya would occasionally use harsh means to rule the people as a dictator. The Byakugan, Sharingan, and Infinite Tsukuyomi - the people feared and respected the jutsu Kaguya wielded. Eventually, the "Rabbit Goddess" became known as a demon instead. And then, Kaguya became ruled by her desire to make all chakra her own.

To make all chakra one - Kaguya's desire eventually turned on Hagoromo and Hamura, her own twin sons with whom she had split her chakra. Kaguya formed a plan, and in order to take in all chakra, fused with the Shinju and battled against her twin sons.

The twins, assuming that the Juubi was a transformed Shinju attacking them in order to reclaim the chakra that was taken from it, faced off against it. And after a fierce battle, they activated Rikudou Chibaku Tensei. They turned it into the moon and sealed it away.'

Its been noted several times that when an Otsutsuki has children, their Chakra is split in halves between those children, and those children inherit those 'halves.'

Too bad that this is Kaguya, not Hagoromo. Too bad that the last line is an unsubstantiated claim. The same thing happening for Hagoromo because it happened to Kaguya is an assertion with no conclusive evidence backing it. It's been noted once that Kaguya's chakra was split between her sons. Hagoromo never said the same occurred with his sons.

And even then. "Split" doesn't specifically refer to her full chakra being split in half and given to her sons. It can be in half, it can be into parts.

1. If she had given them all her chakra, she'd have no chakra of her own. Hagoromo was put in the same condition when he gave Naruto and Sasuke his chakra, thus he needed help from the Kage to summon them back from the alternate dimension.

2. Naruto and Sasuke together have the same amount of chakra Hagoromo himself has. They are not half of Kaguya's total chakra considering she herself called them mere fragments.

Yes it is. The two seals were something only Hagoromo and Hamura had, the two halves of Kaguya, Naruto and Sasuke having them means that they are the only ones who could possibly gain power on their level.

No, it's not. Lol. What in the world are you talking about? Can we stick to things that were actually stated in the Manga? Manga never implied or stated that the seals mean only Naruto and Sasuke can reach their level, and even if it did, that doesn't prove that it grants them anything that'd make them more powerful. It only grants the sealing jutsu.

When Naruto lost his Yang seal he lost the ability to heal, when he had it he could have easily regenerated his and Sasuke's arm but was wasn't able to, and hasn't shown any sort of Yang heals since. It's clearly more then mere seals.

Thats. Not. Strength. Lol. That is an ability. Now tell me, who is stronger, Naruto w/ his healing ability or Naruto w/o his healing ability? Would this healing ability have let him beat Sasuke, who he was dead even with? If not, then I don't want to see you saying that the seals grant them extra power, cause it doesn't.

Oh dear, I'm surprised and disappointed, your wrong here my friend. Kaguya 'sensed' Naruto and Sasuke Yin and Yang seals special chakra locked inside of the seals, and noted that the Chakra was similar to Hagoromo's and Hamura's chakras.
And even after reaffirming to herself that Naruto and Sasuke were Indra and Ashura, she still correlated them with Hamura and Hagoromo.
And unless you have manga scans, not once did she think of them as reincarnations (Transmigrants) of Hamura and Hagoromo.

I suggest we re-read the Manga.

1. She senses the seals physical appearance.

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2. She then says that they must be Hagoromo and Hamura's... Now lets stop for a minute. Please tell me how the term chakra has any relation to what Kaguya says here. It'd be grammatically incorrect for her to say "chakra" or anything related to what you are saying after saying "Hagoromo and Hamura's".

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3. And then she states "No, Indra and Ashura". What is their relation to Indra and Ashura? What obvious answer connects with her original assumption that they are "Hagoromo and Hamura's"? Oh wait.....

It's reincarnation. She thought that they were "Hagoromo and Hamura's reincarnations" when she felt the seals, but then she activated Byakugan, saw their chakra, and knew that they were Indra and Ashura's reincarnations and that Hagoromo merely gave them those sealing techniques.

Now. Where does she say that the charka locked inside the seals was related to Hagoromo and Hamura's? Lol, never. Never even implied it. She stated that they are Indra and Ashura and then stated that Hagoromo gave them those jutsu. The only chakra they have is their original incarnation's, and Hagoromo's.

The fact that Hagoromo is the original wielder of both seals only hurts your case even more, cause then there'd be no reason for them to have Hamura's chakra inside of them. How would they even have Hamura's chakra inside them when Hagoromo gave them the sealing jutsu and his chakra. Hamura had nothing to do with the interaction.

 

[Lord of Akatsuki]

1. That stone tablet tells the truth. Ashura has Yang while Indra has Yin. Does that mean that Indra's chakra reserve+Ashura's chakra reserve=Hagoromo's chakra reserve? Obviously not. They got their chakra through inheritance, and nothing more. Hagoromo took all his chakra, gave it to Naruto and Sasuke, thus he had none left. No such thing occurred with his sons, so there is no reason to believe that Indra and Ashura are one half of the sage's total power. That only means that they are half of him in the respect that Yin and Yang are halves of Yin-Yang, which represents Hagoromo.

2. Their chakra coming together says nothing about the amount of chakra they posses, so once again, you have no point.



Once again. We are talking about amount. All you've done is show that their chakra put together equals his chakra type, not that they were born with half of his power each. Lol. The fact that Ashura started out as a weakling and the fact that Indra didn't have Rinnegan like Sasuke does only hurts your point even more.

-Hagoromo has two kids, they have Yin and Yang. Sharingan, Susanoo for Indra. Whatever that Avatar is for Ashura.
-Hagoromo gives half his chakra to Naruto, and the other half to Sasuke. Sasuke gets the Rinnegan, and Naruto gets Six Paths Sage Mode.

It's obvious who is literally half of his power here, and it's not the guys who don't even have their father's abilities.

There is a difference between inheriting and granting someone your chakra, Ashura and Indra inherited half of Hagoromo's chakra, it was 'divided into two,' Hagoromo however didn't lose any of his own Chakra because they inherited it, instead of him giving it.
Oh boy 'Faceplam,' Zzz
How many times does this have to drilled into peoples skulls, Sasuke's Rinnegan isn't a half of the Sage's power, its both powers. Sasuke has Hashirama's cells within him, Hagoromo stated he gave Sasuke more power than Indra had. Hagoromo's Chakra reacted to the small amount of Sasuke's Yang cells and, together with Sasuke Yin, granted him the Rinnegan in one eye.
Because he didn't have all of the Sage's Yang, Sasuke only had it in one eye, but it isn't a showcase of one half of the Sage's power but both.

Hagoromo has two kids, one has MS with Rikudou chakra and a Perfect Susano that seems to dwarf any of the other ones, the other has RSM and Gudoudama's along with BAM (Battle Avatar Mode).

Hagoromo gifts to Naruto and Sasuke power above that of his sons, granting them similar powers to himself and his brother. One has Yin, and a small amount of Hashirama (Ashura) cells that react to Sage's chakra and gives him Rinnegan and the Six Paths Yin chakra. The other has Yang, and Nine Tailed beats, RSM, and the Gudoudama's because of his mixture of Yin within him, and later his own BAM (which seems weaker than Ashura's).

Ashura, as all those who inherit Yang unless your Hashirama, had to go through the usual hard work to obtain his Yang powers. How can Indra have the Rinnegan if he doesn't have his brothers Yang chakra? It's really only hurting your arguments since your blatantly ignoring several canon elements to the Sage's powers.
Also, how can one have RSM without the Sage's Yang half?

Too bad that this is Kaguya, not Hagoromo. Too bad that the last line is an unsubstantiated claim. The same thing happening for Hagoromo because it happened to Kaguya is an assertion with no conclusive evidence backing it. It's been noted once that Kaguya's chakra was split between her sons. Hagoromo never said the same occurred with his sons.

And even then. "Split" doesn't specifically refer to her full chakra being split in half and given to her sons. It can be in half, it can be into parts.

1. If she had given them all her chakra, she'd have no chakra of her own. Hagoromo was put in the same condition when he gave Naruto and Sasuke his chakra, thus he needed help from the Kage to summon them back from the alternate dimension.

2. Naruto and Sasuke together have the same amount of chakra Hagoromo himself has. They are not half of Kaguya's total chakra considering she herself called them mere fragments.

No, its not unsubstantiated. Its been noted plenty of times that Hagoromo's power was divided/split between his children.

Another term good friend, would be dispersed/halved. And no, the Databook was quite literal, her chakra was split/dispersed in half. She didn't lose any chakra either.

Yet again, how the **** is granting equating the same as inheriting? Seriously, from my end it sounds like your grasping at straws and purposely ignoring the difference. Hagoromo was put in that condition because he actually directly gave them his powers instead of them outright inheriting it.

Never said they were, merely that they are the closet things to her sons within the Transmigration line. And also, it should be noted that both Naruto and Sasuke actually have more chakra than half of Hagoromo, half of Hagoromo's power went to them yes, but it merely added onto what they already had.

It should be noted that Hagoromo in his younger days only had the Yang seal and that it was Hamura with the Yin seal. Strangely though, he didn't gain Hamura's KGs when he got the Yin seal.
Never said they were half of Kaguya, merely that they were close enough to Hamura and Hagoromo.

No, it's not. Lol. What in the world are you talking about? Can we stick to things that were actually stated in the Manga? Manga never implied or stated that the seals mean only Naruto and Sasuke can reach their level, and even if it did, that doesn't prove that it grants them anything that'd make them more powerful. It only grants the sealing jutsu.


Thats. Not. Strength. Lol. That is an ability. Now tell me, who is stronger, Naruto w/ his healing ability or Naruto w/o his healing ability? Would this healing ability have let him beat Sasuke, who he was dead even with? If not, then I don't want to see you saying that the seals grant them extra power, cause it doesn't.

Dear me, one moment your saying all it grants is sealing jutsu now your saying also healing ability??? Would you please get of your high horse, because your logic is pretty bad here right now.

What I'm saying is that the seals don't automatically make them stronger, but that it's a symbolisation that they have the potential to be as strong if not stronger.
Think of it this way, Ashura and Indra didn't have the seals, but Hamura and Hagoromo did, and Naruto and Sasuke, are gifted with those same seals. Now please do tell what that symbolises? (Should be obvious).

Naruto was stronger than Sasuke dude, Sasuke only barely managed to stalemate Naruto after taking all of the tailed beasts from him besides Kurama.

I suggest we re-read the Manga.

1. She senses the seals physical appearance.

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2. She then says that they must be Hagoromo and Hamura's... Now lets stop for a minute. Please tell me how the term chakra has any relation to what Kaguya says here. It'd be grammatically incorrect for her to say "chakra" or anything related to what you are saying after saying "Hagoromo and Hamura's".

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3. And then she states "No, Indra and Ashura". What is their relation to Indra and Ashura? What obvious answer connects with her original assumption that they are "Hagoromo and Hamura's"? Oh wait.....

It's reincarnation. She thought that they were "Hagoromo and Hamura's reincarnations" when she felt the seals, but then she activated Byakugan, saw their chakra, and knew that they were Indra and Ashura's reincarnations and that Hagoromo merely gave them those sealing techniques.

Now. Where does she say that the charka locked inside the seals was related to Hagoromo and Hamura's? Lol, never. Never even implied it. She stated that they are Indra and Ashura and then stated that Hagoromo gave them those jutsu. The only chakra they have is their original incarnation's, and Hagoromo's.

The fact that Hagoromo is the original wielder of both seals only hurts your case even more, cause then there'd be no reason for them to have Hamura's chakra inside of them. How would they even have Hamura's chakra inside them when Hagoromo gave them the sealing jutsu and his chakra. Hamura had nothing to do with the interaction.

[/QUOTE]


LOL Lol 'facepalm.' :xD: How do you 'sense' something's physical appearance?
That's one awesome ability right there....
She didn't see the seals at all, but she sensed the inherent chakra within them. Sasuke's Yin seals Yin chakra gave of a similar chakra signature to Hamura, whereas Naruto's Yang seals Yang chakra gave of a similar chakra signature to Yang Hagoromo.

I'm not even referring to that lol, however, if, for even a minute she mistook the seals chakra's for her sons, than when she says 'No, Indra and Ashura' its because she sensed their actual Yin and Yang chakra's that are the same as Indra and Ashura.
That's quite a lot of speculation and huge assumptions right there.

She didn't have to state it, she 'sensed' the seals, the only sensing ability that they have is the sensing of chakra.
You've misread it and me. She mistook Sasuke's Yin seals inherent chakra as being like Hamura's and Naruto's Yang seals inherent chakra as being like Yang Hagoromo's chakra.

Isn't it obvious? Sasuke's Yin seal is the exact same as Hamura's Yin seal. Note that Hagoromo didn't originally have the Yin seal and that he originally had the Yang seal.

 

[KidGamer65]

There is a difference between inheriting and granting someone your chakra, Ashura and Indra inherited half of Hagoromo's chakra, it was 'divided into two,' Hagoromo however didn't lose any of his own Chakra because they inherited it, instead of him giving it.

I already know the difference. Read before you reply. Whether or not it's inheritance or whether or not he gave it doesn't change the fact that the chakra came from somewhere. So implying that he passed down all his chakra to them is nonsensical. That simple. Inheritance or gifting. Doesn't change the fact that he is the source.

Or does the chakra come from the air? Lol

Oh boy 'Faceplam,' Zzz
How many times does this have to drilled into peoples skulls, Sasuke's Rinnegan isn't a half of the Sage's power, its both powers. Sasuke has Hashirama's cells within him, Hagoromo stated he gave Sasuke more power than Indra had. Hagoromo's Chakra reacted to the small amount of Sasuke's Yang cells and, together with Sasuke Yin, granted him the Rinnegan in one eye.
Because he didn't have all of the Sage's Yang, Sasuke only had it in one eye, but it isn't a showcase of one half of the Sage's power but both.

Once again. Read the manga.

1. Rinnegan is a half of the Sage's power when referring to his actual abilities. That's a fact and I suggest you drill that into your skull before you reply to me with more nonsense. Sage's Eyes=Rinnegan. Sage's Body=Six Paths Senjutsu/Six Paths Sage Mode. Naruto got the latter, Sasuke got the former. Rinnegan is only one half of the equation. That's why Madara needed Juubi and Rinnegan to reach Hagoromo's level, because each one is one half of the equation.

2. What you are saying doesn't even make sense. Read your own posts as well as the Manga. Indra+Ashura=Rinnegan. (Hagoromo) That means that Rinnegan is the power of Senju and Uchiha, thus the power of Hagoromo. How the hell can it be "both powers" in reference to Hagoromo when Hagoromo is only one man? What you should be saying is that Sasuke's Rinnegan isn't just Uchiha's power, it's both.

Rinnegan is both Uchiha and Senju, but still only half of Hagoromo's full power.

3. Hashirama doesn't keep Ashura's chakra after his transmigration ends. It goes to Naruto. Madara only kept his because he merged it with his own to create Hagoromo's chakra, which is what he kept. So no, Sasuke can't get Rinnegan like this. Then there's the possibility that he would've gotten a Double Rinnegan like Madara, who awakened his via Ashura and Indra's chakra. Then there's the fact that only Hagoromo's chakra is needed to get the Rinnegan, which is what Sasuke got.

Hagoromo has two kids, one has MS with Rikudou chakra and a Perfect Susano that seems to dwarf any of the other ones, the other has RSM and Gudoudama's along with BAM (Battle Avatar Mode).

Yes. We know. Not relevant. Though underlined is obviously false. If Ashura had RSM (The Mode Naruto got from Hagoromo), then you'd see his Gudo Dama around his body. He has neither.

Hagoromo gifts to Naruto and Sasuke power above that of his sons, granting them similar powers to himself and his brother. One has Yin, and a small amount of Hashirama (Ashura) cells that react to Sage's chakra and gives him Rinnegan and the Six Paths Yin chakra. The other has Yang, and Nine Tailed beats, RSM, and the Gudoudama's because of his mixture of Yin within him, and later his own BAM (which seems weaker than Ashura's).

Sasuke got Rinnegan and half of Hagoromo's power. Naruto got RSM and half of Hagoromo's power. Please tell me how that has anything to do with Hamura. Already addressed that Hashirama Rinnegan nonsense.

Though the bold is literally based off of nothing. It's pretty foolish to think that Ashura's mode is stronger when Naruto has half of Hagoromo's power AND power from the Nature Energy he absorbed. So even if I bought this "Indra and Ashura are half of Hagoromo's power" nonsense, this'd still make zero sense.

Ashura, as all those who inherit Yang unless your Hashirama, had to go through the usual hard work to obtain his Yang powers. How can Indra have the Rinnegan if he doesn't have his brothers Yang chakra? It's really only hurting your arguments since your blatantly ignoring several canon elements to the Sage's powers.
Also, how can one have RSM without the Sage's Yang half?

You only need Hagoromo's chakra to get the Rinnegan. Please read the Manga. Indra+Ashura is only one way to acquire Hagoromo's chakra. Sasuke got the chakra directly, thus got the Rinnegan along with it. He didn't awaken it on his own, obviously. Hagoromo's chakra being needed to react with Hashirama's power to create Rinnegan doesn't even make sense since the end product isn't needed to spark the reaction that creates the very same end product. Makes zero sense.

RSM has nothing to do with Yin and Yang.

No, its not unsubstantiated. Its been noted plenty of times that Hagoromo's power was divided/split between his children.

No, it's been noted that Indra got his strong chakra and his eye power, while Ashura got his physical energy and strong body. Nothing ever said that he split his own power between them evenly. Nothing at all. That's just you trying to make it seem like your interpretation was

Another term good friend, would be dispersed/halved. And no, the Databook was quite literal, her chakra was split/dispersed in half. She didn't lose any chakra either.

Amazing. DB says split. Nothing more. Please don't try and force your interpetation as if it's correct or even backed with evidence. Because it's not, in both cases. DB says split, and I've already presented the meaning of "split". Not interested in your opinion.

-Says she didn't lose chakra.
-Juubi (Kaguya) came to take the chakra it lost, back.

Lol.

Yet again, how the **** is granting equating the same as inheriting? Seriously, from my end it sounds like your grasping at straws and purposely ignoring the difference. Hagoromo was put in that condition because he actually directly gave them his powers instead of them outright inheriting it.

Already explained this above. Inheritance doesn't change the fact that it's coming from somewhere. Jesus ****ing Christ. Lol.

Never said they were, merely that they are the closet things to her sons within the Transmigration line. And also, it should be noted that both Naruto and Sasuke actually have more chakra than half of Hagoromo, half of Hagoromo's power went to them yes, but it merely added onto what they already had.

Naruto and Sasuke's base chakra reserves are insignificant compared to Hagoromo's halves, so they'd only have a little more than his full chakra reserve. OBVIOUSLY not enough to say that Hagoromo isn't a fragment of Kaguya when she clearly said that they were fragments of Kaguya.

It should be noted that Hagoromo in his younger days only had the Yang seal and that it was Hamura with the Yin seal.

Nope. Never stated. Hagoromo is the master of Yin-Yang. Hagoromo has shown to be able to transfer his sealing jutsu to others. He's the only one who possess it in the current time, which isn't possible if he isn't the original wielder. So no. They are his. Both of them. Draw the obvious conclusion that he gave his Yin power to Hamura to help him seal Kaguya.

Strangely though, he didn't gain Hamura's KGs when he got the Yin seal.

Hmmm, I wonder why?

Oh wait. Because Hamura doesn't have anything to do with the Yin Seal. Lmao. This isn't rocket science.

Never said they were half of Kaguya, merely that they were close enough to Hamura and Hagoromo.

You basically are saying that they are half of Kaguya by saying that Kaguya split her chakra in half and gave it to Hagoromo and Hamura. In fact, you are saying that they are more than half of Kaguya since it's Hagoromo+Naruto and Sasuke's reserves along with Kurama.

Lol. Yet Kaguya called them fragments. Do we have to go over what a fragment is?

Dear me, one moment your saying all it grants is sealing jutsu now your saying also healing ability??? Would you please get of your high horse, because your logic is pretty bad here right now.

Please read my posts before you respond so you don't look like a fool.

What I'm saying is that the seals don't automatically make them stronger, but that it's a symbolisation that they have the potential to be as strong if not stronger.

1. Then I don't care since my point is, they don't grant extra overall power.

2. That's just your opinion backed by literally nothing at all. So I don't even care in that regard either.

Think of it this way, Ashura and Indra didn't have the seals, but Hamura and Hagoromo did, and Naruto and Sasuke, are gifted with those same seals. Now please do tell what that symbolises? (Should be obvious).

It doesn't symbolize shit. You are trying to push whatever nonsense explanation you can find onto the argument and call it "symbolism". They have the seals because they were given the seals and the others were not. That simple. Don't try and make things seem more significance than they actually are.

Naruto was stronger than Sasuke dude, Sasuke only barely managed to stalemate Naruto after taking all of the tailed beasts from him besides Kurama.

Which means they tied. Which means they were equal. Sasuke w/ Bijuu=RSM Naruto. Case in point. Lol. I don't care about before nor do I care about who's stronger without things like the Bijuu.


[/QUOTE]


LOL Lol 'facepalm.' :xD: How do you 'sense' something's physical appearance?
That's one awesome ability right there....[/QUOTE]
Amazing. Read the manga before you reply to me again.

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Naruto has already shown that this is possible. My scan already shows the Sun and Moon seals' appearance, and then it shows Kaguya tossing them to the ground after viewing it. Though how she saw them doesn't matter to me nor is it relevant to the point.

She didn't see the seals at all, but she sensed the inherent chakra within them. Sasuke's Yin seals Yin chakra gave of a similar chakra signature to Hamura, whereas Naruto's Yang seals Yang chakra gave of a similar chakra signature to Yang Hagoromo.

Please stop pulling stuff out of your ass. That's how discussions go south. When one party starts to assume things for absolutely no reason whatsoever, with no proof backing up their claims.

I'm not even referring to that lol, however, if, for even a minute she mistook the seals chakra's for her sons, than when she says 'No, Indra and Ashura' its because she sensed their actual Yin and Yang chakra's that are the same as Indra and Ashura.

Are you kidding me? Are we this desperate to grasp onto this foolish point? Allow me to read the Manga to you, once again.

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She sees the seals, then she says "These two must be Hagoromo and Hamura's". "These two..." refers to Naruto and Sasuke in case that flew over your head the first time around. So tell me. How is she referring to seals here when she clearly referred to Naruto and Sasuke. She mistook them for being her son's reincarnations because they have the same sealing jutsu they used to seal her.

That's quite a lot of speculation and huge assumptions right there.

Pretty ironic coming from you. Lol. The guy who literally pulled a wall of text from his ass. Those aren't assumptions. Those are facts. That is me reading the Manga to you since you seem to be incapable of doing it yourself.

She didn't have to state it, she 'sensed' the seals, the only sensing ability that they have is the sensing of chakra.
You've misread it and me. She mistook Sasuke's Yin seals inherent chakra as being like Hamura's and Naruto's Yang seals inherent chakra as being like Yang Hagoromo's chakra.

No, she didn't. This doesn't even begin to make sense. First you are telling me she sensed their chakra, and mistook it to be Hamura's and Hagoromo's, but then realized that it was Indra and Ashura? Lol.

All 4 have completely different chakra signatures. You don't sense one chakra, and then mistake it to be another type of chakra when can already identify all 4 types of chakra. That's like Tobirama sensing Kurama's chakra, and briefly mistaking it to be Kyuubi's. If she sensed it from the start, then she wouldn't have assumed that they were Hagoromo and Hamura. She would've guessed correctly the first time.

Then there's the fact that she wouldn't have turned on her Byakugan to check if they were Hagoromo and Hamura or not if she had sensed the result, or sensed anything, beforehand.

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Obvious conclusion is obvious. She felt the seals by some unknown means, and then figured that they were her sons, then she actually checked with Byakugan and realized that they weren't.

Isn't it obvious? Sasuke's Yin seal is the exact same as Hamura's Yin seal. Note that Hagoromo didn't originally have the Yin seal and that he originally had the Yang seal.

Yin seal belonging to Hamura is nothing but an assumption with zero proof backing it. Hagoromo has both now, thus he is the original wielder. It's that simple. The notion that a seal that came from Hagoromo will have the chakra of Hamura in it is retarded in itself. The notion that Hamura's chakra is inside that seal when she CHECKED with her Byakugan and realized that HAGOROMO gave them those techniques and HAGOROMO alone, is retarded as well.

 

[Strict]

The gap between Naruto and Ashura is the same as between Sasuke and Indra. Indra had the MS, Sasuke the Rinnegan.

Though I wonder why Sasuke's strongest attack with the Bijuu chakra pumped into his Susanoo was "Indra's" arrow. Kishimoto's logic.

 

[Scryed]

I already know the difference. Read before you reply. Whether or not it's inheritance or whether or not he gave it doesn't change the fact that the chakra came from somewhere. So implying that he passed down all his chakra to them is nonsensical. That simple. Inheritance or gifting. Doesn't change the fact that he is the source.

Or does the chakra come from the air? Lol


Once again. Read the manga.

1. Rinnegan is a half of the Sage's power when referring to his actual abilities. That's a fact and I suggest you drill that into your skull before you reply to me with more nonsense. Sage's Eyes=Rinnegan. Sage's Body=Six Paths Senjutsu/Six Paths Sage Mode. Naruto got the latter, Sasuke got the former. Rinnegan is only one half of the equation. That's why Madara needed Juubi and Rinnegan to reach Hagoromo's level, because each one is one half of the equation.

2. What you are saying doesn't even make sense. Read your own posts as well as the Manga. Indra+Ashura=Rinnegan. (Hagoromo) That means that Rinnegan is the power of Senju and Uchiha, thus the power of Hagoromo. How the hell can it be "both powers" in reference to Hagoromo when Hagoromo is only one man? What you should be saying is that Sasuke's Rinnegan isn't just Uchiha's power, it's both.

Rinnegan is both Uchiha and Senju, but still only half of Hagoromo's full power.

3. Hashirama doesn't keep Ashura's chakra after his transmigration ends. It goes to Naruto. Madara only kept his because he merged it with his own to create Hagoromo's chakra, which is what he kept. So no, Sasuke can't get Rinnegan like this. Then there's the possibility that he would've gotten a Double Rinnegan like Madara, who awakened his via Ashura and Indra's chakra. Then there's the fact that only Hagoromo's chakra is needed to get the Rinnegan, which is what Sasuke got.



Yes. We know. Not relevant. Though underlined is obviously false. If Ashura had RSM (The Mode Naruto got from Hagoromo), then you'd see his Gudo Dama around his body. He has neither.



Sasuke got Rinnegan and half of Hagoromo's power. Naruto got RSM and half of Hagoromo's power. Please tell me how that has anything to do with Hamura. Already addressed that Hashirama Rinnegan nonsense.

Though the bold is literally based off of nothing. It's pretty foolish to think that Ashura's mode is stronger when Naruto has half of Hagoromo's power AND power from the Nature Energy he absorbed. So even if I bought this "Indra and Ashura are half of Hagoromo's power" nonsense, this'd still make zero sense.



You only need Hagoromo's chakra to get the Rinnegan. Please read the Manga. Indra+Ashura is only one way to acquire Hagoromo's chakra. Sasuke got the chakra directly, thus got the Rinnegan along with it. He didn't awaken it on his own, obviously. Hagoromo's chakra being needed to react with Hashirama's power to create Rinnegan doesn't even make sense since the end product isn't needed to spark the reaction that creates the very same end product. Makes zero sense.

RSM has nothing to do with Yin and Yang.








No, it's been noted that Indra got his strong chakra and his eye power, while Ashura got his physical energy and strong body. Nothing ever said that he split his own power between them evenly. Nothing at all. That's just you trying to make it seem like your interpretation was



Amazing. DB says split. Nothing more. Please don't try and force your interpetation as if it's correct or even backed with evidence. Because it's not, in both cases. DB says split, and I've already presented the meaning of "split". Not interested in your opinion.

-Says she didn't lose chakra.
-Juubi (Kaguya) came to take the chakra it lost, back.

Lol.



Already explained this above. Inheritance doesn't change the fact that it's coming from somewhere. Jesus ****ing Christ. Lol.


Naruto and Sasuke's base chakra reserves are insignificant compared to Hagoromo's halves, so they'd only have a little more than his full chakra reserve. OBVIOUSLY not enough to say that Hagoromo isn't a fragment of Kaguya when she clearly said that they were fragments of Kaguya.




Nope. Never stated. Hagoromo is the master of Yin-Yang. Hagoromo has shown to be able to transfer his sealing jutsu to others. He's the only one who possess it in the current time, which isn't possible if he isn't the original wielder. So no. They are his. Both of them. Draw the obvious conclusion that he gave his Yin power to Hamura to help him seal Kaguya.

Hmmm, I wonder why?

Oh wait. Because Hamura doesn't have anything to do with the Yin Seal. Lmao. This isn't rocket science.



You basically are saying that they are half of Kaguya by saying that Kaguya split her chakra in half and gave it to Hagoromo and Hamura. In fact, you are saying that they are more than half of Kaguya since it's Hagoromo+Naruto and Sasuke's reserves along with Kurama.

Lol. Yet Kaguya called them fragments. Do we have to go over what a fragment is?





Please read my posts before you respond so you don't look like a fool.


1. Then I don't care since my point is, they don't grant extra overall power.

2. That's just your opinion backed by literally nothing at all. So I don't even care in that regard either.



It doesn't symbolize shit. You are trying to push whatever nonsense explanation you can find onto the argument and call it "symbolism". They have the seals because they were given the seals and the others were not. That simple. Don't try and make things seem more significance than they actually are.



Which means they tied. Which means they were equal. Sasuke w/ Bijuu=RSM Naruto. Case in point. Lol. I don't care about before nor do I care about who's stronger without things like the Bijuu.

LOL Lol 'facepalm.' :xD: How do you 'sense' something's physical appearance?
That's one awesome ability right there....[/QUOTE]
Amazing. Read the manga before you reply to me again.

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Naruto has already shown that this is possible. My scan already shows the Sun and Moon seals' appearance, and then it shows Kaguya tossing them to the ground after viewing it. Though how she saw them doesn't matter to me nor is it relevant to the point.




Please stop pulling stuff out of your ass. That's how discussions go south. When one party starts to assume things for absolutely no reason whatsoever, with no proof backing up their claims.


Are you kidding me? Are we this desperate to grasp onto this foolish point? Allow me to read the Manga to you, once again.

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She sees the seals, then she says "These two must be Hagoromo and Hamura's". "These two..." refers to Naruto and Sasuke in case that flew over your head the first time around. So tell me. How is she referring to seals here when she clearly referred to Naruto and Sasuke. She mistook them for being her son's reincarnations because they have the same sealing jutsu they used to seal her.




Pretty ironic coming from you. Lol. The guy who literally pulled a wall of text from his ass. Those aren't assumptions. Those are facts. That is me reading the Manga to you since you seem to be incapable of doing it yourself.





No, she didn't. This doesn't even begin to make sense. First you are telling me she sensed their chakra, and mistook it to be Hamura's and Hagoromo's, but then realized that it was Indra and Ashura? Lol.

All 4 have completely different chakra signatures. You don't sense one chakra, and then mistake it to be another type of chakra when can already identify all 4 types of chakra. That's like Tobirama sensing Kurama's chakra, and briefly mistaking it to be Kyuubi's. If she sensed it from the start, then she wouldn't have assumed that they were Hagoromo and Hamura. She would've guessed correctly the first time.

Then there's the fact that she wouldn't have turned on her Byakugan to check if they were Hagoromo and Hamura or not if she had sensed the result, or sensed anything, beforehand.

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Obvious conclusion is obvious. She felt the seals by some unknown means, and then figured that they were her sons, then she actually checked with Byakugan and realized that they weren't.



Yin seal belonging to Hamura is nothing but an assumption with zero proof backing it. Hagoromo has both now, thus he is the original wielder. It's that simple. The notion that a seal that came from Hagoromo will have the chakra of Hamura in it is retarded in itself. The notion that Hamura's chakra is inside that seal when she CHECKED with her Byakugan and realized that HAGOROMO gave them those techniques and HAGOROMO alone, is retarded as well.[/QUOTE]

Aren't those Big Black Spheres wielded by Ashura's avatar Gudoudamas?

I imagined Ashura had a weaker version of Hagoromo's RSM because of those Black Spheres that I thought were Gudoudama.

 

[Scryed]

The gap between Naruto and Ashura is the same as between Sasuke and Indra. Indra had the MS, Sasuke the Rinnegan.

Though I wonder why Sasuke's strongest attack with the Bijuu chakra pumped into his Susanoo was "Indra's" arrow. Kishimoto's logic.

Maybe Indra had it but on a smaller scale.

Idk really but that's my guess.

 

[KidGamer65]

Aren't those Big Black Spheres wielded by Ashura's avatar Gudoudamas?

I imagined Ashura had a weaker version of Hagoromo's RSM because of those Black Spheres that I thought were Gudoudama.

Probably, but that doesn't mean that he had RSM. Obito, Hamura, and Kaguya don't have RSM, yet they can use the Gudo Dama.

 

[Scryed]

Probably, but that doesn't mean that he had RSM. Obito, Hamura, and Kaguya don't have RSM, yet they can use the Gudo Dama.

Ah that's true.

Perhaps when his chakra blossomed, the power that emerged was that Asura Avatar. While with the Rikudou chakra he inherited from Hagoromo, he might've been able to use Gudodama along with that avatar to match Indra's PS.

 

[KidGamer65]

Ah that's true.

Perhaps when his chakra blossomed, the power that emerged was that Asura Avatar. While with the Rikudou chakra he inherited from Hagoromo, he might've been able to use Gudodama along with that avatar to match Indra's PS.

That's exactly what I think happened.

 

[Lord of Akatsuki]

I already know the difference. Read before you reply. Whether or not it's inheritance or whether or not he gave it doesn't change the fact that the chakra came from somewhere. So implying that he passed down all his chakra to them is nonsensical. That simple. Inheritance or gifting. Doesn't change the fact that he is the source.

Or does the chakra come from the air? Lol

How does someone inheriting chakra from you mean you'll lose your chakra? Lol.

Once again. Read the manga.

1. Rinnegan is a half of the Sage's power when referring to his actual abilities. That's a fact and I suggest you drill that into your skull before you reply to me with more nonsense. Sage's Eyes=Rinnegan. Sage's Body=Six Paths Senjutsu/Six Paths Sage Mode. Naruto got the latter, Sasuke got the former. Rinnegan is only one half of the equation. That's why Madara needed Juubi and Rinnegan to reach Hagoromo's level, because each one is one half of the equation.

2. What you are saying doesn't even make sense. Read your own posts as well as the Manga. Indra+Ashura=Rinnegan. (Hagoromo) That means that Rinnegan is the power of Senju and Uchiha, thus the power of Hagoromo. How the hell can it be "both powers" in reference to Hagoromo when Hagoromo is only one man? What you should be saying is that Sasuke's Rinnegan isn't just Uchiha's power, it's both.

Rinnegan is both Uchiha and Senju, but still only half of Hagoromo's full power.

3. Hashirama doesn't keep Ashura's chakra after his transmigration ends. It goes to Naruto. Madara only kept his because he merged it with his own to create Hagoromo's chakra, which is what he kept. So no, Sasuke can't get Rinnegan like this. Then there's the possibility that he would've gotten a Double Rinnegan like Madara, who awakened his via Ashura and Indra's chakra. Then there's the fact that only Hagoromo's chakra is needed to get the Rinnegan, which is what Sasuke got.

1. Sage's Eyes and Body forms the Rinnegan, the Rinnegan is both Yin and Yang. Its formed from the formation of both the body and eye powers. Its both powers (besides RSM).


2. Indra and Ashura were the original forms of the Senju Uzumaki and Uchiha. Their power was greater than all those that came after till Naruto and Sasuke. Its both powers because it can only form from Yin and Yang.

3. Dude, if that was true, than why did Hashirama's cells still have Ashura's chakra in it? That's why his DNA was special in the first place. It's why he even has wood release. Or Sasuke had less Hashirama DNA than Madara did, thus why it only formed in one eye when it reacted to Hagoromo's chakra.
Dude, both halves of Hagoromo's chakra is what is needed, Hagoromo gave both Naruto and Sasuke just one half of his actual chakra (Yin and Yang).

Yes. We know. Not relevant. Though underlined is obviously false. If Ashura had RSM (The Mode Naruto got from Hagoromo), then you'd see his Gudo Dama around his body. He has neither.

Sasuke got Rinnegan and half of Hagoromo's power. Naruto got RSM and half of Hagoromo's power. Please tell me how that has anything to do with Hamura. Already addressed that Hashirama Rinnegan nonsense.

Though the bold is literally based off of nothing. It's pretty foolish to think that Ashura's mode is stronger when Naruto has half of Hagoromo's power AND power from the Nature Energy he absorbed. So even if I bought this "Indra and Ashura are half of Hagoromo's power" nonsense, this'd still make zero sense.

Yes.
No the underlined isn't false. Ashura had the same chakra mode as Narutp, and also the battle avatar which is formed from RSM (Or a Tailed Beast).

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RSM is part of the Yang power of the Sage, Ashura inherited that power, RSM is his birthright.

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I'm pretty sure those are Gudoudama's in his ****ing BAMs hands.
It's been shown that Gudoudama don't always hover around the target and that they can hold them. That's exactly what Ashura was doing, his BAM was holding, and probably launching the Gudoudama's at Indra. Its why it looked like he was juggling them.

Hamura and Hagoromo had both seals, that's the connection between them, jeez man, I think your going a little too on the defensive here.

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See the difference? Ashura's BAM looks more stabilised than Naruto's does.
Naruto's obviously has more chakra, but it doesn't look as 'complete' as Ashura's does. It's yet again, probably because Ashura had his longer.

You only need Hagoromo's chakra to get the Rinnegan. Please read the Manga. Indra+Ashura is only one way to acquire Hagoromo's chakra. Sasuke got the chakra directly, thus got the Rinnegan along with it. He didn't awaken it on his own, obviously. Hagoromo's chakra being needed to react with Hashirama's power to create Rinnegan doesn't even make sense since the end product isn't needed to spark the reaction that creates the very same end product. Makes zero sense.

RSM has nothing to do with Yin and Yang.

1. Yes, you need both Hagoromo's Yin and Yang chakra to get the Rinnegan, Hagoromo split his two chakra's between Naruto and Sasuke remember.



2. Lol. Talk about changing idea's on things.

Sage's Body=Six Paths Senjutsu/Six Paths Sage Mode.

Yin=Eyes, Yang=Body.
RSM is a Yang power, Sage Mode is inherently a Yang (body) power. It has everything to do with Yang.

No, it's been noted that Indra got his strong chakra and his eye power, while Ashura got his physical energy and strong body. Nothing ever said that he split his own power between them evenly. Nothing at all. That's just you trying to make it seem like your interpretation was

My interpretation? Oh right, than I guess all those other people who thinks the same as I don't exist or its just our interpretation. Yet again, you say someone has an interpretation when you also have an interpretation.
No, its noted Indra got his spiritual chakra's and his 'eyes (degraded as they were)' that was his Yin. Ashura got his physical chakra and strong body, which was his Yang power.

Amazing. DB says split. Nothing more. Please don't try and force your interpetation as if it's correct or even backed with evidence. Because it's not, in both cases. DB says split, and I've already presented the meaning of "split". Not interested in your opinion.

-Says she didn't lose chakra.
-Juubi (Kaguya) came to take the chakra it lost, back.

Lol.

Yes, but another translation is 'dispersed.'
This time its not an interpretation my friend.

Yeah, your right, she did lose chakra, kinda explains why she lost to Hagoromo and Hamura.

Already explained this above. Inheritance doesn't change the fact that it's coming from somewhere. Jesus ****ing Christ. Lol.


Naruto and Sasuke's base chakra reserves are insignificant compared to Hagoromo's halves, so they'd only have a little more than his full chakra reserve. OBVIOUSLY not enough to say that Hagoromo isn't a fragment of Kaguya when she clearly said that they were fragments of Kaguya.

You have yet to explain how inheriting chakra equates losing chakra. And don't say bold please, at least when your debating against me and I have to reply to that.

I never said they weren't anything but fragments, I don't know why you seem to think I'm saying Naruto and Sasuke are equal to Hamura and Hagoromo when I never said such a thing, just that they have the potential to be as strong.

Nope. Never stated. Hagoromo is the master of Yin-Yang. Hagoromo has shown to be able to transfer his sealing jutsu to others. He's the only one who possess it in the current time, which isn't possible if he isn't the original wielder. So no. They are his. Both of them. Draw the obvious conclusion that he gave his Yin power to Hamura to help him seal Kaguya.

Hagoromo was specifically shown with only one seal. Hamura had the other seal.
Why would Hagoromo transfer his seal over to Hamura when he can use them both himself? That's the shittiest logic I've ever heard.
Hmmm, I wonder why?

Unless Hamura gave him his seal or Hagoromo got it from the Juubi, just because he has them both now doesn't mean he had them both back then, not only that, but he doesn't need to be the original wielder of both to have them. What the **** is that logic of yours?

Oh, and I can do it to. Manga scans that Hagoromo had both and gave them to Hamura otherwise it never happened.

Oh wait. Because Hamura doesn't have anything to do with the Yin Seal. Lmao. This isn't rocket science.

He has everything to do with it since he had the Yin seal.

Hamura was noted to have inherited his mothers 'powerful' chakra, that is usually a dead ringer for Yin powers brah.

You basically are saying that they are half of Kaguya by saying that Kaguya split her chakra in half and gave it to Hagoromo and Hamura. In fact, you are saying that they are more than half of Kaguya since it's Hagoromo+Naruto and Sasuke's reserves along with Kurama.

Lol. Yet Kaguya called them fragments. Do we have to go over what a fragment is?

Nope, never said that, it didn't happen brah. They are both weaker than Hagoromo alone, and even when together Hagoromo could probably beat them to the curb.

Yes, I do know what it means, your the only one that is being ridiculous here, stop wasting my time and misinterpreting and twisting my words, because I have little time as it is to debate.

Please read my posts before you respond so you don't look like a fool.


1. Then I don't care since my point is, they don't grant extra overall power.

2. That's just your opinion backed by literally nothing at all. So I don't even care in that regard either.

Hmm, right....

No, it's not. . What in the world are you talking about? Can we stick to things that were actually stated in the Manga? Manga never implied or stated that the seals mean only Naruto and Sasuke can reach their level, and even if it did, that doesn't prove that it grants them anything that'd make them more powerful. It only grants the sealing jutsu.


Thats. Not. Strength. . That is an ability. Now tell me, who is stronger, Naruto w/ his healing ability or Naruto w/o his healing ability? Would this healing ability have let him beat Sasuke, who he was dead even with? If not, then I don't want to see you saying that the seals grant them extra power, cause it doesn't.

You clearly said right there that the seals only grant a sealing jutsu, but in the next paragraph admitted that it also grants a healing ability.
That logic of yours.

1. ****, I never said they did, talk about overusing a twisted form of my words.

2. Um, okay.................. :Omg:

It doesn't symbolize shit. You are trying to push whatever nonsense explanation you can find onto the argument and call it "symbolism". They have the seals because they were given the seals and the others were not. That simple. Don't try and make things seem more significance than they actually are.

I'm trying to push whatever nonsense explanation I can find onto my arguments?
Lol, okay brah, okay...
Right....

I think someone needs to chill out.

Which means they tied. Which means they were equal. Sasuke w/ Bijuu=RSM Naruto. Case in point. Lol. I don't care about before nor do I care about who's stronger without things like the Bijuu.

They never did, Naruto was nerfed and still won, Sasuke had to cheat and steal most of Naruto's power to even hope to go against him. And. He. Still. Lost.

Amazing. Read the manga before you reply to me again.

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Naruto has already shown that this is possible. My scan already shows the Sun and Moon seals' appearance, and then it shows Kaguya tossing them to the ground after viewing it. Though how she saw them doesn't matter to me nor is it relevant to the point.

Lol. Naruto never saw their appearance, he merely sensed who was who.
She senses the seals and goes bat shit crazy you mean. :heh:

Please stop pulling stuff out of your ass. That's how discussions go south. When one party starts to assume things for absolutely no reason whatsoever, with no proof backing up their claims.


Are you kidding me? Are we this desperate to grasp onto this foolish point? Allow me to read the Manga to you, once again.

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She sees the seals, then she says "These two must be Hagoromo and Hamura's". "These two..." refers to Naruto and Sasuke in case that flew over your head the first time around. So tell me. How is she referring to seals here when she clearly referred to Naruto and Sasuke. She mistook them for being her son's reincarnations because they have the same sealing jutsu they used to seal her.

Right, I have quite the pole up my ass that I need to pull out. I should do that in a moment....but I'll wait. =D
Dude, you've made your own assumptions as well, so get of your ****ing high horse.

Right, she senses the seals and thinks that they are Hamura and Hagoromo.
But than she checks again, and realises that Naruto and Sasuke's actual chakra (and not the seals) is Indra an Ashura's, that's all there is to it brah.

Pretty ironic coming from you. Lol. The guy who literally pulled a wall of text from his ass. Those aren't assumptions. Those are facts. That is me reading the Manga to you since you seem to be incapable of doing it yourself.

Right....

Oops, just checked, I actually have a wall along with that pole up my ass, I must be out of my mind or something.....

3. And then she states "No, Indra and Ashura". What is their relation to Indra and Ashura? What obvious answer connects with her original assumption that they are "Hagoromo and Hamura's"? Oh wait.....

It's reincarnation. She thought that they were "Hagoromo and Hamura's reincarnations" when she felt the seals, but then she activated Byakugan, saw their chakra, and knew that they were Indra and Ashura's reincarnations and that Hagoromo merely gave them those sealing techniques.

Right, the manga never stated that she thought they were transmigrants of Hagoromo and hamura, that is merely speculation brah (though a seemingly logical conclusion).
Anyway, you admitted that she 'felt' the seals, and thought they were Hagoromo and Hamura's whatever. But rechecked and saw that their chakra was Indra and Ashura's, its the same thing brah.

No, she didn't. This doesn't even begin to make sense. First you are telling me she sensed their chakra, and mistook it to be Hamura's and Hagoromo's, but then realized that it was Indra and Ashura? Lol.

All 4 have completely different chakra signatures. You don't sense one chakra, and then mistake it to be another type of chakra when can already identify all 4 types of chakra. That's like Tobirama sensing Kurama's chakra, and briefly mistaking it to be Kyuubi's. If she sensed it from the start, then she wouldn't have assumed that they were Hagoromo and Hamura. She would've guessed correctly the first time.

Then there's the fact that she wouldn't have turned on her Byakugan to check if they were Hagoromo and Hamura or not if she had sensed the result, or sensed anything, beforehand.

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Obvious conclusion is obvious. She felt the seals by some unknown means, and then figured that they were her sons, then she actually checked with Byakugan and realized that they weren't.

No, I said she sensed the seals and thought that they were 'Hagoromo and Hamura's' but rechecked and saw their actual chakra, which was Indra and Ashura's chara. It's so simple brah.

YES, dear ****ing hell, talk about misreading a post.


Right, talk about speculation.

That's what I've been saying all this ****ing time mate.

Yin seal belonging to Hamura is nothing but an assumption with zero proof backing it. Hagoromo has both now, thus he is the original wielder. It's that simple. The notion that a seal that came from Hagoromo will have the chakra of Hamura in it is retarded in itself. The notion that Hamura's chakra is inside that seal when she CHECKED with her Byakugan and realized that HAGOROMO gave them those techniques and HAGOROMO alone, is retarded as well.

Hagoromo was specifically shown with only one seal. Hamura had the other seal brah. Just because he has them both now doesn't mean that he had them both back then.
You are the retarded one.

Bold. There are many reasons as why that happened. don't draw any conclusions unless the manga is specific, but in this case is not, for all we know we might both be wrong.

 

[KidGamer65]

How does someone inheriting chakra from you mean you'll lose your chakra? Lol.

Your chakra is passed down them. If he passed down ALL his chakra to them, then he himself wouldn't have any chakra.

1. Sage's Eyes and Body forms the Rinnegan, the Rinnegan is both Yin and Yang. Its formed from the formation of both the body and eye powers. Its both powers (besides RSM).

Hagoromo's actual eye technique IS the Rinnegan. Hagoromo's body technique is SIX PATHS SENJUTSU. You need the power of Uchiha and Senju to get Rinnegan, sure. Does that change the fact that Rinnegan is the Sage's eye?

Or are you going to tell me that his Dojutsu is his body too? Lol.

2. Indra and Ashura were the original forms of the Senju Uzumaki and Uchiha. Their power was greater than all those that came after till Naruto and Sasuke. Its both powers because it can only form from Yin and Yang.

This doesn't even begin to refute anything I stated.

3. Dude, if that was true, than why did Hashirama's cells still have Ashura's chakra in it? That's why his DNA was special in the first place. It's why he even has wood release. Or Sasuke had less Hashirama DNA than Madara did, thus why it only formed in one eye when it reacted to Hagoromo's chakra.

They didn't. Lol. What in the world are you talking about? He stole Hashirama's cells and implanted them while Hashirama was still alive, thus his genetic material still carried his cells. Do we not know how transmigration/reincarnation works? Indra and Ashura go from person to person. They don't go to one person, but stay in the previous transmigrant.

1. Him being Ashura's reincarnation has nothing to do with his ability to use Mokuton unless you have some conclusive evidence. Not like it changes the fact that Ashura passed on to Naruto. So it doesn't really matter. Lol.

2. Bold is an assumption, one that is probably wrong given the amount of material Kabuto pumped into Sasuke's body, while Madara only had a small piece of Hashirama's arm.

3. There is no "react to his chakra". You can merge both Indra and Ashura's power together to awaken Hagoromo's chakra, which then brings out the Rinnegan...or Hagoromo can give you his chakra and the Rinnegan w/o having to go through those steps. The latter is what happened to Sasuke.

Dude, both halves of Hagoromo's chakra is what is needed, Hagoromo gave both Naruto and Sasuke just one half of his actual chakra (Yin and Yang).

No. Hagoromo's chakra is needed. That's all that was said. There are no "both halves". It's just his chakra. Don't twist what was stated in the Manga.

Yes.
No the underlined isn't false. Ashura had the same chakra mode as Narutp, and also the battle avatar which is formed from RSM (Or a Tailed Beast).

No. He had a similar one. Not the same one. Naruto's is a Bijuu. His isn't. Naruto mimicing the look with Shadow Clones doesn't make his the same as Ashura's.

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RSM is part of the Yang power of the Sage, Ashura inherited that power, RSM is his birthright.

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I'm pretty sure those are Gudoudama's in his ****ing BAMs hands.
It's been shown that Gudoudama don't always hover around the target and that they can hold them. That's exactly what Ashura was doing, his BAM was holding, and probably launching the Gudoudama's at Indra. Its why it looked like he was juggling them.

Except he doesn't have RSM. You don't need the Gudo Dama to use RSM. Did Obito have RSM when he fought against JJ Madara? Nope. Does Kaguya have RSM? Nope. Does Hamura have RSM? Nope. Yet they can all use the Gudo Dama. RSM being the Yang power of the Sage is nothing but an assumption on your part...especially since it has little to do with Yang.

Hamura and Hagoromo had both seals, that's the connection between them, jeez man, I think your going a little too on the defensive here.

No, that's no connection. Hagoromo is the original wielder. Hamura is only a borrowed wielder in the same sense Naruto and Sasuke are. Hamura has no connection to the seal. It's really that simple.

See the difference? Ashura's BAM looks more stabilised than Naruto's does.
Naruto's obviously has more chakra, but it doesn't look as 'complete' as Ashura's does. It's yet again, probably because Ashura had his longer.

Can we

1. Yes, you need both Hagoromo's Yin and Yang chakra to get the Rinnegan, Hagoromo split his two chakra's between Naruto and Sasuke remember.

He only split his chakra in half, and gave them the Yin and Yang Seals. He never even gave one his Yang Chakra and another his Yin Chakra nor does anything in the Manga actually state that he did. But even then, you only need Hagoromo's chakra to get the Rinnegan. That's what the Manga said. Take this "Yin and Yang" stuff out of here. Especially since Sasuke has the Rinnegan and he only got Hagoromo's chakra.

2. Lol. Talk about changing idea's on things.

And where did I say that it had anything to do with Yin or Yang?

Yin=Eyes, Yang=Body.
RSM is a Yang power, Sage Mode is inherently a Yang (body) power. It has everything to do with Yang.

No. Yin=Eyes and Yang=Body is only something fans came up with because of what was stated for Indra and Ashura. Sage Mode has nothing to do with Yang. No application of Yang is shown in any Sage Mode on it's own. Yang only represents the body in the sense that Ashura had strong physical energy, which actually does have a connection to Yang. Saying Sage Mode is a Yang power when no application of Yang has been shown with it is nothing but you reaching. Lol. Stop it.

My interpretation? Oh right, than I guess all those other people who thinks the same as I don't exist or its just our interpretation. Yet again, you say someone has an interpretation when you also have an interpretation.

Then you all can take your interpretations and get lost until you can actually support them with fact. Don't twist what was said to fit your argument.

No, its noted Indra got his spiritual chakra's and his 'eyes (degraded as they were)' that was his Yin. Ashura got his physical chakra and strong body, which was his Yang power.

And once again. Nothing in this statement proves that Hagoromo's full power was evenly denied.

Yes, but another translation is 'dispersed.'
This time its not an interpretation my friend.

Let's go over what "dispersed" means. Actually, let's start with the fact that you've yet to show me any translation that says "dispersed".

distribute or spread over a wide area.

The fact that a translation says "dispersed" is iffy enough as it is given the definition doesn't match with the context. Lol.

"storms can disperse seeds via high altitudes

If only this showed that disperse means split evenly. Lol.

You have yet to explain how inheriting chakra equates losing chakra. And don't say bold please, at least when your debating against me and I have to reply to that.

-Kaguya had two sons.
-She lost chakra.
-She tried to get it back.

We just went over this. Lol. Not to mention the chakra obviously comes from somewhere. It doesn't sprout from nowhere nor is it comparable to the passing down of genes, so please don't try it.

I never said they weren't anything but fragments, I don't know why you seem to think I'm saying Naruto and Sasuke are equal to Hamura and Hagoromo when I never said such a thing, just that they have the potential to be as strong.

Oh boy.

1. You say that Hagoromo and Hamura inherited half of Kaguya's chakra each.

2. Thus you are saying that Naruto and Sasuke, who possess Hagoromo's full chakra amount

Hagoromo was specifically shown with only one seal. Hamura had the other seal.

Already explained why Hagoromo only had the Yang Seal during his fight with Kaguya.

Why would Hagoromo transfer his seal over to Hamura when he can use them both himself? That's the shittiest logic I've ever heard.
Hmmm, I wonder why?

Lol, if you aren't smart enough to grasp the concepts "divide and conquer" or "two heads are better than one" then yes, you'll reply with something as idiotic as this right here. Fact of the matter remains. Hagoromo is the one with both now, thus he is obviously the original wielder.

Unless Hamura gave him his seal or Hagoromo got it from the Juubi, just because he has them both now doesn't mean he had them both back then, not only that, but he doesn't need to be the original wielder of both to have them. What the **** is that logic of yours?

That's exactly what it means. Now, let's dissect your idiotic line of thinking.

1. Don't mention the Juubi or anything else unless you actually have proof and not your nonsense interpretations.

2. Why the actual fuck would Hamura give his Yin Seal to Hagoromo for keeps after all the trouble was over? Lol. You shouldn't be talking about shitty logic here.

-Yin and Yang Seals have shown to return to their original wielder have they've been used.
-Hamura has no reason to give Hagoromo his power.
-Hagoromo is the one who mastered Yin and Yang and Yin-Yang, not Hamura.
-Kaguya saw the seals and instantly thought "Hagoromo". Not "Hagoromo and Hamura".

A child would be able to connect the very large and very obvious dots.

Oh, and I can do it to. Manga scans that Hagoromo had both and gave them to Hamura otherwise it never happened.

Don't need Manga Scans when I have plenty of factual Manga statements and showings that heavily imply he gave him his Yin power to help him fight. Though I'm ashamed of myself for thinking you were somewhat logical.

He has everything to do with it since he had the Yin seal.

Wasn't his.

Hamura was noted to have inherited his mothers 'powerful' chakra, that is usually a dead ringer for Yin powers brah.

And the same shit applies to Hagoromo. Powerful chakra doesn't always mean the person has an affinity for Yin. Hashirama's chakra is incredibly powerful. I guess he's Yin too. Lol.

Nope, never said that, it didn't happen brah. They are both weaker than Hagoromo alone, and even when together Hagoromo could probably beat them to the curb.

Are you even reading before you post? Or are you just throwing whatever garbage comes to mind without actually checking to see if it's applicable first?

1. Who the hell was talking about Naruto and Sasuke's individual strength?

2. Who the hell was talking about strength?

-You claimed that Hagoromo and Hamura are one half of Kaguya's CHAKRA AMOUNT.
-Naruto and Sasuke are Hagoromo's full CHAKRA AMOUNT.
-Thus you are saying that Naruto and Sasuke are half of Kaguya's CHAKRA AMOUNT.
-But Kaguya already called them fragments, so that's the end of the "Hagoromo and Kaguya passed their full chakra amount down to their kids" nonsense.

Yes, I do know what it means, your the only one that is being ridiculous here, stop wasting my time and misinterpreting and twisting my words, because I have little time as it is to debate.

You obviously don't. And you've seem to forgotten how to read, if you could ever read at all, given the unrelated replies to my posts. I'll dumb it down for you.

I'm trying to push whatever nonsense explanation I can find onto my arguments?
Lol, okay brah, okay...
Right....

I think someone needs to chill out.

What I need to do is stop debating with morons. Lol.

They never did, Naruto was nerfed and still won, Sasuke had to cheat and steal most of Naruto's power to even hope to go against him. And. He. Still. Lost.

Like I said, I need to stop debating with morons.

I don't give a shit if Naruto was nerfed as that wasn't my point. Lol. Read before you reply kiddo. I said that Naruto and Sasuke tied at the valley, so if Naruto was stronger than he was in the valley, he would've won. So I asked you if his Sun Mark would give him the power to win, a question that was instead answered by this nonsense.

Then there's the fact that Naruto wasn't nerfed, and whether or not Sasuke had to use the Bijuu is besides the fucking point. Lol. My God.

Lol. Naruto never saw their appearance, he merely sensed who was who.

Yet the Manga scan clearly shows their physical appearance. Lol. The denial of pure fact is golden. Yet he knew that they were on a battlefield, fighting a war. Something you can't tell by just feeling chakra signatures. Lol.

Right, I have quite the pole up my ass that I need to pull out. I should do that in a moment....but I'll wait. =D
Dude, you've made your own assumptions as well, so get of your ****ing high horse.

Here's the difference between us. I make assumptions with actual manga evidence behind them. You make shit up. Point, blank, period.

Right, she senses the seals and thinks that they are Hamura and Hagoromo.

She thinks that they are her sons because they have the same seals. Not because of any nonsense chakra link you are trying to make up here.

But than she checks again, and realises that Naruto and Sasuke's actual chakra (and not the seals) is Indra an Ashura's, that's all there is to it brah.

Yes, obviously. But whatever you are thinking is wrong. Hamura has nothing to do with the seals.

Right....

Oops, just checked, I actually have a wall along with that pole up my ass, I must be out of my mind or something.....

Right, the manga never stated that she thought they were transmigrants of Hagoromo and hamura, that is merely speculation brah (though a seemingly logical conclusion).

It's not speculation. I suggest we learn the difference between fact and speculation. The fact she confirms them to be Indra and Ashura means that the context was referring to transmigrants. So once again, you are wrong.

Anyway, you admitted that she 'felt' the seals, and thought they were Hagoromo and Hamura's whatever. But rechecked and saw that their chakra was Indra and Ashura's, its the same thing brah.

No, it's not, because she didn't feel Hamura and Hagoromo's chakra in the seals. She only felt the presence of the seals.

No, I said she sensed the seals and thought that they were 'Hagoromo and Hamura's' but rechecked and saw their actual chakra, which was Indra and Ashura's chara. It's so simple brah.



YES, dear ****ing hell, talk about misreading a post.


Right, talk about speculation.

That's what I've been saying all this ****ing time mate.

Wtf?

She didn't see the seals at all, but she sensed the inherent chakra within them. Sasuke's Yin seals Yin chakra gave of a similar chakra signature to Hamura, whereas Naruto's Yang seals Yang chakra gave of a similar chakra signature to Yang Hagoromo.

THIS. This is what you stated. Please don't try and twist it around to make it seem like you've been saying the same thing I've been saying the whole time. You were going on about some "Hamura's chakra in the seals" bullshit while I was actually reading the Manga, and pointed out that she never referred to the seals, she referred to them, as transmigrants. Lol.

Hagoromo was specifically shown with only one seal. Hamura had the other seal brah. Just because he has them both now doesn't mean that he had them both back then.
You are the retarded one.

Addressed so many times. All you can do is come back with the same retarded ass replies.

Bold. There are many reasons as why that happened. don't draw any conclusions unless the manga is specific, but in this case is not, for all we know we might both be wrong.

1. Didn't happen.
2. No proof that it happened.
3. Makes zero sense for it to have happened.
4. That's why it didn't happen.

I'm most likely right. You are definitely wrong no matter how you slice it.

 

[AnonymousShinobi]

Naruto shits on Ashura

 

[Lord of Akatsuki]

Your chakra is passed down them. If he passed down ALL his chakra to them, then he himself wouldn't have any chakra.

Chakra is naturally inherited through blood and DNA. Not only that, but since they both got something from him, doesn't that mean he would've gotten weaker? Yet it was never stated.
Unless you can provide proof besides with Kaguya's case, than it doesn't happen.

Hagoromo's actual eye technique IS the Rinnegan. Hagoromo's body technique is SIX PATHS SENJUTSU. You need the power of Uchiha and Senju to get Rinnegan, sure. Does that change the fact that Rinnegan is the Sage's eye?

Or are you going to tell me that his Dojutsu is his body too? Lol.

No, it doesn't, but it doesn't change the fact that to have the Sage's eye you must first have Yin and Yang chakra's melded together.
His Doujutsu is formed from the combination of both the body and the eyes.

This doesn't even begin to refute anything I stated.


They didn't. Lol. What in the world are you talking about? He stole Hashirama's cells and implanted them while Hashirama was still alive, thus his genetic material still carried his cells. Do we not know how transmigration/reincarnation works? Indra and Ashura go from person to person. They don't go to one person, but stay in the previous transmigrant.

1. Him being Ashura's reincarnation has nothing to do with his ability to use Mokuton unless you have some conclusive evidence. Not like it changes the fact that Ashura passed on to Naruto. So it doesn't really matter. Lol.

2. Bold is an assumption, one that is probably wrong given the amount of material Kabuto pumped into Sasuke's body, while Madara only had a small piece of Hashirama's arm.

3. There is no "react to his chakra". You can merge both Indra and Ashura's power together to awaken Hagoromo's chakra, which then brings out the Rinnegan...or Hagoromo can give you his chakra and the Rinnegan w/o having to go through those steps. The latter is what happened to Sasuke.

Hashirama alive or not, his cells still naturally carry Ashura's special properties. Otherwise Hashirama's cells would not be special anymore, yet they are. Yes, I do know how Transmigration works.
Doesn't change the fact that their Transmigrants still naturally have their chakra after death. Once chakra goes into someone's body, that becomes your own chakra, it stays in your DNA, even after Indra and Ashura's Chakra's leave and latch onto someone else.
If Ashura's chakra disappears from the cells upon the Transmigrant's death, then Madara wouldn't have gained the Rinnegan, remember, he implanted the cells, but it took years and years for them too work, up till the end of his natural life span, Hashiramam was already dead by than, which means that his cells would've been useless bro.

1. Wood release is connected to the Juubi/Shinju, through Yang release, Ashura inherited that same Yang release, became Hashirama's Transmigrant, Hashirama gained that inherent Yang release, he then has the power of Wood style, but is the only person to be able to use it. Why is that you might ask, its because Hashirama's wood release comes from his Yang powers as Ashura's Transmigrant.

2. Madara cultivated that small piece of Hashirama's DNA into larger amounts of Hasirama's DNA, or have you forgotten that?


3. Yeah, but Hagoromo only gave Sasuke his Yin chakra without any Yang, same goes for Naruto, genuis.

No. Hagoromo's chakra is needed. That's all that was said. There are no "both halves". It's just his chakra. Don't twist what was stated in the Manga.

Hagoromo's Yin and Yang is what's needed, you can't have it with just a single piece of his chakra.
There's no twisting here.

No. He had a similar one. Not the same one. Naruto's is a Bijuu. His isn't. Naruto mimicing the look with Shadow Clones doesn't make his the same as Ashura's.


Except he doesn't have RSM. You don't need the Gudo Dama to use RSM. Did Obito have RSM when he fought against JJ Madara? Nope. Does Kaguya have RSM? Nope. Does Hamura have RSM? Nope. Yet they can all use the Gudo Dama. RSM being the Yang power of the Sage is nothing but an assumption on your part...especially since it has little to do with Yang.

The Fourth Databook lists the Gudoudama's as only activating from having the Senjutsu of Six Paths ROFL.
Obito did have Senjutsu of Six Paths, not the same variant as Naruto, but he still had it. Obito obtained a small amount of Senjutsu of Six Paths power by stealing some of it from JJ Madara while he was trying to gain a piece of the One-Tails and Eight-Tails Chakra for Naruto.
You obtain the Senjutsu of Six Paths Technique upon becoming a Jin for the Juubi.
Kaguya did have Six Paths Sage Chakra.
Yes actually, Hamura does have Six Paths Sage Chakra, both he and Hagoromo naturally inherited it from Kaguya, not only that, but the Tenseigan also grants a Six Paths Sage Mode/Technique.
Its how they all have Gudoudama in the first place bro.

No, that's no connection. Hagoromo is the original wielder. Hamura is only a borrowed wielder in the same sense Naruto and Sasuke are. Hamura has no connection to the seal. It's really that simple.

No, Hamura is the actual wielder of the Six Paths Yin chakra, its his power.

Can we



He only split his chakra in half, and gave them the Yin and Yang Seals. He never even gave one his Yang Chakra and another his Yin Chakra nor does anything in the Manga actually state that he did. But even then, you only need Hagoromo's chakra to get the Rinnegan. That's what the Manga said. Take this "Yin and Yang" stuff out of here. Especially since Sasuke has the Rinnegan and he only got Hagoromo's chakra.

Can we what? :hmm:


Nah uh man, he gave Sasuke his Six Paths Yin chakra and Naruto his Six Paths Yang chakra, not both, doesn't work like that. You need both Six Paths Yin and Six Paths Yang chakra for the Rinnegan, not one.
Sasuke has both Indra and Ashura chakra, which reacted to Hagoromo's Six Paths Yin chakra. That's all there is to it.

And where did I say that it had anything to do with Yin or Yang?



No. Yin=Eyes and Yang=Body is only something fans came up with because of what was stated for Indra and Ashura. Sage Mode has nothing to do with Yang. No application of Yang is shown in any Sage Mode on it's own. Yang only represents the body in the sense that Ashura had strong physical energy, which actually does have a connection to Yang. Saying Sage Mode is a Yang power when no application of Yang has been shown with it is nothing but you reaching. Lol. Stop it.

No bro, its not a fan-made thing, Yin and Yang is indeed the eyes and the body. Yang is the physical chakra's life force and vitality. Yin is the mental energies, strong and powerful chakra's.
Sage mode can only be used if you have a strong body along with a huge amount of chakra, naturally, its Yang in nature. Life force, natural chakra, its all connected.

Then you all can take your interpretations and get lost until you can actually support them with fact. Don't twist what was said to fit your argument.



And once again. Nothing in this statement proves that Hagoromo's full power was evenly denied.

Sure, okay.

Evenly denied? How is power evenly denied?

Let's go over what "dispersed" means. Actually, let's start with the fact that you've yet to show me any translation that says "dispersed".

The fact that a translation says "dispersed" is iffy enough as it is given the definition doesn't match with the context. Lol.


If only this showed that disperse means split evenly. Lol.

No, really, there was indeed another translation for that passage that used dispersed instead of split, I don't personally agree with the word usage. But it's true, not lying here.


Also, dispersed also means 'thin out or cause to thin out and disappear.' It is also connected to the word 'distribute.'
Think on that word for a minute, has it clicked yet? Kaguya's chakra went into her sons and disappeared didn't it?

-Kaguya had two sons.
-She lost chakra.
-She tried to get it back.

We just went over this. Lol. Not to mention the chakra obviously comes from somewhere. It doesn't sprout from nowhere nor is it comparable to the passing down of genes, so please don't try it.

I know that, I agreed with you, but that was only in her case, there is no other case of someone inheriting chakra and the parent losing their's.
Dude, chakra does pass down in your genes, cells and DNA. It is literately part of peoples blood. Its why Indra inherited his fathers strong/powerful chakra genes, his father didn't give him that now did he? No, Indra inherited that power through his genes, Ashura inherited his fathers life force, vitality, and physical chakra's through his genes and blood. It's that simple.

Oh boy.

1. You say that Hagoromo and Hamura inherited half of Kaguya's chakra each.

2. Thus you are saying that Naruto and Sasuke, who possess Hagoromo's full chakra amount

1. Yes, I did say that.

2. Amount what? You have a terrible habit of finishing your sentences early and leaving me trying to figure out what your saying.

Not only that, but remember, when Kaguya said their chakra's were fragments of her own? She was saying as individuals that Naruto's and Sasuke's were fragments, not when their chakra is together.

Already explained why Hagoromo only had the Yang Seal during his fight with Kaguya.


Lol, if you aren't smart enough to grasp the concepts "divide and conquer" or "two heads are better than one" then yes, you'll reply with something as idiotic as this right here. Fact of the matter remains. Hagoromo is the one with both now, thus he is obviously the original wielder.

Which you have no proof of.

Both Hagoromo and Hamura are masters of Yin and Yang release, its possible that they both have their own set of the seals.
Right, so just because someone has something now they are the original wielder? I guess Sasuke is the original wielder of the Rinnegan ROFL.

Wow, you resort to insults very easily don't you.
Maybe you should chill out a little mate.

That's exactly what it means. Now, let's dissect your idiotic line of thinking.

1. Don't mention the Juubi or anything else unless you actually have proof and not your nonsense interpretations.

2. Why the actual fuck would Hamura give his Yin Seal to Hagoromo for keeps after all the trouble was over? Lol. You shouldn't be talking about shitty logic here.

-Yin and Yang Seals have shown to return to their original wielder have they've been used.
-Hamura has no reason to give Hagoromo his power.
-Hagoromo is the one who mastered Yin and Yang and Yin-Yang, not Hamura.
-Kaguya saw the seals and instantly thought "Hagoromo". Not "Hagoromo and Hamura".

A child would be able to connect the very large and very obvious dots.

Then don't mention your own pieces of shit unless its actually stated otherwise it didn't happen, and your the idiot ow I guess. Lol.

2. I wasn't talking seriously about that, wow, just wow.

Right sure.
Okay.
Incorrect, both Hamura and Hagoromo are masters of Yin-Yang release.
Doesn't matter, there are countless reasons why she said that, and no, she didn't instantly think that.

Right, so who's the one making assumptions now? :heh:

Don't need Manga Scans when I have plenty of factual Manga statements and showings that heavily imply he gave him his Yin power to help him fight. Though I'm ashamed of myself for thinking you were somewhat logical.

Right, okay, you don't need manga scans to prove something and will instead rely on your own interpretations of manga statements and logic.

Assuming much now aren't you?
And yes, I can connect those dots, not that stupid, however, I can also connect other dots.

Wasn't his.

Yeah, it kinda was his bro, the Six Paths Yin chakra was Hamura's power (he's listed under that power).

And the same shit applies to Hagoromo. Powerful chakra doesn't always mean the person has an affinity for Yin. Hashirama's chakra is incredibly powerful. I guess he's Yin too. Lol.

No, Hagoromo's chakra is both mental and physical, its the combination of Yin, and Yang. Jeez mate, calm down.

Are you even reading before you post? Or are you just throwing whatever garbage comes to mind without actually checking to see if it's applicable first?

1. Who the hell was talking about Naruto and Sasuke's individual strength?

2. Who the hell was talking about strength?

-You claimed that Hagoromo and Hamura are one half of Kaguya's CHAKRA AMOUNT.
-Naruto and Sasuke are Hagoromo's full CHAKRA AMOUNT.
-Thus you are saying that Naruto and Sasuke are half of Kaguya's CHAKRA AMOUNT.
-But Kaguya already called them fragments, so that's the end of the "Hagoromo and Kaguya passed their full chakra amount down to their kids" nonsense.

I'm too tired to reread what I said before, I just post it bro.

1. You were actually.

2. No idea.

Indeed, I said that because that's what the DB states.
Yes, together Naruto and Sasuke's chakra is equal to Elderly Hagoromo's full chakra.
Right, sure, together they might be.
Yet again, when Kaguya called them fragments she was talking about their chakra's as individuals, not as one entity.

Fragments meaning 'an isolated or incomplete part of something,' and 'a small part broken off or separated from something.'
Their very definition is fragments to her.
Hagoromo is one half, now, that one half splits into half again, what does that make? A fragment of what Kaguya was.
Your posts aren't very sound right now bro.

You obviously don't. And you've seem to forgotten how to read, if you could ever read at all, given the unrelated replies to my posts. I'll dumb it down for you.

Actually, your the one that has forgotten to read considering that you've misread me on multiple occasions.

What I need to do is stop debating with morons. Lol.

Your right, I have quite the mental impairment that I am actually below a moron ROFL.

Like I said, I need to stop debating with morons.

I don't give a shit if Naruto was nerfed as that wasn't my point. Lol. Read before you reply kiddo. I said that Naruto and Sasuke tied at the valley, so if Naruto was stronger than he was in the valley, he would've won. So I asked you if his Sun Mark would give him the power to win, a question that was instead answered by this nonsense.

Then there's the fact that Naruto wasn't nerfed, and whether or not Sasuke had to use the Bijuu is besides the fucking point. Lol. My God.

Okay.

Right sure.
I forgot about that question, Naruto with the Sun Mark is the Naruto with all Nine Tailed Beats, so yeah, he should be able to beat VOTE2 Sasuke.

Naruto was nerfed, he didn't have access to all of his power. The only thing VOTE2 Naruto had on his Kaguya Battle self is better experience with his powers. In actuality VOTE2 Naruto is weaker because he didn't have the other tailed beasts chakra until after the fight was over.

Yet the Manga scan clearly shows their physical appearance. Lol. The denial of pure fact is golden. Yet he knew that they were on a battlefield, fighting a war. Something you can't tell by just feeling chakra signatures. Lol.

You mean Naruto saw faint appearances that were drawn as slight outlines around their chakra.
But sure, okay.

Here's the difference between us. I make assumptions with actual manga evidence behind them. You make shit up. Point, blank, period.


She thinks that they are her sons because they have the same seals. Not because of any nonsense chakra link you are trying to make up here.

Don't think so highly of yourself, I also make assumptions with Manga (and DB) evidence.

Do you want to know what it means to sense something in Naruto? When you sense something in Naruto, your sensing its chakra, if Kaguya can sense the seals, then it means the seals have their own innate chakra. Which she mistook for her sons.

Yes, obviously. But whatever you are thinking is wrong. Hamura has nothing to do with the seals.

Right, okay bro.

It's not speculation. I suggest we learn the difference between fact and speculation. The fact she confirms them to be Indra and Ashura means that the context was referring to transmigrants. So once again, you are wrong.

Nah, its an assumption bro. Your assuming this.

No, it's not, because she didn't feel Hamura and Hagoromo's chakra in the seals. She only felt the presence of the seals.

Dude, she sensed the seals presence, which means she sensed chakra in them, its that simple.

Wtf?

THIS. This is what you stated. Please don't try and twist it around to make it seem like you've been saying the same thing I've been saying the whole time. You were going on about some "Hamura's chakra in the seals" bullshit while I was actually reading the Manga, and pointed out that she never referred to the seals, she referred to them, as transmigrants. Lol.

It seems you've misread me again, though I guess you can't read my mind, so you wouldn't have realised what I actually meant, and considering I didn't word it very well......
No, you've misread my previous ones as well, dear ****ing lord.

Right, she senses the seals and thinks that they are Hamura and Hagoromo.
But than she checks again, and realises that Naruto and Sasuke's actual chakra (and not the seals) is Indra an Ashura's, that's all there is to it brah.

She didn't see the seals at all, but she sensed the inherent chakra within them. Sasuke's Yin seals Yin chakra gave of a similar chakra signature to Hamura, whereas Naruto's Yang seals Yang chakra gave of a similar chakra signature to Yang Hagoromo.

No, I said she sensed the seals and thought that they were 'Hagoromo and Hamura's' but rechecked and saw their actual chakra, which was Indra and Ashura's chara. It's so simple brah.

What I meant by

That's what I've been saying all this ****ing time mate.

I was replying to

She felt the seals by some unknown means, and then figured that they were her sons, then she actually checked with Byakugan and realized that they weren't.

Bold.
I was thinking 'felt,' constituted as being similar to 'sense.'
I was also in many ways agreeing with Italics.
Hamura's chakra isn't in both seals but merely one.
Or at least, Hamura's Yin chakra is similar to that of Hagoromo's Yin seal, which, might I add, makes sense since they are brothers.

Addressed so many times. All you can do is come back with the same retarded ass replies.

Sure, right, okay. :erm:

1. Didn't happen.
2. No proof that it happened.
3. Makes zero sense for it to have happened.
4. That's why it didn't happen.

I'm most likely right. You are definitely wrong no matter how you slice it.

1. You think quite highly of yourself don't you?
2. No proof that it didn't happen.
3. Makes sense both ways.
4. Right, sure. :Omg:





Edit: I have an interesting find right here.
"Chibaku Tensei / Six Paths Chibaku Tensei" has a single entry, and lists "Nagato / Naruto and Sasuke, Hagoromo and Hamura" as its users. It's a kekkei genkai sealing jutsu.

Six Paths Chibaku Tensei is invoked when two users simultaneously touch their target with the "Yin" and "Yang" seals. It rips a giant chunk of earth up and turns it into a heavenly body, becoming the Prison of Six Paths (六道の獄 Rokudō no Goku) that can capture all things (万物捕, "banbutsuto"). It's a sealing jutsu that can be used by individuals who awaken Six Paths Senjutsu. "Chibaku Tensei" is the version that can be used by a single individual, while "Six Paths Chibaku Tensei" is a more powerful version that requires two individuals simultaneously combining the power of Yin and Yang. It turns the sealing target into a gravity core in the sky, which attracts chunks of earth that bury them alive. This forms a heavenly body in the sky that can act as a prison for even a tailed beast. The section in the bottom left describes how the moon was the result of Six Paths Chibaku Tensei, and that so much chakra was contained within that it turned into a gigantic sattelite. It also describes it as a giant sealing stone (封印石 "Fuinseki"), which implies that Kishimoto took some inspiration from those giant "sealing stones" you sometimes see -- the big boulders with the kanji inscribed on them, usually with the ceremonial ropes adoring them.

 

[KidGamer65]

Chakra is naturally inherited through blood and DNA. Not only that, but since they both got something from him, doesn't that mean he would've gotten weaker? Yet it was never stated.

Unless you can provide proof besides with Kaguya's case, than it doesn't happen.

Kaguya's case is literally the only evidence you had. I have no reason to try and address anything else.

No, it doesn't, but it doesn't change the fact that to have the Sage's eye you must first have Yin and Yang chakra's melded together.
His Doujutsu is formed from the combination of both the body and the eyes.

Doesn't change my point.

Hashirama alive or not, his cells still naturally carry Ashura's special properties. Otherwise Hashirama's cells would not be special anymore, yet they are. Yes, I do know how Transmigration works.

Obviously you don't. Dead Hashirama=Ashura's chakra passing on to Naruto when he's born. Thus Hashirama no longer has it. Meaning his genetic material no longer contains that chakra either. The bold is something you made up, once again, considering there is zero proof that his cells need to retain Ashura's chakra to be like that. None at all. The simple fact that they are transmigrating obliterates this thought of yours.

Doesn't change the fact that their Transmigrants still naturally have their chakra after death.

Do you know what "transmigration" is?

You must be registered for see images

Passing of a soul into a NEW body. The definition and workings of transmigration completely disagree with this statement. Then there's the fact that you have zero proof to actually back such a nonsense statement anyway.

Once chakra goes into someone's body, that becomes your own chakra, it stays in your DNA, even after Indra and Ashura's Chakra's leave and latch onto someone else.

Nice try, but no.

-Is Kurama's chakra etched into the DNA of all the Shinobi Alliance?
-Is Hachibi's chakra etched into Nagato's body?

Then there's the fact that you are trying to compare two transmigrating souls/chakras to a regular transfer of chakra. Lol. Sorry buddy. TRANSMIGRATION. That term ends any speculation about them keeping the chakras.

If Ashura's chakra disappears from the cells upon the Transmigrant's death, then Madara wouldn't have gained the Rinnegan, remember, he implanted the cells, but it took years and years for them too work, up till the end of his natural life span, Hashiramam was already dead by than, which means that his cells would've been useless bro.

Hagoromo clearly stated that Madara's case was a problem, and that he did this before the transmigration was over so he could keep both and bring out Hagoromo's power. Mixing the two grants you his chakra. Who knows if the Rinnegan comes immediately, or years after that, or needs some sort of trigger. Either way, you don't have a point.

1. Wood release is connected to the Juubi/Shinju, through Yang release, Ashura inherited that same Yang release, became Hashirama's Transmigrant, Hashirama gained that inherent Yang release, he then has the power of Wood style, but is the only person to be able to use it. Why is that you might ask, its because Hashirama's wood release comes from his Yang powers as Ashura's Transmigrant.

I'm getting tired of all your assumptions.

-Proof that Mokuton is connected to the Juubi through Yang Release?
-Proof that Ashura's Yang Release is related to the Juubi?
-Proof that Ashura has any relation to Mokuton?

If anything you were saying held any ground whatsoever, then Naruto would naturally obtain Mokuton as he is Ashura's reincarnation. All the other Senju who were reincarnations of Ashura also would've had Mokuton, yet the only one to ever use it besides Juubi Jins, is Hashirama. End of story. End of your point. Lol. Nice try though.

2. Madara cultivated that small piece of Hashirama's DNA into larger amounts of Hasirama's DNA, or have you forgotten that?

Irrelevant. He only implanted a small piece of Hashirama's arm into his own body. What he made after that is irrelevant.

3. Yeah, but Hagoromo only gave Sasuke his Yin chakra without any Yang, same goes for Naruto, genuis.

1. Zero proof that he did that.
2. Manga states you need Hagoromo's chakra and that's it. You can repeat the same BS over and over again. Not gonna change the facts.

Hagoromo's Yin and Yang is what's needed, you can't have it with just a single piece of his chakra.
There's no twisting here.

Nope. Hagoromo said that his chakra is needed. Nothing more.

The Fourth Databook lists the Gudoudama's as only activating from having the Senjutsu of Six Paths ROFL.

Yet Obito doesn't have it. Lol. I don't care what the DB says when Obito used the Gudo Dama without having Senjutsu of the Six Paths. He only had that when he was the Juubi Jin. Period.

Obito did have Senjutsu of Six Paths, not the same variant as Naruto, but he still had it. Obito obtained a small amount of Senjutsu of Six Paths power by stealing some of it from JJ Madara while he was trying to gain a piece of the One-Tails and Eight-Tails Chakra for Naruto.
You obtain the Senjutsu of Six Paths Technique upon becoming a Jin for the Juubi.
Kaguya did have Six Paths Sage Chakra.

Is that RSM? Lol. No. I suggest we learn the difference before replying. Six Paths Sage Mode, Six Paths Ten Tails Coffin Seal, and having his Senjutsu Chakra are not the same things. Naruto got the first one from Hagoromo. The second one comes from the Juubi, and third one is what Hamura, Kaguya, and most likely Toneri (somehow) have.

Then there's the fact that Toneri has the Gudo Dama, yet doesn't have RSM or Ten Tails Coffin Seal.

Yes actually, Hamura does have Six Paths Sage Chakra, both he and Hagoromo naturally inherited it from Kaguya, not only that, but the Tenseigan also grants a Six Paths Sage Mode/Technique.
Its how they all have Gudoudama in the first place bro.

No, Hamura is the actual wielder of the Six Paths Yin chakra, its his power.

Based on what? Oh wait. Nothing. Lol.

Can we what? :hmm:

Ignore it.

Nah uh man, he gave Sasuke his Six Paths Yin chakra and Naruto his Six Paths Yang chakra, not both, doesn't work like that. You need both Six Paths Yin and Six Paths Yang chakra for the Rinnegan, not one.
Sasuke has both Indra and Ashura chakra, which reacted to Hagoromo's Six Paths Yin chakra. That's all there is to it.

1. Sasuke doesn't have Ashura's chakra.
2. He gave Naruto and Sasuke his chakra. Not half Yin, half Yang.
3. Hagoromo's chakra is what was stated to grant Rinnegan. Nothing more. Stop adding shit. Lol.

No bro, its not a fan-made thing, Yin and Yang is indeed the eyes and the body. Yang is the physical chakra's life force and vitality. Yin is the mental energies, strong and powerful chakra's.

We already knew this. Doesn't confirm the correlation.

Sage mode can only be used if you have a strong body along with a huge amount of chakra, naturally, its Yang in nature. Life force, natural chakra, its all connected.

Once again. No. Stop trying to connect shit that doesn't naturally connect. At this point it's you throwing whatever speculative garbage at me and seeing when I'll concede.

Having a lot of chakra is all you need to get Sage Mode. Madara is predominately Yin, and he has the most chakra out of all the Uchiha who have ever appeared on screen even before getting Hashirama's DNA. Does that mean he's predominately Yang? Obviously not. All you are showing me is that people with high physical energies have a better chance of learning Sage Mode, not that Sage Mode itself is a Yang power.

Sure, okay.

Evenly denied? How is power evenly denied?

Once again. Nothing you've shown has proven literally anything you've tried to assert.

No, really, there was indeed another translation for that passage that used dispersed instead of split, I don't personally agree with the word usage. But it's true, not lying here.

When you have the passage then we can talk.

Also, dispersed also means 'thin out or cause to thin out and disappear.' It is also connected to the word 'distribute.'
Think on that word for a minute, has it clicked yet? Kaguya's chakra went into her sons and disappeared didn't it?

You are claiming that they are half of Kaguya's chakra each. If her chakra went into them and "disappeared" then she'd have ZERO chakra you clown. Lmao. Use your brain before you reply. Not to mention that doesn't say shit about the amount she actually distributed to them. This means that whatever she gave them was given to them, and it disappeared from her.

Then there's the fact that in reality, if something were to disperse, it would be the thing disappearing. So you are actually saying that the chakra she gave disappeared, but it obviously didn't disappear as Hagoromo and Hamura have it. Lol. Your point makes zero sense.

I know that, I agreed with you, but that was only in her case, there is no other case of someone inheriting chakra and the parent losing their's.

That's because no parent passes down all their chakra.

Dude, chakra does pass down in your genes, cells and DNA. It is literately part of peoples blood. Its why Indra inherited his fathers strong/powerful chakra genes, his father didn't give him that now did he? No, Indra inherited that power through his genes, Ashura inherited his fathers life force, vitality, and physical chakra's through his genes and blood. It's that simple.

Yes. They inherited their power thus they didn't get all of Hagoromo's power. It's really that simple. When you have proof that they inherited half of his chakra each, then we can talk.

2. Amount what? You have a terrible habit of finishing your sentences early and leaving me trying to figure out what your saying.

Please learn how to read. That is a complete sentence. Full chakra amount. Chakra Amount=How much chakra they have. Jesus Christ.

Not only that, but remember, when Kaguya said their chakra's were fragments of her own? She was saying as individuals that Naruto's and Sasuke's were fragments, not when their chakra is together.

A fourth of her chakra isn't a fragment. Lol.

Which you have no proof of.

Already explained it, and the support I used are factual manga events, or plain common sense. If you can't refute, then I'll take your concession.

Both Hagoromo and Hamura are masters of Yin and Yang release, its possible that they both have their own set of the seals.

Based on nothing of course.

Right, so just because someone has something now they are the original wielder? I guess Sasuke is the original wielder of the Rinnegan ROFL.

He's the original wielder of his own Rinnegan, obviously. So your idiotic example falls flat on it's face. Like I said. The seals return to the original user after their task is done. Hagoromo has them both now. Do. The. Math.

Wow, you resort to insults very easily don't you.
Maybe you should chill out a little mate.

Don't post dumb stuff and I won't insult you.

Then don't mention your own pieces of shit unless its actually stated otherwise it didn't happen, and your the idiot ow I guess. Lol.

I've backed up my claims. When you can do the same, please reply. Until then, stop being an idiot.

2. I wasn't talking seriously about that, wow, just wow.

Then don't mention it. That simple.

Right sure.
Okay.
Incorrect, both Hamura and Hagoromo are masters of Yin-Yang release.

Based on nothing.

Doesn't matter, there are countless reasons why she said that, and no, she didn't instantly think that.

And tell me one of these reasons. Oh wait, you are just making more excuses. She saw the seals and then said "You two must be Hagoromo and Hamura's...." then she checked their chakra and found out that they were her grandsons, not her sons. If you don't have the mental capacity to make inferences then you shouldn't be posting here.

Right, so who's the one making assumptions now? :heh:

You mean logical assumptions backed by pure common sense or manga panels? Lol.

Right, okay, you don't need manga scans to prove something and will instead rely on your own interpretations of manga statements and logic.

You can post whatever you want, as long as it is backed up by something. What isn't your dumbass understanding about that?

Don't need Manga Scans when I have plenty of factual Manga statements and showings that heavily imply he gave him his Yin power to help him fight. Though I'm ashamed of myself for thinking you were somewhat logical.

Assuming much now aren't you?
And yes, I can connect those dots, not that stupid, however, I can also connect other dots.

Assuming? Without evidence? Nope. Can't say the same for you though.

Yeah, it kinda was his bro, the Six Paths Yin chakra was Hamura's power (he's listed under that power).

Yes, so is Sasuke. Guess he's the original wielder of the Yin Power too. Lol.

No, Hagoromo's chakra is both mental and physical, its the combination of Yin, and Yang. Jeez mate, calm down.

ALL chakra is made up of mental and physical energy. ALL chakra. Lol. So what the hell is your point? Lol.

I'm too tired to reread what I said before, I just post it bro.

1. You were actually.

Learn2Read. I said "CHAKRA AMOUNT".

2. No idea.

Ok then. Stop mentioning it.

Indeed, I said that because that's what the DB states.

No it doesn't. It says she split her chakra among them.

Yes, together Naruto and Sasuke's chakra is equal to Elderly Hagoromo's full chakra.

Yes.

Right, sure, together they might be.

Kaguya disagrees. No evidence for your point also disagrees.

Yet again, when Kaguya called them fragments she was talking about their chakra's as individuals, not as one entity.

1. They beat her as a group, so why would she refer to them as fragments as individuals, when she's referring to the power that beat her? She is surprised chakras so small in comparison beat her, when she is the progenitor.

2. One fourth isn't a fragment.

Fragments meaning 'an isolated or incomplete part of something,' and 'a small part broken off or separated from something.'
Their very definition is fragments to her.

You must be registered for see images

Hagoromo is one half, now, that one half splits into half again, what does that make? A fragment of what Kaguya was.
Your posts aren't very sound right now bro.

One fourth is a fragment? Oh boy...Lol.

Actually, your the one that has forgotten to read considering that you've misread me on multiple occasions.

Not really. Lol.

I forgot about that question, Naruto with the Sun Mark is the Naruto with all Nine Tailed Beats, so yeah, he should be able to beat VOTE2 Sasuke.

What the hell? Naruto has all the Bijuu regardless of his mark. The tie stands as the mark gives him nothing that'd boost his overall power.

Naruto was nerfed,

No, he wasn't. Not to mention that isn't relevant as I'm referring to them how they were, not a hypothetical "Naruto vs. Sasuke" at peak condition. So stop mentioning this. I don't know how many times I'm going to have to point this out before you stop.

he didn't have access to all of his power. The only thing VOTE2 Naruto had on his Kaguya Battle self is better experience with his powers. In actuality VOTE2 Naruto is weaker because he didn't have the other tailed beasts chakra until after the fight was over.

What the fuck? Ashura Avatar Naruto tops anything he's ever done in RSM. Bijuu's powers don't mean jack shit when they are inferior to what he does with Kurama. Lol. You are falling to new lows here buddy. Lol.

You mean Naruto saw faint appearances that were drawn as slight outlines around their chakra.
But sure, okay.

Was that not a physical appearance? Lol. Those weren't "outlines around their chakra" as someone's chakra doesn't take the shape and details of their physical body. Nor does the ground have chakra. Lol.

Don't think so highly of yourself, I also make assumptions with Manga (and DB) evidence.

Either you do and it's misplaced, or you don't. Lol.

Do you want to know what it means to sense something in Naruto? When you sense something in Naruto, your sensing its chakra, if Kaguya can sense the seals, then it means the seals have their own innate chakra. Which she mistook for her sons.

When you are using chakra sensing, then yes. Except there is no proof that she used chakra sensing there. If she was using chakra sensing then there'd be no need to confirm with Byakugan. She'd only need to use her chakra sensing to confirm the seal's origin.

Lol. Keep on grasping buddy. Keep on grasping.

Nah, its an assumption bro. Your assuming this.

Nope. Already addressed. Replying with nonsense bullshit isn't going to get you anywhere. The context CONFIRMS what she was saying. I suggest we take an English class and learn about context clues before we continue.

Dude, she sensed the seals presence, which means she sensed chakra in them, its that simple.

Nope. If she was sensing the chakra of the seals then:

1. She would've referenced the seals when she said "You are Hagoromo and Hamura's.."
2. She wouldn't have needed to actually check the chakra with Byakugan.





I

t seems you've misread me again, though I guess you can't read my mind, so you wouldn't have realised what I actually meant, and considering I didn't word it very well......
No, you've misread my previous ones as well, dear ****ing lord.







What I meant by



I was replying to


Bold.
I was thinking 'felt,' constituted as being similar to 'sense.'
I was also in many ways agreeing with Italics.
Hamura's chakra isn't in both seals but merely one.
Or at least, Hamura's Yin chakra is similar to that of Hagoromo's Yin seal, which, might I add, makes sense since they are brothers.

I specifically said "felt" for a reason. Not sensd. Hamura's chakra isn't in any seal. Kaguya never hinted or implied at such a retarded conclusion.

1. You think quite highly of yourself don't you?

Not really. You must though since you keep bringing it up. Inferiority Complex maybe?

2. No proof that it didn't happen.

Who cares? There is no evidence that it happened thus your claim is dismissed.

3. Makes sense both ways.
4. Right, sure. :Omg:

No, it doesn't. Not at all.

Edit: I have an interesting find right here.
"Chibaku Tensei / Six Paths Chibaku Tensei" has a single entry, and lists "Nagato / Naruto and Sasuke, Hagoromo and Hamura" as its users. It's a kekkei genkai sealing jutsu.

Six Paths Chibaku Tensei is invoked when two users simultaneously touch their target with the "Yin" and "Yang" seals. It rips a giant chunk of earth up and turns it into a heavenly body, becoming the Prison of Six Paths (六道の獄 Rokudō no Goku) that can capture all things (万物捕, "banbutsuto"). It's a sealing jutsu that can be used by individuals who awaken Six Paths Senjutsu. "Chibaku Tensei" is the version that can be used by a single individual, while "Six Paths Chibaku Tensei" is a more powerful version that requires two individuals simultaneously combining the power of Yin and Yang. It turns the sealing target into a gravity core in the sky, which attracts chunks of earth that bury them alive. This forms a heavenly body in the sky that can act as a prison for even a tailed beast. The section in the bottom left describes how the moon was the result of Six Paths Chibaku Tensei, and that so much chakra was contained within that it turned into a gigantic sattelite. It also describes it as a giant sealing stone (封印石 "Fuinseki"), which implies that Kishimoto took some inspiration from those giant "sealing stones" you sometimes see -- the big boulders with the kanji inscribed on them, usually with the ceremonial ropes adoring them.

Your find isn't interesting. Your find literally adds nothing to the discussion. Hamura is a user with Hagoromo because Hamura was given his seal. Same thing with Naruto and Sasuke.

 

[Lord of Akatsuki]

Kaguya's case is literally the only evidence you had. I have no reason to try and address anything else.

Very well then, how bout we stop with this particular discussion then?
We can continue with the others.

Doesn't change my point.

Yes, it indeed does.

Obviously you don't. Dead Hashirama=Ashura's chakra passing on to Naruto when he's born. Thus Hashirama no longer has it. Meaning his genetic material no longer contains that chakra either. The bold is something you made up, once again, considering there is zero proof that his cells need to retain Ashura's chakra to be like that. None at all. The simple fact that they are transmigrating obliterates this thought of yours.

So your blatantly ignoring the fact that Hashirama's cells are only special because he was a Transmigrant of Ashura?

Do you know what "transmigration" is?

You must be registered for see images

Passing of a soul into a NEW body. The definition and workings of transmigration completely disagree with this statement. Then there's the fact that you have zero proof to actually back such a nonsense statement anyway.

Oh boy, it seems you've mistaken something, Transmigration is a little different in Naruto, their souls don't actually go into them, just their Chakra's latch onto someone then continue once the Transmigration is over.

Nice try, but no.

-Is Kurama's chakra etched into the DNA of all the Shinobi Alliance?
-Is Hachibi's chakra etched into Nagato's body?

Then there's the fact that you are trying to compare two transmigrating souls/chakras to a regular transfer of chakra. Lol. Sorry buddy. TRANSMIGRATION. That term ends any speculation about them keeping the chakras.

You mistook me again, I didn't mean it in that context. When someone has chakra and it stays in you, and you continuously use it, it is your chakra. It was even noted that Indra and Ashura latch onto their targets own chakra bro.

The reason why Naruto's chakra is yellow is because he's Ashura's Transmigrant.

Hagoromo clearly stated that Madara's case was a problem, and that he did this before the transmigration was over so he could keep both and bring out Hagoromo's power. Mixing the two grants you his chakra. Who knows if the Rinnegan comes immediately, or years after that, or needs some sort of trigger. Either way, you don't have a point.

Hagoromo stated it was a problem because Madara didn't let the Transmigration finish, there was a lot more evolution and power that could've been gained from that, kinda explains why Madara seemingly only has Sussano.
But sure, I will consent to that, neither of us know how the cells implant powers work.

I'm getting tired of all your assumptions.

-Proof that Mokuton is connected to the Juubi through Yang Release?
-Proof that Ashura's Yang Release is related to the Juubi?
-Proof that Ashura has any relation to Mokuton?

If anything you were saying held any ground whatsoever, then Naruto would naturally obtain Mokuton as he is Ashura's reincarnation. All the other Senju who were reincarnations of Ashura also would've had Mokuton, yet the only one to ever use it besides Juubi Jins, is Hashirama. End of story. End of your point. Lol. Nice try though.

I'm getting tired of yours.


Mokuton can only be used by Juubi Jins and Hashirama right? Logically that means that they have connections in chakra. Not only that, but Ashura was born with the Juubi's Yang release, and the Juubi's body is wood.
Why else does Hashirama have it? It's obvious that Hashirama's Mokuton is a mix of Yang release with Water and Earth, its specifically life giving.


Lol, so you specifically ignore that all Transmigrants have different abilities? None of them are the same, they all gain different innate abilities, Madara doesn't magically have Blaze Release does he?
We don't know anything about the other Transmigrants, so don't bring them into this, that only breaks your arguments when your making assumptions about people we haven't seen yet or heard anything of.

Irrelevant. He only implanted a small piece of Hashirama's arm into his own body. What he made after that is irrelevant.

Dude, he naturally would have put more in him you know.

1. Zero proof that he did that.
2. Manga states you need Hagoromo's chakra and that's it. You can repeat the same BS over and over again. Not gonna change the facts.

Manga states you need the Six Paths Yin and Yang chakra to gain the Rinnegan, stop twisting it. Hagoromo gave Sasuke only the Six Paths Yin, which meanss that he can't have Rinnegan since he wasn't given the other half of the equation.

Nope. Hagoromo said that his chakra is needed. Nothing more.

You mean Hagoromo said that the combination of Indra and Ashura which creates his chakra is needed.
Only through the combination of the Six Paths Yin and Yang can the Rinnegan form, stop with this idiocy.

Yet Obito doesn't have it. Lol. I don't care what the DB says when Obito used the Gudo Dama without having Senjutsu of the Six Paths. He only had that when he was the Juubi Jin. Period.

He stole chakra from JJ Madara you idiot, thus he gained Senjutsu of Six Paths chakra again, and managed to use TSB again.
He wouldn't have Rikudou chakra anymore then, which means Kakashi wouldn't have been amped by that power.

Is that RSM? Lol. No. I suggest we learn the difference before replying. Six Paths Sage Mode, Six Paths Ten Tails Coffin Seal, and having his Senjutsu Chakra are not the same things. Naruto got the first one from Hagoromo. The second one comes from the Juubi, and third one is what Hamura, Kaguya, and most likely Toneri (somehow) have.

Then there's the fact that Toneri has the Gudo Dama, yet doesn't have RSM or Ten Tails Coffin Seal.

Yes actually, Hamura does have Six Paths Sage Chakra, both he and Hagoromo naturally inherited it from Kaguya, not only that, but the Tenseigan also grants a Six Paths Sage Mode/Technique.
Its how they all have Gudoudama in the first place bro.

Six Paths Ten Tails Coffin Seal is the seal that's used when they absorb the Juubi, not the Sage Technique they gain upon absorption unless I'm mistaken.
Six Paths Sage mode was specifically called 'The Senjutsu of Six Paths' and Madara said that he had that power. I admitted that Naruto's is slightly different, being Hagoromo's own Sage Mode, but that doesn't change the fact that they all have Six Paths Senjutsu.

Hamura and Hagoromo are brothers, they are both probably a form of pseudo-jinchuuriki.
Toneri is a decendant of Hamura, its probable that he managed to inherit the Six Paths Senjutsu, or he got it from Tenseigan.

Is that last part a mistake? Were you trying to quote me but it didn't work out?

Based on what? Oh wait. Nothing. Lol.

The Databook lists both Hagoromo and Hamura as the wielder's of the Six Paths Yin chakra, and lists Sasuke as having been granted it by Hagoromo (a noticeable distinction right there).

Ignore it.

Um, okay.

1. Sasuke doesn't have Ashura's chakra.
2. He gave Naruto and Sasuke his chakra. Not half Yin, half Yang.
3. Hagoromo's chakra is what was stated to grant Rinnegan. Nothing more. Stop adding shit. Lol.

1. He does otherwise he wouldn't have the Rinnegan.
2. He gave Sasuke his Six Paths Yin chakra and Naruto his Six Paths Yang.
3. Both parts of Hagoromo's chakra you mean, both his Six Paths Yin and Yang, stop twisting it. The Manga is quite literal about this.

We already knew this. Doesn't confirm the correlation.


Once again. No. Stop trying to connect shit that doesn't naturally connect. At this point it's you throwing whatever speculative garbage at me and seeing when I'll concede.

Having a lot of chakra is all you need to get Sage Mode. Madara is predominately Yin, and he has the most chakra out of all the Uchiha who have ever appeared on screen even before getting Hashirama's DNA. Does that mean he's predominately Yang? Obviously not. All you are showing me is that people with high physical energies have a better chance of learning Sage Mode, not that Sage Mode itself is a Yang power.

Yes we already do, yet you stated that it was wrong and that it was fanmade when it's canon.

No. Yin=Eyes and Yang=Body is only something fans came up with because of what was stated for Indra and Ashura.

Speculative garbage? Well **** you, you've even ignored Manga statements showings and shit, what does that make you?

It''s been noted that strong chakra, lot of reserves, and that a strong body with determination is what is needed for Sage Mode, its not garbage, its Manga facts. The fact that Naruto's Six Paths Sage Mode is a power granted from the Sage as a Yang ability doesn't help your argument in the least.

Once again. Nothing you've shown has proven literally anything you've tried to assert.



When you have the passage then we can talk.



You are claiming that they are half of Kaguya's chakra each. If her chakra went into them and "disappeared" then she'd have ZERO chakra you clown. Lmao. Use your brain before you reply. Not to mention that doesn't say shit about the amount she actually distributed to them. This means that whatever she gave them was given to them, and it disappeared from her.

Then there's the fact that in reality, if something were to disperse, it would be the thing disappearing. So you are actually saying that the chakra she gave disappeared, but it obviously didn't disappear as Hagoromo and Hamura have it. Lol. Your point makes zero sense.



That's because no parent passes down all their chakra.

Bro, I was being meaning, 'how can you "Evenly denied?" lol,' talk about bad wording.
Actually, I'm still interested in knowing, was that a typo?


You were the one that said she lost chakra from them inheriting her power (which the manga also states). Also, she's the Shinju/Juubi, her chakra is bottomless, it'll simply regenerate bro.
She can keep making more and more chakra, and she absorbed chakra too,

Jeez, talk about misusing my own words like that, you cearly are barely reading what I'm saying and merely using whatever shit you notice to speak against me.

Yes. They inherited their power thus they didn't get all of Hagoromo's power. It's really that simple. When you have proof that they inherited half of his chakra each, then we can talk.

Can we stop this particular part of our discussion? I've grown tired of this back and forth shit, I'm also a busy guy and I don't have a lot of time to go looking for shit.

Please learn how to read. That is a complete sentence. Full chakra amount. Chakra Amount=How much chakra they have. Jesus Christ.



A fourth of her chakra isn't a fragment. Lol.

There was no full stop, and you clearly ended it abruptly, but whatever.

To her it might be, not only that, but a fragment also means 'a piece of something' and 'a portion,'

Isn't it quite logical to say Naruto's and Sasuke's chakra individually are pieces/portions of her own power?

Already explained it, and the support I used are factual manga events, or plain common sense. If you can't refute, then I'll take your concession.



Based on nothing of course.



He's the original wielder of his own Rinnegan, obviously. So your idiotic example falls flat on it's face. Like I said. The seals return to the original user after their task is done. Hagoromo has them both now. Do. The. Math.



Don't post dumb stuff and I won't insult you.

It's not a concession.

Right okay.

Lol, that was a joke.

How bout you do the same?

I've backed up my claims. When you can do the same, please reply. Until then, stop being an idiot.



Then don't mention it. That simple.

Based on nothing.



And tell me one of these reasons. Oh wait, you are just making more excuses. She saw the seals and then said "You two must be Hagoromo and Hamura's...." then she checked their chakra and found out that they were her grandsons, not her sons. If you don't have the mental capacity to make inferences then you shouldn't be posting here.


You mean logical assumptions backed by pure common sense or manga panels? Lol.

I've backed up my claims with DB and Manga scans, and just as you did, I made assumptions.

Whatever.
Right.

I don't have to, I'll get to that at the end when I reply to your reply of my edit so you'll understand.
More like she sensed the seals and thought they were Transmigrants of Hagoromo and Hamura, but rechecked and realised their actual chakra was Indra and Ashura's chakra.

Lol, love how you say claims with, pure common sense. Lol, just lol.

You can post whatever you want, as long as it is backed up by something. What isn't your dumbass understanding about that?

Which I have done, and you've done. So please, just let this go. :Omg:

Assuming? Without evidence? Nope. Can't say the same for you though.



Yes, so is Sasuke. Guess he's the original wielder of the Yin Power too. Lol.




ALL chakra is made up of mental and physical energy. ALL chakra. Lol. So what the hell is your point? Lol.



Learn2Read. I said "CHAKRA AMOUNT".



Ok then. Stop mentioning it.


No it doesn't. It says she split her chakra among them.


Yes.


Kaguya disagrees. No evidence for your point also disagrees.

I have backed my assumptions with evidence as well.

No actually, Sasuke is listed as being granted it by Hagoromo, not an actual wielder like Hagoromo and Hamura were listed as in the DB.

All chakra is made up of Yin and Yang. Which mental and physical energy are a part of.


Hmm?

Whatever.

Split would mean split in half you mean. Anway, I've taken the DBs statement literary, but it isn't completely specific I guess.

K.

Um, right...

1. They beat her as a group, so why would she refer to them as fragments as individuals, when she's referring to the power that beat her? She is surprised chakras so small in comparison beat her, when she is the progenitor.

2. One fourth isn't a fragment.

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One fourth is a fragment? Oh boy...Lol.

She referred to them specifically as individuals, stop grasping at straws.

Read above.

Read above.

Not really. Lol.






What the hell? Naruto has all the Bijuu regardless of his mark. The tie stands as the mark gives him nothing that'd boost his overall power.



No, he wasn't. Not to mention that isn't relevant as I'm referring to them how they were, not a hypothetical "Naruto vs. Sasuke" at peak condition. So stop mentioning this. I don't know how many times I'm going to have to point this out before you stop.



What the fuck? Ashura Avatar Naruto tops anything he's ever done in RSM. Bijuu's powers don't mean jack shit when they are inferior to what he does with Kurama. Lol. You are falling to new lows here buddy. Lol.

Right.


Naruto during VOTE2 didn't have access to all Bijuu chakra or abilities, which means he was indeed technically superior during Kaguya's battle.

Right.

Right, so all Nine Bijuu, TSBs, KGs, ridiculous chakra, is inferior to Ashura Avatar Naruto???

Was that not a physical appearance? Lol. Those weren't "outlines around their chakra" as someone's chakra doesn't take the shape and details of their physical body. Nor does the ground have chakra. Lol.




Either you do and it's misplaced, or you don't. Lol.



When you are using chakra sensing, then yes. Except there is no proof that she used chakra sensing there. If she was using chakra sensing then there'd be no need to confirm with Byakugan. She'd only need to use her chakra sensing to confirm the seal's origin.

Lol. Keep on grasping buddy. Keep on grasping.

You must've missed the part where I agreed.

Ahha, right.

Then how did she even 'sense' or 'feel' the seals?

Nope. Already addressed. Replying with nonsense bullshit isn't going to get you anywhere. The context CONFIRMS what she was saying. I suggest we take an English class and learn about context clues before we continue.




Nope. If she was sensing the chakra of the seals then:

1. She would've referenced the seals when she said "You are Hagoromo and Hamura's.."
2. She wouldn't have needed to actually check the chakra with Byakugan.


I
I specifically said "felt" for a reason. Not sensd. Hamura's chakra isn't in any seal. Kaguya never hinted or implied at such a retarded conclusion.

Yeah sure, okay.

I'm not replying to any of that other retarded crap of yours.

Please stop misreading me.

Not really. You must though since you keep bringing it up. Inferiority Complex maybe?



Who cares? There is no evidence that it happened thus your claim is dismissed.



No, it doesn't. Not at all.

Nope, you are just really cocky and you seem to have a Superiority Complex.


Right sure.

k.

Your find isn't interesting. Your find literally adds nothing to the discussion. Hamura is a user with Hagoromo because Hamura was given his seal. Same thing with Naruto and Sasuke.

****, it seems I'm gonna have to help you with the context of that.

powerful version that requires two individuals simultaneously combining the power of Yin and Yang

What made it interesting, is that it specifically states that only two people can use that seal, not one.
Hopefully I don't need to spell the rest out for you.
(Hint, its related to something you said before).

 

[Null Man]

Naruto wins and even if somehow Asura possesses all half of Hagoromo's chakra, Naruto still has Kyuubi which he tamed on top of those powers. So it becomes Half of Sage's power + Half Kurama > Half of Sage's chakra.

 

[KidGamer65]

Yes, it indeed does

No, it doesn't. Rinnegan is half of his power. You needing both his son's chakra doesn't change that.

So your blatantly ignoring the fact that Hashirama's cells are only special because he was a Transmigrant of Ashura?

No. I'm going to ignore the baseless assumption you are making.

Oh boy, it seems you've mistaken something, Transmigration is a little different in Naruto, their souls don't actually go into them, just their Chakra's latch onto someone then continue once the Transmigration is over.

Lol, that's why I specifically stated "CHAKRA". Do the obvious thing and substitute "SOUL" with "CHAKRA". CHAKRA is what transmigrates. Not SOULS. Does that change the definition of TRANSMIGRATION. No. So please stop with the inept replies. It's getting pretty old.

You mistook me again, I didn't mean it in that context. When someone has chakra and it stays in you, and you continuously use it, it is your chakra. It was even noted that Indra and Ashura latch onto their targets own chakra bro.

There is no "separate context". That is exactly how it works for all cases. By saying their chakra sticks to them after their death, you are saying that the SA will continue to have Kurama's chakra even after using it up. You are denying the fact that their chakra transmigrates from person to person to person.

The reason why Naruto's chakra is yellow is because he's Ashura's Transmigrant.

Baseless ass assumption.

Hagoromo stated it was a problem because Madara didn't let the Transmigration finish, there was a lot more evolution and power that could've been gained from that, kinda explains why Madara seemingly only has Sussano.
But sure, I will consent to that, neither of us know how the cells implant powers work.

I'm getting tired of yours.


Mokuton can only be used by Juubi Jins and Hashirama right? Logically that means that they have connections in chakra. Not only that, but Ashura was born with the Juubi's Yang release, and the Juubi's body is wood.
Why else does Hashirama have it? It's obvious that Hashirama's Mokuton is a mix of Yang release with Water and Earth, its specifically life giving.

No one knows what kind of connection they have, but whatever connection there is, it's a connection between Hashirama and the Juubi and that doesn't have shit to do with Ashura or his other transmigrants. Ashura was NOT born with the Juubi's anything. Lol. He was born with HAGOROMO's power. HAGOROMO is his father. Not the ****ing Juubi.

You are doing nothing but pulling a whole load of shit out of your ass.

-Proof that the Juubi's body is Wood.
-Proof that the Juubi's Yang Release is Mokuton.
-Proof that Hashirama's cells need Ashura's chakra to be special.
-Proof that Hashirama kept Ashura's chakra despite Manga clearly stating that it passed on to NARUTO.

Lol, so you specifically ignore that all Transmigrants have different abilities? None of them are the same, they all gain different innate abilities, Madara doesn't magically have Blaze Release does he?

You said it's because of Ashura, thus no matter the person, Ashura's reincarnation should always have Mokuton. If all of his transmigrants don't have it, then it's not an ability granted by Ashura's chakra. It's really that simple. He can use Mokuton well because of his life force, but that doesn't mean getting Ashura's chakra gives you Mokuton.

We don't know anything about the other Transmigrants, so don't bring them into this, that only breaks your arguments when your making assumptions about people we haven't seen yet or heard anything of.

It's already a FACT that Hashirama is the only Senju to have Mokuton. That's not an assumption. Learn what the term is before you toss around the word while looking a fool in the process.

Dude, he naturally would have put more in him you know.

Please get proof. Or get lost. Manga shows him putting in that small piece of meat. Manga shows him using what he took to create a living clone of Hashirama. If you want me to believe he put more into his body, please show me proof or evidence that he did. Your word doesn't mean jack shit.

Manga states you need the Six Paths Yin and Yang chakra to gain the Rinnegan, stop twisting it. Hagoromo gave Sasuke only the Six Paths Yin, which meanss that he can't have Rinnegan since he wasn't given the other half of the equation.

Lol, what a dumbass.

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"MY CHAKRA". Get this Yin and Yang bullshit out of here.

You mean Hagoromo said that the combination of Indra and Ashura which creates his chakra is needed.
Only through the combination of the Six Paths Yin and Yang can the Rinnegan form, stop with this idiocy.

You must be registered for see images

Take your head out of your ass and read the manga kid. This is getting pretty ridiculous. Indra+Ashura=Hagoromo=Rinnegan. That simple.

He stole chakra from JJ Madara you idiot, thus he gained Senjutsu of Six Paths chakra again, and managed to use TSB again.
He wouldn't have Rikudou chakra anymore then, which means Kakashi wouldn't have been amped by that power.

Stealing a portion of Madara's chakra doesn't give him the actual form dumbass. Lol. Nice try though. Six Paths Senjutsu constitutes of mainly the extremely enhanced abilities and flight. Obito can't fly. That simple.

Six Paths Ten Tails Coffin Seal is the seal that's used when they absorb the Juubi, not the Sage Technique they gain upon absorption unless I'm mistaken.

Yes, it is. That's why I used it to refer to the powers a Juubi Jin gets. Lol.

Six Paths Sage mode was specifically called 'The Senjutsu of Six Paths' and Madara said that he had that power. I admitted that Naruto's is slightly different, being Hagoromo's own Sage Mode, but that doesn't change the fact that they all have Six Paths Senjutsu.

Does that change the fact that they are different? Or are you telling me that Six Paths Sage Mode and the Juubi Jin's powers are the same? Lol. No. Having Six Paths Senjutsu doesn't mean you have RSM, so please don't go around saying Ashura has RSM when he has nothing that'd link him to RSM besides the Gudo Dama, which aren't even around his own body but instead his battle avatar.

Hamura and Hagoromo are brothers, they are both probably a form of pseudo-jinchuuriki.

Lol, what the hell?

1. Kaguya became the Juubi after they were born.
2. You don't become a pseudo Jin from having a Jin for a mother. Or was Naruto a pseudo Jin when he was born too. Lol

Toneri is a decendant of Hamura, its probable that he managed to inherit the Six Paths Senjutsu, or he got it from Tenseigan.

And so is Indra. Lol. Your point? Since when could you get Six Paths Senjutsu, Hagoromo's Senjutsu from HAMURA's Dojutsu? Lol.

Is that last part a mistake? Were you trying to quote me but it didn't work out?

Ignore that.

The Databook lists both Hagoromo and Hamura as the wielder's of the Six Paths Yin chakra, and lists Sasuke as having been granted it by Hagoromo (a noticeable distinction right there).

Gonna need to see an entry, cause last time I checked there was no entry for the Six Paths Yin Power. Only for Six Paths CT, which only lists them as users. It doesn't say anything proving your point.

1. He does otherwise he wouldn't have the Rinnegan.

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2. He gave Sasuke his Six Paths Yin chakra and Naruto his Six Paths Yang.

Evidence? He gave them his chakra. The only chakra that has shown to be purely Yin or purely Yang in nature is Bijuu Chakra.

3. Both parts of Hagoromo's chakra you mean, both his Six Paths Yin and Yang, stop twisting it. The Manga is quite literal about this.

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"MY CHAKRA". Nothing else was said. Read the manga before you reply.

Yes we already do, yet you stated that it was wrong and that it was fanmade when it's canon.

I said that your correlation attempt was fanmade garbage. Read.

Speculative garbage? Well **** you, you've even ignored Manga statements showings and shit, what does that make you?

-No statement proves that Kaguya or Hagoromo split their chakra in half and gave it to their sons.
-No showing proves that.
-No statement or showing proves that Hamura is the original wielder of the Six Paths Yin Power. In fact, evidence shows that he isn't.
-No statement or showing proves that Sasuke has Hashirama's cells let alone Ashura's chakra.
-No statement or showing proves that Ashura's chakra sticks to the reincarnations. In fact, the definition of the term "transmigration" already defeats that point.
-No statement or showing proves that Ashura inherited the Juubi's Yang.

Speculative garbage is speculative garbage.

It''s been noted that strong chakra, lot of reserves, and that a strong body with determination is what is needed for Sage Mode, its not garbage, its Manga facts

The only fact is that you need immense reserves. That's it. No correlation you are trying to make is fact.

The fact that Naruto's Six Paths Sage Mode is a power granted from the Sage as a Yang ability doesn't help your argument in the least.

The only Yang ability he got from Hagoromo was the Six Paths Yang Power. Naruto uses Yin-Yang Release after getting Hagoromo's chakra according to the DB, but somehow he only got YANG Release from him/ Lmao.

Bro, I was being meaning, 'how can you "Evenly denied?" lol,' talk about bad wording.
Actually, I'm still interested in knowing, was that a typo?

That is basically what I meant. You have zero proof. That's why I posted that. "Evenly divided".

You were the one that said she lost chakra from them inheriting her power (which the manga also states). Also, she's the Shinju/Juubi, her chakra is bottomless, it'll simply regenerate bro.
She can keep making more and more chakra, and she absorbed chakra too,

Yet the Manga states the Juubi (Kaguya) went after the chakra SHE LOST. If she could just regenerate it then she would have no need to steal their chakra away from them.

Can we stop this particular part of our discussion? I've grown tired of this back and forth shit, I'm also a busy guy and I don't have a lot of time to go looking for shit.

That's the main part of this discussion. I'll just take your concession on the baseless assumption that they got half of their powers.

There was no full stop, and you clearly ended it abruptly, but whatever.

That's not an abrupt end. Learn to how tread. Lol.

To her it might be, not only that, but a fragment also means 'a piece of something' and 'a portion,'

Already posted the definition. Fragment generally means a small piece.

It's not a concession.

Right okay.

Lol, that was a joke.

How bout you do the same?

Back it up or it will be.

I've backed up my claims with DB and Manga scans, and just as you did, I made assumptions.

Except you didn't.

Whatever.
Right.

I don't have to, I'll get to that at the end when I reply to your reply of my edit so you'll understand.
More like she sensed the seals and thought they were Transmigrants of Hagoromo and Hamura, but rechecked and realised their actual chakra was Indra and Ashura's chakra.

She sensed/felt whatever the hell you want to call it. But she only felt the SEALS THEMSELVES. Not the imaginary innate chakra of Hamura. She didn't sense the chakra of anything until she checked with her Byakugan.

Lol, love how you say claims with, pure common sense. Lol, just lol.

I love how you are too stupid to actually form a logical argument.

I have backed my assumptions with evidence as well.

Nope.

No actually, Sasuke is listed as being granted it by Hagoromo, not an actual wielder like Hagoromo and Hamura were listed as in the DB.

Yet you've failed to post anything that proves this statement. No DB entry you've shown lists anything like that.

All chakra is made up of Yin and Yang. Which mental and physical energy are a part of.

Mental and Physical Energy are related to Yin and Yang. That doesn't mean that they are the same thing. That's like telling me that Hagoromo gave Naruto all his physical energy and Sasuke all his mental energy, when that's impossible as he gave them his chakra.

Hmm?

Whatever.

Split would mean split in half you mean. Anway, I've taken the DBs statement literary, but it isn't completely specific I guess.

K.

Since when did "split" refer to "split in half"? Lol. Learn to read pal. Split means split. That's it.

Um, right...

She referred to them specifically as individuals, stop grasping at straws.

No, she didn't. Lol. I suggest you actually read that panel and stop being a retard.

Right.


Naruto during VOTE2 didn't have access to all Bijuu chakra or abilities, which means he was indeed technically superior during Kaguya's battle.

Doesn't' matter moron. Ashura's Avatar trumps anything he can do with his Bijuu chakra. Lol, it takes a

Right.

Right, so all Nine Bijuu, TSBs, KGs, ridiculous chakra, is inferior to Ashura Avatar Naruto???

Hmm, let's see.

-Naruto uses Gudo Dama to block Susanoo Arrows, both are blown up but the former regenerates, and when PS comes out he switches to Kurama, meaning Kurama is stronger than the Gudo Dama.

-Nothing Naruto has done with his Bijuu Kekkei Genkai come close to what he's done with the Kurama Avatar let alone the Ashura Avatar.

Not to mention Naruto had access. Just another attempt of yours to rewrite the Manga so it can go hand in hand with your fantasies.

You must've missed the part where I agreed.

Ahha, right.

Then how did she even 'sense' or 'feel' the seals?

Don't know how. Not relevant how. The only relevant thing is that she did it.

Yeah sure, okay.

I'm not replying to any of that other retarded crap of yours.

Please stop misreading me.

I'm waiting for you to either stop replying or concede your shit arguments which I will list below:

-Ashura and Indra are half of Hagoromo's power.
-Hamura and Hagoromo are half of Kaguya's power.
-Naruto w/ Bijuu Abilities>Naruto w/ Ashura Avatar.
-Sasuke got Rinnegan with Ashura's chakra despite Manga and DB saying that he got it from Hagoromo.

Nope, you are just really cocky and you seem to have a Superiority Complex.

I'm not cocky. I'm only replying to you how I'd reply to any moron. The fact you have painted a picture where I act like I'm superior only shows that you are the one who thinks so. Lol.

Right sure.

k.




****, it seems I'm gonna have to help you with the context of that.

Lol, when you can read yourself, then we can talk about helping others.

What made it interesting, is that it specifically states that only two people can use that seal, not one.
Hopefully I don't need to spell the rest out for you.
(Hint, its related to something you said before).

You know what's interesting? How retarded you get the longer this drags on. Thanks for not proving your point, and giving evidence towards mine. Lol dumbass. If two people are needed for the sealing then that's evidence that Hagoromo had both and then gave one to Hamura since he'd NEED Hamura to seal as you need 2 people. Then there's the fact that DB says you need two people to use it, not that only two people can wield them. Hagoromo wields both. That simple. Did I say he can use both himself? Nope.

Lol. Save some face and don't bother replying. At this point I don't even know what the hell you are trying to argue. All I know is that it's retarded.