Naruto is a genius

BenjerminGaye

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Ladies and gentlemen, this is why I like NB. Perfect post of admitting being wrong.

mas·ter·y
ˈmast(ə)rē/Submit
noun
1.
comprehensive knowledge or skill in a subject or accomplishment.
"she played with some mastery"
synonyms: proficiency, ability, capability; More


Show me where it says learned tho?
 

BenjerminGaye

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Here's the full list:

synonyms: proficiency, ability, capability; knowledge, understanding, comprehension, familiarity, command, grasp, grip
"her mastery of the language"
skill, skillfulness, expertise, dexterity, finesse, adroitness, virtuosity, prowess, deftness, proficiency;
informalknow-how
"they played with tactical mastery"
 

Romy9

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mas·ter·y
ˈmast(ə)rē/Submit
noun
1.
comprehensive knowledge or skill in a subject or accomplishment.
"she played with some mastery"
synonyms: proficiency, ability, capability; More


Show me where it says learned tho?

Lol Still going at it? You found one site that doesn't have the word "learn" there, did you? The fact that the different scanlators used different words is the standalone proof of those words being synonyms, you know, having the same meaning? Ah well, kids will always be kids. You're done.
 

Xlad

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Where the hell did learning=mastery come from? Lol
 

BenjerminGaye

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Lol Still going at it? You found one site that doesn't have the word "learn" there, did you? The fact that the different scanlators used different words is the standalone proof of those words being synonyms, you know, having the same meaning? Ah well, kids will always be kids. You're done.

Bruh that's Google. Same site from the get go.

The fact that different scanlators Get different results is their lack proper of translations. We've seen it happen all the time. Infact it happen on the most current chapter of the Gaiden. One saying as "far as I can remember I've never met sasuke" And the other saying "since I was born I never met sasuke"

Are both those sayings correct? No thats a good 3-5 year difference. So don't rely on bad translations to try prove your point.

Here's a link to the thread:


Where the hell did learning=mastery come from? Lol

I said naruto learned rasengan in a couple of weeks but didn't show mastery it until 4th world war. (Where he finally does it with one hand). He's saying learn and master means the same thing.
 
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Zealous Sparks

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Being talented at something does not necessarily imply genius.

A chess grand master who has experience derived from decades of practice can still lose to a teenage prodigy. Why? Because one is naturally talented and the other has their talent derived from experience.
 

itsxtrayy

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>Shadow Clone Jutsu is not a high level jutsu to learn, it is just that it requires a large chakra pool to utilize, otherwise the person will be drained. That's why Shinobi with high reserves like Naruto can peform it so well, Boruto too.


>He had to clones to even do half of the work for him, Naruto mastered the technique during the Pain Arc when he peformed it with one hand


>Naruto's chakra pool stabilized SM better than both Jiraiya and Minato, Jiraiya himself could not keep it up by himself either. Lack of substance of course.


>Ashura is always the failure and hardworker. Most of these abilities, skills, and techniques Naruto would of never learned nor mastered by himself.

Wiki:
E-rank - Learned by Academy students. Are the basic and most fundamental techniques for all ninja.
D-rank - Genin-level techniques. Can be achieved by all genin, though many ninja only learn their "type" of technique.
C-rank - Chūnin-level techniques. Sometimes learned by genin who have trained extensively.
B-rank - Jōnin-level techniques. Require high levels of chakra to use.
A-rank - Kage or jōnin-level techniques. Require great control over one's chakra and may be forbidden.
S-rank - Secret, extreme level techniques. Are typically unique to a single user.

In chapter one Naruto uses Mass Shadow Clone Jutsu which is an A-Rank Jutsu even tho he was NEVER able to do the E-Rank clone jutsu and not only that he mastered it in a couple hours. Don't downplay the absurdity of this. This is Naruto's raw unmatched talent on display here no on else even comes close to this feat. Sasuke's fireball is only a C-Rank technique by comparison.

Naruto mastered the rasengan before he learned the shadow clone training during the Tsunade arc if he didn't master it Tsunade wouldn't have given him her necklace. Forming and stabilizing the Rasengan means it's mastered whether that's with one hand or 3 hands it doesn't matter.

That sage mode conclusion is just speculation by you, Minato had enough chakra and mastery that he didn't have any physical changes. Unlike Jiraiya. This proves he had enough chakra to master it Minato just wasn't SKILLED enough to use it as efficiently as Naruto because Naruto's talent with sage mode outclasses his.

When Ashura reached his brothers level, he stopped being a failure. If Ashura didn't have just as much potential as Indra he never would of reached his level.

Who cares if you learn or master things by yourself or someone teaches you? These things don't decide your talent level. Sasuke's dad taught him and Itachi the fireball jutsu Itachi did it in his first try and Sasuke did it after a week, but ultimately it was touted the entire manga that by the end Sasuke would be the more talented of the two. Sasuke was a late bloomer compared to Itachi, but he ended up being more talented than him, just like Naruto is a late bloomer compared to Sasuke and Ashura compared to Indra. They are still geniuses even if they are late bloomers.
 

Xlad

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Being talented at something does not necessarily imply genius.

A chess grand master who has experience derived from decades of practice can still lose to a teenage prodigy. Why? Because one is naturally talented and the other has their talent derived from experience.
That is like saying that the sun is, a spoon that eats coward doritos in middle of insane sunrise that is upsite when it sees the world.
 

SpoilerAlerts

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Think about it
He mastered shadow clone jutsu (a b level jutsu) in literally seconds

Mastered the rasengan faster than his Minato and Jiraiya then infused with a chakra nature something his own prodigy father couldn't do, then made a shuriken versions of it that was infused with a chakra nature.

Mastered Sage mode faster than Hashirama and Jiraiya without using a animal.

Got control of tailed beast chakra faster than any other jinchuuriki

Mastered tail beast mode in a seconds (Side noting: you would probably want to say that because Kurama was helping him, Killer bee got help from the Eight Tails and still took him years to get control of tail beast mode, and naruto did is a less than a minute.

He then fused Sage mode and Tailed Beast Mode like it was nothing

Got chakra from at the tailed beast and He was immediately able to use and Chakra natures and Kekkai Genkais of all the tailed beasts without any training.

He was able to manipulate the black balls on a level higher than Madara and Obito.

and list just keeps going, yet we still call him an idiot

Okay agree with everything beside tsb manipulation.
 

Zealous Sparks

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That is like saying that the sun is, a spoon that eats coward doritos in middle of insane sunrise that is upsite when it sees the world.
Masterful analogy :sdo:

So masterful that I can't even begin to understand the meaning.
 

Romy9

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Bruh that's Google. Same site from the get go.

The fact that different scanlators Get different results is their lack proper of translations. We've seen it happen all the time. Infact it happen on the most current chapter of the Gaiden. One saying as "far as I can remember I've never met sasuke" And the other saying "since I was born I never met sasuke"

Are both those sayings correct? No thats a good 3-5 year difference. So don't rely on bad translations to try prove your point.

Here's a link to the thread:

Your arguments are invalid because you don't seem to be providing any proof. I use what is presented to me, hence the two translations. And no, it's not just google. The simple fact that that original episode in Japanese also says the word "master" proves you wrong yet again. I already forgot how someone can be in so much denial or downplay Naruto but you surely reminded me of that quite fine.
 

Naruto X Hunter

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Being talented at something does not necessarily imply genius.

A chess grand master who has experience derived from decades of practice can still lose to a teenage prodigy. Why? Because one is naturally talented and the other has their talent derived from experience.

I'm just curious.Which do you think is better? The Experienced person,or the Talented Prodigy.
 

BenjerminGaye

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Lol Still going at it? You found one site that doesn't have the word "learn" there, did you? The fact that the different scanlators used different words is the standalone proof of those words being synonyms, you know, having the same meaning? Ah well, kids will always be kids. You're done.

Wait. Hold up. Dial it back. I'm bout to expose your bias.

Had I found a site that didn't have the word "learn" in its synonyms, (I didn't but it's for the sake of argument ) it wouldn't be ok with you? Even tho you're doing the same exact thing with two different scans?
Wow. This guy

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itsxtrayy

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>Shadow Clone Jutsu is not a high level jutsu to learn, it is just that it requires a large chakra pool to utilize, otherwise the person will be drained. That's why Shinobi with high reserves like Naruto can peform it so well, Boruto too.


>He had to clones to even do half of the work for him, Naruto mastered the technique during the Pain Arc when he peformed it with one hand


>Naruto's chakra pool stabilized SM better than both Jiraiya and Minato, Jiraiya himself could not keep it up by himself either. Lack of substance of course.


>Ashura is always the failure and hardworker. Most of these abilities, skills, and techniques Naruto would of never learned nor mastered by himself.

Wiki:
E-rank - Learned by Academy students. Are the basic and most fundamental techniques for all ninja.
D-rank - Genin-level techniques. Can be achieved by all genin, though many ninja only learn their "type" of technique.
C-rank - Chūnin-level techniques. Sometimes learned by genin who have trained extensively.
B-rank - Jōnin-level techniques. Require high levels of chakra to use.
A-rank - Kage or jōnin-level techniques. Require great control over one's chakra and may be forbidden.
S-rank - Secret, extreme level techniques. Are typically unique to a single user.

In chapter one Naruto uses Mass Shadow Clone Jutsu which is an A-Rank Jutsu even tho he was NEVER able to do the E-Rank clone jutsu and not only that he mastered it in a couple hours. Don't downplay the absurdity of this. This is Naruto's raw unmatched talent on display here no on else even comes close to this feat. Sasuke's fireball is only a C-Rank technique by comparison.

Naruto mastered the rasengan before he learned the shadow clone training during the Tsunade arc if he didn't master it Tsunade wouldn't have given him her necklace. Forming and stabilizing the Rasengan means it's mastered whether that's with one hand or 3 hands it doesn't matter.

That sage mode conclusion is just speculation by you, Minato had enough chakra and mastery that he didn't have any physical changes. Unlike Jiraiya. This proves he had enough chakra to master it Minato just wasn't SKILLED enough to use it as efficiently as Naruto because Naruto's talent with sage mode outclasses his.

When Ashura reached his brothers level, he stopped being a failure. If Ashura didn't have just as much potential as Indra he never would of reached his level.

Who cares if you learn or master things by yourself or someone teaches you? These things don't decide your talent level. Sasuke's dad taught him and Itachi the fireball jutsu Itachi did it in his first try and Sasuke did it after a week, but ultimately it was touted the entire manga that by the end Sasuke would be the more talented of the two. Sasuke was a late bloomer compared to Itachi, but he ended up being more talented than him, just like Naruto is a late bloomer compared to Sasuke and Ashura compared to Indra. They are still geniuses even if they are late bloomers.
 

Romy9

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Wait. Hold up. Dial it back. I'm bout to expose your bias.

Had I found a site that didn't have the word "learn" in its synonyms, (I didn't but it's for the sake of argument ) it wouldn't be ok with you? Even tho you're doing the same exact thing with two different scans?
Wow. This guy

Your arguments are invalid because you don't seem to be providing any proof. I use what is presented to me, hence the two translations. And no, it's not just google. The simple fact that that original episode in Japanese also says the word "master" proves you wrong yet again. I already forgot how someone can be in so much denial or downplay Naruto but you surely reminded me of that quite fine.

Keep amusing me, I still have a bit more time.
 

DeDoll

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I'm just curious.Which do you think is better? The Experienced person,or the Talented Prodigy.

If you ask me.

Prodigy have much higher cap, while experienced person have input much more effort to do same as genius.
But if genius don't work with his potential he will be simple guy. And experienced one will be better one :)
 

The Demon Hawk

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The entirety of Naruto's skill set and tactics all fall in the line of hard core and intense training, aside from the powerup given by Hagoromo and Bijuu Mode.

Before I even make a deep analysis, Naruto would never have had the stamina/chakra to pull most of these techniques off by himself. His own chakra was mixed in with Kurama's, so at an early stage he was already being pumped by the Kyuubi thanks the 4th. Naruto was never really born a genius, he was just born lucky in a sense. Always given the right pieces in play.

Shadow clones > Naruto had to train for hours (or was it all day and night?) just to master the technique.

Rasengan > Do I have to explain why this technique took such an ample amount of time? It lasted the entire Hokage retreival mission arc just for him to learn it, and mind you he only peformed it once at the last minute before the arc itself ended.

Summoning Jutsu > His first try he summoned a tadpole, and it took quite a while for him to master the technique, and even that he could not do without Kurama's chakra.

Rasenshuriken > Same with the Rasengan except watered down due to the shadow clone method, he still had to train incredibly

Time skip > Mastering his already known skills to a new level.

Rasenshuriken > Self explantory

Sage Mode > Self Explantory

KCM > Could not do without the help of his mother, and Killer Bee.

Shushin (KCM) > Had to get used to moving at incredible high speeds

Bijuu Mode + Sage Mode > Did not come "naturally" --It wasn't hard to begin with, Kurama noted that it did not work earlier because Kurama would not synch his body with Ma and Pa. Though now that Kurama trusted him, you can understand the rest.

BIjuudama > He trained throughout the War Arc, and that mastery applies when he learned BM. It wasn't instantly granted, Naruto had to master the chakra ratios.

Most of Sasuke's training in Part 2 came from MS/EMS - Mind you, that was not really training at all.

I didn't ask you to give reasons justifying that Naruto isn't a genius. I already know that. And neither did I demand a list of his efforts. I’m well aware of them. All you basically did was to prove that Naruto wasn't quite a prodigy and that he worked hard (I completely agree with it), which was probably the most futile effort of countering my argument as well as composing a useless reply. YOU need some schooling…

Let me get some things in your mind. And for that, I’ll address two points (which is also the summary of the following explanation):
1. Naruto has considerable natural ability to aid in his learning. It isn’t all down to his hard work. He didn’t come to this point based on hard work only.
2. Naruto worked hard, but not as much as you seem to be implying. You’re exaggerating his hard work.

Naruto has natural ability:

It’s true that Naruto wasn’t a genius. But he wasn’t something ordinary either. He was special and super lucky. Being Ashura’s transmigrant, he had significant natural potential accompanied by all the benefits of naturally having tons of chakra and insane amount of luck augmented by Minato and Kushina's chakra that helped him on his way augmented by Kurama's leaked chakra augmented by complete access to Bijuu Mode (thanks to Kurama) augmented by the Sage's endowment of chakra. He was overflowing with luck and natural ability because of all that. Plus, his chakra didn’t blossom due to hard work like Ashura. He was endowed with an already blossomed chakra from Ashura.

Status of Naruto's hard work:

Naruto sure did a lot of hard work. Who denied that? But his success isn’t all down to his hard work. It depends a lot on his natural ability as well, as mentioned above. And the main thing is Naruto only worked hard, NOT intense, or long. He learned everything so swiftly because of his shadow clones, it didn’t really cause much learning stress or rigor. Although the training wasn’t easy, but it was easier than what it could have been. And due to his ability, it also wasn’t quite intense. Its general hard work ninjas do. Sasuke did it as well (although not as much as Naruto). And Naruto’s training covered such a short span of time for the very same reason. He was able to learn jutsus quickly. He worked hard but not as hard as you seem to be implying. You’re just exaggerating the stretch of time it took Naruto to master those techniques. Even Kakashi said that Sasuke mastered techniques in days, whereas Naruto can do the same in couple of hours. You think that has nothing to do with natural ability? Despite not being a genius, he learned everything so quickly. So where do you think that is coming from? Is it all without innate capability?
And because of that, you can hardly put Naruto’s training under the “hardcore” category.


Comparison to Sasuke:

This is your biggest perception flaw. You think that all of Naruto’s progress is owed to his hard work ONLY (aside from obvious endowments), and are completely ignoring his natural potential and ability. And you’re saying all of Sasuke’s progress is because of his natural talent and ability ONLY (aside from obvious endowments), and you’re completely neglecting his hard work.

And whatever you said about Naruto, I can say about Sasuke. But I don’t want to get into that. I'll just mention it slightly. Just consider the time period after Academy. He was determined to enter the squad at any cost. He wasn't giving up or ready to postpone his entry. And determination leads to hard work. Also, he worked really hard for Chunin exams. Not to mention all the struggle he had with the Curse Mark. And after losing to Gaara, he was even more determined to train harder. He had a goal set in mind, he had to work really hard for that. He wasn't just casually growing strong. He trained with Orochimaru to polish his skills. In addition to that, during the 3 year time skip, he trained much harder, as was evident at the beginning of Part 2 that he had lots of new jutsus up his sleeve whereas Naruto was just the same old thing. Shadow clones, Rasengan, and Kurama's aid in anger. Naruto worked hard to develop Rasenshuriken. Do you think Kirin was just a random experiment? Just because Sasuke's training isn't portrayed doesn't mean he isn't doing any training or hard work. And acquiring MS/EMS is different from actually mastering it. Sasuke had to put in effort to master it, probably manipulating Amaterasu flames on Susanoo. Just because MS/EMS grant a certain ability doesn't mean you have to do nothing in order to master it. And just because Sasuke's practice with those things isn't shown, doesn't mean he isn't doing it as well.

All I want to say is that, Naruto worked quite hard, harder than Sasuke, but his natural ability plays a significant role in his advancement. And that Sasuke has natural talent, even more so than Naruto, but he still worked really hard to come to this level.

When you compare Naruto's hard work to Sasuke's, you really don't see a lot of difference. There is certainly a difference, Naruto worked harder since he wasn't a prodigy, but not a lot of it to consider it significant, because Sasuke ALSO worked hard a lot, and Naruto ALSO possessed natural adeptness.

"Naruto really didn't work that hard in comparison to Sasuke" means his hard work doesn't stand out much when compared with Sasuke because although he worked quite hard, Sasuke was also really dedicated in working hard. It doesn't mean from any angle that he didn't do hard work at all. Or that he relies completely on natural talent.

Since when does being an ashura transmigrant grant the ability to learn powerful jutsu? Do you have any scans? To support your claims?

No, I don't have any scans since Ashura wasn't portrayed at all, and because nobody ever talked about Naruto's special capabilites with relevance to Ashura since nobody knew he was Ashura's reincarnation. Although you can consider that whatever unique thing was mentioned regarding Naruto's chakra was because of Ashura's chakra, but it wasn't specifically told because nobody knew about it. But I do have common sense to infer that.

Ashura inherited Sage's inferior chakra genes, and he worked hard to catch up with his brother, due to which his chakra blossomed and he gained the same power as Indra (according to the Sage). Naruto however, didn't have to do much hard work Ashura did, since he was endowed with the already blossomed Ashura's chakra. And having an already blossomed Ashura's chakra that could rival Indra i.e. Sasuke, don't you think he gets the ability to learn powerful jutsus? Although not to Sasuke's level, but atleast to some extent?
 

Naruto X Hunter

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If you ask me.

Prodigy have much higher cap, while experienced person have input much more effort to do same as genius.
But if genius don't work with his potential he will be simple guy. And experienced one will be better one :)

What trumps both is being a hardworking genuis.So i'd say a Talented Genuis is better,cause he can work hard aswell.Gain expeireince,and still be naturally skilled.


Wiki:
E-rank - Learned by Academy students. Are the basic and most fundamental techniques for all ninja.
D-rank - Genin-level techniques. Can be achieved by all genin, though many ninja only learn their "type" of technique.
C-rank - Chūnin-level techniques. Sometimes learned by genin who have trained extensively.
B-rank - Jōnin-level techniques. Require high levels of chakra to use.
A-rank - Kage or jōnin-level techniques. Require great control over one's chakra and may be forbidden.
S-rank - Secret, extreme level techniques. Are typically unique to a single user.

In chapter one Naruto uses Mass Shadow Clone Jutsu which is an A-Rank Jutsu even tho he was NEVER able to do the E-Rank clone jutsu and not only that he mastered it in a couple hours. Don't downplay the absurdity of this. This is Naruto's raw unmatched talent on display here no on else even comes close to this feat. Sasuke's fireball is only a C-Rank technique by comparison.

Naruto mastered the rasengan before he learned the shadow clone training during the Tsunade arc if he didn't master it Tsunade wouldn't have given him her necklace. Forming and stabilizing the Rasengan means it's mastered whether that's with one hand or 3 hands it doesn't matter.

That sage mode conclusion is just speculation by you, Minato had enough chakra and mastery that he didn't have any physical changes. Unlike Jiraiya. This proves he had enough chakra to master it Minato just wasn't SKILLED enough to use it as efficiently as Naruto because Naruto's talent with sage mode outclasses his.

When Ashura reached his brothers level, he stopped being a failure. If Ashura didn't have just as much potential as Indra he never would of reached his level.

Who cares if you learn or master things by yourself or someone teaches you? These things don't decide your talent level. Sasuke's dad taught him and Itachi the fireball jutsu Itachi did it in his first try and Sasuke did it after a week, but ultimately it was touted the entire manga that by the end Sasuke would be the more talented of the two. Sasuke was a late bloomer compared to Itachi, but he ended up being more talented than him, just like Naruto is a late bloomer compared to Sasuke and Ashura compared to Indra. They are still geniuses even if they are late bloomers.

Learning on your own is obviously more impressive than learning with someones help.Sasuke barely had his Dad help to learn Fireball Jutsu.I explained here.




This is especially impressive considering how Kakashi said it normally takes years to learn one element.


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BenjerminGaye

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Your arguments are invalid because you don't seem to be providing any proof.
you provided the proof for me. The one that says learned is the correct one.
I use what is presented to me, hence the two translations.
if that were the case then you wouget pissy over not finding "learned" in the synonyms list.
And no, it's not just google. The simple fact that that original episode in Japanese also says the word "master" proves you wrong yet again.
manga holds more credibility than anime. Now you're just grasping at straws.
I already forgot how someone can be in so much denial or downplay Naruto but you surely reminded me of that quite fine.
denial of what? That mastery and learned don't mean the same thing? Nor are they same in Japanese Kanji?

What?
Let's go back to google:
learn:
Learn
学ぶ
Manabu

Learned:
Learned
学んだ
Mananda

Master:
Master
マスター
Masutā

Mastery
Mastery
熟達
Jukutatsu

What more do you want?
 

lndra

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In chapter one Naruto uses Mass Shadow Clone Jutsu which is an A-Rank Jutsu even tho he was NEVER able to do the E-Rank clone jutsu and not only that he mastered it in a couple hours. Don't downplay the absurdity of this. This is Naruto's raw unmatched talent on display here no on else even comes close to this feat. Sasuke's fireball is only a C-Rank technique by comparison.
Did you just cite the wiki? Lol
The only reason why Naruto could not peform the regular bushin technique, was because Kurama was messing with his chakra control. The only reason why Naruto can peform the shadow clone and the mass shadow clone jutsu is because of his/kurama's large reserves. Anyone can peform it, but not everyone has the resreves to use it.

Naruto mastered the rasengan before he learned the shadow clone training during the Tsunade arc if he didn't master it Tsunade wouldn't have given him her necklace. Forming and stabilizing the Rasengan means it's mastered whether that's with one hand or 3 hands it doesn't matter.
Mastering the technique means doing it with one hand, he did not fully master it. He "cheated" through shadow clones to fix his errors, but he could never do it alone until now

That sage mode conclusion is just speculation by you, Minato had enough chakra and mastery that he didn't have any physical changes. Unlike Jiraiya. This proves he had enough chakra to master it Minato just wasn't SKILLED enough to use it as efficiently as Naruto because Naruto's talent with sage mode outclasses his.
Not really, Minato was just bad at Sage Mode, but Jiraiya had a reason as to why he could not peform it. Minato wasn't skilled enough to peform an elemental Rasengan either, and Naruto surpassed him.


Doesn't mean he did not have to work hard to reach that level, and even then he still needs cooperation.
 
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