KCM Minato vs 7G Gai

[Haizaki]

1. Naruto's Shunshin doesn't, hasn't, and won't ever deflect a Bijuu Dama.
2. The answer is Gai. He is outright faster than Naruto is. Plain and simple.

Can't believe the dude said Shunshin Lmao.

 

[Bogard]

1. Naruto's Shunshin doesn't, hasn't, and won't ever deflect a Bijuu Dama.
2. The answer is Gai. He is outright faster than Naruto is. Plain and simple.

1. He deflected Bijudamas here

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2. Oh please. Show me one time where Gai showed a raw speed this fast

 

[Ghost in the Shell]

I really, really want this thread to devolve into another Gai vs Minato shitstorm.

 

[KidGamer65]

1. He deflected Bijudamas here

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2. Oh please. Show me one time where Gai showed a raw speed this fast

1. He hit them with his tails. Look a page later. All he did was use Flash Shunshin to reach that point, and then he smacked them away with his tails.

2. Pushing back a Juubi Jin is speed feat enough to put his speed above Naruto's. Same goes with the initial Shunshin Gai used to cross the gap between him and Madara. Naruto's best feats are moving faster than Ay and moving much faster than a Bijuu Dama.

 

[Haizaki]

I really, really want this thread to devolve into another Gai vs Minato shitstorm.

It won't...We've ended it already and Bogard ended up conceding slowly. You know the winner of a thread when the people who thought Gai loses initially changed their minds. Bogard once complained about "The Majority"

 

[Bogard]

1. He hit them with his tails. Look a page later. All he did was use Flash Shunshin to reach that point, and then he smacked them away with his tails.

2. Pushing back a Juubi Jin is speed feat enough to put his speed above Naruto's. Same goes with the initial Shunshin Gai used to cross the gap between him and Madara. Naruto's best feats are moving faster than Ay and moving much faster than a Bijuu Dama.

1. On the page after, he is facing Bijus. I don't see the relationship. The cloak wasn't even formed at that point, let alone a tail
2. Gai doesn't use shunshin. He pushed back Jubi Jin because of his striking speed and the distance wasn't even close to the one between Naruto and Gai/Kakashi when he performed that Bijudama deflecting shunshin feat

 

[KidGamer65]

1. On the page after, he is facing Bijus. I don't see the relationship. The cloak wasn't even formed at that point, let alone a tail
2. Gai doesn't use shunshin. He pushed back Jubi Jin because of his striking speed and the distance wasn't even close to the one between Naruto and Gai/Kakashi when he performed that Bijudama deflecting shunshin feat

1.

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2.

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Whether or not that was Shunshin or raw speed doesn't really matter to me, but the initial feat alone is enough to put him above Naruto. The rest isn't just his striking speed. It's his movement and striking speed. That's why he's able to stick to Madara instead of Madara being able to break away with little difficulty. If it were just striking speed, then we wouldn't see any movement besides Gai's hands and feet punching and kicking at Madara.

3. If Gai is fast enough to do that, then his burst speed is fast enough to cross any distance Naruto crosses and greater because that shows he is faster.

 

[Bogard]

1.

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2.

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Whether or not that was Shunshin or raw speed doesn't really matter to me, but the initial feat alone is enough to put him above Naruto. The rest isn't just his striking speed. It's his movement and striking speed. That's why he's able to stick to Madara instead of Madara being able to break away with little difficulty. If it were just striking speed, then we wouldn't see any movement besides Gai's hands and feet punching and kicking at Madara.

3. If Gai is fast enough to do that, then his burst speed is fast enough to cross any distance Naruto crosses and greater because that shows he is faster.

1- Okay you may have a point, but it's still unclear if the tails were actually used for the deflection or not. Regardless, it doesn't discredit the actual travelling speed
2- The fog aside, how do you explain this then?

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Madara showed no problem to follow night moth Gai.
3- Faster striking speed? Sure. But where is the raw speed on Naruto's level? Every time we've seen Gai, he was running and not actually teleporting from place to place like Naruto do in BM

 

[Bogard]

Too bad. I wanted to see your reply before outlogging. See you next time then

 

[KidGamer65]

1- Okay you may have a point, but it's still unclear if the tails were actually used for the deflection or not. Regardless, it doesn't discredit the actual travelling speed
2- The fog aside, how do you explain this then?

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Madara showed no problem to follow night moth Gai.
3- Faster striking speed? Sure. But where is the raw speed on Naruto's level? Every time we've seen Gai, he was running and not actually teleporting from place to place like Naruto do in BM

1. They definitely were, but ok.

2. He didn't follow Gai when he used Might Guy. He braced himself before, and he was blitzed with no reaction. While against 7G Gai, he was able to jump back, so he wasn't blitzed with no reaction.

3. Against Madara he "teleported" from his original position in the smoke cloud, to Madara's location. For the scuffle they had, his movement speed is a major part in why he was able to force Madara back like he did. If he can do that, then if he uses his burst speed he'd be able to cross a larger distance than Naruto. That feat proves he has faster movement AND striking speed. If his movement speed was slower than BM Naruto's Madara wouldn't be forced back like he was.

 

[KingHashirama]

Kingretard stop replying to me please. I'm actually begging you.

was replying to the guy who asked the question..


So you and kiddo won't spread your retarded logic to others

 

[Gold Lightning]

How is it ridiculous for a Jin? It's not...Gaara saying Gai's movement wasn't human was based on what he saw. Which was Gai keeping up with someone of that level. Using it's obviously his Taijutsu isn't a point when his Taijutsu wasn't singlehandedly pointed out.

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That's Lee moving towards Gaara and not attacking...Yet his movements was said to be not human by a young Gaara. " I can't protect myself" was because Lee was too fast as Gai made reference to it and so did others in the arena.

We have the same case when Ay uses Shunsin:

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Here:

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Here:

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Kimmamoro did say Lee's movements were unpredictable which is completely different case from being inhumane cuz of the way one moves...I've clearly shown with that Gaara's example how Lee was not attacking but moving to Gaara prompting him to say the movements weren't human.

That being said, Kimmi said this as well to sum up the fact that it wasn't just Taijutsu that was the case in terms of him saying he couldn't read Lee's overall movement.

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However, when it comes to Gai's case it's different..You're telling me Gaara judged his movement wasn;t human from 2 hits that got blocked? Look at the arrows. Look in between the hits. That was speed which is clear.

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I've already proved to you that it's not just Taijutsu...It's his actual movements. It's not human and we've seen Gaara fighting alongside speedsters and yet was that surprised. Even when we saw Gai surprisesd Madara with waw foot speed before he appeared.

Though you people would still argue....There's nothing to debate regarding Gai's movements anymore.

Slightly off topic, but funny how you mention movement to describe speed. I remember in a previous thread I made, I used a similar example to explain that this was Shunshin and not FTG, and got so much hate, flame and bash from a few:

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Considering the rock ninja described it as movement, it's fair to say it wasn't teleportation.

Anyway, back on topic.

"Movements" has also referred to the way in which someone moves/fights multiple different times throughout the manga. It's not just speed, just like kimmimaro mentions here:

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Nothing to do with movement speed here, it's the unpredictability as well as the speed in which he attacks.

Sasuke activates 3 tomoe and is able to avoid narutos attacks easier. naruto mentions how sasukes movements are different. Again, nothing to do with speed:

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Also, with regards to speed when Gai is concerned, it's taijutsu speed that is also referred to, and not just movements. The speed at which he throws a punch or swings a kick are the fastest. But you're acting like movement can only mean going from a to b. When movement is anything in motion:

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. Here, gai's taijutsu wasb't pointed out, it was just called fast. Why does taijutsu need to be pointed out in order for you to know if it is movement or not, and yes gaara can judge the speed of gais movements from just those 3 hits, if they were extremely fast hits. Also you're acting like it ended with those 2 hits. Gaara's statement came in a different panel, while gai was still going at it off panel, so how do you even know it stopped at 2 hits?

Gaara questioned if part 1 lees movements were human. So does that mean part 1 lee 4/5 gates > Ay. Because gaara didn't say anything about ay? By that logic, minato said nothing about Gais speed, which means he's faster.

You're the same guy who said Evening Elephant has nothing to do with movement right. But when it suits your argument, then you'll decide what is and isn't movement speed.

p.s. Surprising blinded madara when he can't see, shielding his eyes from debris, meaning madara reacted last minute. He was skipping backwards, yet you're telling me he was moving at 7 gates speed. Yeah I do find it ridiculous. Jin or not, he was literally skipping. Compare that to mindless juubitos shunshin, makes madara look like a snail here.

 

[Bogard]

1. They definitely were, but ok.

2. He didn't follow Gai when he used Might Guy. He braced himself before, and he was blitzed with no reaction. While against 7G Gai, he was able to jump back, so he wasn't blitzed with no reaction.

3. Against Madara he "teleported" from his original position in the smoke cloud, to Madara's location. For the scuffle they had, his movement speed is a major part in why he was able to force Madara back like he did. If he can do that, then if he uses his burst speed he'd be able to cross a larger distance than Naruto. That feat proves he has faster movement AND striking speed. If his movement speed was slower than BM Naruto's Madara wouldn't be forced back like he was.

1. Would ask about this again another day

2. And he was bracing himself when Gai was running at a speed distorting space. "Fast" = speed estimation. "He distorted space?" = Noticing the side effects of Gai's movements during his running speed. He didn't only mindly evaluated Gai's speed, but physically reacted

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It's just that considering Gai was distorting space, it deflected his staff, not allowing him to defend himself against the kick. And you can't create the excuse he wasn't going at full speed here considering he was running at a speed even distorting space, so faster than any running speed he could have ever produced before

3- There is a reason why without the fog while in a faster mode(night moth) and shorter distance, Madara could not only evaluate the speed but counter-act. I never said his movement speed was slower than BM Naruto's. It's his raw speed that is slower, the speed to travel from one place to another. Basically he can't blitz/cover distances as fast as Naruto's shunshin. Raw speed has no influence in close combat however. It's for that reason why despite BM Naruto's raw shunshin, Edo Madara was capable to deflect his attack in close range. Only movement, reaction and striking speed matters in close range combat

Okay i made the effort to reply to this one. If you ever reply, it will be only for a next time

 

[Haizaki]

Slightly off topic, but funny how you mention movement to describe speed. I remember in a previous thread I made, I used a similar example to explain that this was Shunshin and not FTG, and got so much hate, flame and bash from a few:

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Considering the rock ninja described it as movement, it's fair to say it wasn't teleportation.

That doesn't exactly prove it was Shunshin...Moving from point A to B was the case here. Not physical movements alone but movements as a whole. Not a good comparison and doesn't compare to anything.

Anyway, back on topic.

"Movements" has also referred to the way in which someone moves/fights multiple different times throughout the manga. It's not just speed, just like kimmimaro mentions here:

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Nothing to do with movement speed here, it's the unpredictability as well as the speed in which he attacks.

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Which contributed to his movements not being read like I already said.

Sasuke activates 3 tomoe and is able to avoid narutos attacks easier. naruto mentions how sasukes movements are different. Again, nothing to do with speed:

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That's because Sasuke reacted to him and he said his movements were different not inhumane which has been classified by the Manga and the fact that Gaara repeated that very line showing what Kishi was pointing out to us. Striking isn't going to be called movements alone especially when blocked.

Gaara referred to Gai's movements as inhumane because of his overall speed not because of 2 hits, that's clearly ridiculous...Same for Lee. You need proof that it was in refrence to his Taijutsu alone which you can't prove..Gai's foot speed surprised Madara as well.

Also, this isn't Taijutsu...Unless you can explain to me what was happening here.

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Once again, Gai movements were referenced and he was moving to make this hits. There's a big difference between there first hit and the second.

Also, with regards to speed when Gai is concerned, it's taijutsu speed that is also referred to, and not just movements. The speed at which he throws a punch or swings a kick are the fastest. But you're acting like movement can only mean going from a to b. When movement is anything in motion:

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. Here, gai's taijutsu wasb't pointed out, it was just called fast. Why does taijutsu need to be pointed out in order for you to know if it is movement or not, and yes gaara can judge the speed of gais movements from just those 3 hits, if they were extremely fast hits. Also you're acting like it ended with those 2 hits. Gaara's statement came in a different panel, while gai was still going at it off panel, so how do you even know it stopped at 2 hits?

Dude stop this downplaying

- The Kisame scan doesn't prove anything since movements weren't referred to but just him being fast. It's not only Taiujutsu because Gai made 3 movements asides kicking and punching Madara which I've shown. Address that and don't ignore it. There was a good interval between the attacks which you ignored like I showed.

- Madara is a sensor, why should the fog be an issue? Gaara's sand blocked his view from seeing Minato teleport yet he still smacked him.

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We might as well start downplaying too and talk about the fact that Minato was helped by this blocking Madara's vision which left him surprised affecting his focus and we see Minato teleported right after.

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Gai's case is apparently different even though Madara expects him and is surprised before Gai makes an appearance in the next page.

Gaara questioned if part 1 lees movements were human. So does that mean part 1 lee 4/5 gates > Ay. Because gaara didn't say anything about ay? By that logic, minato said nothing about Gais speed, which means he's faster.

What this means is something I'm still trying to figure out

- Gaara said Lee's movements weren't human....We've seen what Gaara means when he says that.

- Minato didn't need to say anything about Gai when Gaara already did. Gaara won't be surprised by those movements if he had seen them before.

- I've already shown you what Kishi means by "Inhumane Movements"..That Lee and Gaara scan cancels any notation of "It was only Taijutsu"

You're the same guy who said Evening Elephant has nothing to do with movement right. But when it suits your argument, then you'll decide what is and isn't movement speed.

I already know you're contradicting yourself big time by saying you once used the same idea to refer to Minato's speed in a different thread. You're only trying to force this feat to not be legit. My examples with Gaara's definition and what "Inhumane" movements in examples like this completely prove you wrong.

- Evening Elephant was never said in regards to movements but only "Striking" "Hitting power" Read the DB and look for scans and you won't find that anywhere so your example is a very bad one. The only thing you're using to back up the ridiculous notation is the fact that Rock Lee and Minato reacted to Gai's fastest speed which makes no sense when Mianto couldn't Hirasihin to a slower Juubito when he tried to strike him. Lee reacting to Gai? Gaara's sand getting to a position before Gai? Lee reacting to Gai mean 7G Gai can do the same. The logic makes 0 sense to be honest.

p.s. Surprising blinded madara when he can't see, shielding his eyes from debris, meaning madara reacted last minute. He was skipping backwards, yet you're telling me he was moving at 7 gates speed. Yeah I do find it ridiculous. Jin or not, he was literally skipping. Compare that to mindless juubitos shunshin, makes madara look like a snail here.

Damn Lol..Good debaters like yourself and Bogard look really bad when you try to downplay feats which isn't necessary. Madara was a sensor.


Did you even consider the fact that this panel

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Came before this panel

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Rinnegan can't be blocked by the Aura from what we know..Madara being surprised before Gai came means he saw or felt him coming. It's a feat and so was the movement in between those hits since Madara had no chance to hit Gai.


Skipping backwards is irrelevant...Don't even know where that came from but all I know is it's a legit feat from the very point Gai got there. You also need too explain why Gai had to move 3 times before he could hit Madara the 2nd time. There was no chance to attack Gai even with a staff because of Gai's movements.

 

[Haizaki]

LOL people need to learn the difference between striking and movement speed. Night moth's movement speed is the fastest speed Gai has..However, it's striking speed isn't as fast as the previous attacks Gai has shown. Terry Bogard, The funniest part of your argument is how you use Night Moth to prove your point but completely ignore the fact that same Chakra was bursting obstructing others in the same way

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This point about Madara attacking NM Gai while moving is clearly misunderstood...He attacked Gai when Gai tried to attack with NM(Strike with the kick). That was due to the fact that Gai's NM strike wasn't fast enough which means Madara beat him at that point when it came to attacking first..Not Gai's movement speed while in NM. You definitely got that wrong. I can easily prove you wrong since Madara opted to block rather than smack Gai in a much slower speed despite Gai being within strike range:

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Now unless you think that Gai can move faster than Yagai, then there's no point...Clearly it has to do with striking speed since Madara was completely surprised and couldn't strike like he did to Yagai despite this Gai being in striking range. NM wasn't executed fast enough like the punch of this EE which pushes Madara to the ground completely. It's completely understandable since Yagai is a drop kick anyways unlike a punch..EE's strike speed is faster which is why Gai wasn't touched or rather Madara couldn't strike back.

He thought within his head which is merely a matter of seconds so your point about him estimating Gai was fast doesn't hold...Ay saw Minato evade his fastest punch, thought to himself but Minato countered shortly after leaving him in the same exact position...What does this mean?

The mere fact that he could see Gai running at him with NM debunks your claim(Fog or whatever in the 7G) considering he was in a similar position with his hands covering his front to brace himself from what was coming.

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[TRE MERCER]

Minato wins.

Gai may be faster but Minato is far more versatile plus a 7th Gate assault won't be enough to end Minato. KM cloaks have shown to tank punches from Ei and barely be affected Gai punches are tanked easily. If he tries to do a Hirudora it won't put Minato down for the count seeing as it couldn't do the same to Kisame [Although im positive the water had something to do with that] he isn't getting out one on that calibur before Minato escapes or uses chakra arm to cover himself to lessen the blow.

Either way Gai loses.​