senju vs uchiha power up process

[A$AP Wap]

How the hell am I supposed to know who Madara's best friend was..? :|

I wouldn't be talking shit about handouts when the character you're backing was born with the most powerful ninjutsu in the ninja world.

his brother gave him the power to do that, lol
he just had to watch his friend die to get his first boost

uchihas do get handed power ups, stfu

 

[Styles]

who was madara's friend?
and i always knew hashirama wasn't born with wood style

How the hell am I supposed to know who Madara's best friend was..? :|

I wouldn't be talking shit about handouts when the character you're backing was born with the most powerful ninjutsu in the ninja world.

Madara's best friend was Hashirama.

 

[A$AP Wap]

Madara's best friend was Hashirama.

he had another best friend i think that's what he's talking about
how else did Madara get MS?

 

[Styles]

he had another best friend i think that's what he's talking about
how else did Madara get MS?

Probably got it by training I doubt he had 2 best friends or else he would have said he killed his other friend to get it. What Itachi said doesn't count either cause the manga showed it wrong. So no one knows I guess.

 

[Rogue Pit]

This is how each ninja progresses.

Uchiha: Unlocks the sharingan
Senju: Learns to control their huge amounts of chakra

Uchiha: Unlocks the mangekyo sharingan
Senju: Discovers kkg, or special technique(ftg) etc.

Uchiha: Gains eternal mangekyo sharingan
Senju: Learn sage mode

Thoughts?

As we learned rinnegan has nothing to do with uchiha or senju, you just need indra/ashura chakra combined. But if you want to include rinnegan than the opposite power up would be a biju/jinchuriki.

Thoughts?

I agree with the idea that there are levels to the skill. I also agree with the notion that uchiha and Senju were made as polar opposites to be equal in magnitude, simply stating that their potential are both great.
Small issue is that senju were known for techniques and having a mastery of many different types of jutsu. They called Senju clan of 1000 techniques. THe Uzumaki who were their distant cousins were known for their chakra. But that doesn't refute your information.

The only real thing I have an issue with is there is no particular order to the madness (except sharingan).
Looking at madara and hari, theoretically should be the same as looking at naruto and Sasuke.

Naruto | Sasuke
Shadow clone | sharingan
Rasengan | Chidori
ninetail cloak | cursed seal mark
Sage Mode | MS
KCM(Kyuubi Chakra Mode) |EMS
RSM(Rikudou Sage Mode) |Rinnegan

But this is the special case for the originators of the clans.
Looking at any other Uchiha/Senju comparison

The limit of the uchiha clan seems op after Sharingan because there arent many Mangekyou users.
There aren't many senjus either to poll data but using Tobirama, Tsunade, Jiraya and kakashi as Senju, and Itachi, Obito, Shisui, and Kagami as other uchihas...
We see that no uchiha makes it eternal except for *Indra* that we know of. we also only know of Jiraya and Minato(who manga doesn't state as senju) to use sage mode. Tobirama never brought up any instance of sage mode, Jiraya/minato/naruto were taught by the frogs.

We see there is obviously steps/training that are to be taken in order for one to become stronger. To label it a process I believe makes it seem sequenced.

Probably got it by training I doubt he had 2 best friends or else he would have said he killed his other friend to get it. What Itachi said doesn't count either cause the manga showed it wrong. So no one knows I guess.

It is rather confusing...

Itachi states Madara and Izuna trained together and got strong and became the head of their clan together. They both awaken the Mangekyou through killing their best friends. Madara used his eye too much, became blind.. and killed Izuna to awaken EMS.
To be honest, we don't know if itachi made that story up in order to further convince sasuke of his false mal intent.

The anime shows.. Madara first acquiring his Sharingan when he had to disown Hashirama as his friend as a kid.
Acquiring MS was never shown in the anime. In fact they imply that it was skipped like Vegeta did ss3 and went straight to EMS when izuna was killed by the wounds inflicted by Tobirama.
But that part was a filler.

 

[Styles]

I agree with the idea that there are levels to the skill. I also agree with the notion that uchiha and Senju were made as polar opposites to be equal in magnitude, simply stating that their potential are both great.
Small issue is that senju were known for techniques and having a mastery of many different types of jutsu. They called Senju clan of 1000 techniques. THe Uzumaki who were their distant cousins were known for their chakra. But that doesn't refute your information.

The only real thing I have an issue with is there is no particular order to the madness (except sharingan).
Looking at madara and hari, theoretically should be the same as looking at naruto and Sasuke.

Naruto | Sasuke
Shadow clone | sharingan
Rasengan | Chidori
ninetail cloak | cursed seal mark
Sage Mode | MS
KCM(Kyuubi Chakra Mode) |EMS
RSM(Rikudou Sage Mode) |Rinnegan

But this is the special case for the originators of the clans.
Looking at any other Uchiha/Senju comparison

The limit of the uchiha clan seems op after Sharingan because there arent many Mangekyou users.
There aren't many senjus either to poll data but using Tobirama, Tsunade, Jiraya and kakashi as Senju, and Itachi, Obito, Shisui, and Kagami as other uchihas...
We see that no uchiha makes it eternal except for *Indra* that we know of. we also only know of Jiraya and Minato(who manga doesn't state as senju) to use sage mode. Tobirama never brought up any instance of sage mode, Jiraya/minato/naruto were taught by the frogs.

We see there is obviously steps/training that are to be taken in order for one to become stronger. To label it a process I believe makes it seem sequenced.



It is rather confusing...

Itachi states Madara and Izuna trained together and got strong and became the head of their clan together. They both awaken the Mangekyou through killing their best friends. Madara used his eye too much, became blind.. and killed Izuna to awaken EMS.
To be honest, we don't know if itachi made that story up in order to further convince sasuke of his false mal intent.

The anime shows.. Madara first acquiring his Sharingan when he had to disown Hashirama as his friend as a kid.
Acquiring MS was never shown in the anime. In fact they imply that it was skipped like Vegeta did ss3 and went straight to EMS when izuna was killed by the wounds inflicted by Tobirama.
But that part was a filler.

Actually we do manga said Tobirama killed izuna and before he died he told Madara to take his eyes and protect the Uchiha. Madara didn't take them by force.
The manga never shown him awaken MS which is why I said he probably got it threw training/killing more Senju's. Or by fighting Hashirama again. Its not clear kinda like how shisui got MS when his close friend was itachi.

 

[Rikodou Mode]

The equivalent to a Rinnegan user is RSM. Without the bijuu they're both on the same level.

 

[Rikodou Mode]

Well not every Uchiha unlocks MS which mean EMS is just as rare. Also, Sage mode was never said to be a technique derived from the Senju clan but something only specific to Hashirama.

Sage Mode was originally from Hagoromo and Ashura. They developed it and humans learned how to use it with ninjutsu. Very few people can use Sage Mode the same way very few people can use the Sharingan on Kakashi's level.

 

[FemmeFatale]

What about Tsunade?
Was she a special case?

 

[Aznkidd]

He was never top tier like Hashi and Madara.

Wtf are you reading ?
Madara can be killed by tobi if they are both alive, pre-dna.

 

[Aznkidd]

What about Tsunade?
Was she a special case?

Pre-dna and alive madara, tsunade can fight a good fight with katsuya + acid. As long as she can get away from genjutsu which katsuya do that job. Katsuya can keeps acid madara to the death, unless madara summon kuybii.

 

[Rikodou Mode]

Pre-dna and alive madara, tsunade can fight a good fight with katsuya + acid. As long as she can get away from genjutsu which katsuya do that job. Katsuya can keeps acid madara to the death, unless madara summon kuybii.

Summons are weak against genjutsu unless they're bijuus

 

[Aznkidd]

Summons are weak against genjutsu unless they're bijuus

Any manga fact ?

 

[Rikodou Mode]

Kurama getting caught in it twice is enough proof

 

[Shino1584]

Don't you think a discussion about Senju and Uchiha should exclude any talk of madara,hashirama, naruto, and sasuke? Their abilities and associated progression paths are augmented by being transmigrants so they don't count. We don't even know the progression to MS exactly. Do you have to kill your closest friend or is it just an emotional state you have to reach similar to SSJ in DBZ? EMS is somewhat unclear too. If you just have to switch eyes to get EMS, why don't both parties do this and both get EMS? Its not like you are fusing eyes or something. Itachi could get Sasuke's eyes, and Sasake gets Itachi's. Why does one of the them have to be blind? In either case,comparisons should be made of tobirama/tsunade and itachi/shishi. The thing that makes it difficult is that we don't know much about standard clan members. Apart from hashirama and tobirama, how powerful was your typical senju clan member? What was the standard rate of Uchiha with sharigan? How did a standard senju match up against a normal sharigan user? Its all guesswork anyway. From the tone of the manga, it makes it seem like the senju were a little stronger.

 

[Styles]

Don't you think a discussion about Senju and Uchiha should exclude any talk of madara,hashirama, naruto, and sasuke? Their abilities and associated progression paths are augmented by being transmigrants so they don't count. We don't even know the progression to MS exactly. Do you have to kill your closest friend or is it just an emotional state you have to reach similar to SSJ in DBZ? EMS is somewhat unclear too. If you just have to switch eyes to get EMS, why don't both parties do this and both get EMS? Its not like you are fusing eyes or something. Itachi could get Sasuke's eyes, and Sasake gets Itachi's. Why does one of the them have to be blind? In either case,comparisons should be made of tobirama/tsunade and itachi/shishi. The thing that makes it difficult is that we don't know much about standard clan members. Apart from hashirama and tobirama, how powerful was your typical senju clan member? What was the standard rate of Uchiha with sharigan? How did a standard senju match up against a normal sharigan user? Its all guesswork anyway. From the tone of the manga, it makes it seem like the senju were a little stronger.

How is that possible when it seems both eyes fuse? Why else would it have both MS patterns of the two.

 

[Shino1584]

How is that possible when it seems both eyes fuse? Why else would it have both MS patterns of the two.

Where is it stated that both eyes fuse? I'm not saying that they don't, I just never remember seeing that anywhere. I always thought the reason the patterns combine is because there is residual chakra from the original owner that mixes with the new to form the new pattern.

 

[Styles]

Where is it stated that both eyes fuse? I'm not saying that they don't, I just never remember seeing that anywhere. I always thought the reason the patterns combine is because there is residual chakra from the original owner that mixes with the new to form the new pattern.

Those heavily applies so.

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4 Sharingan eyes = EMS.

2 sharingan eyes- only MS.

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[Shino1584]

Those heavily applies so.

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4 Sharingan eyes = EMS.

2 sharingan eyes- only MS.

You must be registered for see links

I'm still not completely convinced. Itachi kept using the term "spare" in regards to Sasuke's eyes so that would make me think replacement.